Recommendations for Which Ute to Go for

teacherer on 14/10/2017 - 22:59
Last edited 17/10/2017 - 08:35

edit currently considering a 2015 prado for 40k-50k,which I could sell in 5 years.

G'day guys
The mrs and I are graduating at the end of this year and my car is on its last legs. We're moving out west to teach and I'm chasing a 4x4 ute.
I'm totally new to shopping for a four wheel drive and am starting to prep for buying in February next year.

At this stage I'm considering:
- Mazda BT-50 GT dual cab which is $52 000
- Isuzu D-max LS-U which is $55 000
- Toyota Hilux SR5 which is $62 000
I'm not that keen on a triton though I hear they're great, we're at the stage where we can spend a bit more. I've thought about a ranger or Colorado but would go the hilux over them I think.
I'm thinking of automatic and diesel.

We'll be using it for going camping and trailers pretty often, I'll need light bars/spotties etc. for roos and a bull bar.

I understand this might not be the site for looking at a new car, but I'm not keen on buying a used 4x4 that might have been flogged etc, and I can probably trade my car in.

I'd love if anyone had any thoughts to share with me and recommendations or advice.

Thanks for helping me guys

Automotive

Comments

  • mskeggs on 14/10/2017 - 23:36
    +3

    Take a look at the reviews in 4WD magazines, e.g. http://unsealed4x4.com.au/

    Personally, I would rather a 4WD for a daily driver than a ute. While obviously designed for load carrying, they ride hard.
    A friend recently bought a BT-50 new and is pleased with it. His conclusion was the Hilux is the best, but costly. The BT-50 was better value.
    I can't justify the substantial depreciation you get with a new car, and I appreciate your worries over used, but I don't think they trump the $20k you will lose in depreciation if you hold the vehicle for a few years.

    How much camping are you doing at the moment, and what vehicle do you need for the places you go? Taking some learning from your current experience might point you where you need. Most people don't need half the 4WD features they have, but pay a lot of money 'in case' they one day decide to go across the Tanami.
    For what its worth, we drive an old Prado which has been a magnificent vehicle, but we don't go anywhere that isn't a 'road', yet get to visit some pretty nice camping spots.

    • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 10:03
      +1

      G'day mskeggs. Thanks for taking the time to answer me.

      Take a look at the reviews in 4WD magazines, e.g. http://unsealed4x4.com.au/

      -I'll take a look at subscribing to a magazine and check out that site.

      Personally, I would rather a 4WD for a daily driver than a ute. While obviously designed for load carrying, they ride hard.

      -It is for my daily driver, however, the mrs is really keen on the ute not the SUV (is that how I should refer to them).

      I can't justify the substantial depreciation you get with a new car, and I appreciate your worries over used, but I don't think they trump the $20k you will lose in depreciation if you hold the vehicle for a few years.

      -I will definitely keep an eye out for a used car but am leaning towards new, I can't really explain why, probably just because it's my first real car. I am open to looking around though, for sure. The depreciation doesn't bother me too much because I want it for at least 10 years, but buying just after the bulk of the depreciation would be a good idea.

      How much camping are you doing at the moment, and what vehicle do you need for the places you go? Taking some learning from your current experience might point you where you need.

      -I'm gonna sound like a dick but…
      At the moment we haven't camped since convincing the mrs dad to take us to the beach back in year 10, but the only thing out west to do is camping and fishing and we are definitely keen to get into it both with the wife and future kids, but my colleagues too.

      Most people don't need half the 4WD features they have, but pay a lot of money 'in case' they one day decide to go across the Tanami.

      -It's exactly that situation of just in case, but if there is only 10k or so in it, I'd rather get the top tier model.

      let me know your thoughts :)

      • mskeggs on 15/10/2017 - 11:08
        +36

        I'm going to give you some more philosophical advice to begin.
        There are really 3 or 4 types of camping.
        1 - hike into the wilderness carrying everything you need.
        2 - stop for a night or two at various places along your journey (touring)
        3 - setting up your camp at a caravan park for a 2 week stay near the beach
        4 - setting up your camp for multi-night stays in the bush or free camps

        The set up you need varies greatly amongst these options. If, for example, you spend $60k on a camper trailer, fridge etc. for number 4 you have almost nothing you need for number 1. If you do 2 and 3 you can spend under $10k for a great set up.

        Literally every single person I know has gone through several iterations of their favoured camp setup. If you start with a really costly set up that you need to swap later because it meets your imagined needs, but not the real needs you find you have when you are actually out there, then it is a costly exercise to swap.

        Take a look at the magazines, the one I linked has all issues online free. You'll see there is heaps on offer.

        Now to swing back to the ute. I spent a very uncomfortable 30mins in the back seat of the new BT-50 I mentioned earlier as we bounced down a badly rutted road. It shook my teeth loose as the hard leaf springs in the back are designed to carry tonnes of tray load, not give a soft ride.
        Driving the same stretch in my Prado was fine (and no doubt the front bucket seats were a bit better).

