Can You Help Me Build a Good High Spec 'non-Gaming' Desktop/ Server

LJabberwocky on 03/09/2017 - 16:28
Last edited 03/09/2017 - 17:04 by 1 other user

So, its been years since I built a desktop for myself (precisely 15 years, last i built was when I was 18 yo).

Since years now, I have been into laptops only…first in uni and then received high spec laptops from workplace. Never tracked or bothered how the market has changed , pricing, pre-built self /build etc and most importantly best deals for desktops.

Hence seek your suggestions, guidance to build one.

I work into the IT software industry and was wanting to build a high end desktop for myself (not for gaming), that can be run as a small/medium server that I can use to run multiple software, Virtual machines etc.

I have just purchased the BenQ monitor from the deal that was posted 2 days ago - https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/327055

Looking specs similar to:

  • i7- 7600/7700
  • 16GB RAM to start with, desired 32GB
  • 256/512GB SSD
  • Win 10 PRO
    etc

Budget $1000 (+- 20%)

Also registered for the Lenovo AMEX $250 cashback offer if the suggestions point towards purchasing pre-built , branded desktop.

Thanks OzBargainers !

AND - Not in a rush to build. Point me to good (previous deals) if that means I have to wait to build something within my budget. I am looking at building the PC by End of October

Computing

Comments

  • jonathonsunshine on 03/09/2017 - 16:56
    +4

    All hail Ryzen!

    Kingston SSDnow SV300S37A/480G 480G SSD3 Kingston SSDnow SV300S37A/480G 480G SSD3
    https://www.umart.com.au/Kingston-SSDnow-SV300S37A-480G-480G…
    $201.99

    Corsair 16GB (2 x8) CMK16GX4M2B3000C15B DDR4 3000MHz Vengeance LPX DIMM Blue Corsair 16GB (2 x8) CMK16GX4M2B3000C15B DDR4 3000MHz Vengeance LPX DIMM Blue
    https://www.umart.com.au/Corsair-16GB--2-x8--CMK16GX4M2B3000…
    $199.00

    AMD Ryzen 5 1600 6-Core Socket AM4 3.4GHz CPU Processor with Wraith Spire Cooler AMD Ryzen 5 1600 6-Core Socket AM4 3.4GHz CPU Processor with Wraith Spire Cooler
    https://www.umart.com.au/AMD-Ryzen-5-1600-6-Core-Socket-AM4-…
    $289.00

    Gigabyte GA-A320M-HD2 Ryzen AM4 mATX 2xDDR4 Gigabyte GA-A320M-HD2 Ryzen AM4 mATX 2xDDR4
    https://www.umart.com.au/Gigabyte-GA-A320M-HD2-Ryzen-AM4-mAT…
    $99.00

    Edit* Forgot Ryzen has no integrated graphics support yet.
    Gigabyte Nvidia GT710 Fanless
    https://www.umart.com.au/Gigabyte-GeForce-GT-710-Silent-Low-…
    $38.00

    $826 Total.

    $200~ left over for case / power supply / Windows 10 Pro key which I see on OzBargain often for > $20

    I put very little thought or effort into this build.

    • jonathonsunshine on 03/09/2017 - 17:04
      +1

      If you've built one computer then as you probs know, you've built them all. Fairly likely one of your mates has old POS gfx card or case lying around.

    • Ryanek on 03/09/2017 - 17:07

      Looks like a lot of effort to me

    • Jabberwocky on 03/09/2017 - 17:16

      Much thanks pointing me to this new direction, will look more into these processors, didn't plan for them, obviously gives me new good options.

      • josetann on 03/09/2017 - 18:02

        Note that there's some issues with Ryzen and virtualization software. Also just noticed a bug that's serious enough for them to replace some Ryzen processors (supposedly only affects linux users, read about it here: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/254750-amd-replaces-ry… ). I'm not saying to stay away. Just do research before going down that path. If it all works for you, it's great bang for the buck. I almost bought the parts to build one myself. The current issues for VMs using kvm (which unRAID uses) plus iffy ECC support is what pushed me in another direction.

