Workplace Trying to Force New Role on Me and to Me Is a Clear Demotion - What Are My Rights?

caidstech on 09/02/2018 - 11:06
Last edited 10/02/2018 - 21:15 by 1 other user

Hi all,

Just after a bit of advice, story as of the time of writing:

Business is in the middle of restructuring, as part of the restructure my roles would be significantly altered and basically all the components of my current role that I actually enjoy are stripped away, leaving me with boring monotonous tasks and adding customer relations. I've made it very clear to my current executive and proposed manager that I'm not at all interested in changing my role and definitely not willing to take on the role they have proposed, however thus far they basically keep telling me that i have to "remain flexible" throughout this period and basically telling me to 'take one' for the company to accomplish a particular goal they are trying to achieve at the expense of my own career path and goals. I took all of my will power to not tell both of them to f*ck off right then and there.

I've been reviewing the Fair Work - Protections at work page and trying to understand if this is something they can force upon me, or if I have the right to stand my ground and tell them to piss off.

Can anyone help me understand my options here?

Cheers guys,
caidstech

EDIT: Please review my follow-up comment below.

Education & Work

Comments

  • altomic on 09/02/2018 - 11:15
    +1

    will you be getting paid less?

    • caidstech on 09/02/2018 - 11:36

      Not as far as I'm aware.

      • steff on 09/02/2018 - 12:43
        +26

        take the job as long as its the same pay and start looking for another job

        • Gronk on 09/02/2018 - 13:56
          +1

          will you be getting paid less?

          That's illegal unless the employee has been fired & re-hired.

  • CyberMurning on 09/02/2018 - 11:17
    +8

    means they dont like you. either office politics, or maybe they dont think you perform well, or your getting paid too much (cost saving decision from up above).
    my suggestion just agree and improve yourself, or find other job. life will never be the same anymore if you stay. you are not happy, and they might keep trying to kick you out every single opportunities arrises

    • caidstech on 09/02/2018 - 11:43

      Not trying to blow my own horn, but I can assure you this is not the case. I'm widely liked throughout the business and people have literally told me that to my face. I was even given the option to work from home in a different state in an effort to retain me at the business, which is a first for the company.

      As for the getting paid too much, I can confirm that this is definitely not the case. I make significantly less than the median wage for my position, which I accept for the learning experience in this niche business.

      Regardless, it's looking like a new job might be on the cards. Appreciate the feedback :)

      • D C on 09/02/2018 - 18:17
        +5

        Nobody is vital to the success of company a success, you can be replaced.

        It doesn't matter if 'everyone' likes you, what opinion of you do the people controlling the restructure have?

        Regardless, it's looking like a new job might be on the cards

        Yup.

    • sien on 09/02/2018 - 13:31
      +2

      Or they don't think that the bits of work that he enjoyed are as useful and profitable for the company as the bits he enjoys.

      Work isn't about providing employee amusement.

      This isn't to say that it's irrelevant, just that the company may not want to do what caidstech does.

      And, as others have said, caidstech should also be looking for a new job.

      The company might potentially be facing downsizing. An employee who doesn't want to do the tasks they are given is a potential target for 'savings'.

      Also, be careful about telling the company to f-off. When hiring people these days companies and organisations can look on linked in or whatever and call people who are not listed references but who worked at a place where a candidate has worked. It can be a good way to find out what people who are not a probable friend of the candidate think of the candidate.

      • CyberMurning on 09/02/2018 - 13:56

        Work isn't about providing employee amusement.

        agree thats why the word is work, not holiday.

  • [Deactivated] on 09/02/2018 - 11:18

    Option: Quit and find a new role?

    • caidstech on 09/02/2018 - 11:44

      Looking more and more likely.

      • original15 on 09/02/2018 - 18:18
        +1

        Hold of quitting. Might be able to wrangle a payout
        However if not easily attained DO NOT stay in the job if it’s a huge downer and impacting you. However, if there is significant change you can claim your role has been impacted and can claim redundancy/retrenchment

  • vinni9284 on 09/02/2018 - 11:23
    +5

    If you have been there for a long time, then try to get retrenched and hopefully you'll get a nice payout.

    Otherwise, do the traditional middle finger salute. Get another job and tell them where to go with a smile on your face when confirmed; play the politically correctness game like them.

    That way, you can still keep a good reference in future although you can't stand them.

    Try not to burn your bridges.

    Good luck

    • caidstech on 09/02/2018 - 11:48
      +2

      Yeah, I'm going to pursue redundancy at this point and if unavailable I think a new job is on the cards. Appreciate the feedback!

  • Chubbsmcfatflabs on 09/02/2018 - 11:40
    +2

    Two paths : Ask if redundancy is an option. If so ask for that.
    if not
    Take the role and actively seek another.
    Don't leave until you get either a decent payout from a redundancy/job termination or have secured another role elsewhere.

