New Weight Loss Drug SAXENDA

Joe Sixpack on 11/02/2018 - 08:56
Last edited 17/02/2018 - 08:08

I'm taking the new weight loss drug Saxenda. Already down 7kg after 1.5 months. Is anyone else taking it, and what are your experiences?

Note: this is a focused thread about Saxenda, not about:

How you think Saxenda is a scam
How you lost weight using a low carb diet
How you think this is a MLM effort
What you feel about obesity and dieting generally.

Thanks!

Edit: please note, I am not affiliated with any drug or drug company and I do not receive payment for discussing my weight or Saxenda (I wish I did!)

Health & Beauty

Comments

  • coupeborgward on 14/02/2018 - 10:20
    +1

    Best diet is really: put less food in your mouth. It always works. amazing

  • syousef on 14/02/2018 - 10:26
    +1

    I have previously posted a lot of links that show the entire fat = calories out - calories in thing is complete nonsense. If it worked that way the difference between extremely fat and extremely thin would be a single potato chip a day. Your body isn't a closed system and the 2nd law of thermodynamics doesn't work when you have other inputs like air and water that have no calories.

    Don't think air and water can make a difference? A tree trunk is mostly carbon extracted from the air. (No, I'm not implying humans are trees, just demonstrating that a living thing can use air and water to add bulk).

    Most people require some healthy eating to maintain a reasonable body weight. But some people need a lot more than that. Some people have a hunger drive that doesn't quit and cravings and addictions that make simple will power unsustainable. Some have medical issues - both physical and psychological - that prevent exercise.

    To start with Google the BBC documentary "Why are fat people not thin?" and TED talk by Dr Peter Attia "Is the obesity crisis hiding a bigger problem?"

    But facing reality doesn't allow you to sell pills, potions, exercise gear, gym membership, weight loss surgery, crappy TV dinners disguised as meal clubs, support groups, planners. There is literally an industry built around things that have been proven ineffective in the long term. Some work temporarily and can give some benefit taking pressure off your body for a couple of years that way. But very VERY few people are able to maintain weight loss and the heavier you are to start with the harder it gets. The stats on the obese losing weight are depressing. And no it's not just weakness of will. Blaming and bullying people fixes nothing.

    Now watch me get modded down and told it's not true. Predictable.

    • Joe Sixpack on 14/02/2018 - 11:10
      -1

      Saxenda is, as you say, a temporary fix and once the weight is lost, it's all down to maintaining the new lower weight, which for many people seems impossible.

      I do believe I have a better than average chance of maintaining the loss though:

      1. I was slim for 40 years, so my set point is low
      2. I habitually count calories with my wife's assistance
      3. the factors that made me fat (injury, severe stress) have gone from my life

      YMMV

      • syousef on 14/02/2018 - 11:23

        Good for you if you've beaten the odds.

        Here's a look at those oods that might shock.
        https://www.sciencealert.com/odds-of-an-obese-person-attaini…

        "Out of the 278,982 people studied, just 1,283 men and 2,245 women managed to attain a normal body weight for their heights, which is incredibly low. The results also show that high fluctuations of weight were present in a third of the patients, which suggests those who were trying to lose weight struggled to keep it consistent. "

        • Joe Sixpack on 14/02/2018 - 11:41
          -2

          That's a depressing study, but intuitively seems wrong. I know several people who have lost weight and kept it off, and if the odds are 1 in 210 that would not be possible.

        • syousef on 14/02/2018 - 11:58
          +3

          @Joe Sixpack:

          Anecdotes aren't evidence. And we're talking about a 10 year study. Your intuition isn't helpful here. When you've got a sample size of half that 278,982 people, we can talk. Nor is this the only study showing the odds are awful.

          You may be selecting for the successful (i.e. ignoring those who tried but failed, many of which you might not have talked to), you may be overly generous with what constitutes successful long term weight loss, or you may be following them for a short time, or any combination of the above or other errors. The human mind doesn't do statistics intuitively.

        • Joe Sixpack on 14/02/2018 - 12:15
          -1

          @syousef:

          A flaw in this study is that it simply looked at who is fat by BMI across a vast number of people and then checked their BMIs again at later date. How many actually tried to lose weight? Not recorded.

        • syousef on 14/02/2018 - 15:47

          @Joe Sixpack:

          Are you mistaken or just making this up?

          http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2015.30277…

          "Sample Selection
          …
          A minimum of 3 BMI records per patient was required to estimate weight changes, including weight regain following weight loss. "

        • Joe Sixpack on 14/02/2018 - 17:52
          -1

          @syousef:

          Check the discussion section of the study, where they describe a weakness of the study being that the intention of the patients was not recorded, i.e. it is not known how many were trying to lose weight.

        • syousef on 14/02/2018 - 17:59

          @Joe Sixpack:

          The data they used didn't have that information, and there is no way to quantify it because it's not a binary variable. The participants could have wanted to lose weight but only for 1 year out of 10 for example. It's not necessarily reasonable either: How many non-passive goals have you maintained for an entire decade? So I don't think that's a valid criticism. I think looking at how obese people are treated, you can safely assume most obese people try to lose weight at least once in that time, but again how do you quantify.

          I'd love to see a proper study that large where people's weight loss intentions over time is recorded.

    • DaneD on 14/02/2018 - 14:38
      +3

      It is actually how it works combined with what you eat (eg can't source all your calories from pizza). The problem with your logic is you are looking at the situation for 1 day or 1 event only. Weight gain especially large amounts of weight gain eg. obese is done over a long period of time. You don't suddenly wake up one morning 10kg heavier. It is a very gradual process where people gain say 3kg per year of body fat after 3 years you have around 9kg of extra fat 5 years around 15kg of extra fat etc.

