Points Hacks - Amex and more

• 

  jkcat on 20/09/2017 - 14:18

  +1

  You could convert them into Qantas/Velocity points and sell in classified for 1c/pt.

  • 

    SaberX on 20/09/2017 - 16:25

    Hmm but is that legally allowed?whereas the bonus redemption on card transactions are about 0.91c currently guaranteed?

    How hard is it to sell? And is 1c considered decent?

    • 

      jkcat on 21/09/2017 - 15:30

      Qantas is said to have a crackdown on this but once you get your cash that's a done deal. Similar ads on classified were swooped with buyers in minutes. People tend to buy in bulk (say 100K+) so 1c/pt is appropriate for a relatively smaller amount.

      • 

        SaberX on 22/09/2017 - 02:49

        how much would a bulk amount like say 100k points get you? Is that amex ascent or in the local airlines?

        So is the only way to do this to convert amex pionts to the airline your selling in first? And do most people prefer to buy a certain airlines points, or is it more beneficial to convert from amex to say qantas's points than say virgin's velocity? Just curious what i should generally be doing.

• 

  starburstyellow on 20/09/2017 - 14:23

  Bit confused with the question to be honest. Are you asking what is the best value card to earn from spending? Or are you asking whats the best method of getting most $$ from your points?

  • 

    SaberX on 20/09/2017 - 16:26

    Best value earning points card for non amex.

    For my amex i was wondering what better options there were than waiting for and using points on transaction credits when these 30% bonuses on redemption etc are on.

• 

  kostonsave on 20/09/2017 - 15:54

  I'm getting about 3-5c/point value using them on business class tickets. The ticket outright is about $4,000-$5,000 (accounting for taxes) for 80,000 points (106k Amex points). If it's peak time the tickets can go up to $5-6k.

  It works out to be about $30-40+ per 1000 points. This value/point is for the AmEx Explorer. It will be higher for the AmEx Platinum.

  • 

    SaberX on 20/09/2017 - 16:41

    Hmmm so amex platinum edge are 80000 points worth more converting to a flight redemption than say the explorer?? Are they not treated equally??

    Hmmm so your buying a business class ticket outright not just an upgrade? Which airlines and programs are you converting points into to use this?

    Thing is if i didnt want to waste 4k of dollars on biz classes are economy class seats bought with points rewarding from a cash point of view value of amex points?? So 500 buck economy seat flight for example is something i would have bought previously rather than say 2k on biz class. Perhaps useful for a trip to europe for the honeymoon??

    Edit: are there any known hacks for those in the space for which airline programs are generally best for converting points to and perhaps do they do bonus conversions to wait for if time is on your side? Assumedly once you pick an airline is it hard to tf to other airline programs or back to amex?

    • 

      starburstyellow on 20/09/2017 - 18:30

      Have you looked online for some guides Eg pointshack.com.au. They tend to be a good beginner website. There are other more bettered sites out there e.g QFF, flyertalk, but I suggest pointshack first.

      Long story short, it's always better to claim it in flights, on a higher class ie business or first. I can give you examples if you'd like.

      • 

        SaberX on 22/09/2017 - 03:01

        i had seen pointshack.com.au for general guides on upgrading and like odd articles where it was in the media. i didn't actually think it has a quick how to guide for beginners though, i thought perhaps it would be like QFF/flyer talk, where there's alot of topic forums which i don't have time in life currently to trawl through as opposed to an one or two stop shop for a how to guide on generally how to go about earning the best?

        I guess i am trying to strike the best 'value'. like say $4k business seat you get for 100,000 points. BUt if i wouldn't have bought busines class normally, i would be 'increasing my spenidng' per se, versus if i used the 100,000 points for $2k worth of economy class tickets, that i would have bought anyway regardless. What i'm getting at is what's the most value for money without increasing spending to feel like i saved on notional value. so redeeming on credit card chages of $600 is real cash i would have spent. same for $2k of economy class flights. whereas iw ouldn't have necessarily paid $4k or used business class otherwise?

        Happy to have some examples if you don't mind. just so I can get a feel for how many points are required to do what.

        with all the talk about reward points being sold, is there a general pricing guide if one is to sell, or what best to sell in e.g. amex ascent points or is it best to convert to a certain airline's program then sell? So long as my points aren't forfeited or anything though.

      • 

        starburstyellow on 23/09/2017 - 12:26

        @SaberX: Sorry from your questions I still think that website helps. There is a guide area for earning a particular loyalty scheme.

        Like I said, best value is still redeeming a bus or first class seat.

