Logos is Bible study software, the be a book is worth RRP ~$23 on the platform
From the Logos ad:
Start the New Year off right. Get the Christian Standard Bible, a D.A. Carson devotional, and Logos Bible Software for free!
Free Bible (CSB), and Don Carson Devotional (Normally $23) on Logos Software
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People neg deals on eggs and nobody bats an eye. People neg deals on dangerous books full of harmful, discriminatory ideas and people tell them to piss off.
Going to give this deal a + because despite everything, it's free
I don't have an issue with individual belief as long as it is not used as a weapon against others.
The problem I have with religion in general is that it is often used as a weapon against other people. Look at the venal stupidity of using religion as an argument against same sex marriage. If you don't believe in it then don't marry someone of the same sex but don't use it to institutionalise discrimination against others. Most religions treatment of women is appalling. My body, my choice - f*** off telling me what to do with it. The idea that women have to dress in a certain way because men can't control themselves is completely unbelievable. If men are so out of control maybe the ominipotent God should do something about them instead.
The same sort of BS was used to shield paedophiles from being brought to Justice. This was across multiple faiths.
Remove the tax free status from religions now - let them claim back taxes where they can show money was expended on genuine acts of charity.
I don't have an issue with individual belief as long as it is not used as a weapon against others.
This whole issue of respecting people's beliefs should be disturbing. Beliefs do not exist in a vacuum. They guide our actions and inactions. If one believes someone is going to hell or is insulting one's religion, then one is likely to treat them very differently to a believer. What that treatment means is obviously of concern, but just because it might not be physical violence, doesn't mean it should be respected.
In other words you think people like Hitler should be allowed to preach their filth ? WOuld you let the nazis start schools in Australia during WW2 ? WOuld you allow them to "preach" and act their evils here ?
I really don't know how you interpreted my comment. The point I was trying to make was that beliefs guide our actions and are therefore very important. Beliefs should be open to criticism as much as our actions are.
Not sure why you are bringing Hitler into the discussion. As a side note, the pope at the time of the holocaust didn't speak out against it because it just targeted Jews. At least, that's what I've read.
I was just emphasizing what you said.
The pope didnt speak against the holocaust because he himself had been ordering pogroms against the jews for a thousand years. Giving the masses a group to hate . is an old game, that many vile leaders have and continue to do …
@ninetyNineCents:
Sorry, your comment was a response to mine, so it confused me. It looks like we agree with each other.
The Devil's greatest achievement was not in convincing man that he does not exist, but that he is GOD!
What I'm saying is, the great Devil himself is actually Yahweh or God. You can see from His acts and the way He treated human kind, it's not something a loving Father would do to his children!
Eneloops are divine
Anyone who dedicates their life to a book & blind faith is foolish. The simple fact is, the lack of definite facts means we are not meant to know the meaning of life (at least for now)
Got it. Cheers OP!
Happy New year
Apologies for not including a "trigger" warning.
Didn't mean to upset to you all.
This deal is probably more useful for people who study the Bible at bachelor/masters/doctrate level so not really useful for everyone.
But hey instead of getting upset why not make a new year's resolution to read one of the books of the new testament and judge for yourself rather than relying on second and third hand information. I've heard they've even got a movie now….Old Testament is best Testament.
It's still good, that's where all the prophecies about the new are! Just needs a bit more work to understand
There are no prophecies in the OT, only people playing word games and lying.
Make sure to pay your tithe. At least 10% of your pretax income.
Praise the lord for all the cash I’ve got,
Praise him for my rolls-royce and my yacht.
Serving God ain't hard,
With a credit card,
Jesus died so I could make a lot!Praise the lord he's made us millionaires,
Wave your donations in the air.
We’ve replaced our hymns,
With ATMs,
And soon we will charge a fee on every prayer!Jesus Christ was a poor man don’t you know,
He should’ve used our accountants for his cash flow!
Stop the Sermon on the Mount,
He should’ve had a bank account!
2000 years with interest, he’d be rolling in the dough!Praise the lord this song's out on CD,
Just 14.95 plus GST.
