Should I Pay The Debt Collector or Involve ACCC. Confused!

Lhaiprazzad on 24/05/2018 - 16:33
Last edited 24/05/2018 - 17:09 by 1 other user

Hello All,

TL;DR:
Cancelled an enrolled training and now are being asked to pay a minimum of 3 months fees as per their terms and conditions. They did not provide them to us while signing up and saying that we cant plead ignorance and should pay them up. I believe that they should have handed us Terms & conditions. Are we wrong in pleading ignorance and should pay them?

Long story:
I am in a dilemma. My spouse joined my kid in a learning program. They offered free trial and after that they asked her to sign on a direct debit instruction sheet and told her that money will be debited fortnightly. My wife signed the form (the form clearly said that she is agreeing to their terms and conditions). As per her, they were not present on the other side of the sheet. I checked their website and couldn't find them there either. I went to pick my kid up on his 2nd or 3rd class and noticed that there were around 40 kids per instructor and he is sitting idle for most of the time as the instructor is teaching 4 kids at a time in turns. It seemed a waste of time for me. So I called the institute and told them that we will not send our kid anymore and to cancel our membership. Then they mentioned about mandatory 3 month membership. I told that I will pay for the classes that he attended, but they didn't agree and insisted to pay for all 3 months. So we cancelled called bank and cancelled Direct Debit instructions.

After that they engaged us via mail and we said the same thing that they didn't provide us terms & conditions and not informed us of the mandatory 3 months period.

So now its with Debt collectors and they gave a deadline to us to pay.

Am I in the right to say that I don't have to pay for all 3 months as they didn't provide us the terms & conditions while signing up?

Poll Options

  • 7
    Yes Pay up
  • 21
    No need to Pay
Financial Collector Debt

Comments

  • boomramada on 24/05/2018 - 16:39
    +3

    Short Answer, pay it up, then get involved with ACCC unless you don't care about your credit ratings.

  • chumlee on 24/05/2018 - 16:44
    +8

    Speak to debt collectors and inform them you are disputing the charge and to not default you (which they are required to comply with).

    Tell the company in writing (via email is fine), you were not presented with the terms and conditions upon signing and would not have agreed to a minimum 3 months payment as you believed it was pay as you attend. Advise them unless they withdraw the demand of payment you will lodge a complaint with consumer affairs and the ACCC.

    Check your credit history too so you can be sure there is no default listed

    • haiprazzad on 24/05/2018 - 17:42

      Sure chumlee, would do.
      I already told the debt collectors that we were not informed of the terms and conditions via email. Will do it again and ask them to withdraw the payment demand.

  • Baysew on 24/05/2018 - 17:12
    +3

    Contact Fair Trading as it appears you are in NSW.

    • haiprazzad on 24/05/2018 - 17:42

      Thanks Baysew. Will do.

  • p1 ama on 24/05/2018 - 17:15
    +5

    The ACCC isn't the right place to go - they don't deal with these sort of personal disputes. The place you would want to go is your state's "consumer affairs" division, e.g. Fair Trading for NSW.

    • haiprazzad on 24/05/2018 - 17:43

      Thanks p1 ama for letting me know. I will go to Fair Trading

  • tebbybabes on 24/05/2018 - 18:19
    +2

    Just want to wish you good luck, OP.

    From what you're saying, the tactics this Learning Institute has resorted to are disgusting to say the least.

    • haiprazzad on 24/05/2018 - 19:56

      Thanks tebbybabes. Yeah that's the reality.

  • trustnoone on 24/05/2018 - 19:33
    +1

    there were around 40 kids per instructor

    I could be wrong, I'm not a lawyer, but isn't that illegal? Isn't their a ratio like 1 educator per 10 children or something like that? https://www.careforkids.com.au/child-care-articles/article/1…

    • haiprazzad on 24/05/2018 - 19:57

      It's a karate/judo teaching type of institute.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2018 - 20:04

    You (or your wife) signed an agreement with the terms and conditions.