      So yes eating more than you expend really is how it works. There are many excuses including medical / physical issues as if they are unable to lose weight. This is completely false. All you need to do is look at countries with minimal availability of food (eg. African nations). No one is walking around that has had 100 calories of rice with 20kg extra body weight it just is not possible. Your body MUST source weight gain from somewhere it can't magically create fat deposits from air or water otherwise starvation would not be possible.

      Moreover, you give an example of water putting on weight. Yes sure, if you have a substantial amount of muscle it will absorb water and you will put on 'weight' however this is just water weight nothing will remain and it will all be expunged if you go through a period of dehydration.

      There are MILLIONS of free resources on the internet you can read which explain how to lose weight. The simple fact is people lack the willpower and accountability to fix the issue because it is super hard and painful. You need to stop making excuses, put a plan into action and get on it. Be accountable, realize it won't happen over night and do what is required. End of story.

      • smashed on 14/02/2018 - 18:11

        You read my mind..

    • syousef on 14/02/2018 - 22:05
      -3

      What a surprise. I've been down modded.

  • trapper on 14/02/2018 - 15:36

    If you want to lose weight all you have to do is eat less, that all.

    You don't need to do any exercise, take any drugs or other supplements.

    If you want to be fit and healthy, well that's a little harder and you will need to eat well and exercise. But losing weight is the simplest thing in the world, just eat less.

    • syousef on 14/02/2018 - 18:01
      -2

      Nope. https://vimeo.com/188835636

      • smashed on 14/02/2018 - 18:10

        I am fairly sure that people who stop eating lose weight and die.

        • syousef on 14/02/2018 - 22:04
          -1

          I'm fairly certain being dead isn't healthy, nor is starving yourself.

          Finding that inbetween is super hard. Watch the video. Or don't. I'm tired of having this same conversation with different people.

        • smashed on 14/02/2018 - 23:18

          @syousef:

          And I spent plenty of semesters at uni discussing nutrition.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 00:58
          -1

          @smashed:

          That's great. You should be able to solve the obesity epidemic in no time then. eye roll. I discuss politics sometimes. I should be able to achieve world peace by year end. And I'm right into physics, so I'll have a warp drive for you by then too.

        • smashed on 15/02/2018 - 07:37
          -2

          @syousef:

          Wow, talk about being up yourself.
          My education counts for nothing because you have a different opinion?
          The government is already doing a good job. They are not a dictatorship though so although products have star ratings and calories plastered everywhere, people continue to eat to excess.

          I haven't watched it but I can guarantee that the people on I'm a celebrity will finish their stint having lost at least 10kgs each. Amazing what happens when you eat less (yet half of them will all say that they tried every diet going).

          www.news.com.au/lifestyle/fitness/weight-loss/how-casey-dono…

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 08:05

          @smashed:

          You think that you have the solution to the world's obesity epidemic and that it's trivially simple, and you refuse to take a look at the information I've provided, yet I'm the one being up myself? OK.

          Well you and your government continue doing that great job and watch the problem get worse while you pat yourself on the back.

          And it isn't about temporary weight loss, so pointing such a temporary weight loss about an idiotic "reality" TV show shows just how completely out of touch you are. It's about maintaining that loss while living a real life - with the pressures of work and family and everything else. Where do you get your relationship advice? Married at First Site? The Farmer Wants a Wife?

          Look up Dunning-Kruger. OH sorry I forgot you don't need to look up anything because you already know everything there is to know because you've spent semesters at uni cementing your own misconceptions. Oh sorry am I being dismissive of your "education"?

          You don't have a weight problem and you're looking down from on high spouting nonsense. I have news for you: It isn't because you are a wonderful human being with amazing will power and everyone else these days are scum. Ironically your approach to obesity is "Let them eat cake".

        • samfisher5986 on 15/02/2018 - 14:47
          +1

          @smashed:

          Are you a nutritionalist or anything relating to it? If so then I have bad news for you.

          Your education in nutrition counts for nothing special, your opinion is just as valued as anyone else in this country.

          If you are a dietician or have some kind of similar qualification, you are welcome to post it here to prove your credentials.

          I'm not really sure what your opinion is, and I think syousef is wrong about many things.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 20:18

          @samfisher5986:

          If he were qualified he wouldn't just be spouting hyperbole. He'd have backed up his claims with sources.

      • trapper on 15/02/2018 - 18:49

        "Why Are Thin People Not Fat Part I" - They eat less! haha it's not rocket science.

  • smashed on 14/02/2018 - 18:09
    +2

    I haven't read all of this.. But TLDR..

    Your desire for food is greater than your desire to be slim.

    • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 07:59

      That's almost literally true for some, but not in the way that you meant it. Will power is only going to go so far if you can eat a large meal and your body is screaming with hunger pangs 20 minutes later. A person that hasn't experienced this regularly doesn't get it.

      This is like telling an alcoholic that has just fallen off the wagon their desire for alcohol is greater than their desire to be sober. Only with food, you can't give it up altogether. You have to have just a little bit almost every day.

      • DaneD on 15/02/2018 - 09:56

        @syousef

        Firstly, I think you need to look at what these people are eating. Are they eating a ton of vegetables, healthy fats and protein in said meal consumption? If so it is VERY unlikely they are going to be hungry 20 minutes later.

        If they are eating potato chips, pizza, pasta then they are likely to be hungry again later (probably more like 1-2 hours). This is due to blood sugar and insulin - I recommend you look it up. The fact the person experiences 'hunger pangs' later is a direct indication they are not eating the required foods.

        I have heard that argument before and unfortunately the 'food' addiction argument does not hold up. Likely the person is addicted to sugar and like any addiction it can be overcome with willpower and accountability.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 10:32

          No the first thing you need to look at is their drive to eat. I can tell you that I can eat a huge bowl of salad and be starved 20 minutes later. And I can tell you I've passed that on to my young daughter. Ever had a child who has had her fill of healthy food, come back to you 20 minutes later and literally beg and cry to be fed again?

