Can You Live on Newstart @ $39/Day?

L[Deactivated] on 03/05/2018 - 17:33
Last edited 04/05/2018 - 08:47 by 1 other user

The basic Newstart Allowance (single, no kids) is about $39/day.

Liberal MP Julia Banks thinks she can live on that.

Even the Business Council of Australia doesn't accept that's possible.

As fearless OzBargainers, you're all tight, and know how to stretch a dollar.
You've also seen the explosion of property prices and homelessness around the country, especially Sydney and Melbourne.

Do you think you can live on $39/day - that's for everything - accommodation, food, transport, clothing, doctor, dentist, eneloops, Matte Black watches.

My question is confined - can you do it? - let's not have this degenerate into some pointless welfare-recipient-bashing exercise.

Phantom
The Ghost Who Walks
Skull Cave

Financial

Comments

  • mskeggs on 03/05/2018 - 17:56
    +13

    Sure, in my paid off mortgage home, with a cupboard full of spices, oil, herbs etc. to make cheap food appetising. And deep freeze so I can buy cheap stuff in bulk, and recipes and appliances to make good meals from low cost ingredients.
    And my paid off car, and outright owned phone, and family I could visit for a meal or emergency help, and my great health and zero medical expenses, and excellent literacy so I can battle Centrelink processes.

    It would be a piece of cake for a short period. I'm sure everyone on Centrelink would have the same advantages and find it equally achievable.

    • D C on 03/05/2018 - 18:07
      +2

      Don't they watch the training videos 'Yes Minister' / 'Yes prime Minister' any more?

      In one episode the politician spent his allowance, put his hand out the next day and was told "That was supposed to last you a fortnight…"

      "Oh, er, um"

      Julia Banks isn't the first to claim this stupid crap, and won't be the last. Can't remember the last one from a few years ago.

    • codinghelloworld on 04/05/2018 - 17:06

      I was motivated by your story. :)

  • bobbified on 03/05/2018 - 18:18
    +2

    Do you think you can live on $39/day - that's for everything

    The answer would be no. Accomodation alone could easily kill that.

    If you had your own home or didn't have to pay rent, then $39/day would be just sufficient for day to day. Anything that required a lump sum payment like a dental procedure would be out of the question.

    Keep in mind that the allowance wasn't designed to be a long term living solution. There has to be a balance between being able to live and still keeping it low enough so that there is an incentive for someone to go out and look for a job.

    Even at this current rate, there are already many people who live off it for years and aren't willing to get off their arse to look for work. If they were to raise that amount too high, the number of those people would just increase and that would put more strain on the welfare system. These are probably the same people who complain that the international students etc are taking all the jobs.

    • Quantumcat on 03/05/2018 - 18:28
      +4

      there are already many people who live off it for years and aren't willing to get off their arse to look for work

      This is a damaging attitude. Do you really think they live on so little by choice? There are people with multiple physical, mental, and social issues that can't get the disability pension but also have a very hard time finding work. Please exercise your empathy muscle so people know you're a real human.

      • bobbified on 03/05/2018 - 18:44
        +1

        There are people with disabilities who have fallen through the gaps because of all this bureaucracy bullshit that prevents them from receiving the correct allowance designed for them - that is, the Disability Pension - I wasn't referring to them in my earlier comments. Your comment on empathy should be directed at the politicians who want these monged up rules strictly enforced.

        The NewStart allowance was designed for people who do have the ability to work, but are temporarily unemployed for whatever reason.

        I was referring to a particular group who have been on unemployment benefits for years because they're too lazy to get off their butts to actually look for work because they think it's not worth their time or effort and would rather fartarse around every day.

        • Quantumcat on 03/05/2018 - 23:21
          +2

          I was referring to a particular group who have been on unemployment benefits for years because they're too lazy to get off their butts to actually look for work because they think it's not worth their time or effort and would rather fartarse around every day.

          This group is a tiny, tiny minority of jobseekers - don't tar them all with the same brush. Nearly everyone who is long term unemployed has some kind of issue that is preventing them from being employed, or from being employed for more than short term here and there. They would all much rather be working instead of couch surfing and eating baked beans for most meals. The lowness of Newstart actually stops people from getting jobs anyway - if you're nearly homeless, and you can't afford new clothes (so will look scrappy and smell) or a train ticket to am interview (so you can't actually physically get to the interview) - it is pretty hard to get a job.

