Breville BES870 Barista Express - What's Your Configuration?

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Breville

• 

  boomramada on 09/10/2017 - 09:42

  +2

  Well its not that easy to make a good coffee in semi manual machine, may be you should do a small barista course.
  Plus it also depend on the coffee bean as well. Practice make you perfect.

• 

  charzy on 09/10/2017 - 10:35

  +2

  Rough guide for a single basket is 30 mL in 30 seconds (60mL in 30 seconds) for espresso shots. See if you can measure a shot. Also it's about the taste; can have minimal crema but taste great.
  Normally I need to grind finer for a single basket than a double basket dose otherwise it pours too quickly. When I used to have my BES870 I would have sitting at ~ 2-3 on the grind setting (pretty fine) and had to order the shims incase I needed to grind even finer.
  Make sure all your variables are consistent (keep portafilter hot e.g. in group head when not in use, weigh your grind if you have to, tamp consistently, flush group after brewing etc).
  See if you have a roasted date on your beans; anything more than 3-4 weeks can pour very thinly/no crema. Otherwise avoid supermarket beans and go for fresh roasted (two cracks coffee/manna beans from OZB).

  • 

    ESEMCE on 09/10/2017 - 11:52

    +2

    Disclaimer: I don't have the Breville kit, I have Sunbeam 6910 and EM480 grinder

    Yeah I suspect you're grinding too coarse…
    Over extraction as I understand is more about the extraction time than the pressure. (Extration time is semi related to pressure of course… finer grind = more pressure = longer extraction)
    Don't trust the "Pressure needle" on a consumer grade machine, I think they're there for looks more than functionality.

    Crema can be affected by bean type and bean freshness as much as water temp and extraction pressure.

    I dose my beans into the grinder and ensure that all the grinds come out… The EM480 has a poor design that seems to catch a lot of grinds inside… sometimes I can grind and need to beat out half of my coffee!
    As a result, my poor grinder gets a literal bashing to knock out everything. It's still going strong 6 years later!

    • 

      aaronaldo on 09/10/2017 - 12:04

      Thanks for this. Does higher or lower water temp increase crema?

      • 

        ESEMCE on 09/10/2017 - 12:04

        +1

        Aim at 90 degrees for best extraction I believe…

• 

  empty456 on 09/10/2017 - 11:38

  +2

  2 cup single wall filters are easier for a newbie… Also try to weigh the beans to eliminate one inconsistency. Using 2 cup with your basket should be around 17 grams I reckon. It isn’t a commercial size 58mm basket. Start from there and vary the grind, keeping in mind the 30s/30ml. The grinds should feel a bit like sand but a bit finer, like it’s clumping a bit when you rub it between your fingers?

  I am not familiar with Harris Farm beans but if they aren’t within a month of roast date the crema will not be that high. How are you going with the built in tamper?

  Edited, I forgot to say, if using the 2 cup basket it will be 30s/60ml. When you have got the grind right, watch the shot and stop pulling when it starts to blonde. At that point you will most likely have about 45ml instead of the usual 60ml I reckon. That last part of the shot is bitter and unfortunately, as non commercial espresso machine users, we have to live with throwing that away.

  How is your shot looking? Is it gushing out? When the grind is right it will almost hang off the spout like honey. Stop watching the gauge and focus on the coffee.

  • 

    aaronaldo on 09/10/2017 - 12:00

    What do you mean by built in tamper? The BES870 doesn't have automatic tampering if that's what you're asking. It does come with a manual tamper.

    Not sure when the roast date is for the Harris Farm beans. I don't recall seeing it on the self serve sacks they have. Will check again next time!

    • 

      empty456 on 09/10/2017 - 12:03

      Yes I meant the manual tamper. Do you have any friends you could borrow a proper tamper from? I found it hard as a newbie to use built in tampers as I could never get the grinds tamped evenly and flat all the time.

      I think the basket size for your machine is 53mm and it will really help to have a proper tamper, even one that is slightly undersized will do. They shouldn’t be that expensive to buy.

• 

  aaronaldo on 09/10/2017 - 12:02

  Does anyone know if the default extraction for the single/double dose on the BES870 is done by time or amount of liquid it can push through?

  • 

    empty456 on 09/10/2017 - 12:05

    It is programmed in mls. If you press the button while it is extracting, the extraction will stop.

  • 

    ESEMCE on 09/10/2017 - 12:07

    On my machine I reckon it measures the "dose" of water. Guessing yours is the same.
    You need to adjust your grind and tamp pressure to achieve the 30mL in 30 seconds aim.
    I have a hand tamper, and use some, but minimal pressure… Wrist pressure, not arm pressure and certainly not body weight.