          The food we all eat has plenty of excess energy to increase your weight. It is not just about junk food. For pity sake, take a look at the documentary BBC "Why are thin people not fat?". People who were eating junk food couldn't get fat even when they constantly overate to the point of feeling sick. Others eating healthy and half as many calories couldn't lose weight. The choice of food does make a difference to health, but it's not as huge as you might think with regard to weight. So the next you want to look at is why eating the same thing people's bodies behave differently.

          Here is an anecdote regarding twins:
          https://books.google.com.au/books?id=uKAzqvmw8AMC&pg=PA27&lp…

          Here is a study:
          https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20130227/siblings-d…

          Wish I could remember where I saw the story of the 2 twins who lived on different continents - one with a healthy lifestyle - ate well and excercised - the other smoked and drank. Well the unhealthy one had a heart attack and had surgery which saved him. Talked to his brother and said that the doctors had suggested he also get tested. Much to the shock of the healthy twin, he was carted straight off to surgery.

          And the sugar addiction fad is just completely unscientific BS. Every carb you eat metabolizes to glucose. Table sugar - sucrose - breaks down to glucose easily. Take a look at this if you know any chemistry at all:
          http://www.differencebetween.net/science/differences-between…

          Blaming people is NOT helpful. People have been bullied and fat shamed for decades and the problem is getting worse, not better. Get off your high horse. The reason you don't have a weight problem has nothing to do with your stunning food choices and will power.

        • frostman on 15/02/2018 - 15:02
          +1

          @syousef: OMG look who strikes again.

          And I thought you're a train driver demanding the extra 6% over 4 years for Sydney Train Drivers.
          Your silly argument was that if they quit, no-one would be able to get to work, "hence please give them $95K salaries!."
          Oh..they may as well request a Salary of $260K, because if they quit, people may well just stay home and watch Oprah.

          Speaking of Oprah, you sound like her….you seem to be knowledgeable on almost every aspect.
          Reading your commends above seems like you have a Science degree too, you may also be a Dietitian.

          Back to your topic:

          The reason you don't have a weight problem has nothing to do with your stunning food choices and will power.

          So your argument here is that people that are thin are genetically thin, people who are fat have a predisposition to getting fat so all things equal.
          So let's just close down all the gyms and fitness centres and tell people to perform a lookup on Ancestory.Com to see if they call in the skinny or fat category.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 15:10

          @frostman:

          I think you think you're being clever but reductio ad absurdum and ad hominem are the weakest form of argument, if you can even call it that since both fail to actually address the issue. If anyone is "striking again", it's you ranting about a previous topic that has nothing to do with this one.

          I think we need to be looking for actual solutions and root causes rather than continually preaching at people and bullying them when they fail. So more research on saiety and why different bodies metabolize food differently and more attempts to actually correct that. A weight loss drug that actually worked would be fantastic.

          And yes I think we need to regulate predatory practices that promise to solve the problem where the solution is proven not to be effective. If excercise machine and food plan infomercials and gym sales people actually told you your odds of losing weight AND keeping it off after spending on their product many of them wouldn't make enough sales to survive. (Disclaimer: This or a similar weight loss product has resulted in a >10% weight loss maintained over 5 years in 4.5% percent of our customers).

          I'm yet to see an overweight person who wasn't more damaged from buying into the loathing, and the results don't last.

          Just telling people to eat less works great if you're not constantly hungry despite having eaten 20 minutes ago. Fighting it every waking hour requires more than just ordinary will power. People who haven't experienced that literally have no idea what they're talking about. Try training a labrador to ignore food for 24 hours. Then try getting a pickier breed to overeat on command.

        • DaneD on 15/02/2018 - 15:59
          +1

          @syousef:

          Yes we get it you are quoting a bbc docco as your single source of truth. Meanwhile, I could suggest my own documentary SuperSize me as my single point of truth.

          "Spurlock consumed 5,000 kcal per day during the experiment. An intake of around 2,500 kcal within a healthy balanced diet is more generally recommended for a man to maintain his weight.[3] As a result, the then-32-year-old Spurlock gained 11.1 kilograms (24 lb), a 13% body mass increase. It took Spurlock fourteen months to lose all the weight.

          So your documentary suggests a skinny healthy person can't gain weight and this one proves it can. The problem is you are looking up a single point of truth there is very little evidence out there suggesting you can't change your body weight. Especially when you compare it with the amount of evidence that shows you can.

          The story about two twins does not prove anything related to weight. It just indicates they both had a genetic pre-disposition for heart complications. Not sure why you mentioned / linked it?

          The reason I don't have a weight problem is purely the fact I have self control and have adapted a healthy lifestyle. I came out of high school approx 132kg at 5'9 I was about 30ish% body fat. I changed the way I ate, I took a healthy approach to life and after years of hard work at the gym and eating right I am sitting at around 8% body fat. The truth is I was lazy, made bad choices, did not sleep. It was no one else's fault or my 'terrible genetics' it was my doing.

          People are not 'blaming you', they are telling you the hard truth that if you want to lose weight it is up to you. It is simple (but not easy), you need to exhibit control and patience and stop making excuses for yourself.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 16:16
          -1

          @DaneD:

          The BBC doco is an easy intro. I can provide you with a wealth of links. In fact I've done exactly that before and you know what I was told? "I'm not reading all of that".

          I have no desire to argue with people like yourself who refuse to look at one source but ask for a bunch more. I'd rather play chess with a pigeon. When you want to have an adult conversation, let me know.

        • frostman on 15/02/2018 - 20:56
          +1

          @syousef:

          I think you think you're being clever but reductio ad absurdum and ad hominem ….

          The quickest way to exit an failing argument is to play victim with the systematic use of these adverbs.
          Sadly, the train strike was called off and the drivers were forced to suck it up or go find another job (exactly my point from the get-go).

