[AMA] Im a Luxury Car Broker and Financier - Ask Me Anything

LCollectingCorner on 06/06/2018 - 10:59
Last edited 25/02/2019 - 18:11 by 2 other users

Hey All,
Im a mostly-retired motor vehicle broker with extensive experience in brokering new cars, negotiating and structuring finance.

Im fortunate to have a diverse background from dealer sales, corporate sales, finance, product management, and I am happy to share my knowledge, advise on any deals (this is ozbargain after all!) as im passionate about cars and the industry as a whole.

Ask me anything you like.

im not associated with any brand or broker or store.

EDIT - thanks for the interest and your questions - hope the ozb community is finding it interest. Just a reminder to please check the thread first and see whether the question may have already been answered earlier

Introduce Yourself

closed Comments

      • djmm on 10/06/2018 - 15:54

        You must hate driving.

        • smuggler on 10/06/2018 - 20:01

          Yes. I live in Sydney. The turd of Australia

  • almonds65 on 09/06/2018 - 19:56

    Hi, I'm looking to buying the Golf 7.5 TSI 110 automatic. Happy with the base model although I won't mind the midrange Trendline or Comfortline models either.

    I'm heavily considering the 1.8% finance offer + guaranteed future value plan (Volkswagen Choice) and wanted your expert opinion on whether this is a good finance deal? It sounds too good to be true at the moment. As part of my work requirements, I do lots of long distance driving so I'm not sure if the Guaranteed Future Value plan would work out in my favour or not. Any advice?

    • Iamhereforthebargain on 10/06/2018 - 09:17

      I was thinking the same, can you please put your views on this one.

      • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 10:43

        HI guys
        with the 1.8% offer and guaranteed future value, yes it is a very good finance deal, there are not many fees with VW.
        this offer is basically being funded by VW so they effeictively fund the difference between the real cost of money and their offer.

        With guaranteed future value, just be careful if you do a lot of kms. have they given you the guaranteed percentage of RRP based on how many kms you are doing and how many years you are keeing the car for?

        • almonds65 on 10/06/2018 - 13:30

          Thanks for your reply. I'm probably going to be doing about 30,000/year for 2 years, then back to the usual 10-15,000/year after. Planning to go for a 4 year finance term. Unsure of how long I'd be keeping the car for at this stage. I was thinking, if my guaranteed value is lower -doesn't that mean it would be good for me if I'm planning to keep the car at the end of the finance term?

          Also, when negotiating for the car driveaway price, how much of a discount would you be expecting from VW? (I'm from Perth, WA).

        • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 14:40
          +2

          @almonds65: not much on the 1.8% as this is effectively part of the dealer discount already.if you are planning to keep the car at the end of the term you shouldnt use guaranteed future value, you would be better off with a normal lease/finance at 1.8%

  • HappyRabbit on 09/06/2018 - 21:03

    How many km's can a car be considered new vs demo?

    I've heard horror stories of "new cars" having done 200km

    • Jaff on 10/06/2018 - 02:51

      Any reason ?

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 08:20
      +2

      more than 100ks should not be new anymore, id be pushing for used pricing.

      this demo word in the industry sickens me. there is no such thing as a demo, they get driven by employees to from work, as well as customers. a demo is a used car by any other name.

      • Frozensage on 10/06/2018 - 09:20

        I often see min trade in xxxx for used and demo cars. How are they making money if someone were to trade in a 20 yo car that still drives but wouldn’t be worth more than afew hundred on the classifieds ?

        • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 10:16

          they often have manufacturer rebates to fund it, or effectively wont discount the new car at all to give you the minimum trade in amount

  • MeHz on 10/06/2018 - 07:40

    Hi OP,

    Do you work with motorcycle dealers too? Or is it strictly cars only?

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 08:19
      +1

      unfortunately dont have experience in the motorcycle game - runs a little different to cars from what im aware too as there are only a few dealers/importers of each brand around.

  • Piranha2004 on 10/06/2018 - 09:03

    Do you do any skodas? Was looking at the kodiaq sportline and I've heard the dealers are stingy due to high demand. What would be the discount you could get on a 59k kodiaq?

