Any Legal Obligation for Council to Show Evidence of Council Fines

renlireb on 12/10/2017 - 10:57
Last edited 12/10/2017 - 11:04 by 1 other user

Hi All,

I received a fine back in March 2017 for overparking at (unnamed) council. It was only sheer coincidence I decided to drive back around the area at where I got fined and realised that the fine period was not consistent with time from my messages regarding the event I was attending. I requested photographic evidence of the offence and was assured they would provide me with some.

Essentially, I've been calling back and they have constantly assured me they would get me the evidence in 'x' working days - but they never do. At some point around July, the fine got waived, however I feel like this became a matter of principle. The council fines vehicles and expect them to pay a penalty without sufficient proof of the offence?

I was wondering if there is any legal obligation for them to provide me with evidence or are they allowed to toy around like this indefinitely?

Automotive

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 12/10/2017 - 11:13
    +14

    Matter is dropped right? No point in trying to get righteous.

    • renlireb on 12/10/2017 - 20:35

      Matter is dropped, but I was pretty close to paying. It was only because I drove past where I parked I realised that the times didn't add up. I had to check both my dashcam and my messages to confirm.

  • Euphemistic on 12/10/2017 - 11:28

    I suspect there is no legal obligation to provide physical evidence. There is sufficient 'proof' by the fact the officer issued the fine under their delegated powers.

    I also suspect that councils now collect evidence as a matter of course, because it saves arguments if they can produce a photo and not rely on the word of the officer.

  • thord on 12/10/2017 - 11:42
    +2

    "The council fines vehicles and expect them to pay a penalty without sufficient proof of the offence?"

    Pretty much that's how a lot of things in australia (and the world) operate. On people's laziness, and peoples want to avoid hassle.

    Look at threads whenever topics like this pop up, or topics about fines, or speeding fines, or whatever.

    Inevitably the most upvoted answers are "Just pay the fine and take it as a lesson".

    Australia has this attitude of just giving up. Screw that, I agree with you. I have been falsely fined before for parking, I had timestamps from work attendance, doctors appointments, and phone call logs. I used this evidence and managed to get the fines waived (although they did give a terribly condescending message of "We will waive this one time as a matter of good faith" which was pretty enraging). I imagine anyone else who didn't have evidence would be stuck paying an unjustified fine.

    It's good that you got a false fine waived, but in this case, I'd probably stop now. You've achieved the goal, going further won't achieve anything.

    • tomsco on 12/10/2017 - 11:49
      +3

      Inevitably the most upvoted answers are "Just pay the fine and take it as a lesson"

      That's generally because those posts the OP has acknowledged they are at fault and are trying to weasel their way out of liability. In cases like this one, where the OP has evidence they were wrongly fined, the attitude is generally to contest it.

      • thord on 13/10/2017 - 13:50
        +1

        My issue with this is that there's an implicit assumption that the law is always right. It isn't. we should be contesting, disagreeing with, and fighting against things if we think they are wrong.

  • SPCTRE on 12/10/2017 - 12:24
    +2

    When it comes to traffic offenses, it's a "your guilty until proven innocent" approach.
    "Dob in a Hoon", "Dob in a litterer" etc. Campaigns like these promote that approaches and the police love them.
    The police can "guesstimate" your speed and fine you if they believe you were speeding which will uphold in a court of law unless proven otherwise.
    The very reason why i got a dashcam to tell them to stfu if they got nothing on me.
    Saved me once when some coppers tried to ping me for speeding in a 60 zone when i was doing 45. Apparently they saw me speeding by using the reflection in the shop windows lol got this on footage.
    They pissed off quick smart when they saw the dashcam.

    • EightImmortals on 12/10/2017 - 13:13

      How did the dashcam record your speed?

      • SPCTRE on 12/10/2017 - 13:17

        Inbuilt GPS. Tracks my movements, speed and keeps a log of them. Can set speed to be displayed in the video too

        • EightImmortals on 12/10/2017 - 13:32

          Oh cool. I haven't gotten serious about dashcams yet so I'm not sure exactly what they can and can't do. What model do you have?

        • SPCTRE on 12/10/2017 - 14:16
          +1

          Blackvue 2ch dr550gw. It's about 2-3 generation old now.
          Think the lastest model is Blackvue 2ch dr750

  • renlireb on 12/10/2017 - 20:42

    I guess I'll just take it the way it is. Cheers all

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