2016 MacBook Pro Problems - Refused Refund - ACCC Action Possible?

b-t on 15/08/2017 - 22:49

Hi all,

Just wanted some advice about my situation and whether it'd hold if I took the case to the ACCC.

Basically, I bought the 2016 MBP when it first came out. Stupid, yes I know. I had a perfectly working 2013 MBP before this one and it was so good which was why I thought the 2016 would be even better.

I paid $3499 on this; extremely hefty amount especially since the 2013 was just barely over $2000 when I bought it.

I noticed the first set of issues when I first turned on the laptop. Distorted colours, touchbar not responding, but I thought nothing of it and just turned off the laptop by holding the power button. Turning it back on rectified the issue.

The second issue I found out probably 2 months later. I usually use the laptop in clamshell mode (ie. I keep the lid closed and I just plug in external monitors / keyboard) in the office. Basically, the up key doesn't respond properly. Only 4 out of 10 key presses would respond. Of course, I took this back to Apple and they were like "Oh, sorry.", and fixed the laptop.

The third issue I had was with the laptop not waking up after going to sleep. This seems to happen when I use it clamshell and when I pull out the cables for the monitor and go to a meeting room for example, the laptop won't wake when I lift the lid. The only solution in this case is to turn it completely off by holding the power button and turning it back on. Again, I went to Apple and told them, showed them a video of it happening, and they were like "Oh, never seen this before", but there's tons of forums of people reporting the same issue. Of course, at that time, I'm already done with the laptop. A $3499 laptop that doesn't even wake from sleep. I wanted a refund, but they stood their ground with stupid excuses like "You can't just trust everything you read on the Internet" or "We need to be able to reproduce the issue". But yeah, they took my laptop and a week later, they called me and said "Sorry, here's your laptop back and we can't reproduce the issue so it must be a software issue.". I am still experiencing these "cannot wake from sleep" issues, and I have solid proof videoed, but they refuse to accept it.

Last week, I experienced my fourth issue. When the laptop heats up too much, for example, if you're playing a game, then the keys will start making a high-pitched click. It's extremely annoying and there's even more people reporting this issue on forums. Unsure whether they'll accept this as an actual issue or they'll just say "This is by design" or some BS like that.

Yesterday, I experienced my fifth issue. When the laptop is heated up, some keys will end up registering double presses on a single press. For example, if I press 'b', I might get a 'bb' instead.

I have a Genius appointment scheduled for this Saturday. I am unsure what my stance should be; should I go in as an angry customer wanting a refund on this POS laptop, or should I politely tell them that this is seriously broken and I want a refund? I do have a huge feeling that they'll tell me that none of this has been recorded and they have no idea what I'm talking about + they can't reproduce so "sorry and good luck".

Computing Apple Computer Laptop

Comments

  • Ughhh on 15/08/2017 - 22:56

    So can you reproduce the problems to them in person at the appointment?

    • b-t on 15/08/2017 - 23:01

      That's the problem, it's quite hard to reproduce it on the spot. If I could then they would easily accept it in, but it seems that it happens so randomly that it's hard to work out how to cause the issues.

      Also, given that it's close to impossible to get appointments in general, if I did manage to have the problem on hand, I wouldn't even be able to get the next available slot to see a Genius.

      • xuqi on 15/08/2017 - 23:07

        Having used it for the length of time you have, I doubt any company will give you a refund.

        Fixing it is another thing and they are obligated to repair the unit as required. Go in to the Apple store much earlier than your aapointment, park yourself at a table and start gaming so as to heat up the unit. You need to demonstrate the issue/s to them.

      • garetz on 15/08/2017 - 23:48
        +2

        Magic word is intermittent.

  • frankfu1122 on 15/08/2017 - 23:18
    +7

    You could take a video of the said issues (e.g. pressing the 'b' key registers at 'bb') and then show them the video during your appointment.

    I did that with my iphone 6s when i had some color flickering issues that was very intermittent. Booked a genius bar appointment, showed them the video and told them it was difficult to re-produce and they just gave me a replacement with no questions asked and also apologised.

    • Marioedd on 15/08/2017 - 23:38
      +1

      Agreed. OP just try get as much video evidence of all the issues you have stated and show it all to the 'genius'.

      • b-t on 15/08/2017 - 23:54

        Yeah, I tried; that's how I convinced them to take the laptop the first time. However they couldn't reproduce and gave me the same laptop back :(

        • frankfu1122 on 16/08/2017 - 00:10

          Were you asking for a refund or a repair?

        • b-t on 16/08/2017 - 01:39

          @frankfu1122: Repair. I did ask briefly if I could get a refund but they said "There hasn't been enough issues with your machine to warrant a case to consider refunding your product".

        • Richardc on 16/08/2017 - 01:57

          @iPwnJ00: send in for repair for one issue every time, not all at once, then u have enough reference for refund.

  • Nutrino on 15/08/2017 - 23:20
    -5

    Why would you have the lid down while the laptop is on??

    • b-t on 15/08/2017 - 23:56
      +1

      It's called clamshell mode. You can in fact use the laptop with external monitors + keyboard and mouse connected and the lid closed.

