Combustible Cladding in Apartments. Thoughts?

• 

  HighAndDry on 11/12/2017 - 14:31

  Link to (presumably the) relevant article for others who're going ???

  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-09/melbourne-residents-co…

• 

  Diji1 on 11/12/2017 - 14:34

  -1

  The list of the affected buildings is not released to the public.

  My thoughts are the government is working to keep property prices high for developers that pay them a few tens of thousands of dollars.

  They are not working to ensure the safety of Australian citizens. You can rest assured there are people in (low chance) danger because of this. If there were not the list would not exist to hide in the first place.

  Australian citizens need to stop voting for any parties that take money to determine their policy. Stop voting Liberal and Labour certainly, they don't represent you, they represent entities that are working against you by taking money from every single Australian.

  Examples: privatised electricity, gas and water. Turnbull lobbying the ACCC to not lower wholesale internet prices ensuring every single citizen pays more for internet to enrich Telstra.

  • 

    HighAndDry on 11/12/2017 - 15:06

    +2

    I think there's a certain degree of melodrama here. I mean, stick to these and most people will be fine:

    1. Don't set fire to stuff;

    2. Have working smoke alarms; and

    3. Have home and contents insurance.

    • 

      Cluster on 11/12/2017 - 15:51

      +2

      "Don't set fire to stuff"

      Problem is you might be a clever person who doesn't set their belongings on fire, but is everyone else living in your high rise apartment as clever as you? Nobody smoking in bed? No curious boys playing with matches? No idiot who still thinks candles are a good source of light during a blackout?

      The London Grenfell fire also taught the public a valuable lesson: if officials tell you to shelter in place, you do the exact opposite.

      • 

        HighAndDry on 11/12/2017 - 16:04

        +2

        Well I've never been one to respect authority - though you raise an interesting point I've noticed: People always say not to trust government, and that governments are sellouts and corrupt (and I don't necessarily even disagree on most of those points), but who do they think sets the regulations that these materials are falling afoul of?

      • 

        Cluster on 11/12/2017 - 16:17

        @0blivion: I have nothing intrinsically against government. It's neither all good nor all bad.

        Regarding the Grenfell fire that brought about the world side search for these dangerous cladding materials, government set the standards, but also government approved the cheaper contract for material that later failed.

        Here is another fine example of people ignoring common sense and following instructions to the letter, leading to well over 100 fatalities:

        "As passengers stayed in their cabins as instructed, the captain and crew members abandoned the ship"

        "As the ship capsized, some passengers followed the announcements to stay put, even as the water came in.[115] Most of the student passengers obeyed the announcements.[116] Some passengers who climbed to the top of the ship or jumped into the water were rescued"

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol

• 

  try2bhelpful on 11/12/2017 - 14:59

  +1

  This is the sort of thing that happens when you outsource inspection of buildings to private industry. You will always get the unscrupulous ones who will sign-off on the buildings and they will be the popular ones because they don't cause a fuss.

  When we had our home reclad we asked the builder to use Colorbond steel and he said he wouldn't touch any of the cheaper cladding. It cost us more but I sleep easier knowing my place won't go up like a candle if we get a fire.

  What a mess, this is like asbestos all over again. I think the Government will end up bailing people out because the issue is enormous. The building companies should be held responsible, but most of them would phoenix themselves rather than incur the costs. Retrofitting the new cladding on existing buildings will be a lot more expensive than using the right stuff in the first place.

  This may not be Royal Commission territory, but the Government should be releasing the report so we know what happened and which buildings are affected. Whilst all this is under wraps the problem just gets bigger.

  Apparently the Federal Government won't ban the importation of the product because people with less than 2 stories can, probably, get out and escape. Now that is a cynical exercise, isn't it. Ban the product so it won't be "accidently" used for building it isn't rated for.

  I feel sorry for all the buyers who find themselves in the middle of this mess.

  • 

    HighAndDry on 11/12/2017 - 15:07

    +1

    This is the sort of thing that happens when you outsource inspection of buildings to private industry. You will always get the unscrupulous ones who will sign-off on the buildings and they will be the popular ones because they don't cause a fuss.

