NBN Speeds: How Much Does LAN Equipment Really Matter?

muwu on 27/02/2018 - 22:23
Last edited 27/02/2018 - 23:43 by 1 other user

I wanted to ask this to the OzB community, because it feels like there's a good group of people here that know a lot about delivering better internet speeds, specifically as it relates to ISPs and routers.

So I have no formal IT education; I built a PC for the first time last year; now I'm looking at improving my internet speeds coming from a non-existent knowledge base…

And I'm so confused.

To illustrate my point: For a while now I've been looking at download speeds on various programs/apps (e.g. Steam), and seeing 2.5 MBps and thinking "damn that's slow, how do people get 100 mbps!?" And that (now deliberate) use of the capital and non-capital "B" was my big lesson today, an epiphany: there is a difference between bits and bytes, bytes is data/storage (2.5MB per second) and bits is speed (20mbps), where a factor of 8 is the difference. So of course being on a 25/5 NBN plan, the 20mbps is okay.

My set-up:
Ryzen 5 1600 / 16GB RAM / 1060 6GB / 250GB SSD + 1TB HDD
Ethernet connection, Cat-6 cable, approximately 10-15m length
Router is Telstra rental, Technicolor tg797n v3 (I think it's 802.11n and dual-band, but I haven't been able to confirm that)
Modem installed by Telstra, unlimited 25/5 NBN plan
FTTP

I would say the bottle-neck is the plan speed. Increasing that to 100/40 would be the best thing to improve speeds. Is that correct?

My next question would be (as per the title), will anything else, that is in my local area network, actually make a difference to speeds if improved?

I've been trying to learn about routers… I'm so confused despite half a day of reading:

Does being Ethernet-connected directly to my router mean that the capabilities of the router itself makes little difference, as a router's capabilities relates to the strength and fidelity and speed of a wireless (Wi-Fi) connection?

It sounds to me like most of these middle-to-high end routers out there (AUD ~$300-400) are referring to achievable speeds in the order of 100s or even 1000s of mbps. What's the point of a router that can deliver >100mbps in your LAN if the ISP is delivering up to 100mbps only? The only answer I can think of is future-proofing? And maybe some other benefits, like using 5GHz to reduce interference, more powerful range, other functionalities.

The conclusion I'm coming to from reading, as it relates to routers and speed, is that a router that is at least 802.11n and AC1200 (preferably dual-band) is all you really need, a better router won't deliver faster speeds. And that kind of router is going to be relatively inexpensive.

Sorry for the verbal diarrhea, this is probably the most confusing tech-stuff I've tried to learn about (and I'm feeble-minded). Any help would be amazing…

TLDR: Does an expensive router make any difference to internet speeds in Australia when our ISPs deliver up to a max of only 100mbps?

• 

  follow on 27/02/2018 - 22:30

  a router doesn't increase speed. i bielieve the high figures shown on the router is for when multiple devices are connected on the network. your theoretical max dl on a 25mbps plan is 2.75 megabytes. so u good boii

  • 

    muwu on 27/02/2018 - 22:32

    Right - so it's more a question of capacity rather than speed. Like you'll need something better like an AC1900 or AC3200 if you have dozens of appliances, but the speed will be the same as an AC1200.

    • 

      follow on 27/02/2018 - 23:22

      Yep

    • 

      AlienC on 28/02/2018 - 05:23

      Pretty much this.

      Faster routers are mainly for streaming media to other parts of the house locally.. like say large photos or videos or movies etc.

      Usually big households.

• 

  D C on 27/02/2018 - 22:44

  where a factor of 8 is the difference.

  More like 10 once overheads are factored in. Even more in reality.

  The main point of the 1Gb speed is for local transfers, one PC to another or to a NAS etc.

  As we all know the NBN will be upgraded to 1GB speeds shortly, just like it is in other civilised countries so your high-speed router will come in handy then.

  The real bottlenecks are how fast the site can send you data, local congestion, and dogs peeing on the local copper. Ain't much you can do about that.

  • 

    muwu on 27/02/2018 - 23:05

    Are 1GBps speeds still planned?

    I haven't followed the NBN too closely - I thought 1GBps was the end-goal by 2021 originally made in 2009 under Labor when estimates started at $41-bil, but then costs/delays blew out and the business model is forever unprofitable, which eventually came to light with change of government and losses were minimized by switching from FTTP to FTTN.

    • 

      D C on 27/02/2018 - 23:13

      Are 1GBps speeds still planned?

