Hi guys, I bought a Breville microwave nearly four years ago and it's sparkling fire when using it.
I called the Breville customer care and they refused to do anything saying it's out of warranty which is 12 months. Now, I know Australian consumer law requires the manufacturers to repair faults within a reasonable timeframe outside the warranty period.
Would you say 4 years is beyond reasonable timeframe for a microwave for warranty purposes?
You need to state model perhaps and most important your purchase cost. Unanswerable otherwise IMHO
Damn my slow typing, beaten by dom.
beaten by dom
No judgements in what you do in your private life.
you don't mess with Dominic Toretto
I said a ten second reply not a ten minute reply!
If an expensive brand, that was a few hundred $, maybe. If a cheap Kmart brand, that was like $50-$100, I'd say not. This is only personal opinion though.
I agree with your pricing vs. expectation structure — seems reasonable.
This ACL is all down to what a reasonable person would expect. If OP can provide cost an argument could be made that it is indeed reasonable for the product to have lasted for that time period.
That first link, though 'official' is trash. This example in particular:
Imagine someone bought a 12-month membership at their local gym. Two months into the contract, the gym closed down. They have the right to a refund or compensation for the remaining 10 months. If the gym closed 10 months into the contract, the same rights might not apply because they have used the gym for most of membership time.
In the latter situation, you'd get pro-rated 2 months back because of breach of contract damages.
Would seem the first link refers to this example -
Imagine someone bought a microwave oven for $400, which had 12 months warranty. After 13 months, it stopped working. The consumer has the right of repair or replacement because it's likely they expected it to last longer. If they bought a microwave for $45 and the same thing happened, the same rights might not apply. The price compared to the time the microwave was likely to last is different.
The second link seems right on the money.
This guy gets it!
I get that, but it's quoting from literally nowhere, and its credibility is suspect because of what I quoted which is just objectively incorrect.
Would you say 4 years is beyond reasonable timeframe for a microwave for warranty purposes?
Hahahaha, yes absolutely.
Good luck trying to enforce ACL if they refuse to repair it
I don't think expecting warranty on a microwave after 4 years is "reasonable", which is where your ACL protects you.
Two years, for sure. Three - pushing it. Four - unless you paid $500+ for it, I would forget it.
Would you say 4 years is beyond reasonable timeframe for a microwave for warranty purposes?
Well its 3 years out of warranty, so no I wouldn't expect warranty under Australian consumer law unless this was a $500 unit.
So how much did you pay for this microwave?
…it's sparkling fire when using it
How bad is the "fire" is is generating? Are you sure it is not sparking because you have put metal in there? From the description, this could be the cause and is what happens when there is extra metal in the oven. It could be from a metal spoon, or foil etc, but the most likely candidate is from decorations to the bowl, e.g. gold leaf stripe on the rim.
Does it look like this:? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHpYlGeTIhU
microwaves ued to last at least 20 years. what a joke.
I paid $99 and it was a factory second but was still covered by manufacturer's warranty. I don't understand why price would matter here. The law is law. I see some of you are laughing because I asked if 4 years was beyond reasonable timeframe. If I don't ask how would I know? And previously I haven't contacted manufacturers even if the product broke just a month after the warranty finished. But this time I thought if I go through the process I would at least know the rules and laws.
I don't understand why price would matter here. The law is law.
The law is that it depends on the item and price.
I paid $99 and it was a factory second
You wouldn't be covered, 4 years for a $99 oven is reasonable.
You wouldn't apply the test against it being "a $99 oven". That price may have been an extremely good bargain price for a top of the line model. If the quality of the top of the line model is such that you would expect it to last for 10 years, then the price you paid is your good fortune, and doesn't factor in to the item's durability assessment. Same as if you paid $0 if it was a present or a prize.
You wouldn't apply the test against it being "a $99 oven".
Context is everything, and I said it depends on both the item and price.
This was a factory second for $99 that lasted 4 years, even if it was a top of the line model it still wouldn't be covered as it lasted a reasonable amount of time.
@Scab: If the top of the line model cost $2000 or more, a reasonable person would expect it to last longer than 4 years, regardless of what you paid for it. My point being you shouldn't be fixated on the price you paid, more so on the quality of the item itself. I agree with your first point, it was the second part I was responding to.
If the top of the line model cost $2000 or more, a reasonable person would expect it to last longer than 4 years, regardless of what you paid for it.
Sure, if it was brand new.
But this is a factory second, a reasonable person wouldn't expect a $99 factory second oven to last longer than 4 years, regardless of the retail price.