        • bobbified on 04/05/2018 - 07:10

          @Quantumcat:

          Nearly everyone who is long term unemployed has some kind of issue that is preventing them from being employed,

          That's a pretty bold statement there - are there any stats? The DSS uses the 12 month mark to break up recipients of NewStart into long and short term unemployed people.

          If we look at the breakup of a single payment for Jan 2018, there were just under 577,000 recipients classified as long term.

          Out of that:
          a) 61,000 were classed as temporarily ill or incapacitated;
          b) 54,000 who were classed recipients who don't have "participation requirements" (such as job search) and allowees participating in Disability Management Services.

          These are the only two categories where there's possible (and I use that term loosely) disability.

          The other 462,000 don't come under any category where there's any disability component at all.

          (https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/labour-market-an…).

          I wonder how many of these receive the allowance and also work in cash-in-hand jobs.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2018 - 18:32
      +1

      …there are already many people who live off it for years…

      I doubt it - there's just not enough there in my view - but there's certainly a poverty trap risk in the numbers. Determining whether to spend $5 for the train to the job interview is no minor decision.

    • ShannonN on 04/05/2018 - 10:19

      Centrelink recipients get free dental at dental hospital and Drs generally bulk bill them, you can live on it comfortably IF you CHOOSE to live within that means.

      Like give up parties, booze, smokes and buy food, give up your own internet ( phone or computer plans) and use libraries to "Look for Jobs, social networking"

      If you have a car use it only to attend jobs not hooning around with mates, frag racing or drifting in groups. All achievable . Depends on what you are prepared to do

  • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2018 - 18:29

    BTW here's the Aged Pension rate - around $59-$65/day. Here's the DSP rate, which looks the same.

    Just mentioning this as a comparison to the Newstart rate.

  • trustnoone on 03/05/2018 - 18:42
    +6

    My question is confined - can you do it?

    Yeah this is $546 a fortnight usually get another $100 if you pay rent for about $646 a fortnight.

    Interestingly when I was at uni, I was getting around $446 a fortnight (plus 100 rent assistance) for $546 (a uni student gets less money then newstart or at least I did).

    So it was funny for me, when i started getting newstart allowance I was actually cheering about the extra $100 a week, was soooo happy haha.

    But to answer your question, yes, I lived on around $500 a week for quite a few years, and then was on newstart for 1.5 years in Sydney. Its definitely "livable" not amazingly but "livable. Obviously biggest issue is rent, I was paying about $175 a week for a tiny tiny room where I used to wake up soggy with water when it rained because it dripped through the roof and had bed bugs (which I ended up removing all of). I would love to complain but then I would have no where else to live so I never did.

    Food was probably the bigger issue, a lot of migoreng, a lot of just bread and jam as it was super cheap, definitely I was living fortnight to fortnight.

    BUT it was definitely possible, I had a roof over my head, I had clothes, I had food and it allowed me to get through uni, get through 1.5 years of newstart and get a job that I really enjoy (and now pay back way more then I ever gained through taxes haha).

    To be honest the money wasn't why I hated newstart (though obviously it wasn't the greatest), the thing I hated most was I personally felt part of the system sucked. My employment consultant never listened to me which I believe is why it took me so long to get a job. Any time you accidentally miss something, or even get sick they automatically pull your payments then have to go through a massive process to get it back. For most people this means you could easily get kicked out of your house, have no food, no clothes whatever because you didn't get a medical certificate and missed an appointment.

    Theres other issues in why I hated it, and the problems it had but I do feel super lucky that the people of Aus supported me to get me to where I am now.

    Edit -
    Also adding to this that I'm a single male with no real responsibilities at the time so that very much helped. No idea what it would be like for someone with a child, or family or anything like that.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2018 - 18:48
    +1

    The short answer is no.

    The long answer is no. I love a good spreadsheet and keep a detailed record of my spending. $280 a week would just cover my bills and basic substance groceries. There would be nothing left over to cover the mortgage, car costs and other transport, clothes, entertainment, takeaway coffee, unexpected medical costs, etc.

    The only way one could survive on Newstart would be if it were for a very short period, you had existing savings to rely on, as well as family and friends to help you out.