      In this way, it's more like a portable computer than it is a laptop.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 16/08/2017 - 05:57

    Most MacBook pros experience the clamshell not waking/black screen from time to time. It is advised on apple's website that you put the computer to sleep when switching from clamshell. I find it happens to me 1 in 10 if I don't sleep the computer.

    Source: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201834

    • b-t on 16/08/2017 - 10:33

      Wow, that's terrible. Never in my life have I ever encountered a single laptop that would not turn back on after the lid being closed.

      • o53djz7qTPY4der on 16/08/2017 - 10:49

        I think the part you are missing is the removing of the DVI/HDMI/USB port.

        The macbook turns on after normal lid closure, i.e. no ext. monitor, right? If so, this shows it is to do with the removal of the device not a fault with the MB.

        Apple's docs say put it to sleep first and it wont be a problem.

        Option-Command-Power (or Control-Option-Command-Eject) are the commands and can be used even when the MBP is in clam with external keyboard.

        Another option would be to open the lid quickly before you disconnect.

  • bion83 on 16/08/2017 - 08:42
    +1

    Just record video when you are having these issues. Genius Bar people are always very helpful and I never had any claim refused by them.

    You should be ok

    • b-t on 16/08/2017 - 10:32

      I've done that. They won't accept it because they can't reproduce the issue on their side.

  • picklewizard on 16/08/2017 - 09:07
    +2

    https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/media/347756/kit-acl-factsheet…

    These are 'minor faults' as they can be fixed in a reasonable amount of time.

    What this sounds like, from the wording of your post, that there's an element of buyer's remorse involved here and you're seeking remedy for that, too.

    I'm afraid you're not entitled to a refund at this stage, it would appear.

    • b-t on 16/08/2017 - 10:29

      I don't think buyer's remorse is the correct term to use here.

      I'm a programmer so I use my MBP daily for work. I'm just frustrated at the amount of issues I"m encountering for an extremely expensive laptop.

      Think about it this way, how would you feel if you had something that you use on a daily basis (lets say for example, your car) and you were having a lot of issues with it. They might be minor issues, but you want to get them fixed anyways, (though I don't really consider them minor issues because not waking from sleep would be similar to your car only sometimes starting up) …

      You have to organise a time for an appointment to take it in for them to check it out, so you do a few round trips. Then, all in all, they come back and say, "no, your car is fine, there's nothing wrong with it". Wouldn't you be frustrated?

      Not only that, but when you take it in for them to do the diagnosis, they won't give you a temporary one in the mean time, you'll just have to walk / public transport to where ever you want to go. That's pretty much where I'm coming from.

      At that point, don't you think you would be thinking "damn, I wish I just chose that cheaper Toyota Corolla and I wouldn't be having that many issues!" :)

      • picklewizard on 16/08/2017 - 10:42

        Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but in the example you've given, you also would never get a refund (though they might give you a whole new equivalent car.)

        I'd just write a letter to Apple complaints, and maybe try getting a complete changeover?

  • Succulent Synth on 16/08/2017 - 09:53
    +2

    In my experience, being polite will get you further.

    I have a 2012 MBP and last year I was having issues with the hard drive cable. I am always polite and explain the issues clearly when dealing with this sort of thing. They replaced the cable and installed a new hard drive for free (even though the old one was fine) my MBP 3 years out of warranty. Their reasoning was that given the price you pay for a MBP you should expect that it lasts for a number of years.

    The guy next to me at the genius bar had an issue with his iMac and he was being an angry dick. They told him it was going to be $500+ to fix even though his Mac was newer than mine. I can't help but think that if he had been polite about it they probably would have fixed it for free.

    • b-t on 16/08/2017 - 10:34

      Thanks for your reply! I guess I'll go in this time and try this stance.

      If the Genius that's assigned to me refuses to help me, do you think it's fine for me to ask them to let me talk to their manager in this case?

  • kaos on 16/08/2017 - 16:06

    you've got a whole bunch of fairly minor, possibly software caused issues. Apple are dealing with it in a normal way, trying to fix what the can reproduce. You're a long way from a refund

  • bargainswarrior03 on 16/08/2017 - 16:56

    Are you getting laptop replacements or getting the issues fixed?

    It's unlikely you will get a complete refund for this product now (Apple's policy is to refund if you are unhappy from 30 days worth of purchase)

    I would argue for a complete replacement and try to resell the unit and recuperate your losses if you are sure that these are general issues common with your model.

    Under the consumer law, you would only get a refund if Apple spent a reasonable time to fix the issue. Knowing Apple, they will probably give you a replacement so hence no refund

  • ozchobie on 17/08/2017 - 08:03

    I work in the same industry and Id be surprise if you don't get a refund if you show enough evidence, again, if it's an intermittent issue, it's hard for them just to offer you any remedy without them being able to confirm it.

    Yes video evidence works, gather as much evidence a source have to get better chances. If it's a fault that disrupts the operation of your computer, that should be considered a major fault and you should be eligible for a repair or a refund under warranty and under consumer law.

    The 30 day refund policy usually applies as early life failure stage where if a manufacturing defect is found, you should get a brand new replacement or refund option.

    There is no reason to be that angry customer, trust me. It's not gonna help you.

    If still Apple refuse to offer a refund with sufficient evidence, then raise it as a case with them. I'm not entirely sure how escalations work with Apple but other companies like Samsung, you have those options.

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