Hallelujah,
Plenty of moolah!
Solid gold baubles on my Christmas tree!I’ve got all of heavens riches,
Thanks to all you stupid b^tches!
Praise the lord for modern Christianity! Yeah!
Whoever said religion should be free!
Too many redneck comments here….you are happy to take the holiday but you can't let others have their own beliefs
The reason the world is such a shitty place isn't because of religion it is because people can't just live and let live
BTW I don't follow any God or religion but I wish people would stop being so judgmental and unaccepting.
And yes I know….this goes on both sides of the argument
Arguments such as yours are illogical. You start by complaining about "redneck" comments and yet wish people wouldn't be so judgmental. It's natural to be judgmental, but only seems to be a problem when it affects those whom we wish to defend.
As others have stated, religions have been used to divide and conquer people for a very long time. Is your solution to just be more accepting of religion? Have you not seen the problems it has caused? I'm not suggesting the world would be peaceful without it, but it would be one less way to separate ourselves from each other, science, fact, reality, etc. We would still have sports teams to divide us :-P
Hey Kahn
I completely understand where you are coming from and what you say has truth.
Sure, it is natural to be judgmental but that doesn't make it a good thing. Far from it, this is something we should (in my opinion) practice to minimise in our lives. It is hard and I can't say I don't do it. As for only being a problem when it offends the those whom we wish to defend, I guess a lot of people are like that but not everyone. I am not religious, I believe when I die I will turn into worm food and am perfectly happy with that. However I think the world would be a far better place without so much judgment…..just live and let live. I spent a decade in the Middle East which can be pretty religiously judgmental. The people who believed their religion most where the least judgmental, the ones who always had a big opinion were the ones who were always looking to interpret things to suit themselves.
Sure religion has been used to divide and conquer, but really if you look into it, most cases religion has been used as an excuse…the instigators would always find something else to divide…as you said if it isn't religion it's gonna be sports or literally bloody anything!!!
If someone wants to follow a particular religion, well as long as it doesn't interfere with me then that's great. If they're wrong they won't know any difference, but if they are right they get a nice house in heaven with a jacuzzi and widescreen TV whilst I will be living in a crowded dorm room in hotter climes!! When interpreted nicely, religion is almost always peaceful, when interpreted differently it can be mean, nasty and judgmental.
Is your solution to just be more accepting of religion?
Absolutely, as long as it doesn't interfere with society in a detrimental way or take away any freedoms and that I am not subjected to it unless I want to be.
as long as it doesn't interfere with society in a detrimental way or take away any freedoms
Dude, when you find such a religion, let us know!
Defective product, bought but still alive.
Is it just me who sees free religious material and gun deals and goes straight to the comments section for lulz?
I was thinking exactly the same thing…
It's when their left hand holds a bible and their right hand holds a gun that I stop laughing.
I start running if they're holding something else.
But you never ran from me?
classic bait n switch trap, sends you some shitty book with made up stories designed to guilt trip you into giving money to a cult and paedophiles/child molesters every week
Thanks OP, the Don Carson devotional is a great quality freebie to have available on my phone. Appreciated. I remember paying at least around $30 for the hard copy version some years ago.
You have to give this rubbish away as there is no one in their right mind would pay for such a pack of biggoted lies. The OP forgot to add all the terms and conditions attached to the book. *must tithe *must pray *must obey *agreement to terms and conditions in said book does not guarantee an afterlife! *god portrayed in said book may not be the right god.
Dude the gospel is pretty much the exact opposite of everything in your post. It's why we give gifts at Christmas because God gives the gift of guaranteed forgiveness in Jesus.
Though your post is understandable, as most people think that because most religions teach that. Even some Christians who haven't read the Bible think that's what it says, but nup it says the opposite.Take this for example from the letter to the Romans chapter 6:
the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
See the Bible is all ozbargain!I love a good cherry pick when I see one.