    Doubt this is a factor. It mentions Victorian government buildings also being affected, and they were presumably inspected by government inspectors.

    It's more a case of industry standards not moving as fast as cutting edge fire-safety technology and regulations.

    Ban the product so it won't be "accidently" used for building it isn't rated for.

    This is ridiculous. You can't ban everything that, if used wrongly, will lead to harm. You'd end up banning 99% of imports and likely 99% of stuff that's produced here too.

  • 

    trongy on 11/12/2017 - 15:29

    +1

    Apparently the Federal Government won't ban the importation of the product because people with less than 2 stories can, probably, get out and escape.

    Also the fire brigade can easily extinguish an external fire on a one or two story building.

    Wooden weatherboards are also flammable and continue to be approved for use as cladding on single and double story dwellings.

    Highrise buildings have different fire risks and require different regulations.

    • 

      try2bhelpful on 11/12/2017 - 16:06

      +1

      Please read the ABC news stories on this.

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-04/australian-high-rises-…

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-05/cladding-experts-say-5…

      I would like to know on what basis the Federal Government has deemed this product safe for any buildings.

      This is a report from a Senate committe report into the usage of PE products. You might want to Google it, it makes interesting reading.

      Non-conforming building products
      Interim report: aluminium composite cladding
      September 2017

      3.64 In light of the Grenfell Tower fire tragedy, the committee does not consider
      there to be any legitimate use of PE core ACPs on any building type. The committee
      believes that as there are safe non-flammable and fire retardant alternatives available
      there is no place for PE core ACPs in the Australian market. While Australian Border
      Force and suppliers of ACM are currently unable to determine whether an imported
      building product will be used in a compliant manner, the committee believes a ban on
      importation should be placed on all PE core ACPs. In addition, the sale and use of PE
      core ACPs should be banned domestically.

      Recommendation 1
      3.65 The committee recommends the Australian government implement a total
      ban on the importation, sale and use of Polyethylene core aluminium composite
      panels as a matter of urgency.
      Greater coordination and a national approach to reform

      • 

        HighAndDry on 11/12/2017 - 16:12

        I would like to know on what basis the Federal Government has deemed this product safe for any buildings.

        I dearly wish people would stop with wanting a nanny-state type of government. We live in a liberal democracy, where, at least as I understand it, the principle is still "Everything that is not forbidden is allowed", and not the opposite that "Everything that is not specifically and expressly authorized by government is forbidden."

        Yes, I know that building materials and standards are slightly (and I stress slightly) special, but the general principle still applies.

      • 

        try2bhelpful on 11/12/2017 - 16:52

        -1

        @0blivion: So I put up links from stories by the National Broadcaster and a Senate Committee and that is your reply to a situation that will cost millions and millions of dollars to resolve and is considered a very serious issue by most of the experts, including politicians, fire chiefs, insurance councils and building engineers. Personally, I don't think I need to make any further contribution to this discussion.

      • 

        HighAndDry on 11/12/2017 - 17:11

        @try2bhelpful: Well, I'm afraid I agree. I'd rather hear what your thoughts are, than you just parroting the opinions of others. Here's an excerpt from the first article you linked:

        "It is possible for an expert to sign off that a building meets the code if other safety measures are in place."

        The government doesn't go out and individually check off every potential material to allow them into the country, there's a holistic fire-safety test that a building - including the combination of materials, seals, fire alarms, sprinklers and other factors - must pass before it's issued a fire safety certificate.

        To look at and assess the material in isolation from everything else that goes into the fire safety of a building is a pretty worthless exercise. As an example, if we did that, we wouldn't allow wooden furniture in any apartment units.

      • 

        try2bhelpful on 11/12/2017 - 17:26

        @0blivion: Reports from National Broadcaster and Senate Committee report. You can selectively quote from these articles all you like but the thrust of these reports are all the same.

• 

  myusername on 11/12/2017 - 15:00

  +2

  bunnings sell fire extinguishers

  https://www.bunnings.com.au/our-range/building-hardware/gene…

• 

  [Deactivated] on 11/12/2017 - 15:13

  +1

  Thats why ya shuld buy a free standig house in da boosh!!!