        The reason I mention this, is while the vision of taking off into the bush is great, two hours into driving on corrugations might convince you that yeah, you can get to 90% of the good stuff without bush bashing! And if you reach that conclusion after you spent $100k on a ute and camper when you actually needed something much less you are stuck paying it off for years!

        If I was moving to a new town I'd wait till I was there to buy. If it is a big place like Dubbo or Orange you will get as good a deal as in Sydney, and be supporting the locals (they will notice!). You might find you are being invited out camping with new friends that requires a different setup to what you currently have in mind.
        And showing up in a small town with a shiny new ute with (sorry) no idea of what you are doing just confirms to country people that city folk are soft and have more money than sense. People will talk and judge!

        On the other hand, showing up in an old camry or holden or whatever, and talking about your desire to get a ute for a bit of camping will give you an ice breaker with every person in town, as they share their opinions and tips.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 11:28
          +12

          This is all good advice, IMO.

        • RockyRaccoon on 16/10/2017 - 14:41
          +3

          On the other hand, showing up in an old camry or holden or whatever, and talking about your desire to get a ute for a bit of camping will give you an ice breaker with every person in town, as they share their opinions and tips

          Best bit of advice you can give.

          Also those in the area will invite you out to the farm/bush and show you around, when they also will share the advice.

  • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 00:35
    +2

    I don't think you can go wrong with the Mazda or the Toyota. They both have great reputations for reliability. I'm a Toyota man myself and wouldn't buy anything else. I think i would struggle to justify the price tag of an SR5 over an SR though. I've had two Hiluxes and two landcruisers in my time. Currently have a 2010 dual cab Hilux. We do a fair bit of camping. Went to Cape York in July this year.

    I'm with Skeggs, i could never justify buying new, either. Unless it's a tax write off, i don't think it makes sense.

    If you're serious about camping you need to think hard about what your setup is going to be like. For example I'd recommended a tray back over a style side. Throw an aluminium canopy on it and your camping gear is sorted.

    If you're planning on towing a decent size caravan i think a dual cab is too small. Even though they have large towing capacities these days, they are bloody dangerous towing anything over 2.5t. So if you're going to tow anything bigger than a camper trailer, bite the bullet and buy a landcruiser.

    Get a decent bullbar and a set of spotties. You don't need more than one set. Most people go overboard with lights. Just get one good set. Make sure you're well insured.

    Let me know if you have any other questions.

    • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 10:07

      I think i would struggle to justify the price tag of an SR5 over an SR though

      -So it'd be justifying that 10k for the Hilux.

      Are you able to put simply the difference between the SR and the SR5? The comparison tables on the website were bonkers.

      i could never justify buying new, either. Unless it's a tax write off, i don't think it makes sense.

      -It is in fact going to be salary sacrifice which I think is a tax write off.

      If you're serious about camping you need to think hard about what your setup is going to be like. For example I'd recommended a tray back over a style side. Throw an aluminium canopy on it and your camping gear is sorted.

      -We're even new to the camping side of things so I think it will be a lot of learning as we go unfortunately.

      If you're planning on towing a decent size caravan i think a dual cab is too small. Even though they have large towing capacities these days, they are bloody dangerous towing anything over 2.5t. So if you're going to tow anything bigger than a camper trailer, bite the bullet and buy a landcruiser.

      -Damn, I was considering having it for an RV but that would be 30 years away anyway, so I'm not too worried. But that is something I didn't think of so thanks for that.

      One of my main concerns is how it'll drive as a daily driver. Mainly because we'll be doing 4 hour drives over barely sealed roads fortnightly

      Thanks for your time.

      • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 11:25
        +5

        The differences between the SR and the SR5 are pretty things and comfort things. For example the SR5s have all carpet. The SRs have vinyl floors. I know what you're thinking, but talking from experience, when you're dealing with dust, sand, mud and especially little kids, vinyl is the way to go. It's not as luxurious, but it's way more practical. SR5s also have wider, allow wheels and arch flares to go with them. They look a little tougher, but they don't improve off road performance or anything. You'll also pay more per tire to replace them when they're larger, and if you've never owned a 4x4 before, tyre costs of 3x a "normal" car is something you'll need to get used to quickly. There will be other comfort additions like heated seats, electric seats, sat nav (although they both might have these these days) etc. You've gotta look at what you get extra on the SR5 and decide if any of it is actually useful, practical stuff. If you're heading out west practicality is far more important than luxury stuff.

        Oh, and don't buy a dark colour, especially not black. You'll thank me later.

        I'm not an expert on salary sacrifice, but buying new could be an option. Specifically ask your financial adviser (and you'll need to see one before they'll salary sacrifice for you) what the differences are between buying new and 2 years old.