My God of Eternal Spaghetti Monster is better than your Jesus. My God promises endless supply of pasta till I die while yours gives empty promise of Eternal Life 😝
Your God hasn't delivered anything and His followers are still waiting for the Second Coming of Jesus. Anyway, who wants to live forever? Your life would be dull and boring if you couldn't die.
B : Dude the gospel is pretty much the exact opposite of everything in your post. It's why we give gifts at Christmas because God gives the gift of guaranteed forgiveness in Jesus.
99:What utter bullshit.
No where does ANY of the gospels instruct us to have a holiday and give gifts to everyone. That idea was copied from those evil dirty pagans.
WHy are you so dishonest ?
~~
B: the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
99: Bullshit again, jesus died, and people who believe have been dying ever since no differently to other unbelievers. THis is another example of lies in the bible.
true, the gospels don't say to celebrate the Christmas holiday, and Christians may have co opted a pagan party somewhere along the line.
It's not a mandated celebration, but it doesn't make the celebration of Christ-mas any less about the birth of Jesus Christ as a gift…"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" Isaiah chapter 9
As for the dying but I'm pretty sure there's something in the back of the Bible about a resurrection to it eternal life… But that's getting to Easter already
B: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" Isaiah chapter 9
99:
http://biblehub.com/isaiah/9-1.htm
Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the nations, by the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan-
Two questions…
When did "he" humble the land of Zebulun ?
And
He isnt a reference to Jesus… go read chapter 8. It talks about a few people none of them Jesus of Nazareth.
B: As for the dying but I'm pretty sure there's something in the back of the Bible about a resurrection to it eternal life… But that's getting to Easter already
99: Like i said every since Jesus death BILLIONS of people have died, which makes that claim a fraud.
@ninetyNineCents:
The He (9v1) is referring to is God, chapter 8 prophesies that God will humble the northern kingdom of Israel by destroying it by the Assyrians (8v4,7,9). That happened in 722 b.c.
Zebulan and Naphtali are places in Galilee ( northern kingdom of Israel), so is Nazareth.Chapter 9 prophesies the hope after the destruction, an annointed king/Messiah/Christ who descends from David (9v7), that he had already promised, will bring the
hope to Israel starting in Galilee.Jesus of Nazareth did most of his ministry in Galilee "the land of the gentiles" thereby honouring what God once destroyed.
Sounds like Jesus to me, pretty much says this in first chapters of the gospel of Matthew.
Old testament just takes a bit more work..
B: The He (9v1) is referring to is God, chapter 8 prophesies that God will humble the northern kingdom of Israel by destroying it by the Assyrians (8v4,7,9). That happened in 722 b.c.
99: Well you just admitted the events of the text happened 700 years before Jesus and was about the northern tribes.
The text is not about Jesus at all, its dishonest to pretend that it is. SO many of the details of the text are clearly about 700BC, and NOTHING about jesus. No mention of his name, palce of birth, his life, his apostles, his mother and father, all that is missing. You have just hijacked the text and are dishonestly misappropriating it.
B: Chapter 9 prophesies the hope after the destruction, an annointed king/Messiah/Christ who descends from David (9v7), that he had already promised, will bring the
hope to Israel starting in Galilee.99: By the time of Jesus EVERYONE was related to David. Just 700 years after Genghis Khan ab out 10% of ALL asian people have GK dna. Given the same period of time and a much small nation, EVERYONE would be related to David. Google for "Genghis Khan DNA" and read a few of the articles from reputable sources with comments from scientists.
Isa 9 isnt about jesus, again it mentions NO DETAILS that unqiuely identify Jesus.
No Mary n Joseph.
No birth in Bethlehem in a manger
No 12 apostles,
NO names of the 12
No Pilate will try and kill jesus on passover etc.B: Sounds like Jesus to me, pretty much says this in first chapters of the gospel of Matthew.
99: No it doesnt, show me EXACT details IN ISA that predict Matthew.
Quote the chapter and verse here… and let the words speak for themselves…
@ninetyNineCents:
See, my servant will act wisely ; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. Just as there were many who were appalled at him — his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being and his form marred beyond human likeness— so he will sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.
Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the Lord ’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Isaiah 52:13-15 ->Isaiah 53:1-12 NIV99: I will highlight 3 portions of the quoted text and show where this is wrong as compared with the gospels.
B: See, my servant will act wisely ; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. Just as there were many who were appalled at him — his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being and his form marred beyond human likeness—
99: Im not going to deny crucifiction is a horrible way to go, but those who suffer it are not "disfigured beyond that of any human being". Jesus would have only had holes in his hands and the piercing by the Roman.
Jesus was not mutated beyond reconigition, crucifiction while horrible is not a Fail #1
B: so he will sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.
99: Jesus never sprinkled many nations.. that doesnt mean anything.
B: He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
99: THe text says he wouldnt open his mouth and yet on the cross the gospels tell us Jesus had a chat with the robber next to him. FAIL #2
~
If the text was a real prophecy, it would have mentioned "names" "places" and "times", but it doesnt.
It doesnt mention Pilate, Gethsemane, Judas Iscariot, Romans, jesus, Passover etc. Big Fail.
B: B: See, my servant will act wisely ; he
99: FAIL #3
It doesnt give a name or place. Servant could be any believer. Is this really the best god can do ? Write text that sounds like it came out of a horoscope in the papers ?
@ninetyNineCents:
I think you are misunderstanding the nature of biblical prophecy. Prophets bring the word of God about the past present and future from God's perspective. In this instance Isaiah is sent to Israel to bring a message of what has happened in the past (judgement on Israel) what is about to happen (more judgement on Israel) and what will happen in the future (hope for Israel and the rest of the world through the promised Davidic King aka Messiah)
God is telling that generation and preserving for future generations what he is going to do.The old testament is a bit cryptic in some places, and purposely so (see Isaiah 6:9-10). it takes some knowledge of ancient near east history, culture and literature to understand.
The prophecy is that God is going to forgive sin in a new way, through his promised king.
The New testament is the fulfillment of what God said he was going to do. It is easier to understand and explains and decrypts lots of the old testament.
While it could be
any baby that gets called mighty GodAny servant that gets crushed by God for the sins of others so they can be forgiven,
Any servant that after dying sees the light of life (i.e. resurrection from the dead)
It does seem to fit pretty neatly with the big picture of God's plan for forgiving people of their sin.
B: I think you are misunderstanding the nature of biblical prophecy.
99: I think you are the one who fails to appreciate frauds who invent ideas and thoughts that dont exist in the bible. If there is a god, im sure he is capable of writing clear concise text that says what he wants rather than relying on people like you or other christian religions to invent different stories.B: The old testament is a bit cryptic in some places, and purposely so (see Isaiah 6:9-10). it takes some knowledge of ancient near east history, culture and literature to understand.
99: I understand it just fine, and as i pointed out the passage in Isaiah is clearly about ancient Israel 700 years before Jesus. Dont claim im ignorant when im reading exactly what it says.
~~
B: The prophecy is that God is going to forgive sin in a new way, through his promised king.
99: The text doesnt say promised king, it says promised Messiah. In case you didnt know there have been thousands of messiahs in jewish culture. Every king and high priest all the way back to times like David was a messiah. Messiah means chosen one. When Saul was trying to kill David, David refused to harm Saul back because he was a chosen or the messiah of god.
THe author of the text is clearly talking abiout his wife giving birth to a promised one. We all know that prophecy failed.
~~
B: While it could beany baby that gets called mighty God
99: THere have been many mighty gods, do you want me to start listing all theother religions with babies as gods ?
~~
B: Any servant that gets crushed by God for the sins of others so they can be forgiven,99: Several mistakes. Jesus was killed by the Romans not god, so you claim of prophecy is a fail here. If proiphecy is suppiosed to be accurate you have a mistake here.
~~
B: Any servant that after dying sees the light of life (i.e. resurrection from the dead)
99: For starters Jesus is never named ANYWHERE in the OT. No where in the OT is it mentioned that Yahweh has a son. The tiown of Nazareth is also NEVER MENTIONED in the OT.
