Solar Panels Vs Solar Panels Plus Battery for Large Energy Usage Household (and DIY Maintenance Care Questions)

AlienC on 24/08/2017 - 04:42
Last edited 25/08/2017 - 09:24 by 1 other user

I am looking at installing solar panels of some sort in this new place in Blue Mountains Katoomba as it gets very cold here and I find I need to keep the heater on nearly 24/7 and especially on at night.

Previously living more inner west using a heater was not really at all necessary even on the coldest of nights so that 2-2.4 kilowatts of energy was not being used even the air conditioning was not a necessity during the summer months but Blue Mountains is a whole another story with this past winter season being just as cold as the last and with minimum usually four guys all with our own heaters running during parts of the night the bill adds up. Not only that we have plenty of guests over all the time even more so at times than my old ten people house family so energy usage is through the roof to put it kindly.

Now I don't have many expenses besides groceries and occasional house renovations and repairs so I am thinking of saving up enough to out fit this place with some heavy duty solar energy and looking at batteries for night time usage when the energy is also if not more so needed.

Great thing is we have good roof space and no over hanging trees and lots of space for battery installs and inverters etc now my question is does the cost exponentially scale with more or larger solar panels and does adding a battery increase ROI much further.

Also what kind of maintenance issues will I have to be looking at regarding the whole set up and changing and diagnosing batteries every x amount of years.

Is there much personal work involved in installing and most importantly maintaining the solar panel only system vs with batteries etc or does the people who are normally initially contracted do all of that heavy duty stuff work.

For what it's worth I am personally fine with handling most of the maintenance and DIY home electrical and electronics side of things but wasn't sure what the legal protocol or best advise going forward with a system such as this was or is.

For example while anybody could hypothetically fix their own plumbing, water heating system, electronics and electrical/light fixtures and power sockets and things it probably isn't recommended to do so or even the best practice of things when you have licensed qualified professionals with the right proper expensive equipment to do such things reliably and properly.

What's your advice on the matter guys and how big do large solar panel systems go? What's the recommended sweet spot if any.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • D3AB on 24/08/2017 - 04:54
    +4

    If it was me, i would look to make sure all things that can be done to insulate the house properly have been done. Solar is great and i would love to have a system myself but if most of your energy is going into heating/cooling it would probably cheaper to look at better insulation for the home.
    Proper double glazed windows for example. They are expensive but won't have the same recoup costs of solar, and probably add value to the home.
    Off topic, but food for thought.

    • AlienC on 24/08/2017 - 05:00

      That is definitely on my mind as this place is a fixer upper. Most insulation and window repairs and adjustments are easy no brainer. My main concern is off setting or getting rid of that constant high electricity bill atm as when that slowly disappears the rest of the house renovations will fall in line sweetly.

      Already have most entrances and exits covered with draught protection and the windows are mostly tightly sealed when closed except for a few stubborn ones.

  • Euphemistic on 24/08/2017 - 06:59

    First things, reduce your energy consumption as much as possible, then build a solar system that suits your minimum energy usage. The most cost efficient method is always to reduce first. You also want to make the most of the sun and heat while there is sunshine to reduce the size of your battery bank. no point charging it all day then trying to heat a cold house and sucking your battery dry in the first hour, leaving you to draw on the mains for the lights and TV.

    Insulate everything. Purchase and install the most efficient heating system you can. Monitor the energy usage and then install panels. If you install the panels first to suit your current usage you'll end up with excess wasted capacity if you cut your usage later on.

    Edit: for what it is worth, we have a 4kw non battery system on our house. It has reduced our electricity bill, but we don't use a lot of heating or cooling and most appliances are fairly efficient. Mostly LED lighting and there is insulation in the roof. Our system is battery ready, and will probably look at installing some in the next couple of years.

    • AlienC on 24/08/2017 - 07:19

      That's mostly all done. The biggest killers are just heating really then probably hot water or the fridge.

      On the coldest nights we can have roughly on average 4 heaters for 4 people in 4 different rooms. Minimum 1 or 2.

