Got Scammed on Gumtree Using Paypal Link - Paypal denies protection

Lcorepda on 01/05/2018 - 08:47

Hi All,
I recently got scammed on Gumtree with someone asking for money via Paypal. Not realising that even Paypal can be so insecure I end up transferring money. I am now in a position of no goods received and Paypal denying me the buyer protection. I looked in to a similar thread but with no outcome from OP
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/342415#comment-5291956

I am so disappointed with Paypal at the moment after they said that it is not covered under buyer protection after 20 days of me filing the claim. They are basing this on the fact that user agreement says this is not covered but do you expect people to buy something after reading user agreements all the time? Paypal is no more synonymous with buyer protection even if you act safe.

Can you please advise what are my avenues to get my money back? I lost $650. I paid it using ING Debit card and I have also raised a claim with them but not sure if they will entertain it too. Can you please advise me something to get my money back from either of the parties?

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Comments

        • corepda on 04/05/2018 - 21:29

          I did. It is apparently in manila and they talk like robots. Poor bunch of customer service agents that probably don't have rights or training to think for customer. I have raised the matter with their customer advocacy team and now raised with my bank ing as well. Fingers crossed it all turns out to be in my favor as it is a clear scam.

        • SomeBooy on 07/05/2018 - 23:19

          @corepda: I hope you get your money back then! Keep escalating it within Paypal if they are unresponsive.

  • Keeegs on 01/05/2018 - 19:10
    +3

    Years ago I bought something pretty expensive from a website and paid with PayPal, same like you the item was either "lost in transit" or "not sent at all from seller", I don't know as I don't have the shipping information.

    So I lodged a dispute with my BANK, days later I received an email from PayPal saying something along the lines that "You have lodged a dispute with your bank, we suggest that you cancel that dispute with the bank and let PayPal handle the case". I ignored that email from PayPal and let my bank do the investigation.

    A few more weeks later, the bank favoured me and refunded me the full amount.

    Lesson learnt for me is, whenever there is a dispute, raise it with your bank first. The banks will always favour you as the customer unlike PayPal.

    • Ughhh on 01/05/2018 - 19:40
      +3

      Years ago I bought something pretty expensive from a website and paid with PayPal, same like you the item was either "lost in transit" or "not sent at all from seller", I don't know as I don't have the shipping information.

      If the item was "lost in transit" or "not sent at all from seller", Paypal would have found the dispute in your favour and forced a refund, since the seller can't prove shipment.

      What you did was risk having your Paypal account flagged/banned for no reason. Would make more sense if you lost the dispute, but you don't know if you were going to.

      The banks will always favour you as the customer unlike PayPal.

      You didn't even give Paypal a chance though?

      • DingoBilly on 02/05/2018 - 10:00
        +3

        I mean, Paypal is known to be trashy as hell. I wouldn't trust them with anything based on my experiences.

        I'd actually consider going with bank just to spite Paypal at this stage, even if it was a minor thing/not worth my time. Happy to waste their time/resources and be petty as hell.

        • Ughhh on 02/05/2018 - 13:48

          I'd actually consider going with bank just to spite Paypal at this stage, even if it was a minor thing/not worth my time. Happy to waste their time/resources and be petty as hell.

          You'd probably only get to do this once, since they'll probably ban you and flag any of your linked bank accounts. Considering that many online stores only accept PayPal (unless you want to share your card details with the potentially dodgy store), make your revenge worth while.

      • snook on 03/05/2018 - 12:23

        I wouldn't give them a chance either. Years ago, they only paid a certain amount. They hold things up and waste time.

        Going straight to the bank is the better deal for something expensive.

    • kingmw on 01/05/2018 - 21:42

      Doing this might risk banning your Paypal account if that is important to you.

    • corepda on 02/05/2018 - 17:27

      Was it using debit card or credit card? Your scenario is the only hope I have left for getting my money back. People said Paypal will close my account and I dont give two hoots about that. People who are asking for others to be careful about Gumtree should rather question how Gumtree is promoting Paypal with no added protection with that method. It is like telling people to transfer money from their bank account to another account if the current level of protection is taken in to consideration.

