This is not going to go down well with OzBargainers?
https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/amazon-to-block…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-31/amazon-to-block-us-sit…
Sign the Petition to SCRAP the GST on online goods sold online costing less than $1000
So you can't shop at Amazon us, you won't shop at hardly normal, where will you go? [Austin.powers.look]
Harvey Norman has always been more expensive unless there's some extreme discount. The fool has just guaranteed people won't even go to his stores anymore to find out. Thus they'll buy at JB, etc. (Time to buy JB HiFi shares.)
I doubt it. Most people in this country just bend over and take it, that's why we always get fuсked. 99% of Harvey Norman shoppers will continue to buy there.
@idonotknowwhy: Good point. Never seen such a placid population before. Oh well, I will pay the extra $400 because I support Aussie stores.
@RocketSwitch: Is your Aussie boss giving you a raise for this? Last time I checked my aussie landlord is not decreasing my rent, no major aussie business is subsidising me their products for a smaller profit to their shareholders and nor are aussie bankers paying proper taxes from the mining and property booms. They won't come to rescue you when you're going to get bankrupt.
Harvey is no fool. Fool be you to think so
There's a whole world to shop at.
Are you reading properly? That world is shrinking because of our fücking stupid government.
They have themselves to blame. Been ripping us off for decades. See what the movie piracy did for Australia? NOW we have affordable streaming services.
Get with it. Understand the problem instead of going on your high horse.
No one is arguing supporting the Aussie stores. It's the ones that take the piss off hard working Australians.
The only thing you support by buying from HN is the ability for Gerry to purchase another ivory backscratcher.
It will be too hard to collect the tax and send it where it needs to go. Prices will increase by a lot more than the 10% (to cover the administration burden) or we will be blocked completely from buying things. People aren't concerned about a 10% price rise.
just like they would if they bought them in Australia
A lot of the things I buy aren't available in Australia, which is why I'm buying from overseas in the first place.
Should I ask Gerry Harvey to import it so I can pay twice the price for it, just so everyone can have warm fuzzy feelings about "buy local!" & "support Aussie businesses!"?
It's a tariff.
Tariffs make sense (kinda maybe) when you are trying to protect local production.
Gerry Harvey didn't give a crap about supporting local whitegood manufacturers when he found he could get fridges cheap from China, but now that we can do it ourselves: "Oh no, that's wrong. Buy Australian!". Arsewipe needs a few more kicks in the head from his horses.
Yep, this is Lib protectionism- apparently the market should operate freely, except when it disadvantages businesses. Makes me think of the GFC and all of that corporate bailout style welfare we saw happening- do Gerry and Lew believe their failing businesses need handouts and subsidies as well?
Yep, this is Lib protectionism
Well, to be fair trade unions tend to be pro-tariff when it suits them.
I've no problem buying Australian, provided you make it here. If you're just a middleman shuffling boxes you can sod off.
@D C: This was part of my thinking- when people think of protectionism they often think of the history of tariff protections that the labour movement campaigned on, but this is actually a strategy from the Liberal Party playbook too (the objects of their protectionism just vary).
In this case the winner is Gerry Harvey, who I would argue doesn't create much of value (the exception I see is employment for his staff which has both social and economic value). Otherwise he's just another GDP pump, inflating the perceived value of goods "produced" in this country, but sending the actual production offshore.
I'm struggling to understand how charging the same amount of GST on foreign imports as domestic sales is distorting the market or protectionism?
distorting the market or protectionism
If you apply a tariff to an imported good in order to make the domestic goods more competitive (price-wise), that's protectionism.
Gerry's stuff is too expensive, so we buy from overseas. Artificially increasing the cost of the imported goods makes Harvey Norman more competitive, that is the tariff protects Gerry's shops.
A traditional tariff is to protect manufacturing, make iPhones expensive so we buy the Aussie-made one. Of course we don't make phones, so applying a tariff like that is bollocks.
