Hi All,
I'm a 30y/o Australian Medical Student from Sydney, have also studied Medical Science.
Happy to answer questions as best I can about Medical Practice / Medical School from the perspective of a Medical Student.
Just to be 100% clear Med Student - Not a Doctor incase you missed it the last three times.
ajGold, what you have written is resonating with me. Thanks for your advice and to be honest (with the wife) I never really thought of it that way but you're 100% correct, I will need to make sure that there is ample give and take.
Someone I know studied Medical Science and then Nursing and now works as a nurse. However they find it boring and would like to do something else in the medical field. Any recommendations on what they could build off of their Medical Science degree? Anything in demand at the moment, or with good remuneration?
Sorry to jump in on this but there are medical software companies looking for people with such clinical experience, and the pay is very good.
Would you happen to have any examples of such jobs that I could show them?
Sure, if you jump on a site like indeed.com.au and search for stuff like the following:
Clinical Applications Specialist
Clinical Product Specialist
Clinical Sales Specialist
EMR Health
etc.
I did medical science specifically to study medicine afterwards as did a number of people in my previous cohort. I wasn't sure where it would take me, I was happy with my job in the Fire Brigade so really had no use for it if I wasn't going to do Medicine afterwards, If I didn't get into medicine I contemplated doing a teaching degree and teaching science casually.
Friends I had who are now working in the field work for a range of different places, some went on to be pharmacists others work in food laboratories, others in cosmetics im not quite sure on the pay.
What Universtiy do you recommend for Medical Science? I am currently doing a Diploma at The College WSU
I studied at WSU and did Medical Science at the Hawkesbury Campus, great facilities, good teachers and plenty of support. I highly recommend the course there, you also have the option to do majors at Penrith, campbelltown or parramatta campus should that be of interest. If you are a high achieving student you can also do Advanced Medical Science offered after the first year.
Sorry this was incorrect, majors at Hakesbury, Campbelltown and Parramatta. Not sure why I wrote penrith
Great Job. We need more doctors.
When did you think about doing medicine?
Childhood dream, young dream, school dream?
I had always been interested in doing Medicine but had other avenues that I wanted to explore first. I probably didn't have the drive to do it straight out of high school and Im glad that I didn't as I was able to experience so much in other career that I otherwise would not have.
Making the decision to actively pursue it was a tough one because it required a big commitment that I wasn't even sure would pay off, I still have a while to go yet but enjoying each step of the way.
whats your best study technique/method/skill? (thats three questions)
Study is hard and everyone has different methods and techniques that work for them. Personally I don't really take notes during lectures, mostly just take down the key topics that are discussed during the lecture, I then read over the lecture notes and write a detailed summary of what was taught. If I don't understand a concept I usually then hit up youtube for videos because normally there are plenty which put ideas into different perspectives.
Prior to exams I read over the summaries I prepared in the months earlier and will make flash cards of things which I have trouble committing to memory to go over whenever I get the chance, this helps with anatomy and subjects like that.
Whenever I can get past papers I will often use them to practice too, although if you have a good understanding of the subject prior to the exam I find this far more helpful than past papers.
You haven't mentioned that you have children so I assume you don't, but do you think someone with a young family could realistically juggle med school/family life?
No children for the next 6 months anyway! You will need a good support network, for me kinds will be tough but we're very lucky that my inlaws are close and are willing to assist.
What really blew my mind was meeting students not far out from graduation who have children themselves, one person in particular stood out as he had 2 children under 4 and his wife was also studying Law full time and were both working part-time and neither of them had family nearby. I asked him how he did it and he just said, "we make it work".
It depends on your drive and motivation, its definitely do-able (IMO)
Wow that is some commitment. I've been contemplating going back to uni with the aim of getting into med school, but with 3 kids under 10, our finances would be stretched to the point (we aren't flush, but definitely not poor) and I know it would put pressure on my marriage and have an effect on my children.
I was thinking of going back to uni once the kid's are in their later stages of high school, but then I'll be bordering on 50…so I guess my follow up question is, how old is too old?