        If you're new to camping, you have some big decisions to make, and most people go round in circles with it. Do you want to go minimal, that is, tents, swags etc? Mid range, like a chinese hard-floor camper? A more expensive, higher quality camper? Or caravan-style, which isn't really camping and it really limits where you can get to? Do you want to stick to caravan parks (full facilities) or focus more on national parks (toilets if you're lucky) or be fully self sufficient? My advice is, if you haven't been camping before, try to organise to go camping with a friend or family member who knows what they're doing, for a weekend, and experience what it's like. Explain to them what you're doing so they can help you out. You might need to buy a small tent and an esky, but get out there and give it a go and you'll begin to work out what you like and what you can live with. Your partner might have some pretty strong opinions on this, too.

        Forget about 30 years down the track. I guarantee you won't own this car by then.

        Hope that helps.

        • mskeggs on 15/10/2017 - 11:29
          +1

          This is all spot on.

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 13:02

          The differences between the SR and the SR5 are pretty things and comfort things. For example the SR5s have all carpet. The SRs have vinyl floors. I know what you're thinking, but talking from experience, when you're dealing with dust, sand, mud and especially little kids, vinyl is the way to go. It's not as luxurious, but it's way more practical. SR5s also have wider, allow wheels and arch flares to go with them. They look a little tougher, but they don't improve off road performance or anything. You'll also pay more per tire to replace them when they're larger, and if you've never owned a 4x4 before, tyre costs of 3x a "normal" car is something you'll need to get used to quickly. There will be other comfort additions like heated seats, electric seats, sat nav (although they both might have these these days) etc. You've gotta look at what you get extra on the SR5 and decide if any of it is actually useful, practical stuff. If you're heading out west practicality is far more important than luxury stuff.

          • This stuff is all obviously not essential but depending on the price I'd still very much like to have.

          Oh, and don't buy a dark colour, especially not black. You'll thank me later.

          • I really wanted gunmetal grey :( lol

          I'm not an expert on salary sacrifice, but buying new could be an option. Specifically ask your financial adviser (and you'll need to see one before they'll salary sacrifice for you) what the differences are between buying new and 2 years old.

          • We'll be seeing one over christmas for sure

          Type of camping off that bat I think finding a beautiful spot to spend a few days and drive to nearby lakes etc.
          But probably needing a 4x4 to get there

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 13:28

          @science-teacher:

          So that rules caravans out. So you need to establish whether a tent will do the job in the one spot for a week, or whether a camper trailer is more suitable. If you have a camper trailer you can get away with a tow vehicle with less internal space, like a Prado or a Fortuner, for all your gear as you can store most of your stuff in the trailer. I'm talking about things like a fridge, kitchen/cooking stuff, drinking water, chairs, tables etc. If you want to do tent camping, everything needs to fit in your car. This is where a dual cab is a better choice, IMO. A tray with a big aluminium canopy can fit so much more than the back of a Prado, and it can handle a bit of weight much better. By the time you put an esky/fridge and 50L of water in a 4x4 wagon, you won't have much space left.

          Then you have to consider touring. If road trips with regular stops of 1-3 nights are a possibility, you need to make sure your setup is adaptable for this. For example, soft floor camper trailers are great when you're going to a spot for a week, then packing up and heading home. But you would never set up and pack up a soft floor over and over on a road trip. It's just too much effort and takes too much time. So a hard floor or forward fold camper trailer might be a better choice. Or if tent camping is your thing, swags that are quick to setup and pack up, or something like an OzTent for the same reason.

          Like I said, there's no way you'll know until you've done it for a while. We started with a cheap tent only, before we had kids, then we bought an OzTent, then we bought a soft floor camper. Now we mostly do touring so the soft floor hardly gets used. We generally just take the oztent. The hilux is setup with fridge, freezer, kitchen area, water tank, clothes drawers etc. Now we'd like a forward fold camper or a Patriot style roof-top camper trailer for a 5 month NT/WA trip we're planning next year.

          Good luck with it.

  • CalmLemons on 15/10/2017 - 02:13

    The Hilux for reliability but after haggling if it's still $10k more than the Mazda get the Mazda.

    We use workmates at work and some of them go $140k with only 1 oil change a brake pad change because by the time someone realises that's how far they've gone.

    Don't think you will get a decent second hand one though as people rarely want to let go.

    We service a lot of the caravan industry - most of them are going rangers though now because of the towing capacity. Landcruisers are way too big and cumbersome on windy roads.

    • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 07:21

      On a windy road, towing a caravan, a landcruiser is exactly what you want. Rangers have large towing capacity but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to tow big weights with them. It's just a marketing ploy.

    • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 10:11

      The Hilux for reliability but after haggling if it's still $10k more than the Mazda get the Mazda.

      -I'm wondering how much 10K will mean to me. I'm thinking for even 8k I would go to the Hilux. I just don't want to get a bt-50 and regret it.

