Coles and Woolies Phasing Out Plastic Bags - So Do We Now BUY Rubbish Bags?

oztite on 20/07/2017 - 18:58
Last edited 21/07/2017 - 00:50

I am all for the environment, and I wish science has an answer (e.g. degradable plastic bags). Personally I use ALL my plastic bags from Coles and Woolies as garbage bags at home, and I assume a lot of people do this. Now they are phasing it out, I may have to BUY the bags, so my overall "plastic footprint" is probably unchanged.

So, is this simply a cost cutting stunt? Or a feel good exercise? Can we change the environment? Or, can we start putting rubbish in the bin without a bag? Would city councils accept that? What about apartments?

EDIT: I stuffed up the poll, should be:

I've always used colesworth bags as garbage bags and will start buying commercial garbage bags
I've always used colesworth bags as garbage bags but will NOT buy commercial garbage bags
I don't use colesworth bags as garbage bags and always buy commercial garbage bags anyway
I never use garbage bags
I am garbage

Poll Options

  • 703
    I've always used colesworth bags as garbage bags and will have to start buying commercial garbage ba
  • 11
    plastic footprint unchanged.
  • 41
    I've always used colesworth bags as garbage bags but will NOT buy commercial garbage bags because I
  • 111
    I don't use colesworth bags as garbage bags and always buy commercial garbage bags anyway - plastic
  • 8
    I never use garbage bags.
  • 59
    I am garbage.
Food & Grocery

Comments

        • [Deactivated] on 24/07/2017 - 13:38
          +1

          @bobbified: If they offer Click and collect I'm sure you will still get a bag. I'm thinking of going that way or home delivery

        • bobbified on 24/07/2017 - 13:41

          @gweagles:

          The 10c or 15c doesn't bother me at all - it's pretty much same price as a garbage bag, except these new bags would be thicker so less chance of leakage in the bin.

          I remember when I ordered home deliveries before and noticed that some of the specials in-store were not available online.

      • bs0 on 21/07/2017 - 23:16

        yes they do, at least the larger ones

    • jacross on 21/07/2017 - 11:00
      +3

      I used to be the same way (ACT has had a ban for a number of years) but you adapt. Sometimes I don't have a bag and I pay the 10c for a bag.

      • OzChick on 23/07/2017 - 22:29

        Yep. I always have a bag or two in my car or handbag handy. You really do adapt when you can't get the plastic bags so readily.

    • Meconium on 21/07/2017 - 16:33
      +2

      Change your habits then. Cheaper as well as better for the environment.

    • tebbybabes on 21/07/2017 - 20:02
      +2

      Neither did I, back then. Having to pay for bags certainly changed my behaviour quick smart. The disincentive worked very well. Not only for me, but also for my mum and also my mother-in-law. So in that regard, it was successful. All of us shoppers in the family are now far more aware of plastic bags. And it was only an annoyance for the first few months. After that, it was second nature.

      Oh and even if I didn't change my habits, my bag footprint would still be cut by a huge degree. When bags were free and I didn't care enough, I'd still have 6 or 7 bags thrown out with rubbish for every one that I used as a bin liner. Mostly because they almost always had holes in them but also because I just never need that many bin liners!

    • Jackson on 23/07/2017 - 21:35
      +2

      There's talk of using paper bags and newspaper to line bins. It's not the most practical thing to use - imagine trying to carry something wet in a few sheets of newspaper. We'd all be wasting lot of water rinsing out the bins more often.

      There a few things to consider regarding the above point:

      1. Most kitchen bins I see now are actually made to come out, so it's quite easy to carry the whole bin by the handle to the council bin without spillage
      2. The paper should do fine to make sure all your garbage comes out relatively easily
      3. Using paper solves the problem of non-biodegradable bags being used, but using some other non-biodegradable bag doesn't. Not sure if govt could just legislate to ban non-biodegradable bags in general but surely not while the current government is in one would think
      4. Cold water is actually quite inexpensive and has a very low environmental impact compared to plastic bags, in all three areas of manufacturing, transport and eventual waste

      So I guess I would say that using paper to line bins is fine, just like carrying a reusable bag isn't really a big deal either. Don't get me wrong, apart from carrying a reusable bag when I remember, I do what you do atm, but it's not really a big stretch to change IMO.

