Buying a Manual Transmission Car - Suggestion Thread

kenunderscore on 18/10/2017 - 22:58
Last edited 19/10/2017 - 08:56 by 1 other user

Hello Ozbargain,

I've recently done my manual licence test (have been driving for years prior though with an Auto license) and I'm currently driving an auto car. I'm planning to upgrade my car soon to a Honda S2000 which only comes in manual. The majority of Honda S2000 owners are enthusiasts who put a lot of care into their car, and these cars being fairly old (1999), obviously don't run as smoothly as modern manuals. I would hate to take one on a test drive and bunny hop or stall - potentially ruining chances of a sale.

What would you do if you were in my position?

EDIT
Before assuming that I don't know how to drive manual, every manual car is different - and being able to drive a modern manual car (one that you would do your test in) doesn't mean you can drive perfectly in an older manual car.

Automotive

Comments

  • cypher67 on 18/10/2017 - 23:04
    -1

    You really need to give a budget otherwise I might as well suggest a Nissan GTR

    • airal3rt on 18/10/2017 - 23:07
      +9

      You really need to read the post not just the title otherwise I might as well suggest rolling your face across the keyboard

      • cypher67 on 18/10/2017 - 23:11
        +5

        Fair call.

        So TL:DR - How do I buy the car I want without getting embarrassed because I can't really drive a manual?

        Answer: Take someone with you that does drive manual confidently and get them to do the test drive for you

  • airal3rt on 18/10/2017 - 23:06

    You mean you graduated to a full license and are now by default permitted to drive a manual? Get some practice in with a friend/family members car and learn how to drive a manual before thrashing someone else's gearbox in a car they're trying to sell…

    • CMH on 18/10/2017 - 23:10
      +1

      That is true in Vic at least. Full licences are not restricted to auto even if they are restricted on Ps.

    • kenunderscore on 19/10/2017 - 00:08

      Sorry I should have specified:

      I had an Auto license, then did my manual test.

  • altomic on 18/10/2017 - 23:08
    +6

    rent a POS manual for a couple of days. that way you can practice on something which has a crap/worn clutch/gearbox so you know the worst to expect.

    • kenunderscore on 19/10/2017 - 00:11

      This has been the only sensible response so far, I haven't thought of this. Thank you!

  • Yttrium on 18/10/2017 - 23:10
    +6

    Make sure to spend all of your money on a car.

    If you don't have enough money , take a loan.

    This is a high quality investment whose value will only ever go up.

    • cypher67 on 18/10/2017 - 23:12
      +3

      I think the word you are looking for is cars high yielding investment, especially when you are fresh out of Uni

      • CMH on 18/10/2017 - 23:12
        +3

        And working as an investment banker.

        • cypher67 on 18/10/2017 - 23:13
          +3

          To be fair that kinda advice doesn't need to be said anymore, its pretty common knowledge and you should reconsider you career if you dont

      • Yttrium on 18/10/2017 - 23:14

        High quality because the value never goes down. You are guaranteed to not lose money.

        • CMH on 18/10/2017 - 23:16
          +3

          I don't know why but I'm pretty sure that guy was a troll, and probably laughing his ass off every time it gets mentioned.

  • PVA on 18/10/2017 - 23:19
    +4

    where did you get this info from… "obviously don't run as smoothly as modern manuals"?
    not true, are you thinking about cars from the '50s without syncromesh on first gear or something?

    It really sounds like you just need to practice and drive a manual car, or get a friend to do the test drive.

    • kenunderscore on 19/10/2017 - 00:15
      -3

      You would expect a 2017 Honda Civic to be a smoother drive than a 2000 Honda Civic right?

      • fantombloo on 19/10/2017 - 00:51
        +3

        You worry too much. All cars feel different but that doesn't mean you can't drive them. It just takes a few minutes to get to know the particular car you're driving. (Sometimes when I don't drive my partner's car for weeks I need a few moments to get back into it.) Take it easy for the first few minutes and you'll be fine. I suspect no-one will care if you stall it or over-rev a bit on the first take-off as long as you're taking it easy and showing you care.

      • Presence on 19/10/2017 - 06:57
        +3

        I disagree. I've driven lots of older cars. Whilst transmissions do wear out there really hasn't been huge improvements in the last 20 years.