    • kahn on 03/05/2018 - 19:59
      +3

      substance groceries

      (ʘ‿ʘ)

  • cheapisgood on 03/05/2018 - 20:00

    How can anyone live on it? Food, rent, electricity, water, gas, internet, phone bills etc and food at the minimum.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2018 - 21:07
    +1

    The answer is yes, but not comfortably, with dignity or without making many compromises, physically, spiritually, socially and morally.

    • Illian on 05/05/2018 - 17:13
      +1

      Well yeah, but gotta disagree with 'morally'. Having been on it myself for a year in the past, and had a friend or two who have been on it, I can't think of any way it could lead to a compromise of morals, unless eating 2 minute noodles for a week at a time is a compromise of your tongue's morals lol. Currently it's only meant for short-term survival, not for comfort.

  • ShannonN on 04/05/2018 - 10:09
    -7

    Depends Most newstart recipients are 18 -20 yr olds, a large number live at home and pay no rent, mummy does what she's been doing all their lives, she shops, cooks, pays for their food,cleans the room, does the washing ironing etc.

    Did I mention they pay no rent?

    so in summary they have a full 39 dollars a day to spend on anything but rent, at least 2 meals (if eaten at home)

    Interesting to ask/survey all these really low income ppl and compare what mobiles and data plans they have, ) often latest iphone and 90 dollar per mth plans which you don't need to phone employers looking for work a 30 dollar phone and a prepaid account etc will suffice

    how many xboxes or Ps4/ computers so they have etc

    • mskeggs on 04/05/2018 - 10:23
      +4

      Do you have any evidence to support that a majority of newstart recipients are 18-20?

      Seems unlikely, as you can't receive it under the age of 22.

      It would be good not to just make stuff up.

      • ShannonN on 04/05/2018 - 10:36
        -2

        I guess to satisfy you I should have said "centrelink benefits" or drawn your attn to Youth allowance rather than assume most ppl would classify Newstart as one of the many centrelink benefits available

        Youth Allowance

        Financial help if you’re 24 or younger (Single, no children, younger than 18 years, and live at your parent’s home and studying, an Australian Apprentice, looking for work or sick.

        Approx 224 per week if you live at home

        Single, no children, 18 years or older and need to live away from parent’s home $445.80

        Note the words 18 or older or 24 or younger so that is def withing the 18 to 20 range .
        Not made up if you want the real stats contact the bureau of statistics

        • [Deactivated] on 04/05/2018 - 10:41
          +2

          https://www.humanservices.gov.au/sites/default/files/documen…
          According to these figure you are still full of crap. The youth allowance column is the smallest in every electorate.

        • mskeggs on 04/05/2018 - 11:18
          +4

          The vast bulk of people on jobseeker income support are above 22.
          The number of people under 22 on youth allowance who are not full time students (so were unemployed or apprentices) is very small.

          It is extremely hard to qualify for assistance if you live at home unless your parents are very poor.

          The Venn diagram at this ABS page shows it well:
          http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/3E23BFC2F5D0E…

          By far the largest number of recipients are people over 22 who worked a little, but did not earn enough to get off newstart.

          You are spreading errors and false information.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/05/2018 - 11:23
      +3

      If you're 18-20 years old, living at home and claiming Youth Allowance, then you're classified as a dependent and your parents income/means determines your eligibility and how much you get. Frankly, if you're getting Youth Allowance, it's likely your parents don't necessarily earn heaps.

      The idea of a young dole bludger living it up large at his/her parents house is a bit of an urban legend thrown around without much evidence to back it up.

  • ShannonN on 04/05/2018 - 11:17
    -4

    wow attack me then if it gets your rocks off
    Least that way you're not putting shit on anyone else

    • mskeggs on 04/05/2018 - 11:19
      +7

      Don't spread lies if it upsets you to be called out on it.

    • D C on 04/05/2018 - 14:26
      +3

      If life on the dole is so great why isn't everyone doing it?

      Screw work.

  • Ughhh on 04/05/2018 - 13:01

    If the Newstart allowance covered food, mortgage, entertainment, takeaway coffee and food, bills, car cost, new phone…. There wouldn't be much point in working. I'd resign and get a cash in hand part time job.

    Newstart isn't supposed to be a long term income.

