Internet Broken - How to Make Telstra Wholesale Fix It

Hi,

*edit - TL;DR, telstra sent an incompetent child to fix our phone/DSL, which he pantomimed doing, our internet has been broke for over a month and still going, TIO can't compel Telstra Wholesale to do anything. Does anyone know how to speed Telstra wholesale up and make them fix incompetently performed work on our phone socket/phone line, extract an apology for a bad worker, or get them to refund service charges for eg. Netflix, which have been unusable due to their pissfarting around?

Sorry, kind of at a loss with what to do here. We've had sub-1000kbps connections for over a month now and I'm just wondering if anyone can help getting a better response. I feel like to truly get into everything that has happened would be so far beyond anyone's patience I'll just try and chop this down to the basics:

Had connection problems last year where we lost dialtone and DSL speed then fell off. Took about 3 weeks to get fixed properly. The telstra techs severed our phone line in two places to test the last leg of the connection between us and the pit, and left it looking very bodgy.

https://abload.de/img/clipboard01-sidetaps16yac.jpg

https://abload.de/img/img_20170707_13143394wao6m.jpg

this lasted about a year, to now, where we've gotten horrible internet connection speeds - dropping from 16000kbps, to 9, to 3, to 1, to now, where it can't hold more than about 500kbps for a few hours at a time.

Visionstream and Telstra have both been out here to examine the fault. Visionstream's tech said