Free-market advocates will say tariffs are bad because if local producers can't make something cheap enough they should give up and do something else. This helps the consumer & the economy because the money they save buying the cheap import can be spent on other goods.
Many of us are probably grudgingly happy to pay the GST, the bigger issue is getting having imports cut off completely.
(And many of us remember when the GST was introduced replacing the higher sales taxes, prices were supposed to go down. Like hell they did.)
Here is the 2018 Pershing Challenge at Columbia business school where MBA students are presenting short opportunities and the investment thesis behind it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UCbYj8xoek
Harvey Norman analysis starts at 48.45
Eat a d$#k Gerry
wonderful
lol
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately one of the hypotheses underlying their analysis is that Amazon will undercut HN on price. Looking at this news, Gerry seems to have dealt with that one.
Not unless Amazon AU comes into play. It will be interesting to see if Amazon puts some serious flex into it, widens its inventory and starts pricing to destroy the HN's of Australia. Amazon AU is small enough for Bezos to run at a loss for decades.
Not saying this will necessarily happen though.
@Icecold5000:
I think you might be right. HNs whinging is just nonsensical though. Amazon were never a competitor for HN. Amazon US is definitely a competitor for the US equivalent of HN, and conversely, when Amazon au grows more, it WILL be a direct competitor for HN, so inadvertently this fool has really hastened his own doom by probably speeding up the growth of Amazon Australia. Eat a bag of dxxxs, Harvey.
@Mobe1969: Considering Amazon seem decided not to compete in Australia, I doubt it.
My guess is that Amazon want to have a presence here (esp. to sell Amazon product - echo, etc) but not really willing to compete with the other majors. Amazon strategy is to offer everything to 'prime' customers, I see this just as an extension of that.
If they drop their prices and start competing aggressively I would be happy to admit I'm wrong - but they have not done that.
@TheMostHated: at the end of the video during the Q and A they point out that Amazon AU has really dropped their prices in the last 3 months. So maybe they will become a serious competitor
Nice find!
You seem to be forgetting that the purpose of GST is to raise funds to spend on public services…
Don't get me wrong, I avoid any tax I can, but the people ranting about this are beyond ridiculous. It's not part of some evil plot, it's an attempt by the government to protect their GST income and create a level playing field. Amazon already charge import duties - it would be incredibly easy for them to charge GST on AU orders.
Yes, I agree spending on public services is supposed to be what taxes are for, however this government is more likely to cut that funding so that it can help out the already well off at the detriment to everyone else.
What would have made more sense to get more funding for public services would be to stop lowering the rates for higher income earners and to stop letting all the corporations dodge taxes. Of course this wouldn't go down well with the politician's "friends" so it will never actually happen.
Oh you forgot "This is Gerry Harvey speaking" at the end of the post.
It's not so much the TAX - it's the fact thousands of items won't be available to us now, because the government decided to force tax collection onto other countries, who should not be responsible for it. Government has collected customs fees for years upon the item arriving, didn't make international companies collect it, but now foist responsibility for a few-cents-on-the-dollar tax on them.
Harvey Norman: Collect tax, government.
Government: Nah, cost more than we make.
Harvey Norman: Make it a cost for overseas companies - force them to collect it.
Government: Brilliant!
Harvey Norman: What the!? Why did my sales go DOWN?
His sales wont go down though. His intention is to make it harder for the average person, no the ozB expert (who will figure a way around it).
Its like the film industry shutting down major sites - they know they cannot eliminate piracy, they just want to make it harder in markets where they make high profits.
I am with you, comrade, despite the flood of neg votes.
Amazon collects GST/VAT and Sales Taxes for all sorts of governments at the point of sale in the USA, Canada and the EU. Doing so here would be trivial.
Their real objection is that paying tax sux, which we all know is true, but we need to do it to get the revenue.
Right now, Coles and Woolies can be outcompeted by a shop selling less than $75,000p.a. or turnover who isn't required to pay GST. When is the last time you bought your groceries at such a place?