In fact NOTHING ABOUT jesus life as mentioned in the gospels is mentioned in the OT.
Feel free to shiow passages that provide PERFECT DETAILS that match jesus.
Im really intersted in where it esays giod the father called jesus will ciome to save our sins . and will be betrayed by Judas Iscariot and executed by Pilate the Roman gov.
~~~
B: It does seem to fit pretty neatly with the big picture of God's plan for forgiving people of their sin.
99: Gods original plan was to bless his chosen people the jews. We all know how that worked out, so so much for gods plan.
@ninetyNineCents:
Dude your responses are all just new questions, statements really, with no logical connection to the answers you quote.Isaiah prophesies about the a servant who will take away sin, and will see life after death.
You reply with statements about Jesus name and his status as Son of God. But anyhow here's some responses anyway: Jesus is the greek version of a common Hebrew name. I'll leave you to find the Hebrew version.
Jesus being killed by Romans, doesn't need God doing it just as Israel being e destroyed by the Assyrians doesnt negate it be God's judgement on them. Like Good says everyone and everything is under his control to do as he pleases with.
I Don't know why you felt the need to argue about Messiah/king. Both David and Saul are annointed/chosen as Kings? Again you think a half truth negates something but it doesn't. There is also a difference to be found between annointed and the annointed one. The descendant of David promised to rule on David's throne forever ( 2 Sam 7)
You can also check out Psalm 2 and Psalm 22 for references to God's Son if you like.
Shalom
B: Dude your responses are all just new questions, statements really, with no logical connection to the answers you quote.
99: Because you say so ?
Im illogical because i claim some text says some words and you claim they say something completely different ?
Sorry a sign that says Bondi Beach 5kms means bondi beach is 5km away. It doesnt mean Manly or Cronulla…
~~
B: Isaiah prophesies about the a servant who will take away sin, and will see life after death.
99: I already explained that Isaiah's stories are match for his own time. No where does Isaiah point out events, names, places that ARE UNIQUE to Jesus.
You can claim whatever you want but the text written by Isaiah doesnt tell Jesus story. Like i said before Jesus, the apostles, pilate, Nazareth etc are not mentioned in the OT.
~
B: You reply with statements about Jesus name and his status as Son of God.
99: Thats right NO WHERE in the OT does it say God has a son called Jesus.Feel free to share a passage, otherwise i am right.
~
B: But anyhow here's some responses anyway: Jesus is the greek version of a common Hebrew name. I'll leave you to find the Hebrew version.
99: I know Jesus is Joshua, Isaiah never uses the name Joshua anywhere in his text.
~
B: I Don't know why you felt the need to argue about Messiah/king. Both David and Saul are annointed/chosen as Kings?
99: YES every single high priest and king was a messiah.
THe act of pouring oil upon someone as happened to Jesus and Saul (see below) is how kings in those days were shown to be "selected" or "anointed" by god for their position. Even QUeen Elizabeth had some oil poured by the archbishop of canterbury and if you check her coat of arms, she also claims to rule because of god selected her. Im not making this up go check for yourself.
The literal translation of the Hebrew word mashiach (messiah) is "anointed", which refers to a ritual of consecrating someone or something by putting holy oil upon it. It is used throughout the Hebrew Bible in reference to a wide variety of individuals and objects; for example, a Jewish king, Jewish priests and prophets, the Jewish Temple and its utensils, unleavened bread, and a non-Jewish king (Cyrus king of Persia).[33]
Here are afew passages..