  • josetann on 03/09/2017 - 17:10
    +2

    HP Z420

    If possible, get one with a newer boot block date. 3/6/13 is what you want, 12/28/11 is what you don't want. Actually, both are fine, but the newer boot block lets you use newer Ivy Bridge processors in addition to Sandy Bridge, while the older boot block limits you to the older Sandy Bridge cpus. If it comes with an Ivy Bridge cpu (generally noted as v2 after the cpu name), then you're good. Otherwise you have to see the bios screen (some ebay sellers post a photo of that) or ask the seller. Or just don't care and be happy with the older Sandy Bridge cpu.

    Anyway, there's an HP Z420 currently on ebay for $600 plus shipping (shows $40 for me), has Make Offer option. Has an Intel Xeon E5-1603 (4 cores/threads, you'll definitely want to upgrade), 32GB ram, 2TB drive, Quadro 4000 graphics card (I think it's the K4000). No idea about boot block, so cpu upgrades may be limited to Sandy Bridge. I'm sure you could upgrade the cpu and get a decent ssd drive and stay under budget.

    I also see one for $850 plus shipping ($20 for me), also has Make Offer option. Intel Xeon E5-1650 v2 (Ivy Bridge so you know it's got the newer boot block, 6 cores 12 threads), 16GB ram, 1TB drive, Quadro K2000. If I didn't want to spend a lot right away in upgrades, I'd get this one and throw in an SSD drive. You might get lucky and have half your ram slots free (mine did).

    All the ones I've seen come with a Windows 7 license, so you should (might) be eligible for a free Windows 10 upgrade.

    Also note that it uses ECC ram (I've read where it won't boot with non-ecc ram, so be aware of that).

    I'm waiting on some upgrades for mine, but so far I like it. Running unRAID with a few VMs. Currently has two graphics cards and about to put in a third. Running with 32GB ECC but about to put in 128GB (it reportedly works with registered memory though the specs say otherwise).

    For reference, the i7-7700 has a Passmark of 10800, while the E5-1650 v2 has a Passmark of 12657. I'm getting an Intel Xeon E5-2680 v2 to put in mine, Passmark of 16341.

    • Jabberwocky on 03/09/2017 - 17:23

      Wow…that requires expertise and technical prowess. Will I be able to build these desktops under $1000-$1200.
      Also you mentioned 2 graphic cards, you are putting in the 3rd. What's the use if i may ask ? Coz i thought graphic cards are for video editing or gaming ?
      Am i missing something so that I am careful while building one for myself.

      • josetann on 03/09/2017 - 17:39
        +1

        Per:

        "I work into the IT software industry and was wanting to build a high end desktop for myself (not for gaming), that can be run as a small/medium server that I can use to run multiple software, Virtual machines etc."

        I can passthrough the graphics cards directly to the VM. So one graphics card is for unRAID itself (you might be able to passthrough the primary graphics card, but it will likely require lots of tinkering, especially with nvidia cards). I have a GTX-1030 that I plan on using with a Windows VM running Kodi, it'll be connected to a tv or projector. The K4000 it came with will probably be used for a primary desktop. So the underlying OS is unRAID, then Ubuntu 16.04 to run tvheadend (currently running), Windows 10 to run Kodi (I tested with LibreELEC and it worked fine), and Windows 10 to run my desktop.

        I also bought a cheap usb switch (not a hub). Idea is to plug one usb keyboard and mouse into the switch, then I can push a button and it'll switch it to different usb ports on the Z420 (I can passthrough different usb controllers or even individual ports with a hack). So…change inputs on the monitor, push a button on the switch, and I'm connected to a completely different VM using the same monitor and keyboard/mouse.

    • Diji1 on 03/09/2017 - 18:44

      HP Z420 currently on ebay for $600 plus shipping … you'll definitely want to upgrade … while the E5-1650 v2 has a Passmark of 12657

      … and you'll find that the that CPU is about $200 on eBay and it will be slower than the ryzen system above aside from issues from old hardware such as USB speeds and things breaking off due to the age of the socket.

      • josetann on 03/09/2017 - 19:13

        The E5-1650 v2 that I mentioned came with the $850 system. AMD Ryzen 5 1600 has a Passmark of 12352 which is lower than the E5-1650 v2 score of 12657. The HP Z420 has four USB 3.0 ports (two in back, two in front). True it's not USB 3.1, but I wouldn't call it "old hardware". I'm also curious what you think is going to break off due to the age of the socket.