      -How do they compare to workmates mechanics wise? Similar engines and whatnot (excuse my ignorance). If so your comment

      We use workmates at work and some of them go $140k with only 1 oil change a brake pad change because by the time someone realises that's how far they've gone.

      -makes me pretty confident in the hilux.

      Don't think you will get a decent second hand one though as people rarely want to let go.

      -Your comment on used ones also confirms my bias of wanting to buy new, lol.

      We service a lot of the caravan industry - most of them are going rangers though now because of the towing capacity. Landcruisers are way too big and cumbersome on windy roads

      -People seem to think the opposite of the landcruisers vs the hilux in towing caravans so that's an interesting point for discussion.

      • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 11:33

        On the last point, Rangers are far cheaper than Landcruisers with the same (!) towing capacity. They are a far smaller car towing the same large weight. It's not a good idea, but money talks.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/10/2017 - 23:59

          Ranger 'far' smaller than a land cruiser? I think not. Check your specs again.

      • sv123 on 17/10/2017 - 11:19

        If you are looking at Prado's also consider Pajero's, they can be slightly cheaper and are great 4wd vehicles.

  • TheBilly on 15/10/2017 - 05:38

    I would go for the Toyota Hilux - slightly used aka 10,000k etc. That way you will effectively have a ute where the main depreciation is done and it will hold value because its a toyota. The rest of them all depreciate rapidly. If you are going to buy one of the ones that depreciate rapidly you should then start considering the navara and triton as there is less money to depreciate on. I myself purchased a brand new D40 ST Navara and have done nothing but change oils and general service for 140,000k. If I could do it over again, I would go Hilux purely based on curiosity, reputation and the fact the SR5 has a rear difflock, otherwise its navaras for the rest of my life. Awesome car.

    • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 10:13

      That sounds like a damn good idea, but I just want new so bad. I'll definitely consider it and look around.

      So depreciation is quicker on others over the hilux, I can see that.

      I would go Hilux purely based on curiosity, reputation and the fact the SR5 has a rear difflock

      Pretty much the reason I'm considering the extra 10k, don't want to regret it. With 2 incomes the 10k seems like less.

      its navaras for the rest of my life. Awesome car

      I've heard the same thing about tritons

      • TheBilly on 15/10/2017 - 12:46

        I would also recommend - do what you think you will like before outlaying so much cash. I.e. I thought I would really be in to the hard 4x4 type driving plus overnight camps to continue the next day on rough tracks. Turns out I hated it and my style of camping was more setup in a pituresque destination for 4 days and relax with minor comforts. So in saying, I saved alot on not modifying my vehicle and adding all the lights and bars etc. Dont want to jynx it, but you might end up hating fishing camping etc. But you dont want to spend 60k on a car to find out. Go to local spots where you dont need a 4x4 and borrow a normal car off someone and camp it out - see how you feel about the whole thing. Before buying a trailer hire one, before buying a boat rent one. You get the logic…

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 12:59

          I think I'm probably along the same lines as you.
          Get to a destination for a few days, but drive to places nearby.

          I can see what you mean by try before you buy

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 13:02

          This is good advice. I've owned 4x4s for nearly 20 years. I don't enjoy "going 4x4ing" just for the sake of it. I don't find it fun and it stresses me out. I'll do it to get to a camping spot or to experience a location but i don't purely go out for a 4x4. Same with sand driving, it stresses me out. I'll do it to go camp at a nice beach spot but I'd never go and drive up the beach just for fun.

          For example, we went to the Cape earlier this year. We didn't do the OTT. Not because my car wasn't capable, but because i had no desire to do the hard 4x4ing required. There are some nice spots along the OTT to check out and we did so some short bits of it to see a few locations, but there's nothing at the end of the OTL except the vehicle drowning potential that is Nolans.

          So that being the case, there's no real need for me to have stuff like diff locks or a winch because i would very rarely use them.

          It's worth thinking about, but you won't know until you try it.

  • chumlee on 15/10/2017 - 07:26
    +3

    Assuming you are young being you are graduating shortly.

    Do you have a HECS debt? Are you borrowing another $50K+ for a vehicle or do you have tbe cash?

    • JIMB0 on 15/10/2017 - 07:37
      +2

      Going into debt to buy a brand new car is all the rage these days with young people.

      • ely on 15/10/2017 - 08:38
        +4

        "We're at the stage where we can spend a bit more"

        "The mrs and I are graduating at the end of this year"

        One of these things is almost certainly not true, but what can you do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 09:36
      -2

      Do you have a HECS debt? Are you borrowing another $50K+ for a vehicle or do you have tbe cash?

      That is definitely a good point, however let me explain my situation more.
      I didnt explain in the post because I was looking for advice on the car and not really on financial and living situations.

