High School Selection - Public Vs Private - My Current Circumstances

• 

  nocure on 15/03/2018 - 11:09

  +2

  Public for primary, Private for secondary.

• 

  coco1458 on 15/03/2018 - 11:16

  +3

  Depends what you're really going for.
  If your child can study independently and look for other sources of assistance with his VCE studies they'll perform well irregardless.
  What I can tell you is that some lower quality schools do have assistance programs to get them into those Elite Universities.
  SEAS consideration are generally given to schools that are lower performing, but at the same time if your child is a hard worker and keen to perform well, there may even be a scholarship from the school.

  I've known high performing students from both public and private and it all comes down to the ability to study

• 

  [Deactivated] on 15/03/2018 - 11:31

  Going to a private school may indirectly help with getting into a desireable University course but that's only because they're likely better groomed for the interviews and likely to score better in their exams.

  The popular belief amongst self proclaimed victims of imaginary heirarchy that lawyers and doctors trample on the working class does not exist. Neither of my parents are doctors or lawyers. Most of my peers were from working class background.

  I would still send my kid to a better school as school culture is very important. Being socialized with ambitious and hard-working students have the same peer pressure effect as being thrown in with delinquents.

  Ps. After school tuition was completely useless for me. I used that time to leer creepily at girls. The only thing that motivated me to study was opening my textbook during VCE swat vac and finding out there were chapters in the textbook that I didn't even know about.

• 

  original15 on 15/03/2018 - 11:45

  IS your son in grade 6? Are there any scholarships still open in nearby schools?

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 15/03/2018 - 13:20

    There are a few scholarship that we are looking into. However, most scholarships offers 25%-50% of the tuition fee and the students need to keep a good standard. 50% off private school fees are still a sizable amount though.

    • 

      Scrooge McDuck on 15/03/2018 - 16:54

      You could get him tuition for the selective schools exam.

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  Ryanek on 15/03/2018 - 12:01

  +4

  I admire you're willing to make all these changes for the benefit of your child. You're a good parent mate.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 15/03/2018 - 13:21

    +1

    Thanks for the compliment. Just trying my best for them.

    • 

      Scrooge McDuck on 15/03/2018 - 16:55

      Which school does your son want to attend?

      • 

        blitzzbargain on 16/03/2018 - 19:15

        He does know yet. Most likely follow his friends. But some of this friends will go to a school that is not in our catchment :(

  • 

    mskeggs on 15/03/2018 - 13:58

    +3

    I think the level of importance that OP is putting on schooling and academic performance for an 'above average (but not on top)' kid is unhealthy.

    How is the child going to feel if they gain academic results in line with their ability after their parent has made it clear they will go to extraordinary lengths to tilt the field a little bit in the kids' direction?

    How will the OP feel if they make these sacrifices and the kid gets results in line with their ability?

    • 

      Scrooge McDuck on 15/03/2018 - 16:59

      +3

      How will the OP feel if the son isn't interested in studying Medicine or Law?

      How will the son feel if he is pressured into studying something in which he has no passion?

    • 

      Ryanek on 15/03/2018 - 17:53

      Agreed. It’s all about balance.

• 

  Blitzfx on 15/03/2018 - 12:24

  Private school will normally give you more opportunity and better chances at getting into Uni. For Melbourne Uni, you only need to get into the general stream then branch off into your specialised one, so there's room for your kid to screw up highschool since the bar is lower for entry. For Monash uni, you only really get one chance (unless you want to repeat some highschool subjects).

  It's possible to get good scores in public school but you also have to remember what kind of crowd your kid is likely to hang out with.

  I wouldn't go to just any public highschool either. A lot of my old friends ended up getting shitty scores like <70. Some ended up getting <30 (exact number is unpublished).
  I never knew anyone from private school who did that badly. Most were 70+. Might have to do with who I was friends with.