1 Samuel 10:1-2
1 Kings 1:39
Leviticus 4:3
Exodus 40:9-11
Numbers 6:15
Isaiah 45:1http://biblehub.com/context/1_samuel/10-1.htm
1Then Samuel took the flask of oil, poured it on his head, kissed him and said, “Has not the LORD anointed you a ruler over His inheritance?
http://biblehub.com/1_samuel/10-1.htm
Verse 1. - A vial of oil. Hebrew, "the vial of oil," because it was that same holy oil with which the priests were anointed (Exodus 29:7). Throughout Holy Scripture the office of king appears as one most sacred, and it is the king, and not the priest, who is especially called Messiah, Jehovah s anointed (1 Samuel 2:10, 35; 1 Samuel 12:3, 5; 1 Samuel 16:6, etc.), because he represented the authority and power of God. And kissed him. I.e. did homage to him, and gave him the symbol and token of allegiance (see Psalm 2:12).
and here is the hebrew form of the above…
http://biblehub.com/text/1_samuel/10-1.htm
click on HEBREW …
Ive pasted the text and added some <<<< to show you where it says Messiah. Notice the text is about the annoitment of Saul who was the chosen king of the jews at that time.
◄ 1 Samuel 10:1 ►
Text Analysis
Str Translit Hebrew English Morph
3947 [e] way-yiq-qaḥ וַיִּקַּ֨ח Then took Verb
8050 [e] šə-mū-’êl שְׁמוּאֵ֜ל Samuel Noun
853 [e] ’eṯ- אֶת־ - Acc
6378 [e] paḵ פַּ֥ךְ a vial Noun
8081 [e] haš-še-men הַשֶּׁ֛מֶן of oil Noun
3332 [e] way-yi-ṣōq וַיִּצֹ֥ק and poured [it] Verb
5921 [e] ‘al- עַל־ on Prep
7218 [e] rō-šōw רֹאשׁ֖וֹ his head Noun
5401 [e] way-yiš-šā-qê-hū; וַיִּשָּׁקֵ֑הוּ and kissed him Verb
559 [e] way-yō-mer וַיֹּ֕אמֶר and said Verb
3808 [e] hă-lō-w, הֲל֗וֹא not Adv
3588 [e] kî- כִּֽי־ because Conj
4886 [e] mə-šā-ḥă-ḵā מְשָׁחֲךָ֧ has anointed Verb . <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
3068 [e] Yah-weh יְהוָ֛ה [Is it] the LORD Noun
5921 [e] ‘al- עַל־ over Prep
5159 [e] na-ḥă-lā-ṯōw נַחֲלָת֖וֹ his inheritance Noun
5057 [e] lə-nā-ḡîḏ. לְנָגִֽיד׃ [to be] you captain NounHere is a reference to hebrew word 4886 in STRONGS. Notice what it says about Messiah…
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/4886.htm
mashach: to smear, anoint
Original Word: מָשַׁח
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: mashach
Phonetic Spelling: (maw-shakh')
Short Definition: anointedB: The descendant of David promised to rule on David's throne forever ( 2 Sam 7)
99: Thats right and that prophecy, its been MORE than 2000 years and no descendant of david has ruled Israel.
You also didnt read what i shared ab out genghis khan and his DNA. EVERYONE in israel by jesus time had david's DNA, it would have been a miracle if jesus DIDNT have his dna.
B: You can also check out Psalm 2 and Psalm 22 for references to God's Son if you like.
99: DO a proper job of quoting the passages you wish to share. None of those are closely related about Jesus. Try and share them here and lets see what they say.
LIke i said before no mention of pIlate, the apostles, their names, nazareth, gallilee, etc etc.
@ninetyNineCents:
re: messiah, great research, so after that can we now agree that messiah/annointed in context basically means king? we arent arguing that the altar is "the messiah" because it was also annointed?
hopefully you can also agree that "Christ" is the greek term for "annointed" as in "the messiah / king" not his surname?So when Matthew 1:1 starts the genealogy of Jesus Christ, it is referencing the prophecies and tracing the lineage back to David.
in terms of bethlehem:
matthew 2:6 quoting micah 5:23 When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. 5 “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:
6 “‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’”The prophecies were a bit cryptic, the magi and others worked it out, Herod did not.
Matthew 3:1-3 quoting Isaiah 40
In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.’”you might notice the word for Lord there in the old testament is Yahweh. john the baptist is preparing the road for God to come.