• 

  Hiroko on 09/10/2017 - 16:11

  warm up group head, basket and cup before anything.
  grind finer, tamper at about 7kg pressure,
  fill the basket until theres about 1mm gap left at the top and lock the group handle in nice and tight.

• 

  Stahh on 10/10/2017 - 16:31

  Set your grind to about 4-5 but depends on beans, set the grind amount to about 3 oclock seems like you are not getting enough pressure.. too course and not enough beans. Tamp with about 10kg of pressure the amount should be so you just cant see the silver bit on the tamp head and level should be nice n tight while twisting the basket on. Also can try warming basket and block but found this can burn the coffee and isnt needed for me.. also try putting your water temp up 1 or 2 notches.(hold program button while turning machine on select 1 cup button(or 2 cup for max temp))

  • 

    aaronaldo on 10/10/2017 - 18:53

    Those were the settings I started with but regardless of tampering hard or soft it over extracted. Dialing the coarseness didn't help until I bring the dose amount right down to 11 o'clock.

    • 

      ESEMCE on 11/10/2017 - 10:11

      As above over extraction is probably the wrong wording.
      What is the actual problem you're identifying as over-extraction?
      Bitterness?

      • 

        aaronaldo on 11/10/2017 - 10:15

        The needle pointing to an area which the instruction manual is saying as over extraction. The coffee drips out instead of pouring out like runny honey

      • 

        ESEMCE on 11/10/2017 - 10:27

        +1

        @aaronbaron:
        Forget the needle.. it's a toy, nothing more. (even if it's accurate today, there's no guarantees it will be so in a month's time)
        But agreed that it should flow, not drip.

        The finer you grind the smaller the air pockets between grinds and therefore the higher the pressure required to extract.
        Similarly, the harder you tamp, the smaller the air pockets.
        Similarly, the higher you fill the basket, the harder the compression in the group head and the smaller the air pockets.
        They're pretty much the 3 variables.

        I eliminate the third variable by dosing my beans into the grinder… I measure the correct amount of beans using a measuring cup (1/4 cup in my case) for my double basket (we threw out all the others as I found the single basket hard to pour accurately and the others were those stupid double layer things that get absolutely disgusting inside!) then pour those beans (no others in the hopper) into the grinder and grind them all.

        As above you want to tamp with some but not a lot of force, it's the hardest variable to control, so pay attention when you tamp.

        Finally adjust the grind to get the right extraction. this will change marginally from bean to bean.

        Crema is bean and freshness dependent.. If you're otherwise getting all the variables under control, then try some other beans.. I use Bay Beans Ozbargain offer $50 for 2Kg delivered.
        http://www.baybeans.com.au/ozbargain

• 

  furythree on 22/10/2017 - 20:52

  +1

  for the love of god please dont use super market beans. every piece of advice here is useless if youre trying to extract blood out of a rock

  buy some beans from fresh roasters:

  Mannabeans, Two cracks coffee, industrybeans, padre coffee, central coast coffee and pretty much anything else that pops up here is usually pretty good

  for the moment i personally order from Two Cracks as theyre the best value and consistent in quality when theres a sale

  that being said, single or double wall filter doesnt really matter. 4 to 3 level grind. 30 sec shot. turn the dial to 11 o clock and use a double shot basket.
  the bes870 uses a 52mm basket, so its way smaller than a 58mm standard one already, no need for a single shot basket unless you like drinking espressos for dwarves

  in terms of quantity, set the machine to double shot, and the grind dial to 11 o clock.
  Take a single shot basket and use that as a measuring scoop. keep the hop empty. (this is only temporary to help you tweak the settings, after youve got everything perfect, you can fill it up)
  the right qty is when the beans are level with the rim of the single shot basket then pour the beans into the hop for grinding

  when the grinding stops, it should stop just as the beans in the hop runs out, give or take one second. adjust the dial or amount of beans accordingly incrementally

  when you tamper, first cup your fingers and compact the grinds gently into the basket but DONT press hard, this is just so they dont fall out all over the place.
  Then use the tamper to press down gently until you cant see the silver part of the tamper edge anymore. Theres no right or wrong amount of force because we are relying on the visual level of the tamper for consistency across every shot instead of an unreliable inconsistent "hand feel" of pressure. If the tamper compresses too easily you probably dont have enough grinds

  If it starts to get really hard to compact before the silver edge disappears then you have too much grinds.

  The fineness should be around 4 or finer. if you cant get any good results even with a 5, then you either have the wrong amount of grinds or the beans are shit.

  Like i said, none of this matters if your beans are not fresh.

  if you drink lattes, when you froth the milk, for a decent single cup of coffee, 1/3 full jug of milk so that the cold milk is just below the halfway mark designated by the pouring indent on the inside of the jug. adjust accordingly if you want stronger or more diluted.

  Ive made about 5 coffees a day for the last 2 or so years with this machine so ive got it down to a science