Hey its never too late, I have a friend who's 36 turning 37 this year with 6 KIDS thats 6, SIX kids who is starting medicine this year! She put herself through Med Science to get there. Another guy I know started at the same time I did is in his mid to late 40's. Anything is possible if you put your mind to it, the good part about medicine (i think so anyway) is that the longevity of your career can be as long as you can handle it. Problem is just the duration of the training, you'd be knocking on the door of 60 by the time you finish
why is that whenever I go and see a GP, 9 out of 10 times I would be sent home with "take two Panadols and drink plenty of water"? :)
Perhaps stop going in and asking for oxycodone? Haha just playing.
But on a serious note, do you feel you have a good GP? Perhaps all you did need was a couple of panadol and a glass of water but I have had experiences with a number of bad gp's over the years.
My breaking point was when I went in to see a GP I had been seeing for the last couple of years with an ongoing issue with my hand, he was looking at another patients x-ray throughout the entire consultation, didn't make eye contact with me once, asked if I needed a certificate or more pain killers and sent me on my way.
A few weeks later I made an appointment to see another GP just for a sick note and just mentioned the sore hand,(without going into specifics) he gave me a physical exam, found a lump, ordered an ultrasound following week called me in for an appointment removed the lump and i've never had a problem since. I go to see him all the time, the big difference was I at least now I feel like my GP has an interest in my health and wellbeing.
Lol last time I went home over a year ago she rudely told me I could only ask one thing, told me I was lucky because it was bulk billed so I couldn't complain and when I did ask her to look at my foot that an axe went through years earlier that was giving me grief she basically poked the swelling and said take these anti inflammatory…
Lady needed a shrink…
wow now thats bad and bulk billed doesn't make it free, you pay your taxes (I assume).
Have you ever seen 2 girls 1 cup?
I shall now ask this to all ama threads.
Haha, yes
Can you solve? If so what is the answer?
A''Sin(5x) + A'Cos(5x) + 2ASin(5x) = 10sin(5x):
Assuming A is a constant:
If A != 5, x = k*(pi/5) where k is an integer.
If A = 5, then any value of x is a solution.
2 + 2 = 4 - 1 thats 3 ..
@DrSyd
Correct have a lollipop 🍭.
@synergy
Impressive attempt for a person majoring in computer science. However, that answer is not the particular solution to this problem.
puns rule.
I'm not majoring in computer science.
Dam!
The usage of != and the average skills in mathematics seemed to indicate you are in a computer related field…
Oh well guess you cannot win them all.
Compared to the general public.
That stated if you correctly solve the question above than I would say you would have above average math skills.
So until that happens than yes your mathematical skills are average.
Is A a function with A'' being second derivative and A' first?
Man haven't done calculus in 10+ years. Not sure I could have solved this problem back then though. Looks like it needs more than high school lv
Correct the question is a DE.
who would win a fight between a hemoglobin and the green goblin
How often do you shower?
Insights from a PGY2 Baby Doctor ( 2 years out of Med School)
all I can say to that is (profanity) hell!!!
Your previous comment history states you were in 4th year medical school in 2016 out of a five year course, which would mean at best you would be only two weeks into being a doctor now.. How can you be PGY2?
Besides, currenrt PGY2s are not "two years out", they're actually only 1 year and two weeks in.
Edit: and for what it's worth I disagree that what you have "experienced" is in any way universal or standard
Here we go, a comment history sherlock, more interested in minor details than the valuable information that was posted. The Mr's and I share the account. I would have posted that on her behalf but being the crappy husband that I am must have written 4th instead of 5th. She's right next to me and just told me this information. If you want I can send you a photo of my hospital ID. I don't mind - come and visit me at John Hunter.
Sure send the ID, or post it here
Edit: nothing posted. Of course. Because it doesn't exist?
"have almost finished my degree being in my 4th year (out of 5)" in 2016 sounds pretty clear to me
@gishgamesh: You're right Sherlock, the whole post was a lie, I actually work part-time at McDonalds. Just wanted to plan and construct years of posts to finally feel valuable. Thank you for helping me see the light. I <3 Gishgamesh
I'd be careful giving to much personal detail. John Hunter is a big hospital but everyone know everyone to a certain extent.
Incredible, almost lost for words… And PGY2 so this is recent, this is the sort of behaviour I would have expected "back in the day" when these sort of things were swept under the rug, I am amazed to hear that these things still go on. 7 is almost unbelievable, 5 is just ,.. I don't even know what to say.
