PSA: ING International ATM Fee Rebate Is Still Amazing

peterpeterpumpkin on 30/05/2018 - 12:16

Hi,

On OzBargain and elsewhere you still often hear the outdated tip that Citibank Debit cards are the best option for Australians pulling money out of ATMs abroad.

Of course that is no longer the case since ING introduced its full rebate for all ATM fees internationally. The only catch being you need to deposit $1000 and make 5 transactions the preceding month.

To highlight how ridiculously useful this is, here's a screenshot of a 200 baht (~$8.30 AUD) ATM withdrawal at Bangkok airport, Thailand. The ATM fee was a ridiculous 220 baht ($9.13 AUD), higher than the amount withdrawn, and this amount was fully refunded. And that doesn't even include the standard $2.50 ATM fee that ING also refunds.

It would seem a bitter ING customer with a lot of time on their hands could shaft ING with 100 small ATM transactions…

Kind regards,

Me

P.S. General advice does not take into account your particular circumstances, such as your objectives, financial situation and needs. ING screenshot may have been modified to obfuscate personal details.

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Comments

  • PissLUR on 30/05/2018 - 12:32

    yup.

  • Agret on 30/05/2018 - 12:55

    Damn, that's mint. Good tip!

  • Tech5 on 30/05/2018 - 13:16
    +2

    Does ING have the same conversion rate as Citibank? IIRC Citibank conversion rate was really good

    • CyberMurning on 30/05/2018 - 14:54
      +1

      i heard basically every cards uses either visa or master conversions so should be the same between visa and visa regardless the provider/bank/issuer

      • HeWhoKnows on 31/05/2018 - 17:34

        Ahh but most charge up to 3% foreign transaction fee.
        Citibank Debit and Bankwest Platinum Credit Mastercard dont

  • retiredfeline on 30/05/2018 - 13:21

    Yes I took advantage of this ING feature recently. However Thailand is not a good example because they charge ATM fees no matter what the card, so Citibank wasn't in the running in the first place. Thailand is a place where it's actually better to take AUD and use the money changers.

    There's no reason you have to use Citibank or ING exclusively. Keep both cards and use the one that advantages you.

    • AncientWisdom on 31/05/2018 - 12:34

      In what cases does Citibank have advantage over ING?

      • retiredfeline on 31/05/2018 - 12:46

        When you don't want to satisfy the $1000 and 5 purchases condition.

        And who knows, ING might change the conditions later. So just hang on to a card even if you don't want to use it, it might come in handy later.

  • Toph Beifong on 30/05/2018 - 13:26

    I wonder if this ATM fee rebate would be sustainable long term for ING considering that these rebates are a direct cost to them.

    • HardQuiz on 30/05/2018 - 13:48

      I doubt, especially if you consider most will comply with the $1K + 5 transactions condition, only the month before the trip.

    • tellhimhesdreaming on 30/05/2018 - 14:09

      Keep in mind they have no physical branches in Australia, that's got to be a reasonable overhead they've shaved.

      • CyberMurning on 30/05/2018 - 14:55

        not really branch branch but they have something now
        https://www.ing.com.au/ing-lounge.html

        • T-man on 30/05/2018 - 23:26

          You can’t open a bank account or ask them about your account at the lounge. This is similar to the Capital One Cafe in the states.

        • AncientWisdom on 31/05/2018 - 12:30

          @T-man: it says specifically in the link that you can do these things.

    • retiredfeline on 30/05/2018 - 17:30
      +1

      I think eventually they will add conditions like they did to their cashbacks. Enjoy it while it lasts.

  • Morien on 30/05/2018 - 13:47

    Personally, I wouldn't worry about getting the bank fee back if I had that balance… But I guess that might be why I don't have a balance like that!

    (Side note: great reminder. Little reason to go with any daily savings other than ING)

  • one man clan on 30/05/2018 - 14:13
    +1

    You have $55 million in your account!!???

    • Clear on 30/05/2018 - 15:07
      +1

      After several high yield investment cars I already have a million dollarydoos.

    • dingdong3000 on 30/05/2018 - 15:47

      Guess he put extra couple of 5’s in photoshop ;)

      • retiredfeline on 30/05/2018 - 17:33

        5 in Thai is ha, so I guess he's laughing all the while using Photoshop.

        • Kyle-K on 01/06/2018 - 22:51

          Photoshop may not have been necessary, Its pretty easy to edit a live web page using the built-in development tools in web browsers.

  • KBZ on 30/05/2018 - 15:38

    Yep, I took full advantage of it in TW as well, so much better than Citibank.
    Some 7/11s I noticed had a different ATM which did charge me 100TWD which was ~4.40AUD. Made it easier for me not to walkaround finding ATMs that were fee free. (Most 7/11s were fee free)

  • jimbobaus on 31/05/2018 - 06:31
    +1

    Both cards are great if the bank actually charges the fee as a fee.
    Some banks in Asia incorporate the fee in the withdrawal.
    So when you request $100 they just ask your bank for $110 and don’t seperate the amounts.
    Both ING And Citibank have told me when this occurs they are unable to refund the bank fee.