  Later, I met a few people on Uni scholarships who came from public school, so I think your parenting will be a huge factor in how well your kid does. You can't really go wrong with extra tuition.

  • 

    dasher86 on 15/03/2018 - 12:51

    +1

    private schools also strongly advise kids not to attend if they are below performance around year 10.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 15/03/2018 - 13:23

    In general,How are the teachers and supportung staff in public system?

    • 

      Blitzfx on 15/03/2018 - 13:39

      They're all mostly the same, the difference is the work they put into creating the coursework material after hours and feedback they give to the students. Also the level of engagement is a bit better as well as the teacher's past experience in a private school since they look at that sort of thing when you go apply for a teaching position.

      Public schools usually have less resources and facilities than a private school does. You can thank the Liberals for that.
      For example in science class, you might be learning about electronics and stuff. Every single kid would get a DIY kit for an LED circuit whereas in public, you'd only get taught about it in textbook, with one demo unit in front of the class.

      There's probably more that I never noticed

• 

  salmon123 on 15/03/2018 - 12:26

  How are you checking the academic performance of a school? How much variation is there from year-to-year in the results? Maybe your expectations from the local public school are too high, given that it's already performing better than the catholic school in the area?

  The one option you didn't list was sending your son to the local public school now, saving some cash and paying for a full-fee university course? 6 years of private school is probably a similar cost to 4 years of full-fee university.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 15/03/2018 - 13:26

    Since we are in Victoria, I see the average VCE score and the percentage of students above 40 in VCE. We also do school tours to see the demographics and how they behave in class..

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  tsunamisurfer on 15/03/2018 - 12:36

  +3

  Go with the local public school.

  I am of the belief that the primary determinant of a child's academic success is the child's willingness to learn followed closely by how highly education is held as a household value. If both are high, the child is more likely to succeed regardless of what school they go to.

  If the child is aloof and the parents do not encourage academia, spending $20k a year for a private school won't improve their academic situation.

  Ultimately, this is ozbargain, I value my children's education but $30k a year for 2 for 12 years is not a good way to spend money when I have no assurances they will even adopt higher learning.

  • 

    ihbh on 15/03/2018 - 13:07

    +1

    the child's willingness to learn

    the child's willingness and ability to learn

    Agree with these comments, just expanded for child's capability.

    Say you give him tutoring 24/7 and he rote learns his stuff, in addition to the "good" schools he gets into, and gets into "good" universities and courses. He could still fail these or life in these jobs because basically he faked his way into them. And he might hate it too.

• 

  biozet on 15/03/2018 - 12:44

  It is a really good point to make in these full fee paying days. A pragmatic solution. History might point toward a close link between meritocracy and the rise of nations in international standing …and simarly the link between accepted privilege and institutional favouritism for particular socio-economic groups and a decline in empire/national/ social cohesion.
  As good capitalists we are becoming a nation obsessed with user pay and 'u get what you pay for' . Such an attitude erodes the value of our health and education systems. The division that is being perpetuated in order to create economic opportunity for a few is damaging but of course we should never criticise anyone for making a profit, especially if it maintains social order and perpetuates inequity.
  Losing the sarcasm and getting to the point …nations with no private sector education are world leaders in educational outcomes (not just standardised testing which is another debate entirely)
  Some privates do it better than some states…some states do it better than most privates.
  What's the goal of an education? to know yourself? to cope and negotiate change? to regurgitate content? a little bit of everything? specifics? to be around those from your class? to be around those from a diverse economic or cultural background?
  Big decisions to make…I think your concern and curiosity (willingness to ask here) means you're making a lot of right decisions already with regard to your parenting…therefore with your own teaching of your child.

• 

  mskeggs on 15/03/2018 - 13:07

  Did you consider using a local public school and joining the p&c, doing fund raising, getting involved and otherwise making it a better school for both your child and others?