        Basically, the Ryzen build is mid-tier current gen consumer level tech, and the HP Z420 is high-end older gen pro level tech. In my opinion the Ryzen build would be better suited for a gamer who wants to build their own system, and the Z420 is better for someone who wants a rock stable workstation class system that just works. Neither is a bad choice. Pros and cons to both.

        • Jabberwocky on 03/09/2017 - 20:01

          ok what about M910 tower ~$1100 approx

          i7-7700
          32GB RAM
          128GB SSD
          etc..

          posted exact specs below

  • jonathonsunshine on 03/09/2017 - 19:26
    +1

    Disclaimer: I don't hate Intel, I just think it's really important to support AMD atm.

    Read that 7th gen intel i# processors were actually marginally /slower/ than the 6th gen.

    Then after almost 10 (or more) years of total intel dominance, Ryzen comes along and suddenly 8th gen is increasing core counts and clock speeds and generally improving and dropping prices.

    Intel has been doing the bare minimum for too long, holding back progress we can't let them just dip into their war chest for a momentary burst of progress that will last exactly as long as it takes to kill AMD.

    TL/DR?
    If team red folds, intel will gouge every one on prices for ever and development of newer faster better cpu's will slow to a crawl.

    • Jabberwocky on 03/09/2017 - 20:01

      ok what about M910 tower ~$1100 approx

      i7-7700
      32GB RAM
      128GB SSD
      etc..

      posted exact specs below

    • josetann on 03/09/2017 - 21:58

      I too have been waiting for AMD to make a comeback. I used to sell PCs a long time ago. AMD and Cyrix were always the cheap alternative, both in price and quality. Once the Athlon came out, everything changed. You could get a higher-spec machine for less money, and you weren't sacrificing quality at all. Not one person was dissatisfied with their Athlon purchase. I even remember how excited I was when AMD offered a cheap combo mobo/cpu deal for anyone in PC sales. Snatched that up in a heartbeat. Built a very nice system.

      All else equal, I would go Ryzen. Unfortunately for me, it wasn't. Maybe next time.

    • skillet on 04/09/2017 - 11:15

      It's called milking the cow for as long as possible.

  • Jabberwocky on 03/09/2017 - 19:54

    Ok if i go branded like if I go with Lenovo M910 tower the price is 1650- 15%= $1400 - AMEX $250 offer = $1150
    These are the specs:

    Am I missing something ? Is this good enough for the money I am spending or specs that @Jonathonsunshine & @Joestann both of you are calling out are better ?

    Intel Core i7-7700 Processor (8M Cache, 3.6GHz, max. 4.2GHz)
Windows 10 Home 64 English
Tower 85% Power 180W
16GB DDR4 2400 UDIMM
NVIDIA Geforce GT730 2GB DDR5 64bit DP High Profile
DisplayPort to HDMI Adapter
DisplayPort to VGA Adapter
DP to DVI
128GB SSD SATA3
Slim DVD Burner / CD-RW, SATA
2.5 Hard Drive Bracket Kit
Integrated Intel Gigabit Ethernet
Intel 8265 2x2AC+Bluetooth Version vPro
7 in 1 Card Reader
USB Traditional Keyboard Black English
USB Fingerprint Mouse Black
Internal Speaker
Publication English
INTEL_UNITE_STANDALONE_VPRO
1 Year On-site
    • Jabberwocky on 03/09/2017 - 19:57

      also if i remove Win10 and go with Ubuntu it knocks off another $253 which i can then use to make it 32GB RAM or increase the SSD size ? I can buy Win 10 PRO online as @Jonathonsunshine mentioned can be available for ~$20

      • jonathonsunshine on 03/09/2017 - 20:35

        If you're anything like me, the first thing you'll want to do is a clean install of Windows anyway. My Lenovo laptop was full of bloat including something telling me how they have reduced the amount of bloat they have.

    • jonathonsunshine on 03/09/2017 - 20:27

      It's not really the same thing (as building your own) but for $1150 thats a bargain (imho) when you in factor in all the extras. DVD, WiFi, Keyboard/Mouse, onsite warranty etc.

      And especially if you can save another $250 by ditching Preinstalled Windows.

      See how much you save by ditching the SSD, 128gb is half of your stated minimum.