Similarly, Joe Cho in a bedroom in Mon Kok will still be able to shift HDMI cables for a dollar each, but Gearbest and Zapals will have to collect GST too. It may take a little time for them to do so, I suspect there aren't adequate measures in place to block their parcels yet, but I am sure that will come - the government is full of Peter Dutton types who love to enforce rules.
Also, right now, I can go into Harvey Norman and pay $25 for that same $1 HDMI cable. The GST isn't an issue either way, despite Gerry Harvey's bleating. The local stores have the advantage of immediacy.
More concerning, and what will really cause a meltdown on this site, will be the next International Postal Union meeting when it is extremely likely China will not be able to deliver small letters/items for under $1 in the regular mail anymore. But the subsidised postal delivery paid for by AusPost (i.e. us taxpayers) has been nice.
The emerging nation status for china, allowing super cheap shipping. Then people fuming why AU post is not delivering them as fast as they should. I can see that AU post collect 3-4 packages from china, before they deliver them to me, or they are big packages and use space. Am I angry? No. They have to save costs. Would I pay AU post $50 a year to deliver my parcel straight away? Yes.
one of the problems is that our dumbass government is not making allowance for tax collected on the sale elsewhere. So if you pay sales tax because your item was sold from a country that collected the tax at the point of sale, you will still be paying GST on the whole purchase amount as well.
Missing the point. Government CAN'T monitor this policy. Making it a shit for brains move, hurting consumers.
They can. Every package gets processed, GST calculated, and collected on pickup at post, and yes, another $20 customs handling fee for each item.
I think the increase is fair, and I think Amazon is being deceptive with the claims that they make regarding the cost burden on them to collect it; they already deal with 50+ sales tax laws across the US states, they managed to charge me duty to be paid to ship to Mexico once too. The additional effort is very marginal, they're just playing games. The blame should fall on them not on the government (who I'm hardly a fan of).
That said, this 10% is not going to save Harvey Norman - the price gap is vastly more than that and people will still choose based on price.
I'm with you 100%. Amazon can easily collect it, so they are flat out lying about it. But why they are lying, other than to be petulant, I've no idea. If they did collect it, they'd be able to earn interest on it until their quarterly of half yearly transfer to ato.
you guys seem to be as clueless as the treasurer, so maybe have a look here for a non exhaustive list of issues that must be dealt with https://www.taxathand.com/article/7731/Australia/2017/GST-on…
I can think of a number of other issues, first of all currency fluctations. e.g. Amazon collects GST with AUD/USD exchange rate at 0.75, at the end of the collection period the exchange rate is 0.80. any idea what kind of headache that alone would be? not to mention refunds in a foreign currency, etc…
so yeah, that's why they operate different "branches" in different countries, and why it's probably best for them to block AU customers on their US site.
Why should we, as a populace, enable this government to collect more tax revenue, when they haven't even show the ability to properly manage what they collect now?
Is that Mandy Moore pulling her hair?
Well you won't get any from government… they don't indulge in thinking.
"levels the playing field for Australian businesses" < Comedy right there. It will do exactly NOTHING for Australian businesses.
"Treasury modelling indicates that 75 per cent of goods by value imported into Australia will continue to go untaxed under this model." … Because 25% of items will no longer be imported due to Amazon blocking Australian's access.
What I get from the article is essentially:
“A number of other countries are taking a similar approach and adopting a vendor collection model to collect GST from low value imported goods."
Sure, Mordor will do the same next year, with Wonderland and Eternia to follow in 2020…
“The government doesn’t apologise for ensuring multinationals pay a fair amount of tax here in Australia." Clearly the treasurer doesn't even understand how GST works or who actually pays it.
"That tax revenue is used to fund essential services." I haven't seen any evidence that any revenue funds essential services before funding the treasurer's paycheck or any other politician's.
I've been feeling very comfortable with the current situation of having to pay taxes for import orders above 1000$.
