Should Australian Federal Government Mandate That All Shops Have EFTPOS/Electronic Payment Options?

SupeNintendoChalmers on 15/05/2018 - 12:18

Every time I walk past a whole bunch of eateries, in particular in the more ethnic parts of Melbourne the stores either-

  • accept cash only
  • say the machine is "broken"
  • make you pay a surcharge for the use of the machine

With the latter, sometimes the added cost is reasonable, other times not so.

Whilst we can all agree that big businesses who pay no or next to tax are detrimental to our economy, so are the steady stream of small shops who refuse to do the right thing.

Personally, I'd love to open a cafe, but I know that I would never be able to compete with immoral operators, who live in the cash economy.

What I'm proposing is that federal government make is illegal not to have functioning electronic payment options, that the banks offer the service for a piecemeal amount, say $50 per month and that shops therefore no longer have surcharges.

What do you think?

Poll Options

  • 228
    Yes
  • 416
    No
General Discussion

Comments

      • D C on 19/05/2018 - 01:23

        I suspect due to not paying their employees a legal wage.

        Why should they pay their kids?

    • Ti-au on 17/05/2018 - 17:19

      I think the tax involved would probably pay for all the glassing operations required.

      Plus we reduced that problem through legislation - why not this problem?

  • MementoMori on 17/05/2018 - 13:54

    I'm more concerned about the demonisation of cash.

    With all the manipulation and other dodgy behavior from banks and those who create our money supply, can you imagine what will happen if it all went 100% digital?

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 17/05/2018 - 14:22

      you raise a valid point, and I'm afraid the only real remedy to this would be greater regulation and oversight.

    • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2018 - 22:53

      Huh? Most of our cash is already digital. For the most part cash is used by people doing dodgy things. The fact that we're not 100% digital doesn't make it any harder for banks to do these things you're demonising them for :o (Ironically the most dodgy things banks have done recently appears to be laundering physical cash for criminals by accepting large suspicious deposits).

      • MementoMori on 18/05/2018 - 14:45

        No, cash is not used for the most part for dodgy things. Neither is crypto, which they'll also tell you.

        That is what the banking elite want you to think though. Cash is essentially a non-trackable, non-'freezable' asset kept outside of the banking system. If everything was 100% digital you could financially disabled at the press of a button (or mistake at the bank). Take a look at what happened in Cyprus recently for a better idea of what would be possible.

  • TimApple on 17/05/2018 - 14:41
    +4

    Did the government have to mandate everyone to stop buying horses and start buying cars in the 1990s? No. People made cheaper cars and build roads, and that's how you switch everyone to use cars. If banks compete to make their terminals cheaper and cheaper, this will happen too. There's no need for regulations. People vote with their wallet.

  • mohan76 on 17/05/2018 - 16:52

    did every one forgot about Greece and cypress ? only Cash have high liquidity.
    most tax evasion transaction made throw banks ($$ wise).

    • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2018 - 23:09
      +1

      No I think people just understand what happened in Greece.

      Greece uses the Euro.
      Greece does not control the Euro.
      This is a problem for Greece, because most countries would handle this situation by devaluing their currency, something Greece could not do.

      A more applicable scenario for Australia (if worse came to worse) would be Zimbabwe or Venezuela. People with money in the bank can quickly transfer it to other assets, while physical cash has quickly become utterly worthless.

      So if you're talking about a total economic crash in Australia preventing people from withdrawing money, that money would already be worthless, especially in physical form.

      If you wanted to guard against that you'd need something like physical Gold which could be traded at roughly the same purchasing power over time.

  • MetalPhreak on 17/05/2018 - 17:05

    What do you do for a living? We should make the government mandate you provide your services 8hrs a day 5 days a week for $500/month.

    What’s that? Your cost of doing business is higher? No way.

    $50/month won’t even pay for the eftpos terminal itself.

  • AJW on 17/05/2018 - 17:53
    +2

    Need the OP to own or run a business before you post shit like this stating "not paying their share of tax, whilsts screwing employees of super, leave loading, etc." and "Fair Work Australia is adamant about this" - any facts to back this up?

    What a load of a shit post…

    • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2018 - 18:10

      Yeah I agree. There needs to be a crack down on these dodgy businesses who fail to supply eftpos for payment

      Maybe a public listing of these dodgy places to inform people to stay away. If they don't rectify the issue in 6 months increase their tax

    • Adz81 on 18/05/2018 - 14:53

      This.