    • GOCAT9 on 31/05/2018 - 11:31

      yep, I agree with this comment. It happened to me a couple of years back in Laos - the ATM fee was incorporated in the amount withdraw as jimbobaus said. And on top of that, if I remember correctly (could have been another ATM in Laos), the ATM told me there was an ATM fee only AFTER the money was withdrawn - bastards!!

  • GOCAT9 on 31/05/2018 - 11:33

    I am also sold on the ING card. My wife used it in Chile. The ATM fee was 5000CLP, that is more than AUD$10! We got rebated all the fees!

  • GOCAT9 on 31/05/2018 - 11:41

    My guess is that this IS sustainable for ING. Here is my logic. Lets say ING make 1% on each of the qualifying 5 purchases (percentage will be dependant on merchant agreement - some will be less, some more). Lets say ATM fee is $10. Then to cover that, the 5 purchases will have to amount to $1000 to break even. This is not totally unreasonable. This also doesn't take into account the money they may be making off your qualifying $1000 deposit. Ok, if people rip it out immediately, maybe not, but does EVERYBODY do that?

    Also, they are probably banking on that if people use the card for the qualifying 5 purchase then chances are they will be conditioned into using it more often than they otherwise may do. Just my analysis!

    • retiredfeline on 31/05/2018 - 12:07

      I don't know about that $1000 in purchases. I just bought a few things from the supermarket, shops and servo. Probably spent less than $50 in 5 purchases.

      Then I transferred >= $1000 into the account before the end of the month, and the next month I used the card overseas.

      • AncientWisdom on 31/05/2018 - 12:33

        I doubt the majority of cars holders use the card like that.

        • retiredfeline on 31/05/2018 - 12:47

          But I do and it's normal usage for me. ING is not the only card I have.

        • Colombian on 01/06/2018 - 16:10

          @greenpossum: I do it that way too, when I go shopping for groceries, I make payments of 1 dolar each at self checkout to meet the requirements.

        • demiurge on 06/06/2018 - 11:34

          @Colombian: 1 dollar? I made payments of 1 cent each.

        • retiredfeline on 06/06/2018 - 11:38
          +1

          @demiurge: You guys obviously have more time than money. It's not that hard to get 5 qualifying purchases in a month without all these acrobatics.

        • Colombian on 06/06/2018 - 11:59

          @greenpossum: acrobatics? I just make a payment or two of $1 each weekend when buying groceries. That's not acrobatic nor time consuming for me.

          I don't use ING debit card to make normal purchases because I use my Credit card to get points and also earning a little bit on interests by paying full each month. That's why I like to be an "acrobat"

        • retiredfeline on 06/06/2018 - 12:02
          +1

          @Colombian: Fair enough. Points are not worth it for me, though I'm not averse to collecting some Flybuy points for large bills now and then.

      • GOCAT9 on 31/05/2018 - 14:13

        No problem with that greenpossum. But if you don't do the 5 purchases and transfer in the $1000, then that means you are not using the ATM card overseas in the following month, so it is not costing ING!

        • retiredfeline on 31/05/2018 - 14:17

          But what if I do satisfy the conditions, and then take out lots of small withdrawals which they have to refund the ATM charges for, that's the situation where they lose money?

        • GOCAT9 on 31/05/2018 - 14:24

          @greenpossum: Correct, but I doubt that most people would want to do that just to spite. Most people would do withdrawals to suit themselves and hence not likely to do lots of small withdrawals.

        • retiredfeline on 31/05/2018 - 14:34

          @GOCAT9: Maybe, but you have to consider whether the worst case can happen. I still think your spend figure of $1000 over 5 transactions is too high. Most people don't spend an average of $200 per purchase. That alone would require a PIN instead of a tap. I think an average spend of $20 is more likely, for a meal, for supermarket shopping, for a coffee.

          In any case, that's ING's worry, not mine. I'll just take whatever benefits whenever it suits me.

        • GOCAT9 on 31/05/2018 - 15:12

          @greenpossum: Agreed on all that. But the bank would approach this as a numbers game. Whilst those 5 transactions may total much less than $1000, they amortise that across all customers who might have a lot less than $1000 total, but by far the majority of those will not be using overseas ATMs. They have succeeded in signing up customers who think (hope) they will travel one day when they will use the card in that way overseas. In the meantime, the bank wins for all those months they are at home where their ATM withdrawal fees are around the $2 mark only across Australia, compared to $5-$10 each overseas. Also, many will be too lazy to take the $1000+ back out as that is twice as much work, they'll just slowly spend it instead.

          It all based on a numbers game, doesn't matter what a few individuals do!!

        • retiredfeline on 31/05/2018 - 15:20

          @GOCAT9: It's actually not that hard to control the deposits on a month by month basis, maybe people are not aware of this and have bought the implication perpetuated by ING that you have to send your salary to ING. In fact all that you have to do is transfer in the money. My pay goes to another establishment's account where it earns interest and I set up periodic transfers to the card(s) that I want to use. Normally my Citi and ING cards are idle, and I use the McQ card because of the push notifications. When I have travel coming up, then I redirect the transfers.