    In both cases make sure you maximise your entitled sick leave days. You do not get paid out for these.

    • caidstech on 09/02/2018 - 11:50

      Yep, this was how I was intending on approaching the whole thing. Might be the only way forward. Appreciate the feedback!

      • Chubbsmcfatflabs on 09/02/2018 - 11:58
        +4

        NP..in this situation the business doesn't care what you do, irrespective of what they say. It's not personal.
        So look after yourself and make sure you get what you are entitled to.

        Remember to stay classy and don't let emotion get in the way of making an informed clear decision about your future and whats best for you.

      • original15 on 09/02/2018 - 18:19
        +3

        BE careful asking for redundancy, have to be tactful. If it’s not immediately available they’ll know this is your priority and may look for ways they can avoid that outcome

    • Sensiekatie on 10/02/2018 - 13:34

      If it is a restructure not a takeover, I doubt redundancy is even an option unless others lost their jobs. Additionally, you were offered a position. However, I don’t think it is wise to ask as they will say bye bye as fast as they can.

      Such a role change does require a written notification and PD.

      I was a Program Manager and I covered all aspects of my role (State Manager). One newer employees at the Centre did not like that idea (and I do see their point - if the person in that position leaves then nobody knows how to do it).

      At one point I was the only accredited RACGP trainer on staff and had to do the approvals for every GP event (for their PD POINTS) ion top of my own role. I was the only one with the CERT IV or any training /education qualifications too.

      My boss was a formidable female Professor who was rarely in our office. It was very difficult to change her mind about anything so I don’t know how they persuaded her.

      In the next round of funding it was proposed that like OP all the things I enjoyed about my role (the education component that I had quals for) would be stripped away. I had even had a person helping with some of the training- blissfully unaware she would be stealing it! A position was created for her and she sat for quite a while before I went doing bits of various things. I would be left with the mundane administrative parts and I was a qualified health professional in 2 disciplines.

      My response to the proposed change was to look for a job. There was a delay in the refunding but I was kept on as I was the only person the Professor would trust with any financial Work. she had me doing budget proposals for the next phase and a lot of other work to get it to match the $ the Federal Government were trying to get it too. It was “Do more but with less of a budget!”

      Then of course when they were finally happy, an election was called! It was approved but contracts had not yet been
      Done. I got out of there. I always hated the insecurity of contracts and knowing funding might not be renewed. I had been going project work for so long, I was over it by then.

      As I write and think about this, I was the only person allowed to do the financial reports (at our Centre and the University - EVER). She invited me to meetings with the Business Manager and Executive about finance for the program. Perhaps my boss had a plan - she would have kept it quiet until the time was right (she had funding).

    • [Deactivated] on 11/02/2018 - 12:01

      Sick leave is for when you are actually sick. If everyone just threw sickies ten times a year it would be quickly reduced to 3 or 5 entitlement.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 09/02/2018 - 11:44
    +2

    Take one for the team and see what happens over the next six months. It could work-out well for you as you've shown to be a team-player. If it stays the same after six months leave. Rather than a demotion you could see this as an opportunity to get on the managers good side - a kind of bargaining chip for later on, if you will.

    • caidstech on 09/02/2018 - 11:58
      +1

      While I see your point, it's difficult to do that for a company you already feel under-appreciated by. While I love my current role, team and manager the upper management and a lot of other teams are a bit of a clusterf*ck.

      Appreciate the viewpoint though, thanks!

    • Donaldhump on 09/02/2018 - 16:55
      +1

      the "take one for the team" saying, is more equivelant to "tough t*tties, we don't like you and don't care less what you think"

  • stratbargain on 09/02/2018 - 13:07
    +4

    Ask the question "Is my current role being made redundant" and if they say yes ask for your payout amount in writing so you can make an informed decision of taking a new role or leaving.

  • garetz on 09/02/2018 - 13:32

    Ask for a redundancy.

  • ivegan on 09/02/2018 - 15:27

    So you are asking here that even though you don't want to do the job they are offering, you still want a job?
    Or you mean to say that because you like your current job/role, they have to maintain this regardless businesses need it or not?

    What is your question btw?
    Will you pay me , even when I want to work in my way?

  • Halo375 on 09/02/2018 - 15:38
    +2

    They can change your responsibilities pretty much as they like but they can’t pay you less (which appears to be the case). Best you can do is try to negotiate - find something you could do that maybe they haven’t thought of.

    In the worse scenario you get some new experience that adds to your resume and increases your employment prospects. Stuff like this will happen throughout your career - best to try to look at the positives.

    As others have said if the company leaves you with no choice, move on.

  • airzone on 09/02/2018 - 16:16
    +1

    If it's just you who got their role changed, you could probably consider it constructive dismissal, and you might have a case.