      Still? Lol.

      • 

        muwu on 27/02/2018 - 23:23

        I read that we already have the infrastructure for a subset of properties (all fiber FTTP, I presume) that is capable of 1Gbps speeds, but there's no retail demand for it/not offered by ISPs since it's difficult to imagine a household using a substantive portion of that speed (maybe large businesses, I dunno).

      • 

        Axelstrife on 27/02/2018 - 23:27

        @FatPenguin: FTTP IS capable of 1Gbps Myrepublic has prove so with their offering of it in a single location See here

      • 

        D C on 27/02/2018 - 23:34

        @FatPenguin:

        we already have the infrastructure for a subset

        A very small subset. The backbone is easily capable of that speed, and while fibre certainly is the connected hardware rarely is.

        since it's difficult to imagine a household using a substantive portion of that speed

        You've no imagination, you should be the Communications minister. Mum & Dad both watching movies, one kid watching YouTube while the other stream a game, all at 8K video. Bloke next door video-editing with his files stored in the cloud, y'know, like Google docs but for movies and stuff. Or even Office 365 for database stuff.

        We'll just have to resign ourselves that for the next 20 years most of us aren't going to get much better than ADSL speed (20Mbs-ish).

      • 

        muwu on 27/02/2018 - 23:43

        @D C:

        I imagine that hypothetical is not occurring now (or would be very rare). So how far in the future would that start becoming common-place - 5 years, 10 years, 20 years? It sounds like NBN co have always said the infrastructure can be added to in the future with additional investment. But then that's countered by people who say it mightn't be simple to make those upgrades, or ultimately more expensive. And how much stomach will a future government have for making another investment since this current project has incurred such a mammoth public debt and can never turn a profit.

        Anyway, that's just politics…

      • 

        D C on 28/02/2018 - 00:36

        +1

        @FatPenguin:

        So how far in the future would that start becoming common-place

        Why build a road when there are no houses?

        Your comment has been said before every infrastructure update ever. Remember copper? Designed for analog handsets, the wires mostly remained but the hardware changed and upgraded so we got telexes, faxes, 110 bauds modems and then even faster modems and then ADSL.

        Fibre would have been the same. The initial roll-out is expensive, but upgrading is astonishingly cheap because the hardware needed (routers etc) becomes cheap. Free if you wait long enough. The NBN should have been 100mbs everywhere initially and the later 1Gb \ 10Gb \ 100Gb upgrades would have cost practically nothing.

      • 

        mattyman on 28/02/2018 - 12:35

        +1

        @FatPenguin: Infrastructure projects aren't supposed to turn a profit. They are supposed to enable services to use them and people to use those services. These are then taxed and the government gets money that way. Unfortunately it is difficult to directly link "taxes" and "new infrastructure" to each other.

        We've already seen what happens when infrastructure is sold off in this country with Telstra. That was a mistake and should never happen again. The Liberal Party just wants to sell everything off so that they can maintain their alternative fact that they are the best economic managers.

• 

  Axelstrife on 27/02/2018 - 23:15

  If you want faster speeds just upgrade to 100/40
  https://i.imgur.com/PAHHBqc.png
  This is what i download at on steam.

  • 

    muwu on 27/02/2018 - 23:19

    Nice.

    What router you use? Why?

    • 

      Axelstrife on 27/02/2018 - 23:21

      I have my PC and PS4 connected via Ethernet at all times.
      but for everything else I use my Asus RT-AC68U it's a fantastic router ive never had a single issue with it.

      • 

        muwu on 27/02/2018 - 23:26

        Did you pay any attention to it being AC1900 and how this differs from other routers?

        Was there any specific that made you get that one? Or just a recommendation / seemed like a good one?

      • 

        Axelstrife on 27/02/2018 - 23:30

        @FatPenguin: Good wifi range as well as literally every place i went this was recommended.
        I bought it about two years ago now.

        Is there anything specific you want in a router?

      • 

        muwu on 27/02/2018 - 23:31

        @Axelstrife:

        Speed.
        Option for 5GHz band.

      • 

        Axelstrife on 27/02/2018 - 23:57

        @FatPenguin:Unless you intend to do lots of Large data transfers on your home network (NOT over the internet) then you dont need the best router.

      • 

        muwu on 28/02/2018 - 00:09

        @Axelstrife:

        Figured. Thanks.

        I'll up my NBN plan. Might be good to replace my router at this point in time, I've had this one for a long time (and think it's just a rental); might pick something mid-range, like dual-band, AC1900 (or more), 802.11ac. Probably sounds like what you've got, thanks for the recommendation.