      We've saved $50 000 working full time while at uni

      Our rent out west will be $50 a week for 3 years for a house and no electricity.
      Our combined income will be $150 000 gross.
      We'll be using a salary sacrifice for it to bring taxable income down.

      Since we won't be looking to buy a house for 3 years and are able to pay it off relatively quickly.

      We've decided we want to buy our 'forever' car that will suit having kids in 2 year, now.

      "We're at the stage where we can spend a bit more"
      "The mrs and I are graduating at the end of this year"
      One of these things is almost certainly not true, but what can you do ¯_(ツ)_/¯

      • I think it is safe to say they are both true.

      Thanks JIMB0 and elyobo.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 13:55
        +4

        Forever car? lol. Invest your money. I also have no idea what benefit you think salary sacrifice will give you on $75K income.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 14:09

          No, you don't have any idea, and without detail on his position I'm not sure why you would comment, unless you have some constructive feedback…

        • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 14:14
          +2

          @wombat81: Well I do, I read his posts. I have a good idea.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 14:19

          @Burnertoasty: lol. Ok. From a couple of posts on an internet forum…

          So where's the constructive feedback? Here, I'll start for you:

          Salary sacrificing a $50k car at a total income of $150k per year is a bad idea because…

        • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 14:22
          +5

          @wombat81: Because that's a combined income and you aren't taxed on combined income. It means his actual income is probably $75k and I'm not sure he'll get any benefits for SS on $75k.

          My constructive feedback is don't buy the car. He's just out of uni, earning below average income, and he's going to take on a mountain of debt. He should be wealth building, not building someone else's wealth.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 14:27

          @Burnertoasty: much more constructive. I wouldn't be outlaying what he's proposing either, but no doubt there's a lot more to his position that we don't know about.

          So he obviously still needs a good reliable, capable car for the position he will be in. What would you suggest in terms of what he should spend? IMO, taking out a personal loan for $25k isn't a whole lot better. The banks will cut you to pieces on a loan like that.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 14:30
          +1

          @wombat81: Why would you take out a loan to buy a car? That's just stupid.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 19:11
          +1

          @Burnertoasty: So what options are left? Should we break out the balaclavas and crowbars? Or maybe OP should settle for a BMX instead…

          Unfortunately the vast majority of people have no choice but to get a personal loan to buy a half decent car. OP is lucky he's at least got he option of salary sacrifice. Most people don't get that.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 19:19
          +2

          @wombat81: Accountants correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there is any point in salary sacrificing on a $75k income. As for what choice do you have? Save up the money and buy a car you can afford for cash. Do not buy a car that you can't afford on credit, and make someone else wealthy. There is a big perception in society that people deserve to treat themselves to cars they could otherwise not afford, and pay huge interest to do it. Adding in the fact that the car is a depreciating asset, you put yourself in a very bad position very quickly. Take loans out for things that appreciate, property being the prime example. The OP said he had $50k saved up. Put $30k of that into an index fund, and take it out when you want to buy a house. With the other $20k buy the best car you can afford. It will be second hand, and it won't be a 4wd, but you are not in the financial position to buy one of those cars. You will see this, when you turn up to your school on the first day, and see all the teachers, many of whom will earn double your income, driving cars that are worth a whole lot less than a $50k Hilux.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 19:33
          +2

          @Burnertoasty: good advice. I personally wouldn't be spending anymore than $25k. But like i said, i don't know OPs full situation.

          I think he needs a decent car for travelling the western highways, though. Something with a bit of frontal protection for the roos and something reliable.

          I would suggest the OP check out a few government auctions and see what $25k will get you.

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 20:56
          +1

          @Burnertoasty:
          @Burnertoasty I appreciate your concern and have taken on board what you've said. Cheers

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 20:58

          @wombat81:
          My wife happens to be obsessed with grand vitaras. 30k new, 20k for a newish used one.
          Do you have much knowledge on these? be worth grabbing until we are a few years in for something better.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 21:02

          @science-teacher: not a fan myself, but not the worst car out there. If you're only going to keep it for a few years, maybe.

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 21:08

          @wombat81: fair enough. I haven't been able to have a good look about it but you sound switched on and could give me a steer away from a dud :)

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 21:09

          @Burnertoasty: to be fair
          Out of the 6 teachers out here
          1 drives a bt50, 1 a Triton, 1 an ss and 1 a range rover (edit Land rover)
          I get where you're coming from though
          I'm still learning about what's involved with salary sacrifices etc. I'm just trying to get a feel for the best way to go about doing what's best for me with a car about to cark it :)

        • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 21:28

          @science-teacher: A Range Rover? A teacher? Does not compute. Rich husband maybe.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 21:31

          @Burnertoasty: depends. Could be an exclusive school.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 21:41

          @wombat81: A Range Rover starts at $200k. It could be La Rosey in Switzerland and no teacher would be driving a Range Rover. People who drive $200k+ cars have high 7 figure incomes. If they don't they are morons.