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 10:26

      i think a 4-5k saving is achievable but you are right - dealers may not let them go at that price regularly while there is little stock around as they cant easily replace the stock

  • Frozensage on 10/06/2018 - 09:18

    negotiation wise, r u more likely to get the deal you want by going in with game face and telling them straight up your price point and model with xyz accessories or pretending to be friendly do some small talk and letting them throw all the sale pitch at you? Or does it make no difference?

    Car dealers have monthly delivery targets, are there different tiers of targets they aim to meet in order to get larger manufacturer bonuses? And is that why some are more prepared to sell at cheaper than other dealers because they are at a higher tier?

    Bought a Mazda 3 Maxx Sport hatch auto with a couple of accessories for 23.6k DA. Would u say this is a good buy? And is $2k discount on rrp a good place to aim for for mazda?

    Thanks for answering.

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 10:28

      10% discount is pretty good on a mazda 3 - you can get up to 15% in the right circumstances
      they often dont sell them much lower than that

      as an individual buyer i think you need to be freindly and respectful at all times but try and get down to business quickly, rather than go through the whole sales process. the investigation on what car to buy should be decoupled from the actual process when you ar ready to buy the car.

  • scheps on 10/06/2018 - 09:21

    do ferrari or astin martin discount? if Shi what's the expected range and how do you go about getting that? i suspect not a broker type of car

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 10:30
      +1

      very much broker type cars - there are a lot of rich dudes that dont want to run around talking to dealers about whether they will get an allocation from the factory or not, and what prrice.

      exotic cars in australia are more about whether that person can actually get one rather than price, and there is no answer to your question as it depends on the model within the brand as to whether they discount.

      the general answer is "most of time a little, sometimes not at all if you can even get one"

      • B-prince on 10/06/2018 - 12:11

        As a broker have you been successful in getting the more limited production exotics such as GT3 RS or 458 Speciale? Or are these cars that are more just sold to individuals rather than brokers?

        • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 14:43

          well with cars like these i normally am buying on behalf of the prospective owner who is there with me during negotiations, so yes i have been successful doing this. sometimes its more about actually getting one in the production queue than getting major discounts.

        • B-prince on 10/06/2018 - 17:10

          @altinvestor: Amazing that you have access to these cars as a broker as they are so difficult to get. Thank you for the fantastic thread

        • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 18:09

          @B-prince: to clarify I don't have access I am buying on behalf of the prospective owner. When you have been around ceetain dealerships long enough they know what to expect of you..

      • scheps on 10/06/2018 - 18:48

        thanks mate. what about factory order. i was thinking more factory order for those as customisation is important.

        i recall calling a few brokers for prosche and non would do it. none.

        • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 20:53

          Coz they know they can't save you anything… As I said for cars like this I more consult for the buyer than anything else and can influence allocations more than price. Porsche are always tough though.. Supply and demand

  • Buyme on 10/06/2018 - 11:08

    Awesome thread! Thank you! For me, and the father.

    200series land cruiser VX
    Kia sorento GT Line Diesel

    Thanks in advance

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 14:46
      +1

      roughly 55-58k on the sorrento, not sure about the land cruiser would need to have a look, i would say 10-12% based on sahara discounts but that is a very rough estimate

  • TimeWaster on 10/06/2018 - 13:43

    Is it worthwhile brokering more bespoke cars like McLaren, Rolls Royce, Pagani, etc.? I know the ordering process is much more personalised and lengthy than other luxury offerings, so is there any considerable margin of discount/benefit that could be obtained in this area or is it better to just go to the dealership themselves?

    Also, thank you for the AMA, this has been a fantastic read!

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 14:42
      +2

      these are a very different proposition - dont do many but when i work on these its normally with the owner who want me to attend all the meetings with the dealer and advise them through the purchase, as its many different meetings etc. yes some money can always be saved but its also about them not getting taken advantage of more than often… so really its more consulting than anything else in this space.

  • yellowfever on 10/06/2018 - 16:24

    hi there
    Would be keen to know what driveaway pricing would be possible for below car in Victoria
    2018 WRX STI (3 models)
    - STI
    - STI Premium
    - STI Spec R
    Thanks!

  • serrzy on 10/06/2018 - 18:05

    Thanks for the thread!