      The worst of winter is pretty much up so this solar system would only be for the next coming winter really.. so not sure if it is worth it to even have a small 3kW system for say only 1/4 of a year and a 1/3 at most just for winter.

      Other months it's really only a 1000W microwave, not sure wattage fridge sticker is long gone, few energy efficient lights here and there, one Xbox one S, one 50" FHD tv, one 32" HD tv, two lightweight non gaming laptops, one 2016 September Huawei tablet, two modem/routers, maybe four-five smartphones and of course a washing machine not even a dryer. Biggest one is probably the fridge or tv since the washing machine is only used like a few hours a week at max.

      Those altogether hardly even add up to half a 2000-2400W heater at full load for a few hours let alone 2 or 3.

      During summer its just open windows and cold drinks and cold showers we have no need for an air conditioner anytime of the year also no real common room area to utilize it.

      • Euphemistic on 24/08/2017 - 07:47

        Still, sort out your heating before getting solar. A 3kw system is probably not enough to run your current 4 heaters in 4 rooms. Look for the most efficient central heating system you can get, but still insulate everything as well as possible first.

        A 3kw system might be enough to run your house the rest of the year.

        Our consumption was around 28kwh per day (including a pool pump) The 4kw system generates up to 23kwh per day in summer, and around 19 in winter.

      • IMFrugl on 24/08/2017 - 10:08

        The fridge and microwave should be low-medium consumption as they run intermittently. The biggest consumers are your room heaters, and water heater if it's an electric water heater.

        My suggestion:
        Problem 1: Water heater - change it to gas, or evacuated vacuum tube solar. Solar is the best as you have roof space. Changing energy from solar to electricity(solar panel) to chemical (battery) to electricity(inverter) to heat is highly inefficient compared to solar water heating which solar energy heats the water directly.

        Problem 2: 4 heaters churning out a lot of heat indicates that there is heat leakage in the rooms. You may need to replace roof insulation or thicken it for a higher insulation rating.

        Solar with battery is costly as scubacoles explains below.

  • Euphemistic on 24/08/2017 - 07:50

    Solar install are almost set and forget for maintenance. Check the panels are clean once in a while, monitor your generation levels to make sure it jp hasn't tripped out etc. that's all I've done to ours. Hose off the occasional bird dropping, reset the wifi on the inverter so I can monitor it.

    get it installed by professionals, there isn't much extra a home owner could save on in the overall costs, maybe running a few cables ($100?), maybe building a suitable battery storage rack.

    • AlienC on 24/08/2017 - 07:54

      Probably a stupid question since solar panels are put outside with the elements but solar panels are water proof correct? Just making sure haha lol before I think of starting to even hose it down or clean it with a bucket of water.

      • Euphemistic on 24/08/2017 - 07:56

        Of course, but I wouldn't recommend washing the inverter. Our installer also put the junction boxes 'under' the panels to protect the from the sun a bit

      • ozzie freddo on 24/08/2017 - 21:31

        When cleaning my panels I power the system down just in case there are any loose or damaged connectors or cabling. There is up to 600 volts in the system apart from the possibility of mains voltage leakage back from a faulty inverter. Also I do it late in the day to minimise lost production. I use a rubber bristle brush to remove the bird poo and then give it a good rinse off. If you are using detergent, use a car washing one to minimise any corrosive effects.

        • Euphemistic on 25/08/2017 - 10:47

          Sounds like a lot of work. I just hit mine with a hose from ground level. But then, my roof is 45degrees and it is too steep to stand on it and one bank of panels is way above reaching it from ground level - like 3rd storey high.

  • ESEMCE on 24/08/2017 - 08:22
    +2

    To answer your question..
    At this stage, Solar is only worthwhile if you can use the power that you generate instantly.
    As soon as you feed into the grid, the benefits plummet.
    Note that even in an optimal arrangement, you'll only generate usable power for a maximum of 10 or so hours per day in winter.
    In Summer that extends significantly of course.