From your stories it would appear that hospitals are fostering a culture of workplace bullying and harassment, something I would not expect from professionals whom have such an inherit trust from the public especially in this day and age.
Thanks for taking the time to write that down and sharing your experiences, I would be interested to see if any other doctors have had a similar experience.
Med is stuck in the 80's. Almost everything here happened as an student too. What an impression. You're right on the money with the culture of workplace bullying assessment. The rate of suicide for medical students is so high there was 3 in the five years I was there. http://www.smh.com.au/national/health/suicide-in-the-medical…
My impression is that this experienced by a significant proportion of health care workers.
I think major metropolitan hospitals are improving as they have more choice over who they employ but as you go more peripheral and definitely rural you unfortunately end up with odd personalities as no-one else wants to work in these areas.
I have also heard of senior doctors getting official warnings about such misconduct and bullying. However, unfortunately my impression is that the punishment is often lacking and if you make complaints your life becomes difficult.
not sure why this earned itself a downvote
Ozbargain is has its few clowns.
regarding 6: can i respectfully suggest that your attitude towards nurses is more of a problem than vice versa? i don't consider that a doctor is a nurse's boss. we are a team working together and especially at your stage of training have a lot to learn from senior nursing staff. a little humility goes a long way
regarding 5: if DRE wasnt clinically indicated than that is a clear breach of consent at best and assault at worst and an AHPRA reportable offence. you should have refused to do this and raised your concerns with your DPET
I agree!
Thank you gishamesh your input is so appreciated as always.
No! When I said "essentially their boss" I was trying to make it easy for most people to understand how absurd the concept is. We are a team and if anything most nurses know far more than I do. Nurse are instructed to take direction from the Doctors even ones with no real experience. This was something I struggled with as I felt incapable of making any decision that the advanced nurse could have made and most likely have made better.
In hind sight that would have been the right thing to do but as a 22 year old student who was used to inappropriate behaviour and just trying to make it through facing clinical depression it was the last thing on my mind.
my apologies then if i have misinterpreted your comment. that is indeed a very challenging situation and you always seem wiser in hindsight
There is a good reason why a junior doctor is given authority over nurses, even senior nurses. This isn't some form of arbitrary feel good hierarchy.
Doctors are ultimately responsible and liable for the patient outcome. The argument that a senior nurse was present and took charge is not going to supercede a doctor's oversight/negligence/malpractice.
A doctor is assumed more qualified as they have objectively passed more hurdles proving so. A nurse of 10 years may not necessarily know anything if they had a bad attitude. A fresh graduate will still have some memory of their training. The doctor has to have passed their exams. Nurses picking up skills in the hospital aren't formally tested.
A nurse's decision making comes from a limited view, mainly first hand experiences. As a doctor, the professional views should be from studies of sample sizes much larger. Never forget your hierarchy of evidence.
Some doctors retreat into the comfort of relinquishing responsibility and surrendering authority. It's very tempting for a new grad to do that out of social pressure from nurses and the sense of being overwhelmed.
Ps. I'm not advocating for mistreating nurses or being cocky. I have never once called a nurse my staff. They are always addressed before the patient and always as a team member. I always remain the team leader.
@tshow: Tshow, are you a doctor? If so can I ask what field of medicine do you work in?
Also you raise some very valid points, I have a lot of friends and family that are nurses and in most cases from the conversations I have had with them, they would agree with the points you have raised.
@DrSyd:
I'm glad my points resonate well with you.
I prefer my anonymity and revealing my field may narrow down my identity.
@tshow:
I think you might be confusing the issues here. Nobody is suggesting that nurses are there to make clinical decisions, merely that we are all part of the team in addressing a patient's issue. The doctor's role is to make a clinical plan which is carried out by allied health - this includes nurses, physios, OTs etc. Whilst you can be the leader of that clinical team at times (and that is not always a given), you are not 'given authority' over anyone and a nurse's boss is definitely not the JMO but rather their NUM. the hierarchial mindset is what can impede a cohesive team working relationship.
I'm not confused.
If I ordered a procedure and a nurse refused to cooperate, the nurse will be questioned and likely fired. I will still be liable for the patient as it is still my responsibility to ensure my patient has received care.