      • bobbified on 23/07/2017 - 21:48

        So I guess I would say that using paper to line bins is fine

        I've still got one more issue - the building manager would eventually come knocking on my door if I just threw loose rubbish down the apartment chute.

        • Jackson on 23/07/2017 - 21:54

          Sorry that wasn't in the comment I responded to. You would have to walk to the lift and chuck your rubbish in a bin in that model, but not that hard, most people don't have a chute anyway. Also on your point about trees for paper, actually environmentalists would be happy if we used paper, because provided it comes from a sustainable source, there's also the benefit that while the paper is in circulation (before it is broken down in the soil) it's actually storing a bunch of carbon, so it's taking it out of the atmosphere. Same for any other products made from wood.

        • bobbified on 24/07/2017 - 14:02
          +1

          @Jackson:

          environmentalists would be happy if we used paper, because provided it comes from a sustainable source

          Truth is, most of these so-called environmentalists and their buddies are never going to be satisfied. They'll always find something to protest about. I bet half of them don't even know what they're protesting about.

          Give it a couple of years when the single use plastic bags are no longer used - they'll start protesting about the thicker plastic bags.

          The only time they're going to be happy is when we're all carrying our shopping in our ball-sacs.

        • Jackson on 24/07/2017 - 21:37
          +1

          @bobbified: we should all be looking at constantly improving things, especially if there are good alternatives

        • bobbified on 24/07/2017 - 22:24

          @Jackson:
          While I do agree with you, I still think there's going to be protesters at every turn. You can't please everyone.

      • syousef on 24/07/2017 - 11:18
        +1

        There is an environmental cost to properly cleaning a bin as well. Water and detergent aren't magic and do have an environmental footprint.

        • Jackson on 24/07/2017 - 20:07

          The water, as long as it's cold, is infinitesimally small compared with the bag, unfortunately I cant find anywhere to point to that shows this, sorry. The cost of cleaning the bin, well that's a bit of soap and elbow grease maybe, and would depend on how often you want to clean it, once a week wouldn't use that much and the detergent is literally a couple of drops

        • syousef on 24/07/2017 - 20:28

          @Jackson:

          You really think the collection of water is environmentally friendly the way we do it? The soap goes into the soil or sewerage system. That you THINK it's less and want to prove your pre-conception is half the problem. I don't think there is even a universal answer. Different places source, transport, store fresh water and and treat then dispose of contaminated water differently.

        • Jackson on 24/07/2017 - 22:12
          +1

          @syousef: It can be, eg in Qld properties must have rainwater tanks, and in those cases you would use that and then wash your bucket over the grass, absolutely none of the issues there, from that perspective you are right. The amounts of detergent going into your grass, I don't know if that matters? And believe me I am not thinking, there's been numerous sources where comparisons have been made between eg. Using water and using anything else, and in many cases the amount of water used in the manufacturing process is more than the amount used when substituting water, for example when using a bidet instead of toilet paper, although actually according to some sources (including the Guardian) it takes more water to create a paper bag than a plastic one, so maybe lining with paper could be worse, but it would probably never be worse than not lining and rinsing once in a while

        • syousef on 24/07/2017 - 23:37

          @Jackson:

          The manufacture and installation of tens of thousands of rainwater tanks is not environmentally friendly. But I honestly don't know if it's better or worse than dams, resevoirs, catchments and piping.

          Comparisons of this stuff is actually really trick and can vary from place to place, time to time, materials used etc. etc.

  • trustnoone on 20/07/2017 - 20:17
    +1

    Personal opinion: They banned shopping bags in SA a while back when I used to live there and all that meant was I had to pay 15cents for plastic bags instead. I always buy bags since partly because I shop on a whim (randomly when walking back from uni at the time) and I can use them as trash bags (I'd have to buy plastic bags either way).

    I'm guessing end of the day the shopping centres gain money and I'm unsure it changed much in terms of plastic foot print.

    I personally would've preferred a biodegradable bag option (even at slight cost) and encouragement for using less bags (or using more tote bags). I kind of dislike forced bans and feel we're already too much of a nanny state (or country) to go so far as a ban.

    • Diji1 on 20/07/2017 - 21:12
      +5

      They banned shopping bags in SA a while back when I used to live there and all that meant was I had to pay 15cents for plastic bags instead.