          I think we need to be looking for actual solutions and root causes rather than continually preaching at people and bullying them when they fail

          The solution, evidenced and proven, is in front of every person = Exercise + Lean Diet.

          People like you look to magic pills to shred down the fat, gain 6-packs and maybe some mad pecs
          Sadly, 99% of the companies have jumped to capitalising on this multi-billion dollar industry to con gullible fat people of their wealth.
          Meanwhile these fat people don't have the willpower to hit a bike, walk up the stairs, or go to the park on a weekend and do some circuit training. All whilst coming home and ripping into some Pizza and connoisseur ice cream.
          Being fat is not a miracle, it's the intelligent human body showing the person that they look different now as a result. If fat people remained skinny on the outside, people will drop dead from diabetes and heart attacks with little notice.

          Just telling people to eat less works great if you're not constantly hungry despite having eaten 20 minutes ago

          Do some research, eating whole foods, high in protein and low GI DOES NOT MAKE U HUNGRY AFTER 20MINS.

          Try training a labrador to ignore food for 24 hours

          OMG then he jumps to dogs.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 20:59

          @frostman:

          There is no victim card here. You had an entire paragraph that did nothing for any argument and just ridiculed. Then you launched into reductio ad absurdum and straw men.

          Dogs indeed. You don't get it. You never will. And I am wasting my time talking to you, because you're missing the point intentionally.

        • frostman on 15/02/2018 - 21:38

          @syousef:

          And I am wasting my time talking to you

          You certainly are, better off doing jogging than googling logic and argument adverbs

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 00:10
          -1

          @frostman:

          If you need to Google what I wrote you, you have no business attempting to construct a logical argument.

          And who said anything about jogging? "You're too fat so go jogging" is not an atgument either. You are just showing your true colours.

  • rover100 on 14/02/2018 - 18:36
    +1

    Stop trying to take shortcuts to healthy habits that you need to develop in order to lose weight and be healthy. Find your TDEE and eat below it by 300-500 calories. It just seems you lack the discipline and consistency in regards to your diet if you want to lose weight. Additional fitness in the form of sports or gym should be additional but are not necessary in order to lose weight and be healthy. It all comes down to discipline for 99.99% of people.

    • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 07:56
      -1

      If it were so simple we wouldn't have so many obese people. Almost no one wants to be fat.

      • DaneD on 15/02/2018 - 10:01

        @syousef

        That's the whole point it is very simple and there is very little money for companies in proper dieting hence all of the gimmicks.

        The difficulty you are having, is understanding that while it may be simple, it takes a long time and most people find the process very hard / painful. But unfortunately, to achieve sustainable weightless / maintain a healthy weight people have to go through this process it can't be all beer and skittles all the time.

        So yes it is simple but it is hard.

        • Joe Sixpack on 15/02/2018 - 10:13
          +1

          @DaneD

          it takes a long time and most people find the process very hard / painful

          Correct. Which is why a drug that makes it easier and less painful is desirable.

          I can't understand why everyone has this puritanical attitude to getting help with losing weight! It's like telling a depressed person not to take anti-depressants, but just "pull yourself together, you weakling!"

          A really dumb attitude.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 10:26

          [@DaneD] @Joe Sixpack:

          It's not just people who munch on beer and skittles non-stop that have a problem. That's just ignorance at its worst. No it is not simple. If it were simple the success rate would be much higher.

          Part of the issue is genetics. If you breed animals with a propensity for hunger - e.g. certain breeds of dogs llike labradors - you will end up with an animal that would eat itself to death. They've actually isolated the genes in labradors that make them food obsessed. Well we can't practice eugenics due to ethical concerns. So with improved medicine, as more and more people who have issues with weight have been able to not only breed but support their children and grandchildren despite those issues, we're ending up with a population that has the genetic propensity to be food obsessed. I do NOT have a good solution for this, but I can tell you that bullying fat people doesn't help.

          Daniel you're presenting no statistical evidence that this drug is so effective as to make a significant difference. It's clear you have a vested interest in pushing it. No different to any of the pills or potions that have come before.

        • rover100 on 15/02/2018 - 12:06

          @Joe Sixpack:

          Not being able to lose weight is not a mental disorder, you just trying to take shortcuts instead of learning about proper nutrition.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 12:21
          +1

          @rover100:

          I have plenty of proof that it is not that simple. Refusal to actually consider the evidence is the problem.

        • Joe Sixpack on 16/02/2018 - 12:08

          @syousef:

          Daniel you're presenting no statistical evidence that this drug is so effective as to make a significant difference. It's clear you have a vested interest in pushing it. No different to any of the pills or potions that have come before.

          Is this addressed to me? I have no financial interest in this drug or drug manufacturer whatsoever, and I'm finding it very effective, even a godsend. YMMV

      • rover100 on 15/02/2018 - 11:55

        It's a discipline issue for nearly all people, it is not a mental disorder. I have cut weight plenty of times and it aint even hard if you dont use a big deficit.

    • Ronnnie on 16/02/2018 - 18:26

      I think you are better finding your BMR and eating that amount in energy. Then lose weight with activity. :) I'm doing a similar thing, but I aim to gain weight slowly. I want to get my BMI up to 26-30 range eventually. :) Might take a year. Lol

  • Punknerd on 15/02/2018 - 00:46
    -1

    Bloody hell! 400 bucks a month for a drug reduce fat. On multiple occasions, I gained a few kilos and my pants didn't fit anymore, I just eat half meals for a few weeks to drop back to avoid buying new clothes. It must be nice to be rich.

    • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 07:54

      Must be nice to find it so easy to eat less, and wonderful to get results. Not everyone has it that easy, otherwise no one would be overweight.

      That said I don't think the drug will help much.