      • c0balt on 02/05/2018 - 17:55
        +1

        People have wrote in this thread that if you paid via a credit charge to your debit account via PayPal then you should contact the back to do a chargeback. If you paid an invoice from a seller via PayPal, you most likely used a credit charge to your debit account and that changes things from how you wrote before today.

        Previously with the information you gave before today it read as though you sent the money via a direct transfer, and not as a payment for an invoice from the seller, which you have now established was how you paid (as an invoiced sale and not a direct transfer).

        If you received an invoice from a seller, and didn't directly send the money, please do contact ING to start a chargeback process (seriously, screw PayPal if you were scammed and they are no help, they deserve the chargeback) and let us know how the chargeback process goes.

        Contact ING first thing tomorrow morning to start a chargeback due to a fraudulent online seller.

        • corepda on 04/05/2018 - 21:25

          Yes that's what I have already started. I have filed the form they asked me to fill. The charge was actually for goods that someone invoiced me for so it is to be treated as a seller buyer transaction and not as a money transfer. Let's hope bank understand that and give me my money back. They used the term debit card in their transaction dispute page and I am hoping they qualify such transaction made through PayPal using their debit card.

    • Davo1111 on 06/05/2018 - 16:39

      This works if you can walk away from paypal. But be aware they ban you from their services.

  • love2buy on 01/05/2018 - 19:47

    Should use ozbargain classifieds.

    • c0balt on 02/05/2018 - 17:59
      +1

      So he can reach all the 10 people who use it?

  • drprox on 01/05/2018 - 22:11

    I lost $700 selling an item to a guy who paid with a stolen account..should've protected myself better. Hard lesson learned.

    • Ridiculous Panda on 02/05/2018 - 19:44

      How’s that your fault? And how do you porotect yourself against that?

      • Ughhh on 02/05/2018 - 22:03
        +1

        By what Gumtree was always intended for- face to face cash transaction.

  • bonkers22 on 02/05/2018 - 08:42

    There is hope, this happened to me a few years ago, but I got my money back. I had been in the same situation although $900 for an iPhone. Basically, I just did a chargeback and provided all the proof (posted ad on gumtree, text correspondence etc.) to my bank (also a Debit card through PayPal).

    I had just turned 18 at the time and had my end of semester exams going. You could say it was a life lesson.

    • corepda on 02/05/2018 - 17:29

      I am so glad that you got your money back. I hope my bank does the same to me. It is ING and I am not sure how customer focussed they are in this case.

  • ddhar on 02/05/2018 - 10:12
    +4

    I once inquired about a Gumtree item selling for really low price ($500 versus normal $900-$1000 asking prices). Strangely they insisted Paypal payment. I told them cash is better as they will avoid Paypal fees and I want to see the item in person anyway. They just went silent.

    Looking back and to this thread, looks like I avoided dealing with a scammer. Paying with Paypal on Gumtree made zero sense to me.

  • sleet on 02/05/2018 - 10:31

    All these stories make me not bother with gumtree to save some extra cash. I'd rather pay more for the 'insurance' especially with high value items.

    The only things I've every bought on gumtree are shoes and textbooks that I've met with the seller in person.

    All the best OP.

    • Blitzfx on 02/05/2018 - 14:14

      If those were University textbooks, you still got scammed.

      • sleet on 02/05/2018 - 22:59

        Haha i never bought uni textbooks luckily. Just high school ones that i use to tutor my nephews and nieces with.

  • smpantsonfire on 02/05/2018 - 11:26

    Facebook marketplace is where its at these days anyway.

    • HeWhoKnows on 02/05/2018 - 12:16

      Yes, lots of scammers on Facebook Marketplace!
      But also lots of honest buyers and sellers too.
      I always check the persons Facebook profile

  • HeWhoKnows on 02/05/2018 - 12:15
    +1

    I bought a phone on gumtree, paid with PayPal and had it sent to me only to find it was faulty.
    Contacted Paypal and they immediately refunded the entire amount, no questions asked and told me to keep the phone as well

    • corepda on 02/05/2018 - 17:32

      Thats strange and I was thinking given this is a clear case of scamming, they will side with me but they didn't and which makes me think they are no longer bothered about protecting their customers anymore. This is not a subjective opinion about whether the item is in good condition or whether it was faulty before it was sent, this is a clear case of someone running away with my money without even a single conversation post the purchase.