    If it's more than just you, then it's probably just business, and you'll have to suck it up.

    Either way, you can look for a new job.

  • Donaldhump on 09/02/2018 - 16:54
    +3

    1.) seek a lawyer and request a redundancy
    or
    2.) accept new job at same wage and blaze through you sick days looking for new job. start working 7 hour days and smashing 2 hour lunch breaks drinking piss

    combine with

    3.) cropdust the living sh*t out of your bosses desk area

  • gidxg03 on 10/02/2018 - 08:20
    +2

    As a general rule of thumb (for IR purposes this is what we use in our org) if the role changes by more than 30% their is a risk the employee is eligible for a redundancy package. You need to decide if you want to peruse this before you take up a new role and sign a new contract or PD. If your role has changed significantly due to restructuring you are entitled to a package.

    • smux on 10/02/2018 - 08:51
      +1

      I worked in a place where a particular employee refused to accept an additional responsibility, which didn't seem to amount to a more than 30% change, and was made redundant.

      My point being, it doesn't have to be 30% so even if it's not you should still stick to your guns and not accept the change of role if you know you definitely don't want to do it. This assumes that you're confident you would be able to find a new suitable job before your redundancy money runs out, otherwise I'd stick with it and just find a new job.

      • caidstech on 10/02/2018 - 21:05
        +1

        I actually had a phone conference with our HR manager yesterday who said that this was the case in our workplace also and is going to follow up on my behalf. Interestingly, she mentioned she wasn't across the changes that the executives had sent out and said most of the business have been coming to complain about it.

  • jonnochen on 10/02/2018 - 09:37
    +1

    Worthwhile checking your contract for redundancy clause.
    Try negotiating again; at least make them aware that you are thinking of leaving if the role dramatically changes.
    Start looking for new positions and suck it up in the meantime.

    One of our good friends had this happen to her, and she unhappily has sat in the position for 18 months until her life crumbled around her because she was so unhappy. N=1.

    Good luck.

  • Aussie Smurfette on 10/02/2018 - 09:49

    When a company restructures and your job no longer exists, what exactly do you think they are going to do to an employee that says no I’m not willing to do that for your business?
    Rather arrogant in my opinion, you are only a number and easily replaced no doubt with someone cheaper as a new employee who is willing to do the job.
    Either be flexible or don’t but no doubt the company will keep going with or without you.

  • farknos on 10/02/2018 - 10:30
    +2

    some interesting points of view above.
    some times the cluster f@cks above you seek out a employee who looks like they can take one for the team and get the job done that not every employee can achieve. maybe your that employee?
    quite often those cluster f@cks were that employee at some stage in their life.
    but the fact that you are stamping you feet like a child and thinking about asking for redundancy may suggest your not as well liked by the cluster f@cks above you as you think and maybe they are just dumping the sh!t job on you because they can and your very expendable.
    if your not happy with their decisions voice your opinion and look for a new job, as others have stated above your conduct in this role could easily effect your future possible employment, dont think perspective employers only check the references you have supplied if the role is worthy of the effort they will put the effort in to find out how you conducted your self at a previous role.
    advice like, go for a pay out and use all your sick leave wont come from people that make it to mid level management.
    Good Luck

  • caidstech on 10/02/2018 - 13:08
    +7

    OK I'm going to be very clear here, as some of the above responses have been extremely snarky for no reason.

    I have been working full-time for roughly 4 years, as this is the case and this situation is something that I have never come up against I am asking this community for advice and if anybody could help me understand my options here. I'm not convinced this warrants some of the as$hole comments above this one. I'm not really sure how my original post was interpreted as "arrogant" or "stamping your feet like a child", or that I require "amusement" as part of my job. The OP was merely an outline of the situation as it stands and obviously some of my emotions regarding it are shown. Apologies if this came across as such.

    Its worth pointing out here that the proposed role sits well outside my current role of Systems Engineer and is more closely aligned to Data Entry and Customer Relations. As this is significantly different and no where near my actual field, this is why I'm so steadfast in holding my ground. My actual conversations with the people involved were professional and I tried my best to relay my points regarding why I don't believe that the role they have proposed is the the way forward and looking for compromise to the situation.

    That aside, I appreciate the feedback of all of you and have taken it on board. I don't really want to be made redundant, but I'm also not going to stand idly by while I get demoted (in my eyes) and just accept it. I'm going to try and find a compromise with them that suits both parties, but if they are not willing to be "flexible" or work with me as they expect me to, I will either seek redundancy or accept the role and find a new position as soon as possible.

    Again, thanks for the responses.

    -Caidstech

    • p1 ama on 11/02/2018 - 11:30
      +4

      I've read through all the comments and I sympathise with you, but I don't think you understand the point that people are making, and as such, are interpreting them as mean or snarky when they are not.