      • Punknerd on 15/02/2018 - 14:36
        +1

        No one is saying it's easy. 99.99% of overweight people just can't commit to shut their mouth and wait for the next meal. I hate the saying "it's not about willpower". Yes it's bloody is. Unless you have gun pointing to the back of your head telling you to stuff yourself with food, you can stop eating.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 14:50
          -1

          No it bloody isn't. Trying to resist extreme hunger is not the same for everyone. One person's hunger drive can be ignored altogether. Another person will be ravenous. Trying to deal with being ravenous every waking hour is not fun. You are making a classic mistake: You think people experience it roughly the same and what works for you can easily work for another. They don't, and it won't.

          This is like telling the average guy that they have 2 legs and 2 arms and that the they aren't an Olympic athlete is lack of willpower.

        • DaneD on 15/02/2018 - 15:43

          @syousef:

          Ok let's just consider for a second that it is possible to have a genetic condition that predisposed you to 'extreme hunger'. The only thing I can find with a search on google is Prader-Willi Syndrome which occurs once out of every 15,000 births. So is it possible you are hungry all the time due to a rare genetic condition? Sure. But is is EXTREMELY unlikely for example in 2010 17 people in the whole of Australia were born with the condition.

          In fact according to USA swimming 49 out of 362,320 swimmers represented america in the Olympics. So your chances of having Prader-Willi Syndrome are half as likely as making an Olympic swimming team. In summary arguing that fact that a super rare genetic condition is applicable to the general public regarding weightless is completely disingenuous.

        • Punknerd on 15/02/2018 - 15:50

          @syousef:
          Again, not fun. But it boils down to "are you willing to do what it takes to achieve your goal" if the answer is yes then you have to stick with your conviction.

          Bad example on the Olympics one, no one is talking about becoming Mr/Mrs Olympia of body building. In order to reach Olympic athlete level, you would have to have the right physique, talent, genetic predisposition and most importantly the right up bringing. You would then need to win consistently at higher and higher level to compete at the very top. A farrrrr cry from withholding food.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 16:18

          @Punknerd:

          Not a bad example at all. You just don't understand that some people's ability to process food works differently and have different hunger drives. You can't take a Clydesdale to the Melbourne Cup either. You simply aren't listening and you quite literally have no idea. "It's only a little bit painful for me to withhold food, so it'll be the same for everyone else". No. It is UNBEARABLE and a constant issue for some.

          Just as for me, giving up alcohol is not a problem because I never acquired a taste and have avoided it for a couple of decades now (why waste money on something that makes you GAG?), but telling an alcoholic to just abstain is pointless.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 16:49
          +1

          @DaneD:

          All I can say is you didn't look very hard. You didn't even come across Leptin, details of hunger regulation, increase of the hormone in Downs Sydnrome and weight gain. Start by Googling "abnormal hunger regulation", "apetite downs sydrome", "hunger labrador genetics" without the quotes.

          2 minutes Googling and failing to find something does NOT make you an expert on a problem you have no experience with.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/02/2018 - 18:46

          @syousef:

          I think you might be surprised about the amount of effort that goes into "Olympic Athlete" that extends well beyond just having good genetics.

          Do you really feel that the battle to not eat is anywhere near the level of dedication required to be an Olympic athlete/professional sports person, or are you just using an extreme scenario to get across the message that different people face different challenges?

        • trapper on 15/02/2018 - 19:05

          @syousef:

          The reason it hurts so much is that your stomach is stretched to the size of a football from years of stuffing it full of pizza.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 20:10

          @Cubist:

          Please point to where I said that an Olympic athlete doesn't need to make a gigantic effort. I'll wait. You need BOTH the genetics AND the right TRAINING and the dedication AND the good luck to be in the right circumstances. The weakest link rules you out of playing sports at world class level because there is someone else who has that and everything else you have got covered. And unlike weight loss, coming 4th means you barely get any benefit at all.

          Meanwhile most people couldn't get to the Olympics no matter how much effort they made. Also no one is going to pay or sponsor most people to lose weight full time.

          Yes I do think that if you're literally constantly hungry it requires an extreme effort.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 20:14

          @trapper:

          First it doesn't matter why it hurts.

          Second, your stomach doesn't work that way.
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16197785
          "RESULTS:
          The length of the lesser curvature, total gastric capacity and weight of the stomach of morbidly obese patients were similar to control subjects. The length of greater curvature was significantly less in patients with morbid obesity.

          CONCLUSIONS:
          No significant differences were found in anatomic measurements of the stomach between control subjects and patients with morbid obesity."

          To be blunt STOP MAKING CRAP UP BECAUSE IT SUITS YOUR IMAGINARY VIEWS.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/02/2018 - 20:24

          @syousef:

          Don't want you waiting too long, so I will reply straight away.

          You compared the struggle of weight loss to the struggle of becoming an Olympic athlete. A feat achieved by (tens of?) millions of people a year worldwide, to a feat achieved by only 14,000 people (Summer and winter combined), once every four years.

          I'm not shitting on your for not being able to lose weight, I'm not saying losing weight is easy, but I think you need to look at your battle from a more realistic perspective. That's why I am saying you are massively underestimating their level of effort to do what they do.

          The weakest link rules you out of playing sports at world class level because there is someone else who has that and everything else you have got covered. And unlike weight loss, coming 4th means you barely get any benefit at all.

          Not sure if you realise that your edit works against your argument, and not for it.

        • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 20:58

          @Cubist:

          Is it LITERALLY as hard as becoming an Olympic athlete? I think you've missed the point. My edit doesn't work against my argument. I don't think you've understood my argument.