        Example:

        Perth to Singapore economy on SQ say for simplicity it's $500. Perth to Singapore business on SQ is about $2000.

        Rule of thumb is buying business using $$ is about 4* economy ticket.

        But if you use points:

        Perth to Singapore economy on SQ is 40000 Kris flyer points (kff). Perth to Singapore business on SQ is 65000.

        So for 62% more points, you get business!

        See what I did there?

      • 

        kostonsave on 24/09/2017 - 16:39

        @SaberX:

        Just pulling these prices off Google:

        50k points SYD to NRT Economy $1,150
        80k points SYD to NRT Business $4,050

        It's pretty much what others have said. 4 times the price but only 60% more points. This applies to almost every route.

        To get a quick boost I would sign up to all the credit cards you can, earn the bonus points then cancel and repeat every 12-18 months. Doing this on a rotation will give you about 100k FF points per year. You can earn even more if you have a wife/gf also doing the same thing.

        Think about where you want to fly, which airlines fly there and which points you need to earn. You don't need to restrict yourself to just Amex.

        Here is an example of why redeeming for econ is not worth it. From the example above:

        50k Asia Miles = $1,050 ticket
        50k Asia Miles + $100 tax = $950 value
        950/50k Asia Miles = 1.9c value per point
        950/66k Amex Gateway Points = 1.4c value per point

        The 1.4c value is lower than the majority of Amex surcharges. So you are paying 2-3% surcharge to get a 1.4% return.

        If you happen to find a discounted econ ticket ($600-700) the value per point drops below 1%. At this point you are better off just selling them at 1c per point.

      • 

        SaberX on 27/09/2017 - 02:42

        @starburstyellow:

        thanks I will def have a look at the guide area then.

        I see what you did there. Good points. I guess I am tossing up now: if i would have normally flown economy sure it would have cost $500, so i would save $500 anyway. it is marginally better to pay with 65% more points to get biz class, but i would be 'increasing' my notional spending, that is i wouldn't have spent more than the economy but am now using more points as it is more worth it for biz class (on a proportional basis, per your example). Bit of a dilemma… it's more the notional idea that you get more bang for buck redeeming for biz, but would be spending more by theory than i would have flown normally (economy only).

        I do have a honeymoon int he future and so biz class may be an once off good idea. I know SQ uses say Kris flyer points (kff) - but is the norm to keep your points in one place e.g. the amex ascent, then choose an airlines then convert points? If one shops around and gets credit cards with intro offers for qantas FF etc, do people just keep various flyer reward brands and then convert when required? Or is there a FF loyalt program that is known for being best to store /accumulate points in (e.g. change all your amex, visa, mastercard points into it) as it is easy to move around and change to other airlines points systems? Or is it generally a losing game by transferring around from one FF program to another (your points)?

        seems asia miles are accepted on everything from cathay to Msia airliens etc (one world) and one of the top choices?

      • 

        SaberX on 27/09/2017 - 02:49

        @kostonsave:

        thanks for the explanations. you gave 50k asia miles being 1.9c, but if you had the amex ascent these convert at 1:1 and so it would be similar 1.9c value for each amex point? I agree with amex surchages, as long as it is more than 0.70% i've worked out you pay more in surcharge than you can even redeem for credit on your transacitons ($7 per $1,000) and assumedly selling is about the same.

        I understand what you said and the poster above about your % spend increase in points to redeem biz is alot proportionately better than the price to pay economy vs biz. My dilemma was if i would have only paid economy anyway the boost up to biz is spending more than i would have via my normal means, albeit as you mentioned the 'return' you get for the 60% more points is proportionately alot higher. so i get where your coming from.

        What i May find useful in keeping my points is to save for my honeymoon in the future. You mentioned working out airliens, where we want to go etc. but with prices changing and plans all the time, is there a general 'principle' in terms of where to store points, or which FF programs to stash converted credit card points into that FF program? or is it a losing sum game by moving points around from one FF program to another just so you can use the points for a different airlines route?

        Unfortunately I already have the Amex, so I can't get any more intro offers. So i assume my next bet is to rotate amongst CC providers e.g. big 4 banks and others, to ge tbonus points? THen close them once i earn the points as assumedly these start to count towards not having a card for say 18 months and getting a new promo offer in the future?

        Does shopping around all these cards for points i assume affect your credit rating though? I would assume the banks woudl get to a point of thinking your an unprofitable customer and lowering your credit appeal as such?