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 21:52

          @Burnertoasty: land rover then
          My bad
          Not really the point

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 22:21

          @Burnertoasty: Seems like almost everyone is a moron in your eyes.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 22:21
          +1

          @wombat81: 100% true.

      • Yttrium on 15/10/2017 - 20:31
        +2

        invest your money in things that go up in value. Not things that go down in value.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 20:57
          +5

          Easy to say, but at the end of the day you need a good reliable car to get you to work. You cant just not have a decent car because "it's not a good investment". Your boss won't buy they excuse when you can't get to work because your car broke down, again….

          No one in earth wants to get a loan for a car but for many, many people there is simply no alternative.

        • Yttrium on 15/10/2017 - 21:01
          +1

          Fair points.

          But surely a reliable car can be had for much less than 53k-63k that OP is considering.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 21:04
          +1

          @Yttrium: definitely agree with this. But like i said earlier, we don't know his full situation.

      • wozz on 16/10/2017 - 12:26

        I think you'll find you should always invest 80k into something as high yield as a 4wd. I dont know how easy it is to find an 80k 4wd second hand, so I'd stick with new. Your colleagues will be impressed

        • teacherer on 16/10/2017 - 12:34
          -1

          Why not 120k?

        • wozz on 16/10/2017 - 12:35
          +1

          @science-teacher:

          Im pretty sure 80k is considered the golden amount to invest in a car, particularly if you're a banker (probably doesn't apply to you).

          Someone might be able to correct me if im wrong.

          Gosh dont know why i got negged, someone musnt know their high yield investments

        • teacherer on 16/10/2017 - 12:44
          +1

          @wozz: 120k will yield 1/3 more investment der

        • abuch47 on 16/10/2017 - 21:33

          Meta. Do bimmers do 4x4s yet?

        • Euphemistic on 17/10/2017 - 09:47

          @abuch47: Yes, but not utes.

        • redfox1200 on 17/10/2017 - 10:57
          +4

          you can't get an 80k second hand high yielding investment, because it it would be 100k second hand!

        • theHMASfriendship on 17/10/2017 - 21:11

          @redfox1200:

          Excellent point

  • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 07:37

    With the new Amarok model with the V6 I'm sure you could snag a bargain on the 4 cylinder version.

    I hear good things from them and are built tough…. Also there is a big forum all about Amarok if you need anything.

    Bloke has one at work and always 4x4 ing and always enjoys his weekends so they must be reliable.

    • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 07:41

      Certain amarok models don't have low range so you need to be careful. They did away with a transfer case due to the 8 speed gear box but it just isn't the same thing. You need low range if you're planning on doing sand driving serious 4x4ing.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 07:46

        Yes, you could go the older model for serious 4x4ing. Also Amarok are from looks larger but look at the spec sheet for exact sizes.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 09:00

          They're no bigger than the others.

        • DarwinBoy on 16/10/2017 - 21:17

          @wombat81:
          I think they claimed for a while to have the largest tray available.

        • Euphemistic on 17/10/2017 - 09:48

          @DarwinBoy: They are pretty similar, but i think the Amorok is a bit bigger overall, and it's (or at least was) definitely bigger in the tray, being able to take a standard sized pallet, while no others could.

    • Matslurpee on 15/10/2017 - 23:38

      Going for the v6 would massively help slow the depreciation.

  • whooah1979 on 15/10/2017 - 08:36
    +2

    I'm chasing a 4x4 ute.

    these types of vehicles aren't built for comfort. they're great for carrying a cargo over unsealed roads, but bad for everyting else.

    • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 09:04
      +1

      This used to be the case. Not so much any more. Especially with a good suspension kit, most of them are quite nice to drive these days. Hilux and ranger, for example, share their chassis with family SUV models (Fortuner and Everest). Utes have come a long way in comfort and handling.

      • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 10:29

        This used to be the case. Not so much any more

        I hope you're right

        Can you add things aftermarket to help? Apart from a heavy toolbox

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 10:31

          The best thing you can do is get aftermarket suspension. Go to someone who knows their stuff. Explain to then what you'll be using the car for and they'll be able to give you a good setup.

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 10:32

          @wombat81:
          Thanks. I didn't even know that was a thing so there ya go.
          I'm very nooby in this whole area

    • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 10:28

      these types of vehicles aren't built for comfort. they're great for carrying a cargo over unsealed roads, but bad for everyting else

      -This is a bloody big factor in my decision as we'll be doing 4 hour drives on barely sealed roads fortnightly.

      I plan to do test driving to see if what you or wombat81 says is true

      • redvaldez on 15/10/2017 - 22:01

        It's definitely true, I was a back seat passenger in a brand new Hilux SR5 and the ride was noticeable jiggly even on a brand new freeway with the standard highway terrain tyres. It's nowhere near as bad as older utes, and I'm sure it'd be fine if you had a decent load or were towing, but I have my doubts on how they'd go on rougher roads with no load, or if you added a set of LT tyres.