        • GOCAT9 on 31/05/2018 - 15:31

          @greenpossum: Yep, agree on all that too! I sort of do a similar thing also. I wouldn't leave substantial funds in the Orange Everyday (debit card) account (no interest). Open up a free Savings Maximiser account, keep the funds there and transfer to Orange in real time when required to do an ATM withdrawal with their great app. The Maximiser account earns good interest for a savings account.

  • HeWhoKnows on 31/05/2018 - 17:32

    So exactly which card is this??????

  • demiurge on 31/05/2018 - 19:56

    Why would you withdraw $8? Seems pointless.

    • GOCAT9 on 01/06/2018 - 10:18

      I don't think you can from an ATM, isn't minimum $20?

    • peterpeterpumpkin on 01/06/2018 - 10:38

      For tl;dr, it's what tightasses do to stay tight.

      In the ol' Kuala Lumpur poorman's airport I would regularly withdraw only 10 ringgit (~$3.30) before my departure to buy a 9 ringgit chicken meal. I don't know if all the restaurants at the new airport have gotten with the times and now accept cards with no minimum purchase amount but the minimum ATM withdrawal amounts at the airport have sadly gone up.

      Bangkok presents with its own issues. The airport rail link self-serve machines (I didn't check at the counter) don't take cards - but it's only 45 baht from Phaya Thai to the airport. Why (ever) pull out more than you have to? ATMs are ubiquitous and more convenient than money changers. 7-Eleven required a whopping 300 baht minimum purchase, again making cash necessary and unavoidable. Fortunately, the convenience store in the airport itself had no minimum purchase requirements to use card (despite requiring an old-fashioned signature like elsewhere in Thailand).

      In Europe I could tap'n'go almost everywhere (bus stations in South Eastern Europe posed an issue). It hurts that I found 5 kuna in the dryer back home after doing laundry :(

      • one man clan on 01/06/2018 - 15:48

        Why don't you just draw out more than 3.30 each time and use cash until it runs out? Minimise your time looking for/at ATMs

        • peterpeterpumpkin on 01/06/2018 - 17:05

          Naturally. It's only when you've exhausted your funds and leaving a card-unfriendly country in a few hours (hence my first examples were leaving via KL airport and leaving to Bangkok airport) that this would be an issue. If I was planning on dessert I'd obviously pull out more. At the old KL airport I might have even spoiled myself and got something fancy since I would probably have had ~$6.60 equivalent plus whatever shrapnel remained from my trip. I would probably upsize my main in that case though and probably get a cheaper dessert because that's the way I roll.

          Some days I get peckish at the airport. Other days not so. Some days I have left over money from my travels. Others days nothing. Some days I buy packaged snacks with left over change before the final journey to the airport. At other times I'll take a chance at the airport.

          I do avoid carrying more than a few hundred equivalent in foreign currency when I travel regardless. I use Australian currency as a convertible backup I store as safely as possible with my passport. I've been backpacking way too long and seen way, way too much to make the rookie mistake of pulling out funds to cover the entire trip. I can give you a story from just last month ;)

  • SlickMick on 01/06/2018 - 14:21

    I disagree.
    If you happen to bank with ING this might be better. If you have a spare $1000 to deposit to get this deal it might be worth it for some, but I don't need a pain like that.

    I will never be withdrawing $8 at a time. I use 28 degree card as much as possible, but do 1 withdrawal from citi plus if I will need cash. I'll use a free atm where possible. Are there no atms in Thailand free for citibank??

    • peterpeterpumpkin on 01/06/2018 - 17:50

      I've heard rumours that Thai Citibank ATMs now charge fees even for Citi customers, but even fee-free they wouldn't have been that convenient for my short layover regardless. There's only 3 Citi ATMs in all of Bangkok - and none of those are in the airport (which I need cash to leave). Of course we've been using cash for this reason for many years now (the Thai ATM fees aren't new).

      The $1000 isn't the inconvenient part if you're travelling in the next month. Since you'll be withdrawing some of it anyway I assume - whether it's in Citibank or ING. You instantly PayID transfer the cash to your ING linked savings account at the end of the month (if you can…Citibank doesn't support it yet) and if you do the 5 transactions and leave the thousand with ING you even get to keep the couple of dollars in interest you would have made elsewhere (you might lose ~0.2% p.a. or so compared with the market leader). Setting up an account last minute for a trip next month and rushing against the clock to make your deposit and get to Woolies for your 5-way-split transaction does sound like a pain (and with my luck I'd have problems with ID verification). But the $75 ING sign-up bonus sweetens the deal. If you only do 1 withdrawal in Thailand you'll only save $9.13 or so. But this is OzBargain after all :)

  • smuggler on 02/06/2018 - 16:05

    I got charged $2.50 when i withdrew money from an ATM in a convenience store in Sydney CBD.

    I used an ING debit card and I made 5+ transactions the previous month and had my salary put into my ING savings account.

    WTH happend :(

    • peterpeterpumpkin on 02/06/2018 - 17:26

      I would ring for sure. Normally it says +$2.50 immediately.

    • Doggiie on 06/06/2018 - 12:43

      If your savings maximiser doesn't have the interest boost, then it means that you missed out. Should double check that too.

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