    • counterbargainglobal on 19/05/2018 - 19:57

      Yes OP is quiet a load of entitled piece of shit.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2018 - 19:18
    +2

    Why go after petty money when big companies are getting away with billions?

  • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2018 - 19:52
    +1

    Its simple, don't shop to any place who accept cash only. All business must have traceable income so they all taxed fairly.

    As a 'high' income earner, I paid tax more than $50k each year for more than 20 years, that's more than a million dollar just in tax. The government made a huge profit out of me, they should give me a medal for this.

    • LUTSlit on 17/05/2018 - 20:00
      +2

      Hi r u single? Xx

    • Ti-au on 19/05/2018 - 19:28

      U can afford your own medal.
      I would recommend the golden rough.

  • LUTSlit on 17/05/2018 - 19:59
    -3

    OMG this is like so racist.

  • noshopping on 17/05/2018 - 22:43

    you do realize that to accept CC/eftpos you need to be APPROVED for one, like applying for a home loan? They do a full credit check and if you/your firm even had 1 late payment on your credit file, say goodbye to eftpos accepting machine.

    • jv on 17/05/2018 - 22:46
      +1

      you do realize that to accept CC/eftpos you need to be APPROVED for one

      Rubbish…

      You can accept credit cards using a PayPal card reader…

      • noshopping on 17/05/2018 - 22:53
        -1

        Paypal card reader: 1.95% for card reader payments

        when we got our eftpos approved our rates were: 0.4% bank fee + 0.0450% MC fee = 0.445%

        I believe Coles, Woolworths and the larger stores get even cheaper rates than that.

        A 1.5% tax burden for people who can't get proper EFTPOS machines.

        paypal card reader still requires you to undergo application.

        lets assume avg small-med retail business does $10k/week, so about $520k/year.

        On that revenue, they need to now allocate $10,140 annually just to pay eftpos fees (if using paypal reader). Yes, it's just 2%, but at the end of the day, 2% here and there, then next year it's another 3% for something else, it adds up when you have a business with dozens/hundreds of things to pay. We added eftpos because we saw perhaps a 10% increase in sales, but ultimately I dislike when the gov forces laws on "all" people/businesses, just like the 10% gst on all imports coming in July this year. Supporting Aussie businesses, yeah…

        • jv on 18/05/2018 - 09:08
          +1

          paypal card reader still requires you to undergo application.

          I wasn't required to put in an application. I bought it online and linked it to my Paypal account.

          when we got our eftpos approved our rates were: 0.4% bank fee + 0.0450% MC fee = 0.445%

          an what about the other costs for the eftpos machine?

      • whooah1979 on 18/05/2018 - 06:17

        PayPal card reader

        PayPal doesn’t operate like other financial institutions in Australia. It’s not uncommon for them to hold payments or limit accounts as they please. We had an inr dispute where they didn’t want to issue a full refund. The dispute went on for months until we received a full refund from our bank instead of them. Paypal then put a hold on our account pending we provide them documents.

        • jv on 18/05/2018 - 09:05

          It’s not uncommon for them to hold payments or limit accounts as they please.

          I've never had a problem.

          I also use Stripe. (Less fees)

    • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2018 - 22:58

      Ahh, how do you expect to get a lease if you fail a check to accept payments?

      So worst case for a food establishment say payments costs you 2%. 8c on your $4 coffee? Doesn't really seem worth having a surcharge for the extra customer frustration / staff time dealing with that does it? Might explain why all the eateries I've found in the last 9 months accept cards without surcharge now.

      • noshopping on 17/05/2018 - 23:04
        +1

        Title: "Should Australian Federal Government Mandate That All Shops Have EFTPOS"
        different retail categories get charged different rates. if you are in a high risk industry, you might pay 3x-5x than say a food store.

  • jv on 17/05/2018 - 22:44
    +1

    I pay with bitcoins

  • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2018 - 23:04

    Some more interesting reading:

    Cafe in the UK that doesn't accept CASH.
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/why-ive-banned-cash-coffee-10…

    And Brisbane:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-04/new-cashless-cafe-open…

  • Punda on 17/05/2018 - 23:39

    My work pays $900 a month in merchant fees so people can use cards. $50 a month would be a dream!