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 22:05

          Thanks for sharing.
          Leaning towards the prado now, just that price tag out of uni.
          We have savings and will have permanent work but still very unsure.
          I want something reliable that will last and depreciate less

        • redvaldez on 15/10/2017 - 22:13

          Could pick up a ~2012 Toyota FJ Cruiser for ~$30k. They're based on the Prado chassis, have the petrol Prado's engine and transmission (both of which are bulletproof), are low maintenance (interior is designed to be washed out), have a factory rear diff lock, ride/handle well, and are a bit shorter than a Prado.

          If you can get past the styling and don't mind a bit higher fuel use, they're hard to fault. I was seriously looking at buying one and couldn't find any serious negative to them aside from the styling and no diesel option.

  • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 10:04
    +1

    Not much love for the D-Max?

    • mskeggs on 15/10/2017 - 11:39

      I think the general opinion is, they look capable, and have gone well in tests, but they haven't got the reputation of durability that comes with years of sales history. I would guess there is also concerns about spares/repairs in remotes areas. You can fix a 70 series Landcruiser with a bit of wire and the bits lying around the local junkyard, while who knows when a Isuzu replacement part will show up?
      These are the kind of considerations for people travelling in really remote areas (or dreaming they might!), and will tend to push down the resale price of the Isuzu, and explains why Toyota can charge such a premium.

    • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 11:47

      No. They are very similar to the Colorados. The quality and reliability isn't there, just like the Tritons. Every brand has their fan-bois and their horror stories, but you're kidding yourself if you don't believe Toyota is on top in this segment, in terms of quality and reliability, Mazda and Ford are next, then Nissan, then the rest. Having said all that, the main argument you'll hear against the Toyotas is that they're overpriced, and in terms of pure performance and features, they probably are. But you're paying for reliability and reputation. The value of that is different for everyone.

      • Euphemistic on 16/10/2017 - 09:53
        +1

        The D-max by most accounts has a bullet proof engine. Same engine that has been powering trucks for a while. Isuzu know their commercial vehicle stuff. Current Colorado has a different engine, previously they were the same AFAIK.

        • wozz on 16/10/2017 - 12:29

          Read the same thing, engine supposedly brilliant. They are quite reasonable inside too, definitely wouldn't rule them out

  • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2017 - 11:40
    +2

    Why is the Toyota an extra $10,000? It's the extra tax Toyota know they can get because it's a Toyota. Toyota have lost the plot in the last five years or so.

    I have had two Hilux 4X4 both purchased second. One was eight months old when I purchased it. Yes they were both reliable but as my mechanic often says they are now building crap.

    BT50…never. Ford Ranger possibly. If you haven't already have a look at the Mitsubishi Triton it's great value for money.

    Yeah I know it's a Mitsubishi and the knockers will come out in droves. We have had two Pajeros. One 1985 2.3 litre turbo diesel, sold at 230,000 faultless Ks. Currently have a 2007 SWB Pajero with 314,000Ks on it. Cost so far one turbo and services.

    Another tip, make sure the vehicle you buy doesn't have 18 inch wheels. Tyres that size are more expensive.

    As for reviews in 4WD magazines forget it.The bias is incredible.

    Towing capacity set by the manufacturers is a joke. That is the amount they are allegedly able to tow. Point them at a hill with a 3 tonne van behind you and see what happens. Load you tow vehicle and van with all the gear you need for a trip and you will find you are close if not over the GVM. Add a couple of people and the chances of you being over GVM is a given.

    • mskeggs on 15/10/2017 - 12:08

      As for reviews in 4WD magazines forget it.The bias is incredible.

      Well, yes, but where else do you start to get a handle on the differences in vehicles.
      And I thought the Ranger and BT-50 were the same with just more bells and whistles on the Ford?

      I agree that Pajero's are good value, but like you are saying about Toyota, the older models are likely more durable. I am skeptical of all the electronics and plastics on all current vehicles if you want to end up with more than 300000kms. Lots and lots of things to break.

      • iseenya on 16/10/2017 - 14:31

        As I understand it, the Ford Ranger and Mazda BT-50 used to be basically the same vehicle, but Mazda have recently stopped building their own utes, so who makes what now is an interesting question. I had an idea that Mazda's were henceforth going to be rebadged Isuzu's, but I don't know anything about Ford's current/future ute sourcing.

        • Euphemistic on 16/10/2017 - 16:56
          +1

          The BT-50 in the current shape is the same as a Ford under the skin. So for now its a Ranger in an ugly suit. Next model will be an Isuzu (possibly also in an ugly suit)

    • whooah1979 on 15/10/2017 - 12:15

      my mechanic often says they are now building crap.

      Strange. Our mechanics says when in doubt, buy Toyota.

      • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 12:19

        I bet the mechanic drivers a Triton/Colorado/Dmax.

        Annandale is correct about 4x4 magazines, they all have their agendas. They are worth looking at for comparisons on numbers and standard inclusions etc, though. The problem with debates like this is that absolutely everyone is biased. The magazines, the dealers, people on forums like this, your mates, everyone has their opinion. That's just something else that makes it really hard to make the correct decision the first time.

        • whooah1979 on 15/10/2017 - 14:32

          I bet the mechanic drivers a Triton/Colorado/Dmax.

          One of them were driving a d4d hilux, but changed to a prado due the noise. The other one is driving a ford ute that they got cheap. The previous owner didn't have the money to fix it.

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 18:57

          @whooah1979: Sorry, I meant Annandale's mechanic.

  • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 12:16

    Here's an idea. Go with a Prado or Fortuner instead, for comfort. Salary sacrifice it for 5 years. Spend that 5 years experiencing some different types of camping, roads, dirt, mud, sand and children, then at the end of the 5 years, if you are happy, keep it. If not, restart your salary sacrifice with a more appropriate vehicle. You should have a decent idea, in 5 years time, of what you really need and want. You are really shooting blind at the moment. A Prado or Fortuner will get you anywhere a Hilux would.

    Talk to any person in their 30s or 40s who camps, I'll almost guarantee they'll tell you their first 4x4 wasn't the best choice and they ended up with a different one after a few years. For someone who hasn't camped and isn't experienced with 4x4s, it's going to be very hard to choose correctly. You simply don't know what you like or want in terms of camping or a vehicle. I'm 100% happy driving 8 hours in a day in my Hilux, but that doesn't mean you will be.

    I read yesterday that the Fortuners have had a price drop recently. Might be worth looking at.

    • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 12:56

      Hey wombat81
      After talking with some family about salary sacrifice I'm now more leaning to a used 2015 hilux.
      I definitely understand giving it a go for 5 years while I find what we want.

      Your reasoning of going for a prado or fortuner over a hilux for this. Is this mainly the comfort for long drives?

      Thye all appear to be around 4-50k for a 2015 used

      • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 13:05

        Yeah the comfort. They will come with softer suspension out of the factory compared to a Hilux. Whack a bull bar ans some spotties on and your good to go. With a Hilux you would need a suspension upgrade and a canopy of some sort, too.

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 16:38

          Just had a look at the prados
          Damn they're nice, that price tag though

          Are the hilux, fortuner, prado all comparable in their 4x4 capabilities?

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 19:04

          @science-teacher: Yeah pretty much. Hilux and fortuner run an almost identical chassis and the Prado isn't massively different. They all offer the same engine options, off the top of my head, but the Prado might get a different intercooler or something, I think, to produce a bit more power. I think you can still get a V6 petrol Prado (but you wouldn't), I don't think that's an option in the Hilux or Fortuner anymore. Like I said, Prado and Fortuner will be a bit nicer to drive bog stock because the springs will be a bit softer. So you could get away with the stock suspension at least to begin with which you're exploring the camping idea. But no matter which way you go, if you get at all serious about 4x4ing and/or camping, a suspension upgrade would be one of the first things you do.

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 19:15

          @wombat81:
          Appreciate it.
          Fortuner and prado seem pretty similar. What do you reckon the major differences are?

          Also, if a comfort of ride is the only issue with the Hilux, do you know an approximation of what a suspension kit would be worth?

          Thanks wombat :)

        • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 19:25

          @science-teacher: between $2k and $3k for a good suspension kit.

          I'm not certain on the differences but i think it's mainly a size thing. I'd say there's more leg/head/elbow room in a prado. If also guess the cargo area is bigger. I'm sure there are other differences, but i can't tell you what else.

        • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 19:41

          @wombat81: thanks heaps. I appreciate your help :)

        • trev likes bargains on 15/10/2017 - 22:55

          @science-teacher: Fortuner and prado seem pretty similar

          Fortuner is a Hilux with a canopy fixed permanently at the back and seats in the tray.

  • tonsta on 15/10/2017 - 13:26

    sell for $30K in 5 years? have you got your figures right? no ones going to pay that for a a hilux. I think the more realistic figure is 50% if your lucky.

    • wombat81 on 15/10/2017 - 13:31

      $30k for a 5 year old 4x4 hilux would be quite typical. Check it out: carsales Toyotas really do hold their value better than other makes.

    • teacherer on 15/10/2017 - 13:36
      +1

      Hey tonsta
      So if I bought a 2015 model, in 5 years it would be 7 years old.
      A 7 year old hilux today (2010) with under 100 000km is worth on carsales.com
      -31k and 34k

      Car sales valuations values a 2010 SR5 Hilux at 25-27k with 140 000km, which I'm assuming mine will be 100 000km at this stage. 30k is a bit of a stretch, but not much

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