    • outlander on 06/05/2018 - 03:13
      +3

      Thats not a indictment of welfare, thats an indictment on you. Where are your dreams? The dreams that might be too big for today, but that you could still make significant headway on for tomorrow. You weren't meant to give up on those

  • mysterytal on 04/05/2018 - 13:14

    Easy enough if you have no debts and have somewhere cheap enough to live. Debts would include a mortgage as well as personal loans and credit cards.

    It's a single persons allowance. There's more money if you have a partner and/or children.

    I live on Newstart. Yes there are some things I do not have. I don't own a car relying on public transport instead. Do I want a car? No. I find public transport to be sufficient, time consuming but sufficient. I also use taxis when necessary which is very rare.

  • moar bargains on 04/05/2018 - 13:14
    +1

    From personal experience it is doable, but with some caveats.

    My wife and I lived on Youth Allowance for 2.5 years when we were first married as students. We were getting about $35 a day (each; whatever the Youth Allowance rate at the time was), but this was obviously doubled, and costs shared. And we had a fairly comfortable life.
    We had cheaper than market rate rent, due to parents owning where we lived, but we did pay rent and lived by ourselves. We also had substantial savings from working in a gap year, which enabled us not to live paycheck-to-paycheck, and also meant we didn't have to work during term time, and we had no debt. Essentially though, we were living off <$25k a year, and we were managing to save money. I'm fairly sure we graduated with more combined savings than we started with. We needed and bought a (second hand) car during that time, and went on a couple of small holidays but that was driving interstate and staying with family, not a 3 week bus tour around Europe.

    However, I/we had many privileges that made my/our life easier, including many that I'm probably not even aware of. If I was thrown into it without some prior setup (sudden job loss, accident, major health costs, etc), I'm not sure how possible it would have been. It makes me think of this comic. I certainly see myself and my experiences more on the left of that comic than the right.

    I do laugh at the newspaper articles that come around from time to time about people "doing it tough" on $200k combined income a year. That's not an income problem, that's an outgo problem.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/05/2018 - 16:18
    +2

    When i started this i had in mind the scenario of an individual with no support.
    Someone essentially starting from scratch.

    This is on the basis that there will probably be quite a lot of people in those circumstances on Newstart.

    If i had to walk out my door now, leave everything behind, with say only Newstart, a phone and a few hundred dollars in the bank, i'd struggle…

    • mysterytal on 04/05/2018 - 17:18

      Yes anyone would. Without enough money to secure long term accommodation it's going to be extremely difficult. A single person if kicked out of their previous accommodation could stay in a hostel until they find a job at a cost of around $25 per night but that only leaves $15 for everything else. That isn't enough for a travel ticket so would require the jobseeker to walk everywhere and use the free city centre trams. As they only have the clothes on their back and a mobile then storage and security isn't an issue. Food can be found for next to nothing. In Melbourne we have plenty of places to get food at no cost.

      An employment services provider can provide clothing and help to secure and keep a job and can also provide Myki credit to travel to an interview so a budget doesn't need to include clothes or travel. Computers at the employment services provider can be used for free and a mobile only needs credit to receive calls. Aldi at $5 foe one year will have to do and use the phone at the employment services provider to make calls. They've given me $20 for travel before.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/05/2018 - 17:46
        +1

        That all sounds a bit like a full-time job to me…

  • codinghelloworld on 04/05/2018 - 16:54

    Short answer: sure

    Long answer: when I first come here in Sydney 2 years ago, migration, no job, had about 5k to live in some months. My first mission is to find accommodation and find job as soon as possible.

    For accommodation, I try to find share room in some areas which is close to the CBD, to reduce train fees also to reduce time to travel to the office for interview. I can remember the room is about 140$ for a week. Then cost about 30-35$ for train opal card every week.
    For food, I tried to cook myself, for example cook a little more for dinner and seperate to half, one for dinner and one for lunch tomorrow. For breakfast, I buy cheese, nuts and bread at Woolies, tea box, for around 40-50$ spending on food each week.

    I ended up with around 4.5k before getting an offer.

    So totally about 230-250 per week. so I think 39$/day for a person, without kid, it is doable.

