Speeding Fine - Licence Suspension for 1 Month - Submitting A Review (VIC)

Looking4Bargians on 18/07/2017 - 10:23
Last edited 18/07/2017 - 10:30 by 1 other user

Hi everyone,

Just want to get some comments about submitting a penalty review based on the reason that speeding offence happened while coming back from Airport. Picking up someone at Melbourne airport.

I think there was road work going on (not 100% sure) but assuming 60 KM is zone instead of Standard 80 KM zone. I drove 65 KM. Little up on the speed but found out I was wrong when I received the letter last night.

I was fined for driving 65km/h in a 40km zone (due to road work) Western Ring Road, Deer park, Northbound, Approximately 650 Metres south of Ballarat road.

Got $428 fine with 4 Demerit points along with 1-month suspension due to exceeding speed of more than 25 KM and less than 30 KM over the permitted speed.

My question is what are the chances of accepting this for review and give an only warning or lesser punishment?

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Comments

        • TenaciousTom on 20/07/2017 - 11:23

          You can use the one month suspension to figure out why none of that matters.

        • DerpFactory on 20/07/2017 - 17:07
          -2

          @TeanaciousTom:
          I can't work it out. How is it dangerous?
          Why slow down the entire freeway when nothing is happening? From what I understand, the 40 is normally required during construction due to vehicles requiring movement and possibly overlapping the lanes, or other incidental obstructions. Which isn't possible when there's no construction going on.
          I would argue that they purposely leave these at 40 when no construction is going, simply to make more money off bogus fines..

        • TenaciousTom on 21/07/2017 - 11:33

          @DerpFactory: Because it isn't your job to decide when there is/isn't people working there. We've all decided that you should instead just look at the big (profanity) signs telling you to not go faster than the big number. You decided that you were better than everyone else and would decide for yourself that it is not dangerous. You can now spend a month thinking about why you're wrong.

        • doctordv8 on 23/07/2017 - 17:04

          @DerpFactory: If you can not work it out, maybe it is time to start catching buses. Freeway, side street, no difference to following speed direction.

          The road/area is a construction site, with lanes narrowed, vision obscured and unfamiliar passage thru etc. Sort of common sense in reality.Also, it is quite common for the machine maintenance guys to be onsite after hours, as well as the lighting and signage machine refuellers.

          If you ever get to be on or work on a road/construction site you will begin to understand perhaps. There is no such thing as a bogus fine as you put it, when the sign shows 40, you do 40, max, even if left incorrectly by mistake - end of story. Fight the in-justise the next day, not on the day if incorrect speed signs are up, but disobey the sign now at one peril. Is it worth it?

  • Gronk on 19/07/2017 - 16:16
    +1

    It's a 4 point infringement, you can't be serious about asking for a review, surely?

    • Looking4Bargians on 19/07/2017 - 17:04

      Surely not for Fine & 4 Points but may be a review for License suspension?

      • Gronk on 19/07/2017 - 20:00
        +3

        Why do you feel entitled to leniency on this occasion? The fact that you weren't aware you were breaking the law is not an acceptable excuse.

        • highdealer on 20/07/2017 - 19:03

          He was breaking the law knowingly though. He thought the limit was 60 and was driving at 65…

        • Cheapskate Paul on 20/07/2017 - 20:38

          @highdealer:
          Yeah,and you don't lose your licence for going 5kmh over, so your post is not well thought out. The OP is not complaining about paying the fine.

  • [Deactivated] on 19/07/2017 - 16:19
    +3

    The offense you are charged with comes with a mandatory loss of license (judge has no power to change that) and a conviction (judge has the power to record no conviction)

    If you go to court and plead guilty you will still lose your license but there is a chance that your sob story can get the judge to reduce the fine and record no conviction (but you have to ask for it)

    One way to try holding onto your license is to try getting them to change their alleged speed to 64 km/h (perhaps trying an internal review to claim you were only going 64km/h if you think that's true or meeting with the prosecutor before court in exchange for a guilty plea)

    You could also try arguing that you speeding 65km/h is not "Exceeding the speed limit by 10 km/h or more but less than 25 km/h"

    Here is the law that would apply to you if you take it to court and are found guilty (either by pleading or judge finding that you are)

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/rsa1986125…
    (1) If a court convicts a person of, or is satisfied that a person is guilty of, an offence against this Act or of any other offence in connection with the driving of a motor vehicle, the court—
    (a) in the case of an offence of driving a motor vehicle at a speed—
    (ii) of 25 kilometres per hour or more in excess of that permitted, whether generally or in relation to the particular vehicle or circumstances—

    I wonder if it is possible to argue that you were permitted to travel at 40 km/h but not 41 km/h, and it's alleged that you were travelling at 65 km/h - which is actually 24 km/h in excess of 40 km/h if you count from 41 km/h as 40 km/h itself is not "in excess of that permitted"?