  • Slippery Otter on 18/05/2018 - 09:54
    +3

    Ok here is an insight from owner of a bottleshop/Cafe with an ATM machine:

    -I'm competing with asain grocers in the business street, Some are cash only
    - When those customers come from those cash only shops, they come to my shop to cash out when they purchase an item, there's no limitation. Can buy as little as $1.50 cig lighters! It only costs us 4 cents when they cash out, it's a great way to advertise our products and service. For ING customers they go straight to the ATM (we still earn a margin)
    -All other customers who buy from us, we're charged 9 cents for EFTPOS savings/Chq and 0.57% for Mastercard/Visa 1.20% for Amex. Customer does not pay any extra!
    - Why are we getting good rates? Well we're part of a franchise chain which offsets the franchise fee per month

    Notes to take:
    - Some businesses choose to operate fully independant, sometimes it's better! Sometimes worse!
    - We get an insight of that cash only business customer base and try and entice them with a small coffee begin with (highest profit margin for us) and sometimes we get repeat business from them.
    - Without those cash only businesses, we wouldn't benefit at all!

    Why do we only get charged 4 cents instead of 9 cents for cash out? I don't know, ask our bank :)
    We have a backup terminal which is used when our main terminal goes offline. Yes it's annoying when I have to point it upwards as if im taking a selfie to get better coverage but it's there for those reasons!

  • mranderson978 on 18/05/2018 - 12:10
    -1

    Because we need more government interference.

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 18/05/2018 - 12:22

      Agree 100%, as the Royal Commission on Banking has shown us

      • locknuts on 20/05/2018 - 12:26

        It's relative though. Maybe we need to shine a light on misconduct within the extremely powerful banking sector. But legislating what forms of payment a business can take seems like a massive waste of money. I'd imagine enforcing it would cost more than you would ever get back in taxes.

  • Georgevic on 18/05/2018 - 12:36

    Lol of course not.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 18/05/2018 - 13:45

    IF a shop (or whatever) doesn't want to accept a payment in your preferred payment method - then just don't shop there.

    If you can, let them know why you won't be back and then vote with your feet. There are many good, if not better, alternate options out there.

  • dealsucker on 18/05/2018 - 15:35
    +1

    I wonder why people are even saying no to this. Its not that you cannot pay cash even if they have EFTPOS but it will tackle the black market in some way.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/05/2018 - 23:10
      +1

      People are not saying no to widespread eftpos. They are saying no to governments forcing businesses to use a private service.

  • Julius on 18/05/2018 - 18:15

    If you feel strongly about stores with a no cash/minimum surcharge policy, just do not give them your business. Vote with your money.

  • [Deactivated] on 18/05/2018 - 19:26
    -1

    Whenever I go to shop somewhere, if they have no visible signage stating "cash only" and I get to the counter with my items only for them to tell me they don't accept EFTPOS. I simply say "I don't carry cash" and walk out. They can put all my items back one by one for wasting my time. It's 2018, not 1918. Get with the times.

    • tonsta on 18/05/2018 - 19:37

      you're just being a douche, why would you do that? why would you assume they accept cards? the only form of tender to settle a purchase or debt in Australia is cash, cash is the only assumption you can make.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/05/2018 - 19:44
        -1

        I'm not going to ask every single business I walk into if they accept EFTPOS in the 21st century. If you have a sign, I walk out. If you don't, I leave my stuff at the counter when you tell me and I leave. Simple. As I said previously, it's the 21st century and perfectly safe to assume that a business accepts EFTPOS.

        According to the Reserve Bank Act 1959, cash DOES NOT need to be accepted. Which makes your statement "cash being the only assumption you can make" wrong.

        • tonsta on 18/05/2018 - 20:01
          -2

          You are correct but the store needs to specify an alternative form of payment to cash, eg EFTPOS, gold etc otherwise cash is king.

          An example is a coffee shop that only accepts EFT due to people stealing the tip jar. They put up signs saying NO CASH but they have to provide alternative payments otherwise people can just walk out of the stores with their coffees.

        • [Deactivated] on 18/05/2018 - 20:21

          @tonsta:

          Exactly, so a store that doesn't accept EFTPOS needs to offer an alternative form of payment (cash) and they should make it clear by putting up a sign stating NO EFTPOS.

        • tonsta on 18/05/2018 - 20:29
          -1

          @nurries: cash is the default.