    You said the T&C was absent, yet signed to agree to the T&C?

    Which is it?

    • haiprazzad on 24/05/2018 - 20:56

      The sheet she signed has a statement that we are agreeing to their terms and conditions. The actual page with those terms & conditions was not presented to us. It is a different sheet and they mailed scanned copy of it to us after we asked to cancel the service.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2018 - 21:01
        +1

        We don't know much about the learning center apart from what a dissatisfied customer is reporting.

        What we do know is that you've agreed to terms and conditions that you claim weren't made available to you. Surely no one is foolish enough to agree to undisclosed terms.

        We can't tell if the learning center is dishonest nor unsatisfactory. All we know is you're trying to dishonour a contractual agreement.

        You should pay up.

        • haiprazzad on 24/05/2018 - 22:08

          I can understand your point of view. But they really did not show us their terms and conditions sheet. And yes we shouldn't have signed without reading them. That is why I am checking with you guys on whether they can demand money via debt collectors?

          They gave a single sheet, we filled our details like name, address, date, bank details etc for direct debit. Back side of the sheet is empty.

          Had they included these T&Cs as part of that page, I am sure that my wife would have read it and we would have taken an informed decision.

          Actually its not even lot of money(around $250). And I think its not worth my time, but I am not pleased with how they handled it and sent debt collectors after us.

        • ShannonN on 25/05/2018 - 00:31

          @haiprazzad:

          While yes it's uncommon or questionable not to be given them at sign up, regardless of whether the T&C were available or presented your wife agreed to the terms and conditions in writing.

          Usually when you enter a contract, the signature form has a clause similar to"I have read the T&C and agree to be bound by them"? This is what your wife signed as accepting.

          In any legal action the company will say "we gave you both pages and why would anyone sign agreeing to something without viewing the terms"?

          How can you legally prove you didn't get a copy of the t&c to read at the time. Its a case of they said we said with a signed contract being the result in favour of the company I think.

          I think its a case of just pay it and move on lesson learnt, less stressful than all the hassle.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2018 - 20:50
    +2

    Were the students given free humancentipads?

  • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2018 - 22:13
    -3

    Be clear to the debt collector:

    1) you are not refusing to pay.

    2) You will pay, but only if sufficient evidence is provided to show that your wife saw the terms and conditions,and that you are in fact liable.

    3) Also inform them that there are no terms on their website.

    4) Inform the debt collector in writing that if they contact you again without this evidence you will contact the ASIC / ACCC or whoever it is that regulates debt collectors.

    5) leave a poor review for the company on facebook / google.

    6)Go along and sit quietly outside the learning institute and hand out brochures explaining your situation / warning other parents.
    This may cost you, but there is a principle involved.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/05/2018 - 08:59
      -1

      1. He is refusing to pay, otherwise it would have been paid.

      2. I think a physical copy of the contract is sufficient evidence. It is not common practice to have a video recording that tracks eye movement when signing documents of any capacity.

      3. Websites do not need to include T&C if no transactions are made via said website.

      4. Threatening the debt collecter with ASIC/ACCC is straight up WTF?

      5. Leaving a poor review that cannot be substantiated and out of malice is libel. It is unlawful and you may have to compensate for perceived damage.

      6. Handing out defamatory brochures (Dr Boom?) is malicious defamation. It will make for compelling evidence the origin and intent of the action. You will certainly be paying for damages here.

  • eqv on 25/05/2018 - 00:07

    In general, to form a valid and binding contract, the terms need to be clearly communicated. If they are not, then the contract would be void and therefore not enforcable.

  • Sofie519 on 25/05/2018 - 13:03

    If your wife signed that she agrees to the terms and conditions, then one can only conclude that she read it before signing. Otherwise any reasonable person would ask for the t&cs or strike that clause out. This would be the legal view, denying that it was provided will only be met with the same response, why did you sign to accept it then?

    Now if you feel you have a case against the institution, then that is a separate case.

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