      I'd still want to go Ryzen but that is mainly for personal reasons.

      Things like Keyboard and Mouse I think I'd really prefer to get myself. But again, it depends how much you're getting charged. Fingerprint reading mouse sounds expensive.

      • Jabberwocky on 03/09/2017 - 20:47

        I am looking at Ryzen 1700X (love the reviews and whatever info i found until now) but Lenovo obviously offers Intel only.

    • josetann on 03/09/2017 - 20:57

      I still think something like the HP Z420 would be a better value. I haven't really looked into the Lenovo M910 so some of my observations may not be 100% accurate (take what I write as "here's something to look into further" rather than "this is gospel truth, thou shalt not question my wisdom!"). Also note I'm comparing the M910 specs you posted against the $850 plus shipping HP Z420 I posted above.

      M910 Pros:

      • 1yr warranty (I bought my Z420 from a different seller who provided 3month warranty, the $850 I referenced has none)

      • Additional graphics card (I believe it still has discrete graphics, if so you now have two separate graphics chips)

      • Built in M.2 slot. Z420 would need a PCIe card for this.

      • USB 3.1 vs the Z420's USB 3.0

      • Comes with 128GB SSD and the required mounting hardware (I bought an adapter to convert one 3.5" bay to two 2.5" drives for $5). You stated you wanted a 256GB SSD though. Mine actually came with a 128GB SSD, so keep a look out for that (or just buy a cheaper Z420 and buy the 256-512GB SSD you want)

      • Comes with either the Windows 10 or 32GB ram you wanted. Heck, I'd just drop Windows 10 and buy the RAM upgrade elsewhere. If you want I'll toss you a Windows 7 key that should work to upgrade to Windows 10.

      • Card reader

      • Bluetooth

      • Displayport adapters included (I needed the adapters and had to buy separate)

      • Keyboard and mouse included

      • Smaller

      • More power efficient. I don't know just how big the gap would be comparing apples to apples. Yes, the M910 has a 180watt power supply vs the Z420's 400-600watt, BUT the Z420 can handle a lot more too (more drives, more PCIe cards, etc.). Still…I'm sure the M910 is more power efficient with the same setup.

      HP Z420 Pros:

      • CPU has higher Passmark score

      • The included graphics card (whether it's the Quadro 4000 listed or the K4000 I believe it to be) is better according to http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-Quadro-K4000-vs-… (for the 4000) and http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-Quadro-4000-vs-N… (for the K4000). I haven't looked much into the two different cards, so I wouldn't be surprised if the GT730 was better in some ways.

      • Room for more drives. There's three 3.5" bays that are really easy to get to. Three 5.25" bays, one's taken up by the DVD drive. Put in a dual 5.25" to triple 3.5" adapter and you can easily fit six 3.5" drives. It's listed as having six SATA ports but all the ones I've seen have eight (four white and two grey in a row at the bottom, then another two on the side…the dvd is plugged into one of those two). Note that only two of the ports are 6gb/s. The M910 does have two 5.25" bays but they're not next to each other. I.e., no way to put an adapter to fit three 3.5" drives. With the M910's layout you'd max at four 3.5" drives.

      • More expansion slots. Z420 has: two PCIe 3.0 x16 Gen3, one PCIe 3.0 x8 Gen3, one PCIe x8 (x4 signal) Gen2, one PCIe x4 (x1 signal) Gen2, and one legacy PCI slot. The M910 has: one PCIe x16 Gen3, one PCIe x16 (x4 signal) Gen3, and one PCIe x1 Gen3. Also note the M910's slots are all half-length. If you have any desire to run two higher end graphics card simultaneously, the Z420 would be your pick. Note that I have no idea if the HP Z420 would support SLI.

      • ECC memory. Opinions are divided. In my opinion, if you're storing important data (which I am, hence the unRAID setup) then ECC is a plus. I'm willing to pay a small premium for ECC, but not much.

      • 400w or 600w power supply (I think it's 85% efficient vs the M910's 90%, too lazy to double check)

      • USB 2.0 ports. I see none listed as included on the M910, though see there is an optional bracket (these can be bought cheaply on ebay). The Z420 comes with four in the back, one in front, and three headers for up to six more ports.