    • mskeggs on 04/05/2018 - 17:30
      +2

      No phone or internet? No clothing expenses? No medical expenses? No bills at all except rent? No printed out resume, or costs to get copies of you student records, or haircuts or soap or shampoo?
      What would you have done if you ripped your suit, or forgot to tap on the train and got a fine.
      What if you didn’t get a job for several months, and had no savings?
      What if you drivers license renewal came due? Do you skip paying it, knowing you then can’t get a driving job? Or go without food for a week?
      What if your mum got really sick and you needed to go see her?
      What if you dropped your phone and it broke?
      What if somebody stole your shoes?

      While it may be possible to squeak by on $273 a week, it is planning to fail for the large number of people who have any bad luck or unexpected expenses, or needs beyond the most basic.

      The vast majority of people getting Newstart do not have a lazy $5k handy.

      • dbui8743 on 05/05/2018 - 21:06

        You are hinging too many things on what if.

        Plenty of people I know including myself getting by with that little money and no cash in reserve. Granted it was a while ago and we were lucky we did not get into that whatif scenario.

        But to asnwer it best, don't get a car unless you are sure you getting a driving job, cut back on the wants, more focus on the need. Share rooms as much as you can. Don't eat out. A lot of migoren and bacons lol.

        • mskeggs on 05/05/2018 - 21:21

          Not trying to be picky, but are you saying you would let your licence expire 3 weeks after you lost your job, or sell your car immediately or what?
          How do you know on the first day you are unemployed if you will be on the dole for 3 weeks or 3 months or 3 years? And the duration makes a huge difference.

        • dbui8743 on 06/05/2018 - 21:47

          @mskeggs:

          Nothing picky at all. I was just just talking about my situation. Not really related, more about how to be able to live on $39 per day which is not that difficult if not accounted for all the what ifs.

          I did not get my license till after uni, since I worked mostly at restaurants using public transport.

  • Illian on 05/05/2018 - 17:08

    Yes. I have had to do it myself for an entire year before moving across the state so I could actually find some work. I will admit, the credit card saved my ass a few times though (including moving costs)! The hardest part is car registration, hell it's a pain in the ass regardless of if you're on centrelink or not. That's while single/renting, I couldn't say in regard to other situations. It's not meant to be a long-term solution, even if sometimes it does become so, it's only meant for you to survive until you're back on your feet and it does accomplish that, barely.

  • Samsungnote10 on 05/05/2018 - 23:10

    I Thoguht new start was supplementing your lifestyle

  • ozzpete on 06/05/2018 - 01:25

    I live on about that, and can eat out all the time also. I am careful with my money on many things, so as I can afford some small luxuries which are important to me.
    I go through phases also, spend nothing for couple of days, to save. For example, there are people selling dominos vouchers for $2, I can essentially spend $2 day and thats most of my food for a day covered. Then half price crumpets and vegemite.
    I always shop for whats half price at supermarket. I actually go straight to the catalogue at front of coles, and decide what I will buy mostly based on whats on a good sale.
    As mentioned, I eat out mostly, but I shop for bargain meals, that still taste good (to me) . There is RSL club has like a $5-$6 special every day. Another club does $5.50 lunch includes all you can eat salad bar and some fruits.
    The only thing which really goes beyond about $40/day budget, is my medical bills, due to back injury. I make my money stretch, so I can be sure I always have money for physio/chiro/massage , when back gets bad.
    I do some things that seem silly and time consuming, go out of my way to save sometimes a small ammount of money, but I enjoy bargain hunting and I enjoy saving, plus the savings allow me more money to spend on other things. Things such as my new 4k TV for $999, but even with that, I bought it because it was down from $2,499, and I had a kind of strict budget that I would not spend more on a TV than what I spent on my car ($1150) .
    Without a vehicle, it would probably be much more difficult to live cheaply, (well, if you like to eat out, which I do).
    I will go to cafe overlooking beach, basically right on the beach, but I realise the food there isn't any better than food at club for $5-$6 a meal, so I will enjoy the scene and setting of cafe on beach, but just buy a coffee (not a small meal for $25) . I know what I want and spend surplus money on what I want.

  • fullmetal on 10/05/2018 - 14:11

    Newstart allowance should not be allowing someone to live comfortably or even survive on it. If it does the welfare has failed as there is no incentive for the recipient to actually get a job since he/she can live comfortably.

    • mskeggs on 13/05/2018 - 21:03
      +1

      I'm not sure keeping the dole at a level that causes people to die is a mainstream view.

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