    How much for the most basic model BMW 1 series (1.18i), no options.

    Also, do you do broking for Tesla cars, and can you get any discounts of RRP?

    Cheers

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 18:11

      Never sold one but I wouldn't expect much off maybe 5 percent. Tesla ys on model s but nothing else

  • bvdbvd on 10/06/2018 - 18:25

    Its anazing OP. Thanks for your sharing. I am waiting for Mercedes G 350d new model as I know It wont be here until 2019. I am wondering that how many % discount for G class as very small number G class sold in Australia. Last year, I helped my friend get Audi Q5 launch edition for 92k, is it good deal?

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 18:32

      you can still achieve discounts on the G class but it depends on what stock is available when you are looking. 10% is definately possible.

      what engine in the Q5?

      • bvdbvd on 10/06/2018 - 19:24

        Its 2.0 TDI.

        • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 19:30

          Depends on options etc but that does seem high, although with Launch editions they may not have been discounting heavily due to demand

  • ML4M on 10/06/2018 - 18:44

    Do you listen to AutoExpert and if so how close to the mark are his videos?

    Wont you miss out the fun when Exotic cars get the ok to be imported into Australia?

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 19:32
      +2

      Some of his content is factual but is very sensationslised and generalistic in nature. Calling entire brands eg mercedes pieces of crap is not factual journalism..

  • foolsgold on 10/06/2018 - 20:15

    I have a client who recently bought a new Porche Macan Diesel, he claims he paid $80k, is this an achievable price? Or was he trying to down play it?

    • CollectingCorner on 10/06/2018 - 20:19

      new or demo? seems well under the odds. new model around the corner though

  • Jayjay93 on 10/06/2018 - 23:11

    Hi OP,

    Looking to buy a Mazda CX-5 MAXX AWD, RRP is approx 37k.

    Have you done any cx-5 ? Is 15% discount something achievable ? or would be less like 10%?

    Also not really in a rush, is it easier to get discount when new model is about to get released ? Heard that model 2019 might come in late 2018.

    Cheers !

    • CollectingCorner on 11/06/2018 - 11:12

      Hi there,
      between 10-15% is achievable, yes it is easier to get a discount when the newer model is released. the key is to buy between when the new model is announced but not released, as dealer incentives start to kick in then on those cars tro move stock.

      you can wait for the new model to come out but cars tend to dry up and you may not get the model and/or colour you were hoping for.

  • hullas on 11/06/2018 - 01:09

    Hi, I am looking to buy new MB GLA250 4 matic with Harman kardon and command package.

    How much should I look to pay?

    Thanks

  • jinroh on 11/06/2018 - 01:32

    Hi, thanks for this great AMA.

    My goal is to buy the X3 M40i with sunroof, metallic paint, 3 or 5 years BSI for under $100k driveaway (eg. including your service fee) in VIC. Most probably custom build due to exterior/interior combo I'm after.

    I'm self-emp and no access to corporate deal.

    Given the M40i is only starting to come this month, is this possible to achieve now or should I wait longer?

    Also, when you mention 15% off RRP, is this off the Redbook driveaway price (after selecting all options and state).

    TIA.

    • [Deactivated] on 11/06/2018 - 01:35

      Why on earth would you want an X3?

      • jinroh on 11/06/2018 - 01:38

        Uhm, the same reason why you put that question? (eg. Everyone has different taste)

        • [Deactivated] on 11/06/2018 - 01:55

          or lack of? The X5 is a much better car for only a very modest increase in price.

        • jinroh on 11/06/2018 - 02:30

          @Burnertoasty:
          1. Do they put the B58 engine in the current X5?
          2. Does an X5 has the same weight & dimension as an X3 for the same driving dynamics?
          3. I assume you do know the current X3 (G01) is on a new platform with latest tech (active cruise control, 3D view, etc) while the current X5 (F15) is almost a 5 years old platform now and soon to be a run out model.

          Looking at my point 2 above, you might be thinking "LOL this guy looks for an SUV and talks about driving dynamics, etc". Been there done that, I used to chuckle seeing ppl bought Accords, Camrys for the same money of a 2 years old STI/Evo. But TBF I didn't belittle them behind a keyboard on a public forum though.