Does anyone know what is the background of this change? I heard that some local merchants are protesting to the government but is this necessary? because if they applied 10% gst on all imports order, i'm pretty sure that there will be a huge difference when we're ordering online
Shopapocalypse
Dont forget to spend your Amazon credits b4hand
All because of some stupid retailers who insist on applying beyond-ridiculous margins, such that even with "40% off sales" you pay more than you would from a retailer who has to ship it from the other side of the world.
"Australian Retailers Association Chief Executive Russell Zimmerman said he expects the Government to tweak the system in the future."
Translation: After most people don't kick up a fuss and we have it in place, we'll increase the tax.
Nope. Just make sure the noose gets everyone
The "stupid retailers" have to pay rent for their shops, and I think it's not cheap.
I tried the "Sunday Rotary Gordon Market", need insurance and you pay $80 for 1 parking spot to set up your stall.
I sold stuff for about $160, no near enough to cover the expenses. A stall at Balmoral or The Rocks market will surely be around $500.
Advertising on facebook MarketPlace and Gumtree is FREE
Why would you pay for a stall and sit around all day bored as???
Frigging depressing. I'm gutted. My first order with Amazon was last century. 1999.
I don't give a XXXX about the extra cost or GST. It has ALWAYS been about availability. I just buy stuff overseas I want that I CAN'T get here.
If Amazon AU manage to cater for it, great, but I'm talking I use Amazon UK, FR, DE, and JP as well.
I guess i'll be doing less frequent orders, and use a mail forwarder service.
I would be overjoyed if amazon AU worked out, but I really doubt it. They can't even tag the products they have so you can find them.
For me it's both - most of the time I get things which I can't get here, and which if I could, would cost way more.
More reason to boycott the brick and mortar stores which made this happen.
One of the main backers was Myers, but there is no point boycotting them as there is very little of them left to boycott.
Yeah definitely the boycott.
It is insane as it isn't going to benefit the whiners like harvey. Not like I can go the HN and buy much of anything. And the goods I do get from stores like them, like whitegoods, TVs etc, there is no way it is practical to buy from overseas. And the stuff I do get overseas, I can't buy here.
If anything, even if Amazon glogal manage to sell a good deal of stuff via Amazon AU, it will in the end just benefit Amazon even more.
@Mobe1969: I never buy whitegoods from HN, as they are usually more expensive than other places. Lately, the cheapest option is wait for an eBay 20% off sale and get it from a place like Betta's Electrical.
With many of the major electrical giants merging, we are even more screwed for choice.
@Mobe1969: @Make it so: I'm not disagreeing - but we use Aus retailers and etailers for the sort of stuff they sell.
Gerry Harvey and Solomon Lew are kents.
Fekyn Kents.
cvnts.
*Mods: spelling.
Legitimate question: how will the gov enforce the 10% GST? I did a quick google but nothing came up.
I think they are requiring it on vendors and handing over the ATO to enforce. Small overseas one man operations who send you something through the post probably won't be targetted, it is the big guys that will be targetted for enforcement like eBay, Amazon, Wiggle.
Ahh I see. What about asos you reckon? Their 20% off sales won't mean shit with 10% increases :(
@waterbottled:
The problem for platforms like eBay is they need to apply tax based on where the item is.
As we know every Chinese seller is located in Darwin, so as I'm in Oz buying a product from Oz there should be no GST applied. Maybe they're hoping all those sellers will get ABN's and register for GST.
Still don't know what the "too low to bother with" value is (if there is one).
@D C:
Still don't know what the "too low to bother with" value is (if there is one).
For businesses claiming GST back, a tax invoice is required for purchases over $82.50, so that's not a bad starting point if you were gonna guess about an enforcement limit.
Gee that article has been pulled already. What did it say????
retail
‘We regret any inconvenience this may cause’: Amazon to stop shipping to Australia from July 1
AMAZON will stop shipping overseas purchases to Australia from July 1 in response to the government’s GST changes.
@boomramada: You forget to include the fact that Amazon will enable those products that can exported, directly listed in Amazon.com.au.