      Yep. Coles/Woolies claimed they were doing this for the earth (they're so environmentally friendly with everything else haven't you noticed). I'm not sure if they did it voluntarily or whether it was at the direction of government being directed by extremists.

      In any case what happened was 99% of people starting paying 15c for shopping bags which seem to have about 100 times as much plastic in them as the old ones so the earth is worse off. They also contain colours unlike the old ones and in the case of the Woolworths plastic bags the colours rubs off on clothes and hands very easily like hold them and walk for 2 minutes.

      And Colesworths started making a killing from selling plastic bags which is why they agreed to the idiocy in the first place.

      • sparkles on 20/07/2017 - 21:35
        +37

        If Coles and Woolies cared about the environment they'd change their fresh food packaging at the supplier level. You should see the amount of wastage just getting a lettuce or cauliflower to your store. They come in waxed boxes which can't be recycled whatsoever. They end up in landfill.

        This bag ban is simply a sham to make people pay for bags. Their true care factor is zero.

        • pais on 21/07/2017 - 10:32
          +8

          The announcement for the bag ban came with an announcement that they'd be reducing the amount of plastic in their supply chain, too.

        • D6C1 on 21/07/2017 - 12:11
          +3

          @pais: Yeah right. lol cough cough

        • rodge26 on 24/07/2017 - 02:54

          Most Coles stores recycle wax and polystyrene broccoli boxes. A separate company picks up the boxes weekly.

      • speedyjonzalas on 21/07/2017 - 13:47
        +5

        This is not the case at all.

        The majority of SA shoppers now use reusable bags happily.

        They are much stronger and carry more weight.

        • greatlamp on 22/07/2017 - 20:14

          There is a study that shows a reusable bag are actually worse for the environment than plastic bags ( in terms of greenhouse gasses )

          It does keep plastic out of the food chain however

        • burningrage on 22/07/2017 - 23:36

          "Happily"

          Really??

          I'd like to see that at the next SA election.

        • algy on 23/07/2017 - 20:11
          +1

          @Superannuation: Only if you use it less than 50 times I believe.

        • Jackson on 23/07/2017 - 21:38

          @burningrage: Let's call a referendum! …or no, maybe just a plebiscite!

        • syousef on 24/07/2017 - 11:21

          @algy:

          How many plastic bags do you know that can withstand 50 uses on average?

        • algy on 24/07/2017 - 11:26

          @syousef: If you use the reusable bag more than 50 times it is better for the environment than platic.

        • syousef on 24/07/2017 - 11:37

          @algy:

          Break even point for them is debatable. I've seen different figures.

        • D C on 24/07/2017 - 12:56

          @syousef: A simple weight comparison would be a good starting figure.

        • syousef on 24/07/2017 - 13:14
          +1

          @D C:

          No it wouldn't. I see you doing this in other parts of the thread. Back of the envelope calculations can be useful but you don't seem to understand their limits. They are most useful when you have little at stake and can't justify putting resources into a problem, or as a starting hypothesis when it does matter.

          You need to factor in a lot of things in the case of plastic bags vs reusable "green" bags. Not just how long do they last, and what they take to manufacture vs plastic but also how long they biodegrade, what it takes to clean them, what one style of bag does that isn't practical with the other (and what fills the gap).

          People who think this is a simple problem with a simple answer, and that the push is towards "reusable" bags is not driven more by economics than environmental concerns are simply naive and ripe for abuse.

          All of our packaging needs a rethink. Why aren't supermarkets offering the boxes the products came in for carrying the products home? Take home free in a box would be a much better reuse of the boxes PRIOR to recycling and there would be less doubling up on transportation containers. (There may need to be slight modifications to the boxes as they split too easily.

          Bottled water is an abomination. Reusable bottles should be sold instead. That includes at events. Hell it wouldn't even cost that much more. Instead we encourage people to throw away the bottles and not reuse them "because they break down".

          And as for the bin liner issue. If you use no liners, you are going to be washing the bins more often using detergent and water. If you buy the bin liners especially you're just adding to the waste.

          Let's use the example of boxes of cornflakes instead of dealing with each individual kind of product and its packaging.