Matthew 4:12-16 quoting Isaiah 9
13 Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali— 14 to fulfill what was said through the prophet Isaiah:15 “Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali,
the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan,
Galilee of the Gentiles—
16 the people living in darkness
have seen a great light;
on those living in the land of the shadow of death
a light has dawned.”[f]17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
Gospel of Luke 4:14-19 - As you can see it is Jesus himself is the one who is claiming to fulfil the prophecies (he reads from Isaiah 61), that you claim are not prophecies:
14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. 15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.
16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”[f]20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
Jesus certainly thinks his death is for the forgiveness of sins like the suffering servant MAtthew 26:
26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
And he thinks he is being crushed by God, not the Romans, though they are the tool:
Matthew 26
38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
And they killed him for claiming he was The king (Messiah) of the jews, God's Son (Psalm 2)
37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is jesus, the king of the jews.38 Two rebels were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40 and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!” 41 In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! He’s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’”
The NT and the gospels join the dots of the OT together
But like Jesus says:
10The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”11He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’a
16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
Peace
99: re: messiah, great research, so after that can we now agree that messiah/annointed in context basically means king?
No Messiah means chosen one, aka it means god has chosen that person for a position. As i explained the High Priest and King during the days of early bible.
A king can be a messiah just like the high priest can be a messiah. Moses for example was a messiah because in the exodus story he was "chosen" by god to lead the hebrews out of Egypt.
B: we arent arguing that the altar is "the messiah" because it was also annointed?
99: No i never mentioned the word altar, i have no idea why you are introducing that term now.
B: hopefully you can also agree that "Christ" is the greek term for "annointed" as in "the messiah / king" not his surname?
99: Yes thats right Christ is the greek equivalent of Messiah or annoited. Please dont patronise me, im not a fool, with nonsense like Christ is a surname.
~
B: So when Matthew 1:1 starts the genealogy of Jesus Christ, it is referencing the prophecies and tracing the lineage back to David.
in terms of bethlehem:
matthew 2:6 quoting micah 5:299:
http://biblehub.com/micah/5.htm
2"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."
First of all Micah says Bethlehem Ephrathat.. and it mentions that BE was a CLAN, not a TOWN. FAIL #1
5This One will be our peace. When the Assyrian invades our land, When he tramples on our citadels, Then we will raise against him Seven shepherds and eight leaders of men.
During Jesus lifetime the Assyrians NEVER invaded Israel proper, and Jesus never lead any defencse of the holy land.
FAIL #2 and FAIL #3
6They will shepherd the land of Assyria with the sword, The land of Nimrod at its entrances; And He will deliver us from the Assyrian When he attacks our land And when he tramples our territory.
Jesus never lead an invasion agasinst Assyria. FAIL #4
I will stop commenting but there are plenty other examples in the text that DONT apply to Jesus at all.
Like i said before THERE ARE NO PROPHECIES or mentions of Jesus. This example is pathetic, its not even remotely close to jesus, and its on the level of the frauds like astrologers in the papers.
~~~
B: The prophecies were a bit cryptic, the magi and others worked it out, Herod did not.
99: They arent cryptic at all. The problem is you are LYING and trying to make words say things that they dont say.
The killings of the innocents NEVER happened, there is no historical record outside the gospels that records such an event. If Herod really did kill all the babies then for starters how did John the Baptist who was 6 months older and Jesus cousin survive ? The same is true of the apsotles, there should have been no apostles, and no James the brother of Jesus.
~~B: Matthew 3:1-3 quoting Isaiah 40
In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:6 “‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’”99: Two fails.
Jesus never ruled Israel. #FAIL # 4
Secondly outside of matthew's birth narrative. If this was really a prophecy, how come Mark, Luke John and Paul didnt mention it in their writings ? They didnt mentioned because this isnt a prophecy, this is just another example of dishonety where people pretends its about jesus ,but when you read the rest of the text its clear it doesnt remotely match him.
~~~~~NONE of Jesus life, his death, the romans, the apostles, the passover story, pilate are not mentioned in the OT anywhere. Jesus the individual is NEVER mentioned in the OT. No where does the OT say God has a son, and will come down in year X, and will be crucified by the Pilate and the Romans to save our sins.