        There's the added complication that i've always used credit cards that have rewards points, alot of cards do points directly in say the qantas FF program. So i would assume i would need to work out the value of these points in transferring to other airline ff programs etc ain order to judge if a new CC deal is worth it?

        Or is there a general guide out there that makes sense of all the FF programs, their conversion rates to transfer ppoints between one another etc. and more importantly 'rough' costs of redemptions, as it would be a very lengthy process wouldn't it to always check different airlines for up to date points for redemption details?

        I assume most airlines you can search up the points cost to upgrade or purchase a biz class seat as well?

      • 

        starburstyellow on 27/09/2017 - 10:39

        @SaberX: Are you basically looking for a way to fly the most cost effective way e.g. Flying business for same cost as Economy? If you are, think you are bit out of luck. The example I gave earlier is the way to go. The next best thing, but is more dangerous (if you get caught your points get take away from you) is to purchase the points from someone on the forum as @kostonsave pointed out it cost 1cent but has potentially 4-6 cents worth in value upon redemption.

        One other suggestion I could give you, using the example above is that, Flight redemptions from Perth to Singapore is the same as Perth (via Singapore) to Hong Kong/Taiwan ie 65000 KFF on biz and 40000 on econ. You could even stop over Singapore for free on either legs!

        I do keep my points on MR, Citi etc until I want to transfer to KFF. Reason being is that if I transfer it to KFF, I have 3 years to use it else it will get lost. Leaving in MR, Citi, as long as account is active its there indefinitely.

        My suggestion to you is to pick an airline group you want to concentrate on i.e. One World or Star alliance. Once you have done that, it makes it easier.

    • 

      endgame on 22/09/2017 - 13:43

      Plat edge and explorer are on different programs. The plat edge is on MR Ascent and transfers 1:1 into airline programs. The explorer is on MR Gateway and transfers 4:3 into airline programs.

• 

  kostonsave on 20/09/2017 - 18:54

  +1

  Platinum converts from Amex to Asia Miles/Qantas/Kris Flyer at 1:1. Explorer converts at 1:0.75 and doesn't have Qantas as an option.
  https://www.pointhacks.com.au/credit-cards/american-express-…

  I worked out an upgrade isn't worth it (cost of your own time, hassle etc.) The premium economy ticket ends up close to 2k and the upgrade isn't guaranteed. You can call up before hand to confirm an upgrade seat is available before booking. Asia Miles and Krisflyer will do this. Last time I did this it was multiple phone calls to confirm the upgrade etc.

  If you book it outright with points everything is confirmed at that point in time if a seat is available.

  For example, I booked two business class tickets this year and only paid tax on them (~$150/ea) ->Syd to Tokyo = 80,000 Asia Miles using a Qantas flight. Most of the 80,000 business class routes are decent value.

  Asia Miles is good value but availability is a pain but you can use One World airlines (Qantas etc.).

  Kris Flyer has good availability but redemptions are quite expensive.

  Qanta FF - I find these hard to earn and just use Asia Miles to book Qantas Flights.

  Virgin is easy to earn and I just convert these to Krisflyer miles at 1.35:1

  Example Point Hack - There used to be a loophole but I think this no longer works:

  1. Sign up for Amex Explorer get 110,000 bonus points.
  2. Sign up for Amex Platinum and get 100,000 bonus points.
  3. Call Amex in early morning to get US call centre.
  4. Request to convert all points to Amex Acscension program (1:1 conversion to FF programs instead of 1:0.75).
  5. Book 2.5 business class tickets :)

  Feel free to PM me if you have a specific route in mind.

  • 

    starburstyellow on 20/09/2017 - 23:07

    The loop hole of converting Amex Gateway to Accent still works. But applying for 2 Amex's is closed i.e. using above example, you wont get the 100K from the Platinum charge, as you have an existing card in the last 18 months.

    • 

      SaberX on 22/09/2017 - 02:52

      if you haven't had an amex explorer before wouldn't you be able to apply for this and get the bonus 100k pionts whilst still holding say the amex platinum edge?

      • 

        starburstyellow on 27/09/2017 - 13:04

        No, you don't get the 100K bonus, as you currently hold an existing amex i.e. the Platinum Edge.

    • 

      Rocket6 on 27/09/2017 - 11:47

      Star - just to confirm, if I have had an AMEX Velocity Escape, does the same rule of thumb apply / they actually enforce it? I have heard otherwise.

      I am going to upgrade my card soon (to either Explorer or Plat) and I will most definitely go with Explorer if I actually get paid the current 100K offered pts.