          So at the moment:
          1. Manufacturer packages product - often in a bag, then a box. Then packages the small boxes in bigger boxes then palettes for transport.
          2. Supermarket distrubutes the paletes, unpackages the larger boxes, and disposes of the boxes (hopefully via legitimate recycling
          3. Customers buy the little boxes, put them in bags to take home.
          4. Customer gets them home then bins at least 3/4s of the bags and all of the smaller boxes and bags inside the boxes and reuses the other 1/4 for other things including bin liners.

          Getting rid of the end level of plastic bag is a tiny bit of the equation. But if the supermarket can get the customer to spend $1 on a $200 spend on stronger bags, you've probably saved 5c or so in the bags and raised your revenue by 0.5%. Even better for you if you can sell $1 bags (so now your profit is up 5% or so) and guilt everyone into doing that. People will NOT reuse the bags 50 times. They will forget them, break them, leave food to grow mouldy in them. But that's better for you as you sell more bags and screw the environment which doesn't appear on your budget sheet. Better yet if you convince enough people of the lie they'll start abusing anyone who doesn't conform.

          You could reuse the boxes you're recycling them (which people could still eventually recycle), and it would likely be much better for the environment (but we'd need more than a few back of the envelope calculations to prove it). Still it doesn't improve your profit, and you are a business after all.

        • D C on 24/07/2017 - 13:25
          -2

          @syousef: I said it was a start, not a final answer.

          Ignoring most of your comment which is essentially a strawman argument (but but what about…) a plastic bag uses X amount of resources. Compare that to the amount of resources that the alternative uses, and that gives you a rough break-even point.

          Yes it's simplistic, but if you've got actual numbers rather than walls of text (which no-one reads), provide them.

        • syousef on 24/07/2017 - 13:29

          @D C:

          My argument is not a strawman argument at all, but you didn't bother to read it. You admitted as much.

          You're free to ignore my "wall of text" , but don't expect me to spend another second responding to you. You won't read it.

          As for numbers, I don't see you backing your facts and you're deluding yourself if you think I'm going to go hunt down evidence only for you to not bother to read that too. There would be even more walls of text.

          The world is not a simple place. Oversimplifying complex problems leads to incorrect conclusions.

        • D C on 24/07/2017 - 14:07
          -2

          @syousef: The initial point was comparing one-use plastic bags to the plastic tote bags.

          A strawman argument is where you bring in irrelevant points, like "but what about the boxes my cornflakes are packed in!!!" so you can change the topic and tell us you can't do a comparison because it's all too hard.

          Your 'wall of text' was basically "packaging bad, we need to change!" - yeah thanks for that, dude.

          It's actually pretty easy to solve.

          Government mandates that by year XXXX all packaging must be bio-degradable as according to ASA YYYY. No more oil-based packaging (PET, HDPE etc) is allowed.

          Problem solved.

          How hard was that?

          As for numbers, I don't see you backing your facts

          I don't don't have any facts I'm trying to back, please feel free to point them out.

          Anyway for amusement I found a HDPE bag weighs about 7 grams, and a green tote (PP/polypropylene) about 135, roughly 20 times as heavy.

          Therefore in materials alone a tote bag is equal to 20 ColeWorth bags.

          There, have some 'facts'. Feel free to prove me wrong. Show your working. Cite sources.

        • syousef on 24/07/2017 - 14:57
          -1

          @D C:

          Stop being condescending. I know what a straw man is. And the topic is packaging so there was no misdirection. Heavier plastic bags at customer cost and "green" bags are a brain dead "solution" that solves nothing compared to the reuse of existing packaging. If you think that's a straw man that's your problem.

          As for the rest. Nope. I'm not reading your "wall of text" if you won't read what I wrote. You lost all credibility when you said you wouldn't and asked for more detail in the same breath. When combined with your over-simplistic child like solutions to complex problems, I'm simply not interested in debating with you. I have better things to do. You had your chance at an adult conversation and blew it by refusing to read and misusing the term "straw man".

          Not the first time the gullible were fooled into acting in the interests of large companies on the premise of being green.
          https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/apr/13/death-of-dies…

          But I guess you'll label that a straw man too.

          Have a nice day.

  • shuss2 on 20/07/2017 - 20:44
    +1

    Maybe they will start selling material tote bags?

    • PVA on 20/07/2017 - 20:49
      +9

      Expensive to use them in the kitchen bin though.

    • Diji1 on 20/07/2017 - 21:16
      +2

      They do. However humans being what they are almost nobody uses them because it's inconvenient to carry them.