      • mgsydney on 02/05/2018 - 17:59
        +1

        Look at it this way - the worst case is you dont get your money back.

        If you are willing to at least try a few avenues, and feel you have nothing to lose, some options are:

        1. Contacting Gumtree to see what processes they have (if any) for providing info - will they need a subpoena perhaps?
        2. Same as (2) but with PayPal?
        3. What identifying features did you have from the ad - as in, mobile number or an email? Police may be able to assist but youd need something like a contact number, and even those can be registered in a false name (but you'd be surprised how stupid some people are to forget and use a long-standing number)
        4. For a civil action you need their name and address. So (1) or (2) (3) is really the only way.
        5. Ombudsman and ACCC are thoroughly useless - but you can try them to at least find out what rights you have (scant from my knowledge of the law)

        Keep any resolution you have within a reasonable cost to you - otherwise it becomes pointless if youre spending $$$ on any legals with no guarantee of resolution.

        I really hate eBay but its that damn protection that keeps me using it… I hope you get some resolution but if not, just learn from it, pray the scammer chokes on whatever they buy with the money and be thankful it wasnt much more.

  • MrBillions on 02/05/2018 - 22:53

    paypal can be horrible

  • bugger off on 03/05/2018 - 08:33

    Online shopping 101:
    Ebay + PayPal
    Gumtree + Cash.

  • centrelink on 03/05/2018 - 10:10

    Looks bleak on your end of you are going to get help from PayPal and the banks. Sounds like the best confrontation is to go to that persons house to get your money back.

  • T1OOO on 03/05/2018 - 13:40

    Every day same thing. Please put a sticky.

    Gumtree = cash only.

  • imissbeans on 06/05/2018 - 05:59

    We paid a $1k USD deposit on some goods from a supplier in China. Though it's not Gumtree, I wanted to share this because PayPal sided in our favour. The supplier didn't deliver anything and months passed. In the last month we successfully claimed a refund through PayPal. We did request that they invoiced us an itemised invoice through PayPal.

  • cloudy on 08/05/2018 - 22:35

    I’ll say it again,

    When a man with wisdom meets a man with money, the man with wisdom leaves with the money and the man with money leaves with the wisdom. In this case, all Ozbargainers leave with the wisdom, bonus!

    • gimme on 10/05/2018 - 14:47

      " all Ozbargainers leave with the wisdom" … if you have been with OZB long enough, you'll see that it's not true. Same garbage seems to come up over and over again.

  • corepda on 24/05/2018 - 22:07

    ok I have a Great news to share with others. I have managed to get the money back from Paypal after I filed a review petition in their Paypal office of executive Escalations. Below is the snippet from their email:

    Having reviewed this matter fully it is apparent you were unaware such transactions were not eligible for cover; as such, I would like to offer you a credit of $650.00 AUD, the full cost of this transaction as a gesture of goodwill. Should you wish to accept this offer in full and final settlement of your complaint, please respond directly to this email signalling your intention to do so.

    Cheers to all those who supported the idea of challenging their offshore agent's decision. I think if you are honest and truthful something works for you. Thumbs down to people who repeated things like parrots - that I wont get it and it is my mistake. It is clearly shown that even Paypal now acknowledge that Gumtree connection is not very clear to customers and they genuinely can get in to this trap. I have learnt my lesson but I still feel it was a very genuine mistake and any smart online buyer can fell for it. Anyway, my money is back and I hope you will contact PayPal's Office of Executive Escalations in case you have fallen for something similar. To help you further, if you PM me i will share my ref no# so you can use my decision as a base for your refund. But like I said, I will never send money via paypal on Gumtree and hoping no one would do that as well and will read this thread atleast once by good fortune, to avoid getting in to any trouble.

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