          At least for me a wife and a kid later, I've grown up to realise that car is a very personal choice for everyone.

        • [Deactivated] on 11/06/2018 - 03:34

          @jinroh: I did think "LOL this guy looks for an SUV and talks about driving dynamics, etc". So will everyone else. You want dynamics on an SUV, get a Macan. You want speed get an GLA45.

      • stupot3003 on 11/06/2018 - 16:59
        +1

        The x3 m40i is a pretty awesome all-rounder by all accounts…does family duties plus goes OK. Reviews are glowing

    • CollectingCorner on 11/06/2018 - 11:10

      it all depends on the demand for them as there is very little stock so far in the country. if all cars are order cars then discounting will be limited.

      for what you are after, you are probably looking at a 120k rrp (victoria) with BSI included (if you dont work for a corporate as you get it for free with corporate). AS you want to do a custom colour combo, that will be a factory order which limits negotiating power to an extent.

      Honestly i cant see 100k happening - i think you will need to lift your budget a little to get into one anytime soon. 105-110k is achievable, 105-107k would be a great price for that car IMO.

      yes when i quote percentage off that is off the Driveway price generally.

      • jinroh on 11/06/2018 - 13:46

        Great. Thanks again for the info.

        PM sent.

  • br3tt0 on 11/06/2018 - 14:06

    Hi OP, thank you for your knowledge. It has been interesting to read.

    With your services if people are not 'set' on a car, do you suggest they approach dealerships on the presumption that they are just browsing? - in order to test drive and check cars before making a decision, in which case they contact you to 'seal the deal?'.

    Do you have much experience with HSV?
    Have you found that Holden have been very negotiable with pricing to phase out old stock (VF etc?)

    I also saw you mentioned an VW Allterain Tiguan before. Do you mind giving me an estimate on what this would be achievable for though? I don't need a 7 seater
    162 TSI Tiguan with R-Line pack, sunroof and driver assit.
    MRDP is $62,676 (broken up at 48,990 MRRP and 8,000 of options).

    Thanks again.

    • CollectingCorner on 11/06/2018 - 17:34

      yes, i suggest people go and work out what is is they want to buy - that is so subjective and my assistance there is really my opinion. I can help once i know what it is you want to buy with what options, effectively facilitate the transaction at the right price.

      yes have some experience with HSV - there were excellent deals to be had late 2016 but as soon as the 2017 cars were released it was almost impossible to get a discount, now there is some movement on remaining cars in stock across dealers but there is not much left.

      Holden will bend over backwards to sell you a car at the moment.

      with the allterain - its hard to say as it will depend on how initial sales and stock levels are - once its out long enough 10-15% should be achievable as a general rule of thumb - i know thats a big range but even the same car can vary that much month to month.

  • ChrisLee14u on 11/06/2018 - 14:33
    +1

    Hi OP,

    Thanks for a great AMA, and also for actually answering people's questions.

    I'll soon be in the market for a medium sized crossover. Been thinking of the following:

    1. BMW X3 G01 30d: M-Sport package, comfort package, metallic paint, wireless charger, and acoustic glass

    2. Audi SQ5: Technik Package

    Can you quote achievable discounts on RRP or prices you have achieved recently on these cars?

    • CollectingCorner on 11/06/2018 - 17:35
      +1

      low to mid 80s for the X3. more like mid 80s actually with those options.

      audi sq5 im not sure i would need to actually work on it to find out

  • ymmf on 11/06/2018 - 15:07

    Do you think, in general, people are over-fetching for their ride(s)? I come from the very conservative mindset that one should not borrow to purchase a depreciating asset (which is probably wrong).

    • CollectingCorner on 11/06/2018 - 17:37
      +1

      yes look some people do overstretch to buy cars they cant afford but this is a minority of people not the majority. I dont disagree with your mindset if you dont have anything else going on, but if you run your own business, need money for stock, do significant kms, have other major appreciating investmetns, sometimes its can be better for those people to finance so to free up that capital for appreiacting investments like houses, stock, etc.

      also the tax benefits to lease through a business are also significant which is why you see many company owners leasing rather than buying.

      if you are an individual that is on PAYG, dont have plans for investments, want to keep the car for a long time, then i agree, pay cash - the cheapest form of ownership

  • stygian on 11/06/2018 - 17:03

    Hi altinvestor, looking into the Skoda Octavia RS169. Fully kitted with all options excluding sunroof. Demo model, test drove it Saturday. Nice ride, approx 60km on the clock. Build 2017 MY18.