          If losing weight were easy you would have a lot less overweight people.
          Fat people:
          - Get abused, bullied and excluded
          - Have difficulty finding clothes that fit
          - Are overlooked at work
          - Often have low self esteem and are disgusted with their own bodies
          - Have to deal with health implications and others (including doctors) deciding it is all their own fault

          What sane person would want any of that? If it were as easy as not eating chips and occasionally feeling a little peckish, we wouldn't have a problem.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/02/2018 - 21:17

          @syousef:

          That's a massive shift in goal posts from the question I asked you. Re-read my question. It looks like your answer to the latter question I asked is "yes", even if you immediately jumped into a defensive post that suggested the answer was "no".

          I never stated losing weight was easy. Giving up any part of your life and changing behaviours and habits you have formed over extended periods of time is difficult for people. Weight, Drugs, Alcohol, Cigarettes… The list goes on, it's all tough. If it wasn't you wouldn't have the obese, addicts, alcoholics, or smokers.

          Good luck with your battle.

        • Punknerd on 15/02/2018 - 23:02

          @syousef:

          Life is about making choices, some are harder than the other. The greater the adversity, the greater willpower is required to overcome it. Once you desire something desperately enough no matter how persistently painful it is, you stick to your resolve and make your goal possible.

          There's an article sometime ago that stated 16/17 biggest loser finalists gained back most of their weight after the show ended sooner or later. Defeatists may use this fact to claim that diet and exercise don't work long term. The way I see it, one person made it work, the rest just too weak to stay thin. If you hate yourself when you get fat, loathe that person! Hate it so much that everytime you pick up that fork you rage over the image of your slobby greasy face chowing down on Nacho's, then you throw your food away and drink some water.

          Also, I categorically disagree with your statement that you need "sponsor"( i.e. get paid) to stay slim. I come from a poor country the idea of too poor to diet is laughable. Dieting is one of the cheapest way to save money. If you're fat because you're poor, you're clearly not poor enough.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 00:05

          @Punknerd:

          When almost everyone fails blaming the individual and not the system is neither useful nor fair. Blind optism is still impotent. But what you are talking about isn't optimism "You aren't poor enough" is just arrogant cruelty.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/02/2018 - 02:18

          @Punknerd: I think the biggest loser is just an example that anything other than sustainable long term change is a waste of time for most people. The biggest loser is about winning ratings to sell ads, not about helping people. Using an experiment with a 1/17 long term success rate just suggests that the experiment is severely flawed.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 08:07

          @Cubist:

          The goal posts weren't changed, and I'm not responsible for your interpretation.

          Again you don't get it. It's NOT just about changing behaviours. There's that hunger drive that you don't seem to understand. It's EASY to stop eating if you're full.

          And to top it off other people can have similar behaviours and not get fat.

        • Punknerd on 16/02/2018 - 09:40

          @syousef:

          Is this the same system that put cigarette in smoker mouth, pour liquor to drinker cup and force gamblers to push that button on the poker machine. Blaming the system is just an excuse to rid oneself off personal responsibility.

          I don't get your "arrogant" cruelty comment. What is arrogant about saying that instead of spending 10 dollars at maccas, you could buy yourself 2 kilos of cheap vegetables, boil it, eat it and have 2 dollars to spare. You just fixed your calorie, fullness and money problem all at once. What? Don't like eating that much vegetables? I didn't like working 12 hours day to earn 120 bucks when I first immigrated here either, but you do what you have to do.

        • Joe Sixpack on 16/02/2018 - 12:17

          @Punknerd:

          This is a silly subthread. Science has already proved that hunger drive is genetically determined, just look at the twin studies.

          That's why any drug that down-regulates hunger is to be welcomed with open arms.

          I'm on a high today, lost another kg. Yahoo!

        • [Deactivated] on 16/02/2018 - 12:19

          @syousef:
          Hang on, so you literally believe that losing weight is as difficult as reaching the Olympics?

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 12:57

          @Cubist:

          Read what I wrote again. I'm not going to repeat myself. I'd like for you to explain how you quantify difficulty? What is your unit of measure? Why are you assuming the level of difficulty is comparable for everyone? And why on earth are you harping on about this?

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 13:02

          @Punknerd:

          Unless I suffer a brain injury there is literally no chance I will ever become an alcoholic. It is because I hate the taste of alcohol, not because I have taken personal responsibility. It doesn't tempt me. I don't crave it. I don't want it. It doesn't give me pleasure.

          Same goes for hunger. Someone that isn't hungry almost every waking moment isn't going to require any will power to not put food in their mouth. Someone that does feel that hunger is going to struggle with it and only needs to give in on average a handful of times a week to gain weight.

          Imagine a hot poker being thrust at you repeatedly, and you're just told to overcome the pain and ignore it.

          I can't explain it any better than that. Empathy requires that you put yourself in the other person's shoes, and imagine how they feel, not how you would handle it.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/02/2018 - 13:20

          @syousef:

          My original statement is that weight loss does not require the same level of effort as becoming an Olympian and the comparison is a bit silly.

          Posing the argument that anything that people don't do is difficult by default, and the measure at which they fail is an indicator as to the level of difficulty for the individual… It's an interesting way to shirk personal responsibility and get through by shifting the blame onto the task.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 14:46

          @Cubist:

          You're fixating on and ridiculing the comparison while refusing to even define the criteria and terms for the comparisons, nevermind the groups you're comparing.

          Why don't you go tell an arthritic bed ridden 50 year old, or a child who's being kept out of hospital by medication that results in weight gain that they're shirking personal responsibility. And go tell the guy who put their life on hold for years but still failed to qualify for the Olympics or bombed out on the day that they should take responsibility for why they failed.

          I've said everything I have to say to you on the topic. It's not my job to teach you empathy or reasoning skills.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/02/2018 - 15:35

          @syousef:

          I am ridiculing the comparison because it is ridiculous. No other reason.

          nevermind the groups you're comparing.

          You are comparing their struggles. Not me. I wouldn't ever think to make that comparison… Because it's ridiculous.