        • [Deactivated] on 18/05/2018 - 20:34

          @tonsta:

          Ok.

  • tonsta on 18/05/2018 - 19:30
    +1

    who's going to pay for the merchant services?

  • tonsta on 18/05/2018 - 19:45
    +1

    $50 extra to our rorting banks per month….. are you a banker?

  • Roddi on 19/05/2018 - 04:07
    +4

    Have a look at https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/data/tackling-undeclared-wor…
    Sweden mandated certified cash registers, to crack down on off-the-books payments.
    It happened, it wasn't impractical.
    Another link is https://www.quora.com/Which-European-countries-require-Certi…

    What was done
    "As of 1 January 2010, businesses selling goods and services in return for cash payments must have a certified cash register. This rule is the result of a legislation that was enacted by the Swedish Parliament (2007:592). A certified cash register consists of two parts: a cash register with a manufacturer declaration and a special control unit, a black box, which is connected to the cash register. The black box reads transactions made by the cash register. Only staff at the Swedish Tax Agency can access information in the black box. The businesses bear the costs of the cash registers, which cost around SEK 15,000 (€1,785). Companies not complying with the law may be fined SEK 10,000 (€1,190) by the Swedish Tax Agency. If the company once again fails to comply with the law within a year, a fine of 20,000 (€23,800) is charged"

    What the result was
    After a year conclusions were:
    "It is still too early to analyse the effects of the cash register law. Statistics from the Swedish Tax Agency do, however, show that the reported VAT output rose by 7% in the restaurant sector and 11% in the hairdressing industry in 2010. A part of this increase may be attributed to the introduction of the new law (Swedish Tax Agency, press release 27 June 2011)"

    • Ti-au on 19/05/2018 - 19:34

      Nice post Roddi - interesting research.
      Upvoted.

    • counterbargainglobal on 19/05/2018 - 19:55

      This is a good workaround to argue 'but it's to stop tax evasion'. So we still get to use CASH and TACKLE TAX EVASION.

      NICE!

  • DiscoJango on 19/05/2018 - 11:01

    i get the feeling more and more ozbargain members should be calling them selves ozun-informered/oziwanteverythingtobefree

    • Ti-au on 19/05/2018 - 19:36
      -1

      Wanting to stop tax evasion is different to wanting everything to be free……

      • counterbargainglobal on 19/05/2018 - 19:50

        Dumb-ass, you can evade tax through electronic means as well, it's called cyber fraud.

        And don't try to argue 'but it's harder' because it's just as easy actually.

  • imahapyboy on 19/05/2018 - 19:08
    -1

    dont like dont buy dont eat

  • counterbargainglobal on 19/05/2018 - 19:49

    Sounds like you just don't want to be inconvenienced by the fact that you need to withdraw cash.

    Suck it up and either take out cash or if you're gonna talk the talk then walk the walk and don't shop at the 'cash only' shops. You're not ENTITLED to get your way all the time.

  • richmond12 on 19/05/2018 - 20:40

    Need to rid of coins

    Only reason i choose paypass is due to the fact i dont want a handful coins back

  • Pacify on 19/05/2018 - 20:56

    Seriously OP, seriously?

  • tik tok on 19/05/2018 - 21:18
    -1

    You have been negged unfairly in most of your comments, but I agree with you

  • tik tok on 19/05/2018 - 21:20

    Also, there is incentive for the people accepting wages in cash (on which tax isn't probably reported) for such providers to exist.
    So they take on their cash on hand jobs and pay these vendors who accept only cash - no one has to report their earnings (am not saying they dont) - happy days. Just that they are enjoying the same privileges honest tax payers should. In a way creating their own parallel economy.

  • whooah1979 on 20/05/2018 - 08:13
    +1

    It’s concerning to read that so many posters are willing to let the government take away their liberties and dictate how their citizens spend their income.

    This line of thinking sounds a lot like the basics card. Keep supporting their views and a similar system could be the future of all Australian citizens.

    • syl_kn on 20/05/2018 - 11:02

      This is the most sensible thing that has been said. How are people completely ok with giving up the freedom to use or accept cash? Everyone is a nazi socialist these days.

  • locknuts on 20/05/2018 - 12:17
    +1

    If you only accept cash these days, you will naturally go out of business. Almost nobody pays with cash these days. Keep the government out of it.

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