If I ordered a procedure and a nurse overlooked it, the nurse will be questioned and I may be fired for not ensuring the nurse is adequately briefed. It is still my responsibility the patient has received care.
If I forgot to order a procedure and the nurse didn't think to remind me, the nurse goes on with their day and I'll be facing the AMA and likely to be suspended for a period and resume on a conditional registration. My career may essentially be over.
So I disagree. I may not be the nurses employer (aka boss) but I certainly have authority over the nurses. With that authority, I accept all responsibility and liability ends with me. Double edged sword.
Ps. For the doctors reading this, never forget this. If you're ever confused, just remember, the AMA and your insurance isn't.
@tshow:
your perspective is obviously different from a medicolegal standpoint, as i presume a more senior clinician, and do i dare say, not as relevant for OP.
like i said previously nobody is disputing that the clinican holds the ultimate liability for clinical decisions. what am i am trying to impart upon junior doctors in their early stages of training is to avoid looking down on allied health as lackeys there to do their bidding without question. accept that you have your own roles to play in the clinical team, treat them as equals and accept you have plenty to learn from each other. that type of attitude will get you far into your training and build your reputation which is far more important than an audit or two when you are applying for competitive training posts later on
@xbai:
I completely agree with respect. The window cleaner is addressed by first name and I am addressed by my first.
I believe where our ideology diverges is when it is a junior doctor in relation to ancillary members. I still hold the JMO in higher authority because it is his/her ass on the line.
Every legitimate member of the team - janitor, orderly, surgeon… They should all be addressed with respect. A patient doesn't want the sloppy disillusioned janitor to clean their room nor the clumsy orderly to touch them. Respect at every level translates to confidence at every level.
Snake oil peddlers do not apply.
@tshow: This is why it is important to work as a team for the patient's benefit and not as individuals. Otherwise it all falls apart because none of us are perfect "swiss cheese model". This applies to all fields e.g. aviation, engineering etc.
This guy actually talks truth about the field. No baloney here
The relationship with nurses is one of the most difficult parts. 1 year out of Uni with almost no knowledge and you're essentially their boss. As a female I would have thought that the Nurses would take admiration towards my position, only to think it's great that more women are becoming Doctors, a position that was once male orientated. However, this is not the case at all. The male Doctors seem to charm them and we are often challenged with getting information or directing them to perform tasks. Speaking with more senior female staff they feel the same way.
Wow, I'm surprised that a PGY2 would think this way. Granted, the RMO year just started so really PGY1+ a few weeks. Anyway, I tell all my med students and RMO's this: Nurses are not your underlings. They don't admire you automatically because you're a doctor. It always pays to have them on your side and a velvet glove will get you further than an iron fist.
Listen to the nurses, but at the same time, take their opinion with a grain of salt. Treat them with respect like you would a college and your life will be easier. Never pick fights with the nurses, especially the NUM or shift co-ordinator, unless your senior has your back or you will loose. Sometimes it pays to collect your own bloods, do your own ECG's, weigh the patient yourself if they're busy.
And lastly, unfortunately, as a female junior doctor, some of the female nurses are just going to treat you like dirt. There's a few theories why, but I won't voice them here as they're unfounded and slightly sexist. Unfortunately your relationship with them is going to start poorly and though it's totally unfair, it's up to you to make up for their inherent bias.
On an aside, to all those sitting the FRACP written this Monday, best of luck!
Jesus christ imagine going to work and getting peed on. That said there's a surgeon in south/east melbourne well known for throwing scalpels and other implements at staff in theatre. It's ridiculous that nothing happens to these people but a peds reg in the UK loses her registration and goes to jail because her consultant decided to not see a kid with a pH of 7.084 and a lactate of 11.4
Have you ever eaten cake in the shower?
these are the questions the public deserve to know!
I noticed the good Doc hasn't answered the question!! Obviously he has not learn't the importance of good bedside manners!
of course!
Where do babies come from?
In your opinion was medical science the only path into medicine school?
What was your reasoning for medical school over dentistry?
No not the only path but it definitely helps, I mostly did it to get a taste of the content that would be taught in medicine as there is some crossover between the two.
I have never had interest in dentistry so that was something I never considered.