        • Solarlux on 19/10/2017 - 09:30

          Unfortunately manufacturers spend a lot of r&d money on autos as that is the biggest market and little on manuals such that the modern manual has changed little since the introduction of synchromesh on first gear.

      • roguescholar on 19/10/2017 - 08:39

        I would expect that… however… would a 2017 Honda Civic have a better shift feel than an S2000?

        • Euphemistic on 19/10/2017 - 09:47

          I suspect an S2000 would be one of the smoothest shifting cars around, better than a lot of cheaper 'non-drivers' cars.

      • PVA on 19/10/2017 - 13:01

        A manual gear change ( I'm not talking about the whole car) would both be pretty smooth, manuals haven't changed much these last 20 years really. The S2000 was a pretty fancy sports car, prob still better than a current civic.

        • kenunderscore on 19/10/2017 - 20:01

          I suppose my comment is what I've deduced from my own experience with driving different sticks - but hey, here for different perspectives

    • Ryanek on 19/10/2017 - 08:33

      Yeah the old Hyundai Excels had the smoothest manual i've ever driven!

  • [Deactivated] on 19/10/2017 - 00:16

    take ur best mate who can drive a manual, there's no point u even taking it for a test drive if u can't even drive it.

    • Agret on 19/10/2017 - 00:20

      Not to mention if you are an inexperienced manual driver you might not recognize if the drive feels off compared to someone who has years of experience. Definitely recommend getting a friend to drive it for you. My friend drove over to some quiet back streets and taught me how the basics of how to drive it and I liked it so felt confident in my purchase.

      I got my first manual car this year and have never driven manual before buying it (in VIC so don't need a special manual license), I got my friend to drive it for me and we checked it out mechanically before I bought it at his house since he has a hoist. RWC went smooth and I spent a few weeks learning to drive it just around some back streets near my place.

  • adr8 on 19/10/2017 - 00:21

    If you passed the manual test you obviously have the basic skills you will be fine even if you stall it a few times no big deal, if it starts bunny hoping just clutch in and start again.

    • kenunderscore on 19/10/2017 - 00:24

      Shouldn't have an issue with stalling or hopping but it's always possible sadly - even drivers with years of experience still stall or hop from time to time. I guess i'm mostly worried about damaging someone else's pride and joy.

      • adr8 on 19/10/2017 - 00:27
        +3

        You won't do any damage on a short test drive especially if you remember to clutch in when it starts hopping and start again. Also let the owner drive it first and when you get to some quiet back streets you take over.

  • slow on 19/10/2017 - 08:21

    As you said all manual can be slightly different - heavier or lighter clutch / accelerator etc etc . I have been driving manuals for 20 years and when you get into one for the first time it can take a few take-offs before you get it perfect. Maybe this is just my experience, but sportier cars tend to have heavier clutches. Just give a bit more gas the first time…. better to over rev then stall.

    Just go for it.

  • ESEMCE on 19/10/2017 - 08:42
    +1

    The technology is identical between a modern manual and an older manual. You'll be fine.
    Quite likely the grip point in the used car will be more vague and you might let it slip a bit too much, only if you panic at this point will you bunny hop!

    Something I was never taught when learning was to "blip" the throttle (accelerator) in neutral - with the clutch out (the important point) - when changing down a gear.
    You do this so that the engine revs spin up the clutch to match or even exceed the required revs to match the speed of the tyres. Thereby reducing the clutch wear when you get into gear and avoiding that lurch for a nice smooth downshift.

    • pegaxs on 19/10/2017 - 09:26

      "blip" the throttle (accelerator) in neutral…

      It's called double clutching and is totally unnecessary in a car with a synchro box. You're making no net saving on your clutch by doing it, and possibly mis-matching revs in the process. It's a thing ricer bois like to do in their hotted up JDM cars so they can listen to exhaust notes, nothing more.

      Now, if you were talking about doing this in say, a Kenworth instead of a Honda, then yes. Revs have to be matched in a non-synchro gear box or you end up making a lot of noise and missing gears. It certainly has nothing to do with "clutch longevity".

      Source: I drive trucks and cars as part of my living. I also spent a large chunk of my younger years racing cars and rebuilding gearboxes.

      • ESEMCE on 19/10/2017 - 10:14

        While not necessary, you get a smoother change and it totally makes sense to reduce slip in the clutch under load.