    Ticketed price $52,999. Been discussing, dealer constantly quoted "low to mid 40ks", as EOFY discounts etc apply. Current offer $45,500.
    Edit; how much more would you genuinely think in it for them to discount?
    Thoughts, please?

    • CollectingCorner on 11/06/2018 - 17:39
      +2

      if its a demo its very difficult to know but considering new ones have been done at close to your current offer (well not close, but within 2-3k) i think you have a 2-3k left in it.

      • stygian on 12/06/2018 - 12:53

        Thanks for your thoughts :) Will see how we go!

  • generalbaz on 11/06/2018 - 22:50

    Hi OP,

    Thoughts on a ballpark price to aim for with a Volvo XC60 Inscription with massage/heated seats, audio upgrade, air suspension but no sunroof?

    Thanks.

    • CollectingCorner on 12/06/2018 - 13:13

      mid 70s for T5 as an approximation - might be good to have some flexibility in your options or you may need to place an order for a volvo build which might make the discounting less significant.

  • sagas0007 on 11/06/2018 - 23:29

    What is your view on mercedes cla250. Though not officially anounced , one can expect a new model later next year. What percentage discount can be acheived ?

    Dealer has quoted me around 67k for a black metallic with 19 inch wheels ( RRP - 75000)

    • rave75 on 12/06/2018 - 11:15

      better wait for the new model since it has new MBUX info system. Generally aim for 15% on German cars. The price seems expensive though, does it have the factory packages (command, vision, AMG, seat comfort, driving assistance)?

      • CollectingCorner on 12/06/2018 - 13:02

        agree with this - probably another 2k in that car listed above as a fair price.

  • zrmx on 12/06/2018 - 00:12
    +1

    Hello OP,

    I don't have any questions for now (and not really in the market for buying, although eventually getting a PHEV has always been on my mind).

    Just want to thank you for an informative and fun read!

    Hope you had a safe and good long weekend, and have a good week =)

    Cheers.

  • burgermaniac on 12/06/2018 - 09:18

    Hi Op,
    What do you say a good first car is for someone who is 17?
    Been looking at the VW Polo/Gold or the Honda Jazz. Leaning towards the Polo/Golf due to the entertainment system. What do you think the best price you could do for the Automatic cheap version excluding colour options.

    You certainly have an interesting career. We appreciate the time spent taken on the matter.

    • rave75 on 12/06/2018 - 11:22

      if you are buying uses on VW, better be careful, they had problem with the dry clutch ones. IF possible get the wet clutch. Not to mention there are certain things that you shouldn't do when driving dual clutch to avoid premature wear on the clutch plate (for example creeping at traffic light). Also VW costs more to service compared to a Jazz.

      Current Jazz has touch screen + apple car play/android auto. Aren't they comparable with Polo/Golf?

      • CollectingCorner on 12/06/2018 - 13:05
        +1

        i like the Jazz for a 1st reliable car over the VW but again very subjective, buy what you like and balance the following:
        - desirability
        - cost
        - features
        - comfort
        - performance

        based on what you feel is most important. pick 3 and narrow down the cars against those 3 important things to you.

  • wanj on 12/06/2018 - 09:38

    When's the best time to buy a used BMW ? Is it the last week of the month, or a particular month of the year?

    • CollectingCorner on 12/06/2018 - 10:15

      the best time to buy any car is anytime in my opinion, promotions and incentives are just marketing activities to drive foot traffic into the dealerships.
      same applies for BMW

  • Gotchas on 12/06/2018 - 09:48

    I know depends on the car but which brands generally offer the biggest discounts?

    • rave75 on 12/06/2018 - 11:22

      Luxury ones tend to have more. Personal experience is Audi A4 with 20% off RRP

      • CollectingCorner on 12/06/2018 - 12:22

        luxury mass produced cars often have the largest average discounts - think Audi, BMW etc

  • sheepdog on 12/06/2018 - 10:45

    Any experience with Abarth 124 or MX5?