There are plenty of doctors out there who came from completely unrelated fields. Many of my colleagues came from blue collar careers like plumbing, electricians etc and other white collar fields like law.
So whilst med science or any science related degree is useful and will make your early med school life easier, it's not an essential.
IMO dentistry is similar to surgery or other procedural disciplines in many ways. Probably you don't get the same diagnostic challenge and variability perhaps.
But dentist pulling out teeth every days is no different to a endoscopist doing scopes every day or surgeon removing gall bladders and appendixes every day.
Hi, I'm currently studying Biomedical Science, and I'm not sure if I can make it to medicine. What preparations did you do to secure yourself a position? I'm not the most intelligent person or the best writer (since GAMSAT tests on your written abilities).
Hey Katx, how far into Biomed are you? Its tough if you can achieve a good GPA this will help you with your application, Im not sure on the weighting but I understand ATAR/GPA/GAMSAT can be weighted equally? Im really out of the loop with this these days.
I really put in the hard yards in med sci to get a good enough GPA, I think that made all the difference. I understand your concerns RE GAMSAT my only advice is practice and practice, you will become better over time.
I'm about to enter my 2nd year of uni. Currently I'm sitting on a WAM of credit average. Thank you for your advice, I will try to put more effort into my degree.
If you're getting through biomed then you're hardly a dunce. If you apply yourself and are willing to broaden your look for potential medical schools, then you can get in and you can definitely make it through med school. Work your buns off and get a good GPA. Do your best in GAMSAT. Apply everywhere. If you're extra keen consider doing UMAT (which is closer to an IQ test and in my experience doesn't really require any preparation or study) and apply for undergraduate medical schools all over the country. Move to Townsville if you have to.
Hey Katx, just wanted to let you know my experience. I came out of highschool now knowing what I wanted to do so I decided to do commerce like all my friends. I was only getting credit average WAM in that course. During that first year I realised what I wanted to do in life and I wanted to change courses only to realise my WAM wasn't sufficient enough.
I was quite determined, so I decided to switch to an entirely different course (after a year of commerce) and took a gamble and selected classes which I thought would give me high marks. It paid off cause my WAM was higher than my previous course (during the first year). The same year I did well in UMAT and I finally managed swtich to get into the course I wanted.
The way I did it was really a gamble, but I was really determined. In the end it took me two years switching around courses to get to the course I wanted to get in, but it was worth it :)
Who was the best Star Trek doctor?
Does your parents expect you to answer every medical related queries they received from all your relatives?
My dad smashes me with questions, all these medical problems I had no idea about have come out of the woodwork. What surprised me was his reluctancy to go and see a doctor, I keep telling him to just go see his doctor.
How do you look at yourself in the mirror?
with my eyes
I would like to ask why are many doctors so narrow minded?
I have traveled to many countries over the past 5 years and during this time I had begun to feel sicker and sicker with many small underlying problems. I strongly suspected I had contracted a parasite from overseas but this was always dismissed when I raised it with the many doctors I saw. I took herbal remedies from a naturopath and subsequently saw parasites in my stool. This was also strongly dismissed by any GP I saw and was told it was nothing more than quackery. Well anyway I demanded to be BLOOD tested not stool tested for a number of parasites which I researched and thus managed to convince a doctor to get me tested. I tested positive (serum and urine) for Bilzhara and entamoeba and have since been treated for these with prescription drugs which have been successful. Why is it so difficult to get a doctor to test you for international parasites? There are probably many others in the same situation who have no idea they have contracted a parasite and will live with the debilitating symptoms for the rest of their life. I highly respect the work that doctors do but I am really disappointed that this area is often overlooked.
Apologies to DrSyd for hijacking. I believe he may have a better response. I think the question is fairly open so I'll add my humble pennies.
Doctors are still human - I mean this in two ways.
Humans have a limit to their knowledge and motivation. I have met GPs with such passion for their vocation and I have met others on the other end of that spectrum. Within the group of highly motivated doctors, there will be some more familiar with particular aspects than others. There's literally too much for one person to know everything.
Humans form habits. Soft pharmaceutical statistic - Most GPs will end up writing only four different medications to make up 99% of their prescriptions. Soft diagnostic statistic - most GPs will default to two diagnoses when they are stumped.