          And go tell the guy who put their life on hold for years but still failed to qualify for the Olympics or bombed out on the day that they should take responsibility for why they failed.

          Your comparison was the "average guy with 2 arms and 2 legs". The average guy with 2 arms and 2 legs (e.g. me?) doesn't reach his personal peak athletic form because he isn't committed to reaching it. When you talk about people who fail to reach the Olympics, you aren't describing people who meet the optimal limb count. You are describing a person who puts their life on hold, trains hours a day, seeks counselling for mental strength, seeks the best coaches, seeks the latest training techniques, seeks the best diet, and builds their life around achieving a goal that they don't quite reach.

          As for comparing a persons battle with their own challenges, to a person having to get not only the best out of themselves, but hope that the best they can get out of every single other person in their country, just to qualify for their event, then beat the best person from every other country on Earth to get the gold medal… Really?

          I don't lack empathy, I'm just not going to play pretend with you on a topic that you are obviously heavily invested in.

        • Joe Sixpack on 16/02/2018 - 15:36

          @syousef:

          Empathy requires that you put yourself in the other person's shoes, and imagine how they feel, not how you would handle it.

          Why bother with empathy when you can flame war and push your personal barrow, seems the attitude here.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 15:40

          @Cubist:

          Play pretend eh? Go fly a kite.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 15:43

          @Cubist:

          Go play pretend with this. Bet you don't even watch it. Story of a doctor with an attitude like yours till he ended up struggling himself.

          https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_ab…

        • [Deactivated] on 16/02/2018 - 17:05

          @syousef:

          Congratulations on winning a bet against yourself I guess? You seem to think that I consider weight loss a walk in the park. Beating obesity, cigarettes, drugs, or alcohol addiction is a struggle, and takes a monumental effort in many cases. Beating obesity does not require the same level of effort/dedication involved in becoming an Olympian especially a medal winning Olympian requires though. I won't play pretend on that.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 17:51

          @Cubist:

          Please repeat that comparison for me one more time. I didn't understand your objections the first 30 times, and clearly it's the only thing I wrote that you bothered to read. Dude, get some help!

        • [Deactivated] on 16/02/2018 - 18:25

          @syousef:

          This is like telling the average guy that they have 2 legs and 2 arms and that the they aren't an Olympic athlete is lack of willpower.

          Above was the ridiculous statement that you made.

          As another user said, it's a completely disingenuous and inappropriate comparison. You are trying to compare two situations which have no commonality. It wasn't the only thing you wrote, it was the only thing I found ridiculous, and I've already wasted enough of my time trying to explain why. I'd suggest not using this argument in the future as it detracts from some otherwise rational points you have to raise with people.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 18:54

          @Cubist:

          Please repeated it again. I can't hear you. Because that repetition and fixation isn't ridiculous at all, is it.

          ** I could explain why it isn't, but you won't read anything I write other than that one statement, so it's pointless.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/02/2018 - 19:03
          +1

          @syousef:

          I'm happy to listen, but I don't like to jump queues, so if you could first convince the two people before me that pointed out how silly it was, I will be happy to wait.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 20:10

          @Cubist:

          Obsessed.

        • trapper on 23/02/2018 - 18:19
          +2

          @syousef:

          • Have to deal with health implications and others (including doctors) deciding it is all their own fault

          It is your own fault! - no one else is stuffing those pies down your throat.

          I mean what the fu&k, you sound delusional. Take some personal responsibility - that is step one.

        • syousef on 23/02/2018 - 21:55

          @trapper:

          When the failure rate is literally 95% blame and abuse people and expect that to change things. Not that this abuse is new mind you. Good work. Not delusional at all.

  • ozzpete on 15/02/2018 - 06:10
    +2

    Just a heads up for anyone on this thread that really needs help, regarding their health and nutrition.
    Please seek advice from your GP and other health professionals (dietitian or nutritionist etc) .
    I noticed there alot arguing on here over their differing opinions. I would hate to think someone in desperate need would, would only read some opinions online. Sure, read through different people's views on losing weight, but it will most likely get confusing as to which post to listen to:/.
    If you are in serious need of medical advice on weight loss or anything SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE :)

    • samfisher5986 on 15/02/2018 - 15:00

      The problem with Nutritionists and some cases doctors/dietitians is that they are just going to give you 15 minutes of whatever their opinion is when you'll find every single one of them has a different opinion.

      There is no way to know if the person you see actually knows anything, there is actually a high chance (depending on the type of person you see) they will just pick a fad weight loss thing they read somewhere and combine that with exercise.

  • ggkfc on 15/02/2018 - 14:52
    +2

    it either works or it doesn't, you will know in a few weeks- your doctor will cease it if no weight loss happens

  • Winston100s on 15/02/2018 - 19:32
    +1

    <<<<Copied from official web site>>>>
    What are the possible side effects of Saxenda®?
    Saxenda® may cause serious side effects, including:

    possible thyroid tumors, including cancer
    inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis). Stop using Saxenda® and call your healthcare provider right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area (abdomen) that will not go away, with or without vomiting. You may feel the pain from your abdomen to your back
    gallbladder problems. Saxenda® may cause gallbladder problems, including gallstones. Some gallbladder problems need surgery. Call your health care provider if you have any of the following symptoms: pain in your upper stomach (abdomen), fever, yellowing of your skin or eyes (jaundice), and clay-colored stools
    low blood sugar (hypoglycemia) in people with type 2 diabetes who also take medicines to treat type 2 diabetes. Saxenda® can cause low blood sugar in people with type 2 diabetes who also take medicines used to treat type 2 diabetes (such as sulfonylureas). In some people, the blood sugar may get so low that they need another person to help them. If you take a sulfonylurea medicine, the dose may need to be lowered while you use Saxenda®. Signs and symptoms of low blood sugar may include: shakiness, sweating, headache, drowsiness, weakness, dizziness, confusion, irritability, hunger, fast heartbeat, and feeling jittery. You should check your blood sugar before you start taking Saxenda® and while you take Saxenda®
    increased heart rate. Saxenda® can increase your heart rate while you are at rest. Your health care provider should check your heart rate while you take Saxenda®. Tell your health care professional if you feel your heart racing or pounding in your chest and it lasts for several minutes when taking Saxenda®
    kidney problems (kidney failure). Saxenda® may cause nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea leading to loss of fluids (dehydration). Dehydration may cause kidney failure, which can lead to the need for dialysis. This can happen in people who have never had kidney problems before. Drinking plenty of fluids may reduce your chance of dehydration. Call your health care provider right away if you have nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea that does not go away, or if you cannot drink liquids by mouth
    serious allergic reactions. Serious allergic reactions can happen with Saxenda®. Stop using Saxenda® and get medical help right away if you have any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction
    depression or thoughts of suicide. You should pay attention to any mental changes, especially sudden changes, in your mood, behaviors, thoughts, or feelings. Call your health care provider right away if you have any mental changes that are new, worse, or worry you
    Common side effects of Saxenda® include nausea, diarrhea, constipation, headache, vomiting, low blood sugar (hypoglycemia), decreased appetite, upset stomach, tiredness, dizziness, stomach pain, and changes in enzyme (lipase) levels in your blood. Nausea is most common when first starting Saxenda®, but decreases over time in most people as their body gets used to the medicine. Tell your health care professional if you have any side effect that bothers you or that does not go away.

    Please see full Prescribing Information and Medication Guide for Saxenda®.

    • syousef on 15/02/2018 - 20:23

      Sounds nasty. Would be good to see the clinician's sheet to get a feel for how common these symptoms are.

      Not much point losing weight if you also get terminal cancer.

      • Winston100s on 15/02/2018 - 20:27

        It is always with BS products like this. While the hype is on everyone gets onto it, not thinking of the long term consequences…

        • BrainSand on 16/02/2018 - 08:35

          There is very real and debilitating consequences for being obese too, just keep that in mind…

        • Praeto on 16/02/2018 - 09:03

          @BrainSand:

          There are also alternative weight loss options that carry none of these risks, and only require a little effort and self control.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 14:49

          @BrainSand:

          And if you fail to lose the weight you still deal with those consequences, only now you've got also got nausea, diarrhea, constipation, headache, vomiting, low blood sugar (hypoglycemia), decreased appetite, upset stomach, tiredness, dizziness, stomach pain, and changes in enzyme (lipase) levels in your blood. And if you're unlucky thyroid tumors, including cancer inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis), gall bladder problems etc.

          It's the same with bariatric surgery. Statistically it's around a 2% chance of dying from gastric bypass. 1 in 50 doesn't seem so high till you realise how many are doing it out of desperation and how many are pushed to it by their doctors.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 14:50

          @Praeto:

          No, there aren't. Lots of evidence that some people have extreme problems with weight loss. What you're saying is not very different to telling an alcoholic that all they need to do is just stop drinking.

        • Praeto on 16/02/2018 - 21:24
          +1

          @syousef:

          For every person that has some rare genetic disorder that leads them to struggle with weight loss, there are another couple of million that just have no self control or will to improve themselves. I've struggled with weight for most of my adult life, as have my parents and many of my friends. None of us kid ourselves that it's a genetic disposition, we just enjoy food, and work jobs that don't always offer us an opportunity to exercise. My entire family decided to work together and address it, and we've lost about 120kg between the three of us so far. I walk 12km a day, and passed 13,000km walked a couple of weeks back (after 2.5 years). I get that it's incredibly difficult, but for 95% of people it's not a problem that requires medication. It's a problem that requires will.

          Using shortcuts like medication and surgery almost never work, because you're not dealing with the underlying habits that led you to that point. You'll end up right back where you started.

        • syousef on 16/02/2018 - 23:11

          @Praeto:

          It doesn't take a rare genetic disorder. And it isn't just about enjoying food. And it certainly isn't just about willpower.

          https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/06/you-cant-…

          I can provide plenty of other evidence that will power isn't the answer. But I doubt you'll even read that one article. No one seems to. They just keep pushing an opinion without anything more than their limited flawed experience and what they've heard in the past to back them. Who needs science right? Those buggers just keep saying different things. No need to weigh up the actual evidence when you can go with what your gut tells you. Even if your gut doesn't know squat.

        • Praeto on 16/02/2018 - 23:39
          +3

          @syousef:

          Mate, did you read it? One of the main points of the article is that short term solutions like extreme dieting don’t work long term because they don’t address the bad habits that led to the situation in the first place… which is exactly what I wrote.

          Yes it’s difficult, yes your body will fight you at every step by becoming accustomed to your exercise of choice, yes you will be hungry… That is literally the experience of every person who has ever had to lose weight and the vast majority of us do it without this medication.

          Let’s agree to disagree. You can keep spruiking this rubbish all you want.

        • Joe Sixpack on 16/02/2018 - 23:58

          @Praeto:

          You can keep spruiking this rubbish all you want.

          The same can be said to you. Your dated and primitive approach has not worked for me, but this approach (Saxenda) is working for me.

        • Praeto on 17/02/2018 - 00:07
          +1

          @Joe Sixpack:

          I’ve read all your replies, and you’ve noted that you’ve lowered your calorie intake, which is likely what’s responsible for your weight loss.. But this drug apparently made you less hungry at night, so I guess that’s a good trade off for increasing your risk of cancer!

          Who wouldn’t trade the horrible potential side effects of this drug for an average 5kg weight loss! Sign me up!

          Don’t you think that the creators of every wonder drug and shady diet option in the last hundred years have said the exact same thing about the “dated and primitive” beliefs of everyone who didn’t follow their fad?

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