  • ihbh on 20/07/2017 - 21:02
    +20

    So Do We Now BUY Rubbish Bags?

    No silly. You start building up your stash of future rubbish bags now, instead of recycling the excess at Coles/Woolworths.

    • PJC on 21/07/2017 - 07:40
      +1

      I have been doing that for years, but I'm only delaying the inevitable.

      • D C on 21/07/2017 - 09:39
        +3

        Never mind double-bagging the heavy (and no so heavy) stuff, you could probably go 5 or 6 times before the attendant notices and tells you to knock it off.

        • PJC on 21/07/2017 - 10:04
          +2

          We may as well. If we don't use free plastic bags for rubbish we'll buy plastic bags for it. The days of a practical paper alternative are long, long gone.

    • burningrage on 22/07/2017 - 23:36
      +2

      YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Best response of this forum so far….

  • Hardlyworkin on 20/07/2017 - 21:22
    +1

    Maybe you need a poll on how many people use the shopping bags as rubbish bags or repurpose them. I buy garbage bags though probably fit twice as much rubbish in them. I almost never use plastic shopping bags though probably get caught out more shopping for other goods.

    Coles and woolies finally caved to the ban the bag pressure. Got to start changing the habits of the fat lazy people of this country somehow.

    • hashtagbargain on 20/07/2017 - 22:24
      +6

      habits of the fat lazy people of this country

      This coming from "Hardlyworkin" is bit much eh?

      • Hardlyworkin on 21/07/2017 - 09:57

        Haha fair point! Not working all the time shouldn't be mistaken with being fat and lazy though.

        • PJC on 21/07/2017 - 10:15
          +2

          Nor should re-using plastic bags for rubbish.

        • Hardlyworkin on 21/07/2017 - 11:47

          @PJC: sorry perhaps big boned and lazy or horizontally gifted and lazy then?

  • [Deactivated] on 20/07/2017 - 22:02
    -7

    I don't use plastic bags at all.

    I have 2 bins, rubbish and recycling in which I discard my items in accordingly. (apartment with "magic garbage chute" here)

    I use a re-usable tote when I go to coles.

    Maybe you should check your privilege level and stop killing the environment? There are tonnes of ideas on how to solve your retarded Westo problem.

    • StingyBritches on 21/07/2017 - 11:40
      +9

      "Maybe you should check your privilege level and stop killing the environment? There are tonnes of ideas on how to solve your retarded Westo problem."

      Tsk. Tsk. Everyone is different, chum. No need to get on a high horse.

      I personally re-use all supermarket plastic bags for cat litter and all kitchen waste. Seems crazy that we will now have to buy single-use, expensive, LESS environment-friendly bags in the future.

      • cameldownunder on 21/07/2017 - 15:14
        +4

        "I use ALL my plastic bags from Coles and Woolies as garbage bags at home"

        How does OP do that? I mean I shop, use 6 bags, but the rubbish produced by that shopping fills maybe 1 bag:
        Fresh Milk, Diet coke bottle, Nutrigrain and so on gets recycled.
        Food scraps go into my compost bin.
        leaves me with the plastic from packaging meat and bread, but that uses only 1 bag.

        • Jackson on 23/07/2017 - 21:41

          Clearly this person buys a lot of packaged food and not much fresh food, because yes that's a huge imbalance

      • Jackson on 23/07/2017 - 21:46
        +1

        While I may not have used the same tone, sometimes I wonder whether being politically correct in cases like this actually just makes it easy for people to perpetuate their laziness, or antisocial behaviours. Realistically it's up to all of us to do the right thing.

        Also on the re-use of bags, so do I and yes I'll have to find an alternative, but the idea being that in a free market economy we can then have to pay appropriately to dispose of our waste, and therefore if you want a cat then why should you have free bags for that? What you should have to do is pay for the responsible disposal and any additional convenience that the bag offers, and therefore the costs for those come from the right place and not from some other part of the economy (in this case people selling groceries).

        • StingyBritches on 05/08/2017 - 14:26

          Jackson: That's a reasonable and polite argument.

          Let's just say that I disagree with "…if you want a cat then why should you have free bags for that?" I wouldn't mind paying for bags, but only if they are the environmentally BETTER than the free bags. Otherwise, it would be uneconomical and a waste of MY money better used elsewhere.