    Adding batteries at this stage is not currently financially viable. The cost of batteries per kWh even amortised across their lifespan and ignoring (interest) far exceeds the cost of grid power at this stage, but the gap is rapidly closing.

    • mskeggs on 24/08/2017 - 18:19

      As you note, this is all rapidly changing.
      In NSW a feed in tariff over 11c is now easily achievable. This makes solar financially viable for every house with suitable sunny aspect as even if you used zero of the generated power it will pay itself off in under 10 years.
      Batteries are a close run thing too, with Tesla Powerwall 2 available at $12k installed. It will pay itself off over its 10year warranty too, if you use enough power to drain it every night. If you get the money for free (say, because it would otherwise be in a deemed pension account or term deposit paying zero real interest) it is an OK deal at current prices. Once the backlog of orders get filled we might even see some discounting!

      The advantage these things bring is predictability in the face of possible price increases etc.
      Batteries aren't as lucrative as straight panels, but for many people they will already be financially viable.

  • JIMB0 on 24/08/2017 - 09:45

    Don't waste money on solar panels. There are much better returns to be had by putting your money into crypto currency.
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/5002061/redir

    • AlienC on 24/08/2017 - 11:25

      Wow that guy is smart I want to suck his ..

  • 0FoxGiven on 24/08/2017 - 14:50

    I second what scubacoles said.

    Solar panels would make sense if you use the bower you generate immediately during the day. At night, you generate nothing. To make use of what you generate but dont use during the day, you need batteries. And for your household usage, you would need to shell out major bucks for the battery system and I don't think you can recoup the cost during the good lifetime of the battery system. I mean, would you even live at that property for 10-15 years?

  • Steptoe on 28/08/2017 - 14:05

    What is your daily kWh usage? Try to reduce as much as practical. Is your how water on off-peak electric?

    Get an electric blanket, but don't heat your bedrooms. Try to share the heated living space, and zone it off if you can. If not get a heated rug instead if you are still cold after rugging up.

    Does reverse cycle work in winter in your climate?

    As what others have already said, fix air leaks, and insulate the ceiling first. Even the reject shop sell door and window seals.

    How much roof space do you have available? Get as many panels as you can fit, but wait for batteries to fall in cost. Get the best FIT you can find until then. Heat your hot water with excess solar power.

    There are some cheap double glazing kits made out of plastic that you can stick on. Look at window coverings to reduce heat loss.

    Will be reading for others tips myself.

    • AlienC on 28/08/2017 - 15:38

      Thanks Steptoe this information is very valuable for others to also see in passing through. As for my situation I have done most of what you have said but definitely still need to invest some more time and resources in others namely fixing air leakages and maybe some double glazing.

      Right now my hot water system is a bit confusing as v my roommates have done some recent upgrades in regards to it recently but we are on split gas and electricity.

      Total bill for last three months was around $500 for electricity and $150 for gas (1614kWh for electricity with a rough total supply charge of $51.50 not sure about gas haven't seen one yet). This is for about five ever day purple but constant other families and other people passing through so cooking and showering is usually large and heating during the past winter months also large.

      As for electric blanket honestly I am afraid of it because I move around a lot and am on the heavier side and reading stories of it short circuiting has gotten me very worried since electrical shocks is one of my fears. Honestly it catching on fire is not my biggest worry just the short circuiting. I wouldn't maybe be able to sleep some nights especially when I feel like tossing and turning around.

      Last year my average daily usage was abnormally high like 42kWh this year it was only 19kWh and during summer months it is only about 11-12kWh. That's for roughly 4-5 people with weekly visitors sometimes lots of families.

      Generally we are pretty good it's really only the cold nights where we have to crack open the heating otherwise we are mostly all on our laptops or tablets or a small tv at the minimum. Our largest killers would be cooking and refrigeration and microwave use we are pretty good with bathing (I am really the only one that takes long hot showers once or twice a week otherwise quick cold baths the rest of the week or when I get dirty.

      Now with winter gone and spring and summer on its way there will be zero heating needed and maybe more cool showers required and a tiny bit more refrigeration needed to counter the coming increase in temperature.

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