      • 

        Diji1 on 28/02/2018 - 00:49

        @Axelstrife: >then you dont need the best router.

        Depends what your doing.

        My experience has been that Telstra's devices cannot deliver 100/2.5 internet for one user when used as a router for 1 device.

        The AC-68 / R7000 is a good way to get that speed.

      • 

        Axelstrife on 28/02/2018 - 01:55

        @Diji1: Telstra must provide extremely bad devices then.
        I have a router from Iprimus, TPG and Myrepublic and all of them are capable of full NBN speeds over wifi they just have worse wifi range compared to my Asus router.

      • 

        donnot on 28/02/2018 - 02:05

        @Axelstrife:

        My >2 year old Telstra Gateway Max can comfortably handle well over 100mbps wirelessly, average range though as with other ISP provided stuff.

• 

  donnot on 28/02/2018 - 02:09

  If you're with Telstra, it may be worth checking if you can be upgraded to the new "Smart Modem" since you're on such an old model. Same general hardware as the Gateway Frontier (which has alright feedback on Whirlpool) and a 4G fall-back.

  • 

    muwu on 28/02/2018 - 08:21

    So that will provide 4G connection whenever the broadband fails?

    I have to say, I can't remember the last time my broadband cut out with Telstra…

    But otherwise, the modem shouldn't impact on speeds? Do people pick their own modems?

    • 

      donnot on 28/02/2018 - 12:47

      Hardly worth it with your current connection at 25mbps, if you're happy with the wireless performance. Maybe if you were on the 100/40 tier and reaching speeds close to that it could be justifiable.

      You're on FTTP (lucky!) so you'd only be making use of the 'router' - no modem. Another note - you may be able to be upgraded to the Standard plus evening speed on Telstra for free (they offered it to me), which gives you 50/20. A lot of providers (including Telstra) are now offering 50/20 as the base, as NBNCo has recently dropped the pricing of that tier.

      • 

        muwu on 28/02/2018 - 16:43

        Yeh, I saw that post, and commented a bit then.

        I called and online chatted on the weekend to ask for the 50/20 upgrade. None of the operators seemed to know about it. I note the guy who posted it had a large bundled plan, whereas mine is medium. Then someone else in the comments said there was a staged upgrade occurring up to the end of April, so maybe later?

• 

  [Deactivated] on 28/02/2018 - 06:54

  I get around 90-98mbps on a wifi connection on nbn

• 

  ESEMCE on 28/02/2018 - 07:51

  +2

  The capacity of your router is important for managing connections.
  If you have a large number of users and/or you are multi-threading a download (ie a torrent), then a better router will manage more threads and your connection will be utilised to the max.
  This is doubly important if you are sharing files locally, this might include using WiFi security cameras. Any traffic on your Local network (LAN) must pass through the router to get to the destination device.

  WiFi is but one portion of the LAN, but can be a bottleneck. It is shared, so the more devices you connect, the slower the overall speed.
  This is offset a little if you have dual band and use the second band where possible.
  Use Wired connections where possible.

  You also need to be conscious of noise caused by neighboring WiFi hotspots. If you're broadcasting on the same channel as a neighbor and their signal is strong enough to detect, then it will be causing interference and reduced speed and range in your WiFi network.
  Use a WiFi scanner app on your smartphone to easily view what neighborhood WiFi signals you can detect in various points in your home.

  Finally, if you have a large number of WiFi devices, and/or a large home, consider adding a second Access Point. I have 2 AP's, one toward each end of our house. This helps to maximise signal across the house and halves the the load of devices using an access point at any one time.

  • 

    muwu on 28/02/2018 - 08:22

    Thanks. Helpful.

    • 

      ESEMCE on 28/02/2018 - 08:34

      Oh and avoid WiFi Extenders… They do work, but they halve the throughput of your WiFi.
      If you want to spread your WiFi network and don't have Ethernet cabling through your home, use either
      - Ethernet over Powerline (devices that turn the power cables already in your home into data cables) or
      - look for devices that use Mesh like Google WiFi, Linksys Velop or Netgear Orbi. They're expensive, but easy to set up and effective. These use a separate WiFi channel to form the "ethernet" connection back to the router

      • 

        tonyjzx on 01/03/2018 - 14:47

        if you're really pro you can use one router as a wireless bridge to get your data then a 2nd router to set up a 2nd zone but this wont be in the final test