You have shared with me a few "claims" and i have shown them all to be completely WRONG. How about you be fair and hourable and acknowledge this …
You were clearly WRONG about what Messiah means and how it applies to Jesus. YOu like many christians dont know the basics and wrongly think if the OT mentions Messiah it must be about Jesus. I gave you the correct meaning and when you understand what it really means all those texts you think are about jesus are actually just ordinary texts.
So who was RIGHT about what Messiah means ?
Was i right that Saul and David were messiahs ?
You clearly claimed i was wrong when i was clearly RIGHT.
@ninetyNineCents:
I think if there is confusion over understanding the difference uses of a word like messiah and its pretty obvious in it's different contexts, then anything harder than that isn't going anywhere.Why do you think Jesus is called the Christ/Messiah? What is he chosen to do? who is he chosen by? when was oil poured on his head? who were the Jewish people expecting? why was he interrogated to find out if he was the messiah not just a messiah?
The claims i put forward arent my claims, they are Jesus' claims about himself.
Jesus not only claims to be the chosen/annointed/king/ruler of Israel, but that through the resurrection he is the chosen/annointed/king/ruler (and priest) of the entire universe…16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
God's Son who rules all the nations. forever. (Psalm 2 and 2 Samuel 7)
I think im going to keep going with the resurrected guy's understanding of himself, peace
B: I think if there is confusion over understanding the difference uses of a word like messiah and its pretty obvious in it's different contexts, then anything harder than that isn't going anywhere.
99: The person NOT reading the context is yourself. You presented Mic 5 as a prophecy of the messiahs birthday and then proceeded to IGNORE the context where it says that same person will lead a force against the Asyrrians.
Thats dishonest.
Secondly the passage is about a CLAN called Bethleme Ephratah(sp) and not the place. There are several towns in ancient israel called Bethelem anyway, so again precision is required.
The context is you want a license to pick and twist words and avoid addressing when y9ou are caught out LYING and TWISTING what the bible says.
B: Why do you think Jesus is called the Christ/Messiah? What is he chosen to do? who is he chosen by? when was oil poured on his head? who were the Jewish people expecting? why was he interrogated to find out if he was the messiah not just a messiah?
99: Sorry mate, i asked you a few questions which remain unanswered. Im happy to answer you q, but i asked first.
Its not fair that you keep LYING and presenting text and when you are clearly wrong, you run away as if it never happened.
I asked you for a prophecy that is uniquely about Jesus. THis prophecy must include details that are known about his lifetime as presented in the gospels. So why isnt Jesus mentioned by name or position or his "mission" anywhere in the OT ?
B: God's Son who rules all the nations. forever. (Psalm 2 and 2 Samuel 7)
99: Here is another lie, Jesus has NEVER ruled any nations. To make that claim is a LIE.
Ps and 2S are not talking about Jesus at all. You are lying if those texts are. There is no mention of any details of jesus in those texts.
I will quote and cover bot of these AFTER you answer my question why jesus isnt mentioned in the OT.
~
B: The claims i put forward arent my claims, they are Jesus' claims about himself.
Jesus not only claims to be the chosen/annointed/king/ruler of Israel, but that through the resurrection he is the chosen/annointed/king/ruler (and priest) of the entire universe…99: He can claim whatever he likes, and its a lie.
I too can claim im the greatest tennis player in all history - that doesnt make it true.
To be a king you have to have a domain and rule. Jesus has no domain and has never RULED. After all where exactly is the capital of Jesus land on earth ? Can you point me to is prisons, his police, his laws about cars or pedodphiles or slavery ?
WHy would anyone take advice from people who sell the bible, when Jesus said multiple times in the gospels that "you received freely, give freely".
Jesus himself showed great enthusiam and hate against those making money doing business in the temple and here these people are doing the same, selling the bible and related material for the majority for the year.
Do people have to be so insecure about their beliefs that they have to shove it down other people's throats and down voting against ozbargain criteria? Especially on a bargain that does not effect them.