          BTW: I doubt anyone will ever call me 'politically correct'…

        • Jackson on 06/08/2017 - 08:28

          @StingyBritches: well, that would be progress now wouldn't it :)

  • GOFYS on 20/07/2017 - 23:04
    +3

    I heard both Coles and Woolies were going to encourage customers to take home the returnable instore shopping baskets, to help them save the environment, and because they care so much.

    So show them you care too. Use their baskets.
    Make it a movement "Help woolies and coles baskets to save the environment"

    • D C on 21/07/2017 - 14:59
      +7

      You mean like we do with the trolleys?

      That'll work great.

    • noshopping on 22/07/2017 - 20:35

      NO chance in hell. Those "shopping baskets" cost $10 each. At wholesale price, it would be like maybe $5 if they bought thousands of them.

    • cameldownunder on 24/07/2017 - 15:52

      I should encourage them by returning all the packaging material.

  • Providence on 20/07/2017 - 23:25
    +7

    So Do We Now BUY Rubbish Bags?

    Yes, we do. The Gruen Transfer covered this back when some states banned single use plastic bags. What happened? Plastic bag sales skyrocketed because people no longer had used shopping bags to use as bin liners.

    • Sage on 22/07/2017 - 11:04

      Why would that be a good thing? They're free and soon they're going to cost.
      Of course the sales "skyrocketed", it's like if they stopped providing tap water and "sales" of bottled water rose. It's purely exploitive.

  • spychiatrist on 21/07/2017 - 00:04
    +20

    If Colesworth and the greenies really care for the environment, what they should ban first are the plastic water bottles. They should stop selling them. See what happens.

    • AlienC on 21/07/2017 - 05:48
      +1

      One step at a time man eventually we will come up with a solution to counter excessive use of using plastic water bottles. Maybe some sort of reusable drinking can solution with more widespread untamperable water fountains. But all in good time man.

      • syousef on 24/07/2017 - 13:20

        They're called reusable drink bottles and they've been around longer than bottled water. I'm old enough to remember when the sale of bottled water became wide-spread. I remember thinking "That will never catch on. No one is dumb enough to buy something that's essentially free for 1000x the price". How freakin' wrong was I. I got abused then for pointing out the stupidity of it too.

        • AlienC on 24/07/2017 - 19:24

          Yeah but that requires pre meditation. Not many people have that skill.. yet. Impulse actions still rule this world.

    • MrTweek on 21/07/2017 - 15:04
      +1

      Unlike plastic bags, water bottles are easily recyclable.

      but yes, there are countries where you pay a deposit on plastic bottles, to encourage people to reusable buy glass bottles instead.

      • decr on 22/07/2017 - 05:16
        +1

        Yes, in a certain country it's up to $2 which sounds nuts but the recycling rate is high 90%s and people collect them from parks etc. It used to be common practice sitting in a park having beers, when done with a stubbie throw it on the ground (not breaking it obv) and it'd be gone in 10s flat like magic. Stubbies were only worth 20c though.

    • Providence on 22/07/2017 - 00:53
      +4

      what they should ban first are the plastic water bottles

      The Gruen Transfer covered that too. Apparently it takes 3 bottles of water to make one bottle of water.

      • cameldownunder on 24/07/2017 - 15:53

        And about 3dl of oil to transfer them from France ( Evian ) to Australia.

    • nowindex on 22/07/2017 - 09:40

      It would be very difficult to stop the sale of bottled water. There's a lot of money in that with big companies involved (Nestlé, CocaCola Amatil). You saw how hard they push back at any suggestion of a recycling deposit.

    • noshopping on 22/07/2017 - 20:37

      Won't happen. Look at every major greenie group, and you will find the biggest contributors to their "green initiative" are companies like Pepsi and Coke.. It's like a failsale investment to ensure these groups will never kill their donors.

      • D C on 22/07/2017 - 22:08

        Look at every major greenie group,

        Yeah, gunna need some citations there sparkie. I don't recall the Rainbow Warrior being sponsored by Coke.

        Now 'greenie' lobbyists, that's different story. Astroturfing has been around even before astroturf was invented; see smoking, lead in petrol, CFC, climate, freeways, etc.

        Not sure about lead in petrol. The petroleum companies fought against it's removal (obviously), but I don't recall any 'concerned citizens' wanting to keep the lead because it kept the children safe or some such.