@Scab: Define "factory second". This one comes with a full manufacturers warranty, just like a spanking brand new one. Many factory seconds do. Just because it is a factory second, that does not automatically make its quality inferior to a new one. Seconds does not mean it has its door hanging off by one hinge, and held together by packing wire and electrical tape. Seconds are sold for a number of reasons — it could be a return because the last customer was an idiot and couldn't work out how to use it. It may have had a minor fault which has been fixed under warranty. It could have a minor cosmetic blemish on the back or side which you would never see, but which can't be sold as a "perfect". The cardboard box could have become damaged. There may be a dent in the metalwork. In most, if not all cases, they are thoroughly checked by a technician before being sold, and are as good and reliable as a new one. I have bought many seconds in my lifetime, they generally work better, longer and more reliably than a new one off the assembly line, because a human has had to inspect and test the product beyond that done at manufacture, and taken remedial action to rectify the problem. If you look at seconds from Apple or Sony, you would be hard pressed to tell them apart from factory originals. I would expect a seconds iPhone to work and last just as long as a brand new one. Doesn't matter what I paid for it.
Define "factory second".
Do you really think they would sell an expensive oven for only $99 if it was just a "blemish"?
This one comes with a full manufacturers warranty, just like a spanking brand new one.
The warranty expired 3 years ago, and it's not a spanking brand new one.
Do you really think they would sell an expensive oven for only $99 if it was just a "blemish"?
Yes. It does happen. It could be a superseded item, added to the fact there is a defect or blemish, and they are heavily overstocked at the warehouse. They can be heavily discounted at a loss just to get the warehouse space back. It happens all the time. I've bought many a great deal this way.
Either way, you haven't seen the oven in question any more than I have. Neither of us has enough information to assess this one item, but my advice regarding testing durability based on quality is valid, you seem to be looking for any excuse to win your argument and can't see past the price. Ask any Consumer Affairs office and they will agree with me, the price you paid is irrelevant, it is about what a thing of that quality would normally sell for.
The warranty expired 3 years ago, and it's not a spanking brand new one.
I'm not saying it is a brand new one now. I'm saying it came with a new warranty when it was bought, exactly the same as a new one bought at that time would. Therefore you would treat it as a brand new item and ignore or overlook any (non-critical or functional) blemish or defect. It is possible that a brand-new oven bought 3-4 years ago could still be expected to be working now and covered under ACL warranty, indeed many should be. Once again, neither of us have seen it and can't comment whether this one is cheap-and-nasty or a quality item.
I seriously question people in your mindset, that think a fridge needs to be thrown out and re-bought every 3 years, phones every 6 months, appliances every 12 months etc. What sort of hostile environment are you using them in? Not everyone uses their appliances inside a metal foundry, and rightly expects longer life from their appliances. The law is written for your benefit but you argue your hardest to minimise your protections!
Therefore you would treat it as a brand new item and ignore or overlook any (non-critical or functional) blemish or defect.
It's a $99 factory second oven that lasted four years, that's more than reasonable.
I seriously question people in your mindset, that think a fridge needs to be thrown out and re-bought every 3 years
You know nothing about me nor does it have anything to do with this debate.
And for the record, my fridge is over 20 years old and still going strong.
It's a $99 factory second oven that lasted four years, that's more than reasonable.
In your opinion. I'm saying you don't have enough details to determine that. I've demonstrated that by showing a scenario which would make your argument invalid. Read the actual law — it specifically includes factory seconds. It doesn't reduce your entitlements because it is a seconds. Unless the current defect is due to a fault that was brought to your attention when you bought it, it is irrelevant, delete any reference to "factory seconds". The only thing we know for sure is that the OP paid $99. We have no idea of the quality.
I seriously question people in your mindset…
There are lots of people that think like you do. I'm not saying anything personal about you, I'm commenting on the premature disposal mindset.
In your opinion.
In a reasonable person's opinion, 4 years from a $99 factory oven is very reasonable.
The only thing we know for sure is that the OP paid $99. We have no idea of the quality.
For $99 it wouldn't have been a top of the range model.
That's why consumer law takes into account the price of an item.
There are lots of people that think like you do.
Again you seem to think you know me.
And I think like most reasonable people would, that 4 years for a factory second $99 oven is a good run.
@Scab: Sure, whatever, if you say so. Clearly you don't want to understand, and don't want to look beyond your single minded point of view. Go ring Consumer affairs or ACCC and ask them if I'm wrong. I'll wait.
@Scab: I'm with you, Scab.
"Statutory rights have no set time limit – depending
on the price and quality of goods, consumers may
be entitled to a remedy after any manufacturers’ or
extended warranty has expired."
https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Warranties%20and%20refu…
@dom: I've no idea how endotherm managed to keep the argument going so long. ACL clearly says that price is a consideration for how long a product should last, separate from other factors. Which means it goes back to: $99 for a microwave - yeah, lasting 4 years is already pretty bloody good.
Is it actually "catching fire" or just "sparking"? Often a really good clean stops it arcing (which starts fires). Test with just a plain glass containing water inside. Posting a video somewhere would be really helpful.
The following videos explain "Consumer rights for Dummies" :) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE8BB-ioNRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCW6NuLEMNA
How much was it?