      The reason why some comments call you "arrogant" or "stomping your feet like a child" is because you're asking for a solution which 1) only satisfies what you want; and 2) a solution that's clearly not going to happen.

      Basically, beyond the entire story, your question is "I don't like my job now, what can I do about it?" Really, you have three solutions: 1) try to get the company to change your job; 2) put up with the new job anyway, at least you're still getting paid the same and not fired; 3) quit. You seem intent on achieving 1) by whatever means possible (even thinking about going to fair work), when clearly the company no longer want/need that position. You seem to not be open to the other proposed solutions.

      I think you've become too emotionally invested in your job, which is a bad thing. At the end of the day, it's a business relationship. There is no benefit to anyone if you are unhappy. There's bound to be someone out there who will enjoy your job and there is bound to be a job out there you will enjoy. No need to be bitter or pissed off - don't take things personally and don't burn bridges. They could easily be just as pissed off at you for not wanting the new role. Works both ways too.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/02/2018 - 14:17
    +1

    "if they are not willing to be "flexible" or work with me as they expect me to".
    You are the employee and they are the employer.
    They are making decisions in the interests of the Company.
    As much as it may pain you, they have no obligation and maybe no desire to 'be flexible' for a junior employee.

    • caidstech on 10/02/2018 - 14:45

      Fair enough, but even though I have not been in the workplace long I am not a junior employee.

      Appreciate the comment. :)

  • Hardlyworkin on 10/02/2018 - 17:46
    +1

    Why not look at this as an opportunity? Based on what you've said you might be entitled to a redundancy package. It's probably not the best thing for your career that's only 4 years old to be going downhill. It will probably look better on your CV to have experience with a couple of different companies and be exposed to varied work.

    Your situation is common, companies restructure all the time. Companies are run to make money, not to provide ongoing employment in the same position for their employees.

    People in this forum are giving you grief as your post comes off as someone with unrealistic expectations straight out of the Gen Y playbook.

    As someone with expertise in protections at work - no you don't have the right to tell your employer to pee off. As a full time worker however you may have entitlements such as notice and redundancy if their has been a restructure and your new job is significantly different. You may need to negotiate this. I recommend doing some reading on this subject and organising a meeting with your bosses. Also, start to get an idea of what else is out there.

    • caidstech on 10/02/2018 - 20:58
      +1

      Ok, fair enough on all points and yeah I figured that was the case. As per above I was a bit pissed off while writing the OP and its pretty apparent in the way its come across. Thanks for the pointers, appreciate it. :)

  • HeWhoKnows on 10/02/2018 - 19:59
    +3

    Dear OP, its a restructure. Its not your call.
    They choose to employ you, you dont employ them.
    But you always have a choice to leave if you are not happy.
    So stop being difficult and go with the flow.

    If your job has become redundant they have to either:
    a) offer you a new role at the same pay or better - the other option is for you to leave.
    b) offer you a new role at a reduced pay - but only if you are in agreement (rarely accepted) OR
    b) Offer you a redunancy package if no new job is available for you - But then you are out of work.
    However your own words tell us what sort of unreasonable person you are…
    "It took all of my will power to not tell both of them to (profanity) off right then and there."
    Be happy that they are offering you a new job in the company as it shows faith in your abilities.

    • caidstech on 10/02/2018 - 21:00

      Yep, fair enough. I guess I was under the impression that I had a leg to stand on but it seems to not be the case, again I was really just out to gather information on what I could do in this situation being relatively early on in my career.

      I appreciate the feedback and agree that this is the point to suck it up and find a new position. Cheers for the feedback :)

    • Baghern on 11/02/2018 - 12:08
      +1

      Until you've been ops position you have no idea. Its stressful and insulting, its usually implemented by people/executive management who have zero idea.

      I'm seeing this happen at a friend's workplace, though through more 2x work for the support staff instead… the higher ups are getting incentives with a bit of extra work, the support staff nothing with 2x more work.

      Some support staff have already left, with everyone else looking elsewhere. This ivory tower foundation is crumbling…

      Saw a restructure in another area 2 years ago, team of 3 , 2 managers 1 super analyst. They sacked the 2 managers, thinking the super analyst could do it all. Just as its happening… they realised they fked up and tried to get 1 of the manager back… she noped out of there and went elsewhere. That Super Analyst is now on 1 year leave… will he come back?

      They've replaced them with 2 part time quasi managers… the output from this team is a dodgy/low quality 50% of what was done before.

      They dun goofed

  • CharityCase on 11/02/2018 - 10:51

    Could union help in this situation? My company is currently going through a change as well so I'm thinking join the union to protect my right if there will be any "unexpected change" to my job…

  • Chubbsmcfatflabs on 12/02/2018 - 11:03

    People are Human resources which are one of, if not the largest cost a business has. They are also the easiest to get rid of, and hence reduce costs.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join