    • meowbert on 22/07/2017 - 22:19

      Agreed, banning plastic bags and bottles is a great idea. The market adapts and if people don't want plastics, industry will find solutions which do not ruin the environment we all live in.

  • AlienC on 21/07/2017 - 05:46
    +4

    I am personally all for it it will make you think twice about your purchases and overall make you a better spender and better thinker. A large part of the population are really impulse buyers that don't give two (profanity) about their consequences because it's somebody else's problem..that's fine you can be and do whatever you want but we all live on the same earth and breathe the same air and have to deal with the same trash that everybody puts out so this motion will at least force some of the lazy or uninformed bums to rethink their own solutions and rethink their own lifestyle's. It's the whole no smoking in closed areas debate again only this time it is the environment. And having lived in a household that adopts the no plastic bag nonsense and uses just a normal bin and reusable non plastic shopping bags for everyday grocery it's not that bad or hard you get used to it and it becomes easy even composting becomes super second nature and natural.

    • cameldownunder on 21/07/2017 - 15:18
      +2

      How much plastic do you think is in 1 ( shopping ) bag, and how much in wrapping a steak, or a potatoes bag.
      I think the weight ratio of plastic between groceries and bag is 100:1. You would do better in not getting anything pre-packaged and continue with the plastic bag.

      • AlienC on 23/07/2017 - 00:49
        +1

        True that but this minor win will go a long way onto bigger wins. I am all for reusable bags and using other methods such as Tupperware to store my vegetables and meats. Extra washing cleaning but it saves the usage and wastage of plastics.

    • Windows7forever on 22/07/2017 - 16:58

      You're a better alien for our environment. Us humans could learn much from you.

      • AlienC on 23/07/2017 - 00:54

        Thanks to he internet there are now tonnes of available information and great energy and environmental conscious people leading us towards better hopefully healthier much more renewable futures sometimes it's just hard to look for them because the information can be sometimes tough to search and find among the vastness of information that is the internet, pros and cons. Imho other countries like Japan and some other Scandinavian countries are many light years ahead of us in this regard.

    • greatlamp on 22/07/2017 - 20:16

      Idon't think you will change behavior at the checkout, its too late to change your mind then

      • AlienC on 23/07/2017 - 00:55

        What do you mean?

    • Xastros on 24/07/2017 - 15:26

      Given you don't use plastic bags at all, what do you do with you 'normal bin'. Do you just throw your waste in there, use the bin to empty into your kerbside bin and then regularly wash both? This is a genuine question.

      I am one of those impulse buyers that doesn't think of the consequences. Admittedly I am only now thinking of it because it will cost me a tiny amount of money (policy working as intended?). I don't even know what composting even is and I also don't know how much impact these plastic bags have or why they are that bad for the environment.

      • AlienC on 24/07/2017 - 16:49
        -1

        Well tbh we don't really know if the plastic bags are "bad" for the environment we just know they last for years and don't normally decompose like other materials so an abundance of flying trash is obviously bad.

        I wash the bin occasionally but not as much as I'd like to.. last wash was over 6 months for my normal bin but that is only for "dry" trash nothing organic.

        My compost bin which is just a small like office bin I wash every few times I empty it depending on its smell and how gross it is. It stays in the kitchen and I generally line it with newspaper which is somewhat biodegradable/decomposes.

        The outside normal bin is also the same but generally I don't need to wash it because no organic waste goes through it just dry trash.

        Basically all the packaging stuff and plastics that can't be recycled go to my normal trash which then go to my bin

        If it contained food I rinse it out and it goes through the sewage pipes then dry it or at least ring it shake out the water.

        All organic stuff is either composted or down the toilet basically where your faeces would normally go if given the chance.

        It's a simple system and I have found composted to my old ways it is better because it means no smelly bins and better waste management for myself and the centre it goes to.

        The environment gets some nutrients from the "waste" everybody wins.

        Just the thought of all the plastic bags being thrown can make your mind boil especially when you learn that shit does not disintegrate easily into the ground like say newspaper.

        I mean we are getting better at getting rid of all types of waste every year but we still have no magical hope for everything and until then acres and acres of good sea and land have to be repurposed for the sole use of garbage and waste disposal.

        It sucks to be honest but hopefully one day some genius figures it all out and saves us all.