      • Windows 7 can (probably) be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro vs the M910's Windows 10 Home.

      Personally I'd still go for the Z420. Assuming you take off Windows 10 and can get the M910 for $897, that's pretty close in price. I don't think either would be a bad deal. Yeah, the Z420 is more pro-level, more power, more upgradability, etc. But the M910 is no slouch, is new, has a year warranty, smaller, etc.

      • Jabberwocky on 03/09/2017 - 21:21

        Very very well put….before i start researching Z420 look at this now

        I was thinking going bare minimum: this is costing me $1000 only @Lenovo

        Intel Core i7-7700 Processor (8M Cache, 3.6GHz, max. 4.2GHz)
Linux Ubuntu
Linux Ubuntu Integrated - English
Tower 85% Power 180W
32GB （ 16 + 16 ） DDR4 2400 UDIMM
NVIDIA Geforce GT730 2GB DDR5 64bit DP High Profile
1TB Hard Drive, 7200 RPM, 3.5", SATA3
Slim DVD Burner/CD-RW, SATA
2.5 Hard Drive Bracket Kit
Integrated Intel Gigabit Ethernet
Intel 8265 2x2AC+Bluetooth Version vPro
7 in 1 Card Reader
USB Traditional Keyboard Black English
USB Calliope Mouse Black
Optional Dual PS2 Port
2 x Rear USB 2.0 Ports
Second Serial Port
Parallel Cable Port
Dust Shield for Tower
Handle
Chassis Intrusion Switch for Tower
Internal Speaker
Publication English
1 Year On-site

        So I am thinking to add SSD externally as Lenovo SSD is expensive.
        Sell 1TB drive, replace with 256 SSD
        + PLUS buy another 256GB SSD as i have the slot and 2.5 bracket = 512 SSD total

        256GB SSD ~ https://www.umart.com.au/Samsung-960-EVO-250-M-2-SSD_37107G.…
        x2 = $320
        So Total $1300 for overall setup

        • Jabberwocky on 03/09/2017 - 21:30

          and can replace the video card for Nvidia 1050Ti under $200

        • josetann on 03/09/2017 - 21:47

          Crap, I thought I replied to this, but instead made a separate reply. Look down for my response.

  • josetann on 03/09/2017 - 21:45

    HP Z420 for $870 shipped (shipping might be different price for you?)

    If lucky and only half the slots are populated: $80 for four 4GB sticks of Unregistered ECC RAM (auction listed as "8GB (2x 4GB STICKS) PC3-10600E 1333MHZ ECC DDR3 BULK BRANDS SERVER MEMORY RAM" for $39.95, times two)

    • EDIT: Please note that the Z420 REQUIRES ECC memory. The specs say to only use Unregistered ECC RAM. Unofficially others have had no problem using Registered memory. One thing you definitely cannot do is mix the two (so it's either all Unregistered ECC or all Registered ECC).

    Two used 2.5" 256GB SSD drives for around $100 each on ebay + $5 bracket = $205 (I see some for less than $100, this was a very quick search). Throw in $5 for SATA cables (with the dual 2.5" adapter you can only use one right-angle sata connector, the other drive is so close that a right angle connector won't clear the one directly below).

    Total $1,160. If you need a keyboard and mouse, add that to the price.

    You can say I cheated a bit. You can easily buy the same price drives to use in the M910. The M910 can also use M.2 out of the box. I don't know if using M.2 will take up an SATA channel, so double-check that if that might be a concern.

    Here's how I'd look at it if I were you.

    If you want to get serious with VMs, setting up a virtual home lab kinda thing, possibly having multiple "PCs" running off the one workstation (i.e. you have one VM with a dedicated keyboard/mouse/monitor/graphics card running Windows 10, and another VM with a dedicated keyboard/mouse/monitor/graphics card running a Hackintosh) plus various "regular" VMs with emulated keyboard/mouse/graphics, get the Z420. It'll take a bit to get setup just the way you want, but you should find it quite capable. If you're just going to run one install of Windows 10 as your primary desktop, only plan on using VMs to tinker around some (virtualized drives/graphics/keyboard/etc. are fine), and feel more comfortable with the year warranty, get the Lenovo. If you're somewhere in between, I'll recommend the Lenovo simply so you won't blame me for the HP's lack of warranty.

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