        • pegaxs on 19/10/2017 - 10:47

          It also takes longer to make a double clutch down shift. If your vehicle is lurching on down change, you are releasing the clutch too fast.

          Matching engine revs in a synchro box does very little to save the clutch in the long term overview of clutch wear. To get the most out of double clutching, you would need to know the relationship to engine revs, road speed and gearbox ratios. Between downshifts, you could be over revving the engine speed compared to gearbox speed and in turn the clutch still need to take up the difference.

          In a truck, you need to double clutch both up and down gears. This is because of the lack of synchromesh dogs and the sheer weight of the spinning components inside the box. In comparison, car gearboxes are quite light and changes on internal shaft speeds are easily applied.

          In a car, like an S2000, double clutching is a waste of time, slows down the change time, makes the change more complicated than it needs to be and saves minimal wear, as wear is transferd to the clutch system and thrust bearing having to do twice the amount of work it doesn’t need too.

          TL;DR: Double clutching on downshift in a car is pointless. That is, unless you like listening to your exhaust pop and your blow of valve vent to atmosphere…

  • supnigs super skids on 19/10/2017 - 08:57
    +2

    Most s2000 have thrashed boxes and stuffed synchros from hard downshift. If you are lucky you could get a good one but nah. They were quite rare from the start so your chances are bad. It doesn't help if you are planning on testing it yourself too. Just saying

    • HeWhoKnows on 19/10/2017 - 11:33

      Good reason to take a very experienced manual car driver with them

  • manshrew on 19/10/2017 - 09:05
    +3

    Pretty sure the S2000 won't have a Non-synchro or Roadranger gearbox.
    If you can drive manual, you'll be fine.

    • BartholemewH on 20/10/2017 - 18:32

      Straight cut dog box with a brass button clutch from factory. No granny shifting at race wars.

      • manshrew on 21/10/2017 - 09:43

        Don't worry, pink slips against my Jetta. There's no way he has $100,000 worth of upgrades under the hood.

  • avplol on 19/10/2017 - 09:30
    +4

    I've driven a lot of manual cars, sports, regular, and racing. I wasn't aware of any difference in the age of the car. Sure, it differs from model to model, but not so much that you need to prepare for it.

    If you are confident in driving any manual car, you'll quickly acclimate to another. If it's a racing, or sportier kind of clutch, you might stall, but I wouldn't judge someone for it.

    Don't sweat it. Go, test, and you'll get it quickly enough. If you aren't confident with manual though, get some practice, because sports/racing clutches can be tough. There's very little soft grab distance: it's just on/off almost.

    • kenunderscore on 19/10/2017 - 19:56

      It's refreshing to hear this, thank you. A lot of S2000 owners love switching to Exedy sport clutches, and im not sure of the drastic differences in how to handle one until what you mentioned. Thanks for your comment.

  • Euphemistic on 19/10/2017 - 09:51
    +2

    I'll repeat what others have said. Any manual will feel different. You'll get used to it after a couple of shifts, at least enough for a test drive. It would be almost expected that you'll get the first couple of shifts a bit off. Typically it's only the take off change that is the tricky one, the rest are pretty easy unless you are driving hard/fast.

    I've switched between two manual cars I've owned on the same day several times and mucked it up for the first few changes until my legs work out which car I'm in, then it's all good.

    • Euphemistic on 19/10/2017 - 11:41

      in addition, I've stalled a car or two on a test drive. It's part of the 'fun'

  • Speckled Jim on 19/10/2017 - 10:05
    +1

    I'm led to believe the S2000 felt and drove like a contemporary Civic until VTEC activation (6K?). Drive a manual ED-EK Civic for an idea. Standard clutch is light and progressive.

    Main difference with the S2K is much shorter throw gearlever, combined with higher transmission tunnel fascia. And RWD, so don't test drive in wet weather to be safe. If the exhaust is louder than stock and/or the top is down, you may find takeoffs smoother and easier as you have the assistance of engine sound.

    Good luck, have fun.

    • kenunderscore on 19/10/2017 - 20:19

      Have driven a few manual EG and EK Civics before, and I've only been fortunate to experience being behind the wheel of an S2000 twice. I guess other than what you mentioned, there's also the shorter gear ratios & final drive. Funnily enough the louder stock exhaust note did help tremendously with shifting in the S2000. I guess I was overthinking before posting this, but nonetheless, these cars are an engineering masterpiece and need great care. Thanks.