        • Xastros on 24/07/2017 - 17:45

          Thanks that gives me some ideas to work with although I still don't know what composting is. Never thought of flushing organics down the toilet.

          TBH 15c per bag is not that big of a deal to me but if there is a way to avoid paying it and help the environment at the same time I figured I should take the opportunity. Plus I could buy a couple more fidget spinners from the money I would have spent on the bags.

        • AlienC on 24/07/2017 - 19:12

          @Xastros: composting it's just letting mother nature decompose the waste naturally. Compost comes from decompose our the other way around. So say your fruits and veggies ago those scraps instead of letting them rot in a landfill you let them decompose in your soil can be in a bin with soil in the ground with soil wherever.. and usually sometimes you can use that compost as fertilizer for growing stuff like pants and produce so if you have a green thumb (have a thing for gardening) it can be a win win.

          Well most important thing is to do what feels right for you and not to be forced to do anything you don't want to first rule of life right? That is why policy like this is so controversial because it heavily inflicts on your human universal right do whatever the hell you want aka your decisions even if it is for a good cause and it might help us curb pollution a little bit it still infringes on your right to free week in some way.. funny huh but that's life asana we must respect it and ask forms off it etc ad infinitum.. ok I'm tired nite I'm gonna have a good sleep goodnight haha lol.

        • Xastros on 25/07/2017 - 10:40

          @AlienC: Well it's a bit of a stretch to say it's infringing human rights. They aren't saying it's illegal to use plastic bags. Just slapping a small cost on it.

        • AlienC on 25/07/2017 - 10:59

          @Xastros: every action has a butterfly or ripple effect if you look hard enough but you are right its a bit of nonsense and silly to kind of call it something that it is infringing on human rights.. maybe consumer outrage or slight minor inconvenience?

  • inherentchoice on 21/07/2017 - 07:28

    We won't just have to buy bin liners. Now we have to BUY shopping bags.

    But what's even worse for the environment is now many people will keep heavier reusable shopping bags in their cars. Effectively we will collectively be transporting tonnes of bags MILLIONS of kilometers, and thereby burning much additional "fossil fuel".

    And how many dolphins will this save?

    Does anyone know how many dolphins have been saved by the whole of South Australia banning plastic bags?! Please.

    • ihbh on 21/07/2017 - 08:08
      +2

      transporting tonnes of bags MILLIONS of kilometers

      I wonder how the plastic bags get to Coles and Woolworths now?

      • inherentchoice on 21/07/2017 - 11:13
        +1

        Efficiently and very tightly packed in large modern diesel vehicles in an efficient supply and logistics chain to carry them a minimum of km for a minimum of fuel burnt. Fuel burn per kg of a big truck is much better than your car. Plus they are only 5% (or less) of the weight of the more heavy and robust bags, which themselves are not travelling a minimum of km but rather EVERYWHERE in peoples cars.

        Also as the poll suggests most people will have to buy bin liners anyway so there isn't much less plastic being transported to the supermarket in the first place.

        • ihbh on 21/07/2017 - 11:36

          Fair point.

          … until we develop unlimited free solar energy.

        • inherentchoice on 21/07/2017 - 11:38

          @ihbh: Even to make solar panels pretty much can't be done today without carbon emissions.

        • ihbh on 21/07/2017 - 12:05

          @inherentchoice: Yes, I know, we're still a while off.

    • chumlee on 21/07/2017 - 08:20
      +2

      Thanks Andrew Bolt

    • abb on 21/07/2017 - 08:21
      +5

      Umm, if you can even measure the extra fuel used by carrying 4 grams of plastic bag in your boot, I'd be very impressed.

      You could easily offset that by:
      * washing your car (removing 5 grams of dirt, and improving aerodynamics by making the surface smoother)
      * turning your radio volume down 1 notch (thus reducing the alternator load by 0.5W)
      * driving less aggressively one day per year
      * turning the air con setpoint up one degree occasionally

      • idonotknowwhy on 21/07/2017 - 10:00
        +9
        • washing your car (removing 5 grams of dirt, and improving aerodynamics by making the surface smoother)
          Yes, but At What Stage Can You Go to Get a Car Wash Financially?
        • abb on 21/07/2017 - 12:20

          I think the same stage at which you can afford to drive to the supermarket instead of walking barefoot uphill both ways through the snow ;)

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