  • NightVision on 12/06/2018 - 11:49

    Would you recommend Graphite black color for a lexus RX 300 or Onyx color? And why.

  • causeimbatman on 12/06/2018 - 11:55

    Not a luxury car but I’m helping my elderly parents in the negotiation for a Suzuki Swift GL Navigator (RRP $17,990).

    What should I aim for?
    The only feature they need is an auto transmission.

  • v2 on 12/06/2018 - 12:26

    Hi OP, thanks for this thread - great read over the weekend! i'm in for a luxury 7 seater next year and have narrowed down to XC90 Inscription diesel and Audi Q7. Which one would you recommend between the two and what would be the best price?

    • CollectingCorner on 12/06/2018 - 13:03

      low 100s to 105 is possible on the XC90 depending on model/options, same for the q7.

      both are good cars, i dont like recommending cars - its a very subjective thing person to person.

  • mini2 on 12/06/2018 - 16:58

    Hi OP, if I've already got access to corp program for the usual German 3's, is it still beneficial to engage the broker to negotiate or there's not much left in the cake? On the other hand, can a broker negotiate in addition to the usual corp program benefits knowing reduced delivery fee is usually a credit from head office back to the dealer?

    • CollectingCorner on 12/06/2018 - 18:56

      yes, the corp program really only gives you fixed dealer delivery and free servicing, this is applied by the manufacturers head office directly, apart from the dealer discount which is marginal reduction (maybe 1k?) they havent discounted anything.

      i can still save you considerable coin.

  • blehgg on 12/06/2018 - 18:19

    Do you broker many Telsa Model S P100Ds?

    What's the best you've seem them done for?

  • donedeed on 12/06/2018 - 19:17

    From your experience, what percentage of cars with a value of >150k cars are financed?
    And of those that do finance their >150k cars, do most put down a small deposit or a substantial deposit?
    Thank you for this insightful AMA.

    • CollectingCorner on 13/06/2018 - 08:18

      About 50 to 60 percent. From those that are financing, about 50 percent put the equity from thier previous car in as deposit or place a sizable cash ddspoist, and the other 50 percent finance the lot often with high balloons

      • donedeed on 13/06/2018 - 09:59

        Would you say these people who are financing is because of business tax purpose?
        Would you say that it's just better to pay cash for them or finance under their company name?
        Thanks for your reply!

        • CollectingCorner on 13/06/2018 - 23:09

          some finance due to other investments they want to preserve capital for, other for tax purposes and buying through businesses.
          if buying in a business i would generally finance or partially finance as they probably need capital to run their business, but there is no right answer, it all depends on the individuals circumstances.

  • JollyJonny on 12/06/2018 - 20:32

    I am thinking of buying 2018 Mercedes c-200 with metallic paint and the vision, amg, Command, and seat comfort packages. What’s a good price for this? Thank you

  • ccrap on 12/06/2018 - 21:08

    Hi there. We're buying 3 GLCs - a 250, amg43 and amg63. 2 family and 1 friend. All NSW. Options aside, can you let me know what price you could negotiate those for on base spec so I can compare price given by mate of a mate who works at a Merc dealership. We are all merc corporate customers by the way at highest level - law society and AMA - so will get max corp benefits. No finance straight cash. Thanks

    • CollectingCorner on 13/06/2018 - 08:16

      Hi while id like to help I'd have to go and do some work on a purchase like this to get you anything competitive.

  • djmm on 12/06/2018 - 21:20

    What is your take on people buying poverty pack cars ie. 118i 318i cla200

    • CollectingCorner on 13/06/2018 - 08:14

      My view is that what people buy is up to them. Everyone values different things in life.

  • knowskillz on 12/06/2018 - 21:43

    Looking for a Mercedes c200 or c250 class coupe what kind of discounts can I get?

  • Kustard King on 12/06/2018 - 23:40
    -1

    Do you prefer lasagne or burgers?

  • accessdenied on 13/06/2018 - 01:38

    What is the best time to buy a car to get the maximum discount? EOFY or EOY runout or any other month?

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join