      • 

        starburstyellow on 27/09/2017 - 13:11

        Bonus on application of new card while holding an existing Loop hole got stopped sometime around April from memory. You could try the "upgrade" method i.e. product switch, as that might yield better results. Let me know how you go. I'm thinking of switching or cancelling my Explorer.

  • 

    SaberX on 22/09/2017 - 02:57

    Thanks for the tips. I haven't really understood how all the frequent flyer loyalty programs work - so obviously Qantas has its own points system, but at the same time Asia Miles (that's air asia's program right?) can be used for Qantas also? Krisflyer for singapore?

    What is the best way to go about converting to airlines if you don't know availability and which you'll use - is it easy enough to convert to one generally accepted program as being better conversion, and then easily switch it to another FF loyalty program if say you wanted to use Krisflyer but already had Asia miles? I do believe Asia Miles if it is One world airlines (qantas etc that would include malaysia airlines for example).

    THe virgin ones take 1.35 points to convert into 1 , so unless amex platinum has the bonus redemption say 1 amex ascent to 1.5 velocity points, then i assume it would be btter to convert to veloctiy then convert that to say krisflyer at 1.35:1, correct? as platinum edge's ascent would otherwise convert 1:1?

    Is it generaly worth the points using FF programs to book normal economy classes? I'd rather have a few economy classes and go my usual cattle class than use alot of points on business. sure the notional valueof business could be say "4k", but the real value to me would be saving say "1.5k" on economy flights that i would have booked anyway, whereas business i wouldn't have paid anyway, so in a way i am forgoing abit of 'money' if that makes sense??

    Lastly is there a reason why people buy points on classified? I mean why do people sell them - im assuming having points must be handy if people are buying them? And is there a general guide on what's 'decent' in terms of sale price per points for say the various FF programs? or does one sell the actual amex ascent points? anything to look out for for a newbie to selling?

    P.s. do amex explorer cards also earn 'ascent' points per se? Same membership points as the platinum edge range?

    • 

      kostonsave on 24/09/2017 - 16:44

      I'll reply twice as you have a couple of other questions here.

      People buy points because it is good value. You can buy them at 1c/point and redeem at 4-6c/point+.

      However, good luck buying them though because one buyer usualy buy them all. I think they must have millions of points by now.

      If you have an Explorer, sign-up to Plat, convert to Ascent. All points earned will go to the Ascent scheme. The $1,200 fee is a bit hard to swallow though.

      See my reply above re the value of econ redemptions.

      • 

        starburstyellow on 25/09/2017 - 23:17

        SaberX, I wouldnt suggest you do this trick just yet as can be confusing. Also if you did, a cheaper alternative is the Explorer first then, Platinum Edge second. You do not need a Platinum Charge to do this trick. Unless you need to transfer the MR to Qantas.

      • 

        SaberX on 27/09/2017 - 02:51

        Thanks - i guess the crux of it is whether you want to get biz class seats at a better redemption bang for buck, or stick to economy if physical dollars saved is a prioriy. That said - is buying of points legal and is there a risk of programs or credit cards cancelling my points if i were to sell or transfer them? Or even on the flipsideif i start buying?

        Thanks for the amex tip. isn't the explorer the entry level card, the $1,200 card fee seems excessive, or was that a typo? Given i already have a platinum edge i would assume my amex plan to get free points is wasted. unless new cards in other lines i.e. not platinum edge, still ofer the free point promos?

      • 

        starburstyellow on 27/09/2017 - 13:14

        @SaberX: Its not illegal but it voids the T&C's. If you get caught, your points will get confiscated and you would have lost both points and money. The risk is lower for the seller as you already got the $$.

        Explorer is mid range. Yes the Platinum Charge card is $1200.00.

        Only card that still offers points bonus, even if you have an existing Amex is the David Jones Amex card.

      • 

        kostonsave on 28/09/2017 - 08:12

        @SaberX:

        Yes, I had the Charge and Plat confused! The Edge card is the one to get. There's a whole thread on the topic of linking Amex Explorer with Amex Edge to get Ascent Points.

        https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/threads…

        Have a read of the last few pages. This still seems to work if you ever wanted to do this :)

        Buying points - People who do this usually get the seller to purchase a ticket in their name. The downside of this you are giving your personal details to a stranger online. Others, meet up in person or do it via Skype.

        Velocity is the only easy way to transfer points to "family members" but some have lost points in the process or had their entire account cancelled.

    • 

      Dont Care on 27/09/2017 - 05:58

      -3

      20 posts and you still can't understand. After you've already said you dont use routes or airlines where they can be used. Do everyone a favour and quit asking stupid questions.