    Note: I am not a lawyer, use at own risk

    also check out trafficlaw.com.au

  • prinsenhof on 19/07/2017 - 17:46
    +1

    I would just say there was no one actually working in the area and you thought some silly kids stole the signs from somewhere else and put them up as a joke.

    Then show photos of an empty work site which shouldn't be too hard, just go by anytime except for lunch time (they'll return to work to eat lunch).

    Then ask for a refund on your registration fees because they aren't doing any work on the roads anyway.

  • Efendy on 19/07/2017 - 18:41
    +2

    My mate also had a 1-month suspension for the same reason at the same location. He went to court. They waived the fine (or most of it, I don't remember) but they kept the suspension. He had a month-long holiday lol but YMMV. Good luck!

  • idonotknowwhy on 19/07/2017 - 18:46
    +9

    Use Uber and GoCatch for a month. Create a few accounts per week, and use referral codes. Your accounts can even invite each other.

    Cycle through $2 sim cards and different credit/debit cards + paypal accounts for your new accounts.

    When you start running out of payment methods, start taking sickies so you don't have to travel.

    You can probably get through the 20 business days that way.

    • JimmyF on 19/07/2017 - 23:29
      -2

      or just catch public transport like normal people….

  • [Deactivated] on 19/07/2017 - 19:17

    You will not get off. Pure and simple.

    The only chance you have is if you contest the ticket and somehow you prove that the cameras were faulty.

    This might also get your name shamed with a criminal conviction.

    And you didn't know it's a 40 zone ? Really … so many signs flashing 40 and construction zone, there's never 60 unless special circumstances. Almost always 40.

  • miken on 19/07/2017 - 21:54
    +1

    Darn, I got the same Infringement Notice today in mail for 14 June 17, 9:08pm. Same spot (Western Ring Road, Deer Park, 650m south of Ballarat Road), same direction (northbound). Alleged speed 71 km/h. $505 fine and 1 month suspension. Very frustrating. I remember I was quite surprised by seeing overhead signs displaying 40 there and the road being totally empty - no workers, no vehicles, nothing. In about a kilometer, 100 again.

    It is also annoying that large sections of Ring Rd in that area have no lighting at all and at night it often takes a lot of concentration just to stay within the lane let alone keep track of overhead speed limit signs. Plus mad trucks speeding nearby. Anyway, another lesson learnt, looks like the best way is to pay, get through the suspension and never do the same mistake again. Will have to enjoy public transport for a while.

    • Looking4Bargians on 19/07/2017 - 22:18

      there you go.. see I m not alone.. what will be your next step? i do need my licence due to my work.

      • miken on 19/07/2017 - 22:39
        +3

        Well, from what people say in forums the court option does not look very promising. At the end of the day we failed to obey the indicated speed limit and that's all that matters. I am actually quite happy I was not caught doing 76 km/h - if that was the case the outcome would have been incomparably more severe. One month is survivable. I still believe though this punishment is way too harsh. If we were doing 130 in 100 zone that would be a totally different matter, but 70 in a 40 zone where the usual limit is 100 at night with no traffic.. Sick of these bloody roadworks everywhere. Oh well.

        • EmCKay on 19/07/2017 - 22:52
          +3

          Wow, miken, I am genuinely impressed by your attitude. You take responsibility for your actions regardless of how you feel about it. Thank you for being a shining example of someone who doesn't have a warped sense of entitlement. It is so rare these days.

        • miken on 19/07/2017 - 23:01

          Thank you Fiza :)

        • JimmyF on 19/07/2017 - 23:32

          I do agree with roadwork speed signs left up when no work is happening, is a PIA.

          Clearly, the speed camera is set for 40kmh, so they leave this small section at 40kmh all the time I'm guessing.

          Like others, I'm also impressed with your attitude. You did the crime, now time to do the time!

        • gimli on 21/07/2017 - 20:44

          @fiza1981: well done miken. Fiza has judged you and you passed.

          Hopefully fiza will continue to judge people so that we know who these ozbargainers who feel excessively entitled are.

  • justhooked on 19/07/2017 - 22:55

    Don't forget to inform your insurance company may affect yor insurance

    • miken on 19/07/2017 - 23:03

      What do you reckon are possible ramifications?

      • JimmyF on 19/07/2017 - 23:34

        Its normally part of the policy and as its a loss of licence, it might increase your policy cost.

        If you don't tell them, they may reject a future claim. Its a risk you take.