If I were a frequent traveller and I do go off path, I would be looking for a motivated GP who does the same.
To look for a good GP, ask a veteran (not vetenarian) pharmacist. That mate who recommended that GP they saw that one time isn't a valid qualifier for quality.
IMO, Someone who got 'proper' med training in third world countries and is a motivated person is far superior than most you would come across in western world. Its just because of the sheer volume of crazy cases they would have encountered.
Most senior academics (I know) will tell you why third world country training can never translate to what we have here - it is the appreciation for evidence.
As much as I'd like to think that the doctor from South India has seen and cured all forms of ailments conceivable, a lot of it is misdiagnosis and placebos. Without access to career stats and professional stats, self reflection cannot happen.
Practice does not make perfect, practice makes habit. Reflection makes perfection.
Tropical diseases are encountered rarely in Australia, and aren't taught in medical school nor in specialist training.
Doctors however should always be suspicious, especially with your travel history.
Congrats for pushing for further testing.
In short, because you caught an unusual foreign infection and not every doctor is knowledgeable in every illness. I'd be pretty bloody impressed for a GP to nail the diagnosis of Schistosomiasis (guessing thats what you're referring to, Bilharzia) particularly with a normal stool OCP. I doubt I would have made it without contacting my Infectious Disease colleagues. Probably a bit easier with a more specific travel history so you can actually test for it.
The other thing is that common things occur commonly. While schistosomiasis is a common infection globally, it is not in Australia even in returned travelers. The typical symptoms someone would walk in with, parasites aren't likely to be on the top of the differentials. eg, if an Australian comes in with blood in their stool and feeling vaguely unwell, I'm probably more worried about bowel cancer or inflammatory bowel disease (which one depending on their age and family history) than I am about foreign parasites.
I don't think its fair to say that they're 'narrow minded' in that situation. Every doctor isn't a specialist in Infectious Disease or Travel Medicine. It's not remotely plausible to know everything particularly with the pace of medical development these days.
One thing I'd suggest is that doctor shopping around for someone to correctly diagnose you means that they're starting from scratch each time, rather than having your records, and recent history to aid their diagnosis. If your GP is genuinely rubbish then fair enough, seek help elsewhere. But if there is something a bit complex going on in you and they haven't solved it in a single visit they aren't necessarily incompetent and having return visits so they can keep investigating is probably more beneficial than seeing 5 people until one does the blood test you want.
I agree that I cannot expect a doctor to be knowledgeable in every disease and illness imaginable, that is unrealistic. However in this instance I specifically asked to be tested for this parasite as I suspected I had contracted it from specific countries where it is very common. Smarttraveller.gov.au lists Schistosomiasis as a risk on their website for some of the countries I have visited. My issue was that no one wanted to send me for the blood test. I was sent for numerous stool tests however it is very unlikely that eggs are found in the stool so I repeatedly tested false negative. I was happy to pay for the tests myself.
It's probably worth going back to Asia/Africa to get treated by local doctors who have extensive knowledge with local parasites. I have a lot of friends who have also traveled extensively and for prolonged periods who are also battling unexplained sickness since returning back to Australia.
I think seeing a GP who does travel medicine is probably more useful. Or a referral onto an infectious disease clinic.
Have you learnt that thing yet where you can flick on a stiffy and the penis loses the chubby and goes flacid. How do you think that will help you in life.
Yep, I'm the husband of a fellowed GP. We're in our 30's with small kids. Following my own allied health background, I've had a career in medical IT up until the end of last year.
I think there are two things that are important to recognise. Your partner needs to understand what being a doctor means for you, and what life for a doctor looks like after all the initial training. There may be an expectation that once the initial training is done it's just a case of you going to work at a clinic and making money. In the case of GP (a good one anyway), it actually consists of a lot of ongoing (often unpaid) extended and after-hours activities as mentioned above. Essentially, you're taking on an additional life-long relationship!
For you, my advice would be to recognise that your partner is enabling you to attend and do everything you need in order to be successful. That is a sacrifice of time. If they are aspirational, you need to somehow give some time back for them to pursue their dreams or hobbies too. Don't overload yourself with medical commitments; make sure you set aside time to commit to your family because, when kids come along, things get extra complicated!