      • Euphemistic on 20/10/2017 - 09:30

        these cars are an engineering masterpiece and need great care.

        Nope, these cars were built as sports cars, to be driven like sports cars. They need to be driven with vigour.

        • kenunderscore on 20/10/2017 - 12:49

          They need to be driven with vigour.

          I agree completely! Even though these engines are bulletproof, a decade of thrashing starts to take its tolls. I see these cars as a responsibility, just as one would with an old school Mustang

  • btech on 19/10/2017 - 10:24
    +1

    Several people with the same good advice here. Listen to them. All manuals will feel different. The main thing is, try not to be nervous and don't talk yourself into stalling/mucking it up. It's actually all in your head. My number one advice is, don't rush, take it slow, find the friction point and have a couple of clutch-in -> find friction point -> clutch in practice while stationary. You'll see the revs drop slightly when you've got the point where the clutch engages. Get a feel for this before pulling away. Don't try to "drive it like normal" but ease into it. It will take you a few minutes to get used to the clutch operation on a new car. Of course having more experience would be beneficial, but don't let your head convince you that it'll be hard or that you'll screw it up because then you will. Just take your time and you will be fine.

  • HeWhoKnows on 19/10/2017 - 11:31
    +1

    What a LOAD of RUBBISH!
    As an inexperienced manual car driver please do NOT try to preach to experienced manual car drivers.
    ALL MANUALS ARE THE SAME!
    They all have a steering wheel, brake pedal, clutch pedal and accelerator as well as a gear stick.
    And as far as I have experienced 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear are always in the same position.
    Yes, the clutch will feel different from one car to another but that is quickly sorted out after 2 to 4 clutch movements.
    Anyway, to answer your question, if you lack the experience (which you do) take someone with you who has been driving a manual for a number of years for a second opinion because otherwise you wont be able to tell if the clutch or gear linkages are showing signs of wear.
    Good luck!

  • HeWhoKnows on 19/10/2017 - 11:50

    Best advise: Dont buy the first car you test drive.
    Make sure you drive a few of them to get some driving experience with this car.

    Rule of thumb: If is doesnt feel right then dont buy it regardless of what the seller tells you. You need to be comfortable and confident with the car you are buying

  • [Deactivated] on 19/10/2017 - 13:20
    +2

    First off gears are not always in the same position.

    Second, you haven't driven a manual till you drive an old VW Kombi van.

    • pegaxs on 20/10/2017 - 08:10

      Oh dear lord! I wouldn’t wish old VW gear boxes on anyone. Kind of brings back PTSD…

    • whitewatermelon on 21/10/2017 - 10:50

      Ha ha ha yes!!!
      Driven a kombi. Driven an old beetle. Made the mistake one time of dropping it in to a non-European car servicing place & they had to ring me because they didn't know how to put it in reverse!!

  • Oz8argain on 19/10/2017 - 15:21
    +1

    You are now a knob fiddler :)

  • BertieBrown on 19/10/2017 - 21:26
    +1

    Ultimately I think you have to accept that you’ll have some limitations when it comes to driving a manual, which is fine, nobody starts off super confident or completely able to drive every manual with ease or finesse.

    My suggestion would be to get as much practice in as you can on different manual vehicles. If you have a friend who has a manual, ask them if you could take it for a spin.

    As far as bunny hopping or stalling, well, if the seller wants to make a sale that shouldn’t be an issue.

  • DiscoJango on 20/10/2017 - 18:34

    guys, im used to going through my local maccas drive thru however next week im going to one ive never been in before.

    in case you didn't know, every maccas drive thru is different and just because you perfectly navigate one particular drive thru it doesn't mean you can instantly drive thru another with ease

    now my local has a straight, a hard left and then a hard right. this new one has a few more corners and straights. it also has some speed humps which arent as smooth as my local maccas one. i would hate to scratch a wheel or worse, get stuck on one of the tight corners

    what would you do if you were in my position?

    ps: no need for any ridicule, just honest to goodness, fair dinkum maccas drive thru do's and donts

    cheers

  • BartholemewH on 20/10/2017 - 18:34
    +2

    I'd be more worried about swat coming into my house and disrespecting my whole family coz of that narc Toretto.

    • DiscoJango on 20/10/2017 - 18:35

      word on the street is he never narked on nobody?

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