        • ankor on 20/07/2017 - 06:43

          In some cases, they will decide not to renew your next period of insurance.

        • JimmyF on 20/07/2017 - 09:44
          +1

          @ankor: They may do this too. But you're better to pay more for a policy that's VALID in the long run than to be paying for a policy that they'll decline the claim.

      • justhooked on 20/07/2017 - 23:51

        My son lost his license and it cost no more but he had a larger excess .

  • JimmyF on 19/07/2017 - 23:16
    +1

    My question is what are the chances of accepting this for review and give an only warning or lesser punishment?

    ZERO

    http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?document_id=10369

  • tasty-falafel on 20/07/2017 - 11:20
    +1

    It doesn't help now but i'd recommend getting the Waze app for any future driving. Alerts you when approaching all fixed speed cameras as well as other mobile cameras which are flagged by its users.

  • bobbified on 20/07/2017 - 11:53
    +1

    The amounts of these fines are bloody ludicrous.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/07/2017 - 16:00
    +1

    See a lawyer.

  • TheBilly on 20/07/2017 - 17:03

    Don't be a defeatist. Have a crack mate !! Also let us know how you go with it.

  • Bargaphile on 20/07/2017 - 17:36

    Just do it, nothing to lose

  • UFO on 20/07/2017 - 20:36
    +5

    I got off on the exact same offence type.

    However, problems I see with your circumstances are twofold:

    1) Once you exceed the speed limit by 25km/h, you can't request an Internal Review.

    2) You can't demonstrate a clean driving history (I think I read earlier you had a speeding fine around 3 years ago or something?).

    My suggestion would be to contest the infringement in Court.

    Explain to the Magistrate that you don't deny committing the offence, and that you understand that whilst a temporary lapse in concentration resulted in speeding 25km/h over the posted speed limit, this was because immediately prior to the 40km/h zone was a 60-80km/h zone (confirm which), and not because you weren't being reckless or intentional in your speeding offence.

    Other factors that can help in your argument:

    a) You were on an unfamiliar road rarely/never driven on.
    b) Poor lighting.
    c) Driving a car you don't normally drive/doesn't belong to you.
    d) Changed road conditions/lack of road markings/signage etc, that caused you confusion/distracted you from watching your speed.

    Basically, you need to fall on your sword and explain clearly to the Magistrate that you do not deny you did the wrong thing, but as there is no avenue for Internal Review to explain your circumstances, you seek the Court's leniency while taking all the facts into consideration.

    If you can also demonstrate that the suspension will cause undue financial hardship or more than a small inconvenience to family members who rely on your licence, this may also help.

    It's worth the effort to dispute it, because there are certain points to your circumstances that may mitigate the penalty…. as long as you don't go in there under the 'just revenue raising', 'go catch real criminals', or 'I wasn't speeding the machine is wrong' tact :).

    Good luck and update here on how you go!

    • doctordv8 on 22/07/2017 - 11:56

      All the reasons - excuses - you advise to use in defense, are more examples of reckless driving. They all point to requiring paying more attention to the road, conditions and the Law, and being unfamiliar, slow down even more. Not an excuse to do 25k over in a 40 zone.

      • UFO on 22/07/2017 - 23:15

        I completely agree with you.

        However if you reread what I typed, I didn't say "excuse"…. I was referring to FULLY ACCEPTING WHAT OCCURRED WAS WRONG, and asking The Magistrate for leniency in the penalty imposed.

        I also noted that 25km/h over the speed limit and a less than perfect driving history isn't going help his cause, but in explaining how/why it occurred it may mitigate the penalty imposed. That's all.

        He was on a road with a normal speed limit of 80km/h. Driver inattention/distraction (yes I know another offence) caused him to miss the drop in speed limit to what he thought was 60km/h, but was in fact 40km/h. Doing 65km/h in that specific instance is hardly the same as purposely leadfooting it 25km/h over the speed limit. The circumstances are different, and I honestly think there's at least chance a Magistrate would agree.

        I'm not pointing out the above for him to get off scot-free with excuses. He's guilty plain and simple. I just think there's some scope to minimise the penalty.

  • Providence on 20/07/2017 - 23:37

    Were there any actual road workers working, or just signs that had been left out?

    • Looking4Bargians on 21/07/2017 - 09:15

      Just overhead sign ( confimred on pic ) no one on the road.

      • doctordv8 on 22/07/2017 - 11:51

        Not that this makes any difference.

        • UFO on 22/07/2017 - 23:19

          Yes it does.

          Seriousness of risk to other road users at the time of the offence is often taken into consideration.

          A road worker, pedestrian, cyclist, and of course other drivers are factors. If you receive an infringement from a police officer, you can bet those factors are noted (traffic density, road surface, weather conditions… all relevant).