  How about donating $20k to fund four $5k scholarships for the best and brightest that might attract some top local kids, and help everyone? Probably not, but spending that much year after year at a private school is considered reasonable!
  I bet if you made that commitment, you could find others (and local businesses) to chip in as well.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 15/03/2018 - 22:45

    I am not familiar with p&c so I can't comment on that.

    • 

      mskeggs on 16/03/2018 - 07:40

      It seems crazy to me that you would consider moving house to try and improve your kids schooling, but haven't already done the simple things to improve the school (like volunteering, joining the P&C, fund raising).

      It is like spending thousands on a Volvo for safety, but not wearing a seatbelt.

• 

  toniyellow on 15/03/2018 - 13:31

  +2

  I think a lot of it comes down to the individual kid.

  Some studies show kids who went to public school transition to uni more easily than private school kids, because they gain more independent learning skills. But that sort of obscure the stories of the students that didn't get into uni from public school, and the ones that only got into uni because they had the additional coaching provided by private schools.

  If your child is good at studying independently, they should be fine in public. If they need more direction, it would be understandable to consider other options.

  There are some arguments about developing a social network for life at private schools. But that is probably most relevant to people considering the top tier private. And if your child is attending private and finances are tight, they may feel out of place compared to friends whose families have a lot of spare cash, go on a lot of holidays etc.

  This raises interesting points - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-31/public-vs-private-scho…

• 

  GG57 on 15/03/2018 - 13:40

  Can of worms opened indeed.

  • It appears that your son is still in primary, but it is unclear which year? - that may impact on what you can do now in preparation to get to the preferred secondary school.
  • Will most of the other children in your son's year go to the local public high? - children do make new friends but can be initially stressed in a completely new environment.
  • What aptitudes / strengths / interests does your son have? Probably too early to identify a career path, but a leaning towards science or arts or trade-related skills may help in matching with an appropriate secondary school with those same strengths. A school's VCE results are not the only measure to consider.
  • Are you considering single sex secondary schools, or not bothered? That will determine which secondary schools you want to consider.
  • Some (most) Catholic secondary schools provide for a limited number of non-Catholic students, but competition can be fierce. If your son is Catholic, having partaken in church sacraments can help in entry to the schools, and don't discount the value of a reference from a local priest.

  We all want our children to be a "success", but that word is open to interpretation obviously. Our children went to Catholic single-sex schools, both are well adjusted, have great communities of friends (some from school days), are widely travelled, and have both undertaken post-degree studies, but they may well have achieved similar "success" if they went to the local public high school.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 15/03/2018 - 22:44

    • My son is currently in grade 5, so we have a bit of time to decide, however we need to be ready now for private school.
    • I believe it would be a mix, some will go to public (mostly I guess ) and others will go to private schools.
    • My son likes informational stuff including science, geography and also public speaking.
    • No single sex school. My wife does not believe that at all. So we will go to public or co-ed.
• 

  coin saver on 15/03/2018 - 14:09

  When assessing a high school with high ratings ask and research how many of their high ranking students have been there for more than 2yrs.The amount of poaching that goes on is incredible.The child has been taught to learn elswhere and the new school is reaping the benefits.

• 

  geek001 on 15/03/2018 - 14:58

  +1

  Looks like moving is the most logical choice in your circumstances. Sure, if you put your son is a local school that is not so great, your son may turn out okay. However, I have seen good teachers spending a lot of their time trying to get students in line to learn, rather than doing actual teaching. This is a pity because low school rankings may not mean that the teachers are bad, I think most of the time, it is just that the parents/students don't really care about education as much. I mean let's face it, teachers do not get paid the big bucks. Most teachers that I have seen, they do it because they have passion in some form or another to teach. It is better for you to put your son into a school with like-minded students/parents so that the teachers can focus on teaching rather than disciplining the students.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 15/03/2018 - 22:59