I really hope that is the case for all affected amazons. Including Japan, the UK, France and Germany, who I all use. I have no issue it that works.
@boomramada: @Mobe1969: That is in fact going to be the case, but the price is now going to be different (not in a good way), because it would include the tax, thanks to old mate Gerry who would never get another cent of my money.
It's pretty shit. There's better ways to get revenue, like taxing companies operating in tax havens and stop taking fossil fuel bribes.
Also, electronic games in Australia are more expensive, even after conversion.
Just to put some context about the tax revenue argument Australia gained $600m in gas royalties for the same volume that Qatar raised $26.6 billion on.
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/03/lng-ripping-austral…
Don't forget that the coalition favours foreign investors over Australians and remember who has the right to vote to encourage govnts to act in the national interest.
Might need to get the Ankers bluetooth headphones before July 1st.
Same
vpn?
Doesn't work as the ship to address will be Australian.
And if you use a freight forwarder that might not work either according to a poster above.
Can't you just use a company like Shipito?? They provide you with an address that is legit, had countless items shipped in the past with no issues. Guessing though Amazon will also start blocking payments from Paylpal AUS etc to stop us?
Can't pay with PayPal on Amazon - they may start blocking AUS credit cards however…
@urbancartel: I doubt it. You might be an Aussie citizen on holiday to the US, or a recent immigrant who hasn't moved their banking yet…
Shipping address.
Do we have an unAustralian of the year award? Cos I nominate Gerry Harvey until the end of time.
With the billions of dollars he has I don't think he would give a toss if he was given such an award. In fact, such is his sense of self importance he would probably enjoy getting any award.
You are now given a choice you get to be called unaustralian by some random internet poster and have billions of dollars or be called Australian and be a forever pleb. What do you choose?
Trust me, he ain't a billionaire (three comma club) by any means. That's why he's whining so much.
I remember a news article which highlighted the chains overall profit and number of stores. I worked it out to be roughly $1 mil per store annually. So about a few thousand profit per store daily, which I reckon is abysmal all things considered.
Edit: according to wiki he is a billionaire. Maybe it was wishful thinking on my part.
@phil1311: Harvey Normans figures are not opaque at all due to the corporate structure he uses.
My guess is that he is making a lot more than $1m a store.
I havent been shopping at that joint for a while.
Garry must have his ear felt super hot today for unknown reason :)
I am really saddened by this. I understand why Amazon.com who have a turnover of $180B annually (of which only $1B was aussie spend, pre amazon.com.au) could care less about the drop in the ocean, but I guess I see the bigger picture here. If Amazon were seen to capitulate to the Australian government and do what is being asked, that would open the door for other Amazon market governments to do the same? (I assume they don't already). This would equal big costs for them in the long run..
At the same time, sucks to be me as I have several hobbies which mean I need to buy specialist equipment (metalsmithing, woodwork, tools and consumables) that are just not offered on Amazon.com.au (not maintstream enough, unlikely to ever be offered there) or are either flat out not available locally or are available at a hugely inflated price.
Basically, sucks.
sucks to be me as I have several hobbies which mean I need to buy specialist equipment
I'm in the same boat, and not the slow one from China.
So now we don't even get the chance to pay an extra 10%, we can't get it all all. Thanks Gerry.
I'm in the same situation but not really impacted by this Amazon policy change. I can get a lot of cheap quadcopter parts to put together from China that no Aus retailer sells. And if they do, they're selling some 3x marked up equivalent that does exactly the same thing.
but not really impacted… from China
We haven't heard from Alibaba yet.
I see Amazon US been the issue here not the Aus government. Amazon careless about their global site serving to Aus as they get more $$ from the Au version.
Maybe we should boycott Amazon Au :)
I'm happy to pay GST as there are stuff in Amazon you can't buy locally. Amazon Au is just a online shop front for Australian retailers just to compete with Ebay.
I will never ever buy anything from Hardly Normal again.