    • doctordv8 on 22/07/2017 - 11:51

      Not that this makes any difference.

  • spal on 21/07/2017 - 05:24

    If your license ends up being suspended after the due process, you may also need to consider making a disclosure to your insurer. Even otherwise on renewal you will be required to to disclose it. Which may result in an increased premium or a refusal. If you don't disclose, and you make a claim they may refuse your claim for non disclosure.
    I am sorry, but looks like a bit of a pickle for you mate. Hopefully things work out.

  • gooner85 on 21/07/2017 - 11:23

    So I got caught doing the exact same thing on the western ring rd deer park north bound (exact area you got fined) which is my fault.

    Is a 100 km/zone, 40 km road works, and half assed it to 64 and got the fine and a 1 month suspension.

    The tricky thing they do is they calibrate the cameras on top to catch you at 40km/hour. So very sneaky.

    Anyway had to cop the month and enjoying the 1 month of 2 trains and a bus to work which took 1.5 hours (normally a 30 minute drive)

    Chalk it off as a lesson learnt and lucky you weren't anymore over or else 6 months!

    • Shadowsfury on 21/07/2017 - 12:25
      +1

      Same thing happened to me earlier this year but different location.

      First offence :/

      The suspension wasn't so bad - I was overseas for half of it anyway.

      The real annoying thing is now insurance - need to disclose to insurers which bumps premium up.

  • Cheapskate Paul on 21/07/2017 - 22:16
    -2

    There are a lot of comments here that advise the OP to cop it on the chin; you did the crime, so do the time. In my view view this is very poor advice.

    All states have different road rules (which I find quite ridiculous, but that's another story) so I have no idea about the Vic rules. In SA, if you rely on your licence for your job you can apply to keep your licence so that you can drive only for work purposes. So, if the OP needs his licence to keep his job, he should get legal advice to explore his options.

    This following happened to me a long time ago but it illustrates that the law is not always an ass.

    I got my licence in 1977, two weeks after my 16th birthday. I was caught speeding three times in the first three months. I went to court where the three offences were heard on the same day. I lost my licence for three months.

    Three years later I hired a beach buggy with some mates and we took it to the beach (one where cars are allowed) and I, being the lucky one, ended up being charged with driving an unregistered vehicle on a public road.

    By this time I was working on a dairy farm. The farmer I worked for had two properties about six kilometres apart, so I needed my licence to travel between the properties. I went to court and pleaded guilty, explaining that I had no idea that a beach is considered a road and that I now realised that I had made a mistake. I expected to get a fine. The magistrate then suspended my licence for twelve months, which, unbeknown to me, was the mandatory minimum penalty. I responded with something like “Oh shit, now I’ll lose my job”. The magistrate explained that he didn’t have the power to impose anything less than the minimum penalty but he could seek an exception based on the circumstances. He adjourned the hearing, went off and made a phone call, came back fifteen minutes later and asked “will you lose your job if I suspend your licence for two weeks”. I said no. He suspended my licence for two weeks!

    The OP is charged with traveling at a speed >= 25kmh over the limit which carries a minimum one month ban. If he had been charged with doing 24kmh over the limit he would simply pay the fine, maybe learn his lesson, and move on. Given the one kilometre per hour difference, and the exceptional difficulty a licence suspension would cause (assuming this is the case), based on my experience, there may well be scope for leniency.

    If the OPs licence is that important to him he should seek legal advice, not “cop it on the chin because you deserve it and the law is completely inflexible”.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/07/2017 - 23:57
    +1

    Speeding through roadworks is dangerous to the workers. Pay more attention next time, it's innocent people's lives you are potentially f***ing with.

  • doctordv8 on 22/07/2017 - 11:49

    Why bother asking us? Most of us as you have read are not sympathetic to you for speeding, in a Roadworks Zone, and for no real reason or cause to be speeding. Man up and pay up.

    Now, if you feel your life is more important and keeping your licence (restricted or not) after this lapse of judgement(I know ….we all have done it). Go to court and plead your case. If you have a favorable result thank your lucky stars because going by most comments here, your ass would be grass if we were the Judge. Save the grief…..drive properly.

  • polar on 27/07/2017 - 14:09

    Why dont you try finedefender.com. Heard them on talk back AM radio a month ago. Meant to be lawyers that have set this up to help people get off fines. I have never used them. But next time I get a fine I plan to.

    https://au.finedefender.com/

  • leoba5501 on 28/08/2018 - 22:50

    Hello Op,
    I've just got the same fine in the same location. Can you please share what you did and if you ended up with the 1 month suspension?

    Thanks mate.

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