    I agree with you however, it might not practical to move as well. I am currently owning a house (owner mortgage) . It means I need to turn my current home to be an investment property and rent a house. The competition of renting a house in good school neighborhood is fierce.
    Some good schools are expecting you to live in the school zone until graduating from the school if not they have right to ask you to change school :( (* I am not sure whether this is even legal)

• 

  shaybisc on 15/03/2018 - 18:18

  The evidence is "that Catholic and Independent “add value” to students’ tertiary entrance performance in Victoria in terms of higher scores."

  https://theconversation.com/private-catholic-schools-do-add-…

  But I'm shocked that the poor little blighter isn't doing a few hours every day at cram school already. There is nothing like a three-hour math tutorial after school to sharpen young minds.

  We will never catch the Tiger children at this rate.

  • 

    ColonialBoy on 16/03/2018 - 08:58

    I'm a teacher and the article confirms my experience.

    The Australian Capital Territory performs far better than the states. Its system is Primary, Secondary, College. College is run along the lines of American senior high schools with students treated more as adults. The school retention rate is the highest in Australia.

    I do lots of after school tutoring & I'm constantly employed because I get results. I question why I'm needed at all, because I do what the school is supposed to do.

    • 

      biozet on 19/03/2018 - 11:54

      yes lets follow the American education system. and their health system. good idea

      • 

        Quantumcat on 26/03/2018 - 11:44

        I went to a college and loved it - called teachers by their first names, treated like an equal, encouraged to question the material. I felt way more engaged in learning there than any other school I went to (it helped that there was a boy smarter than me in my maths class so I suddenly had to work really hard to try to beat him).
        I don't know how American it is but it is a great environment for learning

• 

  dammit on 16/03/2018 - 07:41

  Just wanted to weigh in and say I think you should have regard to where his friends are going. Sure he could make new friends but to me it should be a consideration. Also investigate whether nearby better performing public high schools just require initial proof of evidence of catchment and then you can move out of area after enrolment. This would allow you to do a 12 mth lease in-area and then move back to your family home.

• 

  ColonialBoy on 16/03/2018 - 08:56

  I'm a school teacher & the behaviour at government schools can be appalling. One I worked at had a permanent police officer.

  Bullying can happen at private schools but it tends to be more subtle eg shunning. There can be snobbyness - if the student uses old textbooks or does not have enough money to participate in all activities, students can be ostracised by other students.

  I have seen selective high schools or the top (ie expensive) private high schools produce better outcomes for students.

  Personally I would choose a cheap Catholic school over a government school any day.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 16/03/2018 - 17:32

  The top twelve performing schools in the 2017 HSC. Ten were selective public schools. The two private schools in the twelve came 6th and 9th.

  I have no idea about Victoria but in NSW it's selective all the way if you get in. Plus you will save a fortune.

  • 

    momov3 on 17/03/2018 - 18:05

    There are only 4 selective schools in Victoria, unlike NSW teeming with them.
    2 same sex schools and 2 co ed selective schools. What's this with NSW folk? Don't they want to pay up for quality education unlike the private school parents here? I once asked my nephews and nieces why it was that they were in selective schools when they had wealthy parents and their answer was blunt "Because it's 'free' and our parents don't want to pay." Also notice the one dominant continent/race that seems to makeup a high percentage of selective school enrolment.

    • 

      dasher86 on 20/03/2018 - 08:55

      +2

      Australians?

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  Pentanol on 13/05/2018 - 12:54

  If your kids go to private schools or selective high schools they will not have any issues getting a job. Just think about the "networking" effect. The parents are all highly skilled professionals who can afford the fee which means that any friends your kid makes there most likely doesn't matter and their parents will likely help you get the job they want through their references. If the parents can't help you then they will always have a contact. There is less chance of this happening and also the likelihood of befriending a bad influence is higher that may derail your kid's future prospects. This is likely to be minimal in primary school so your best bet is to save money by going to public school until high school so they can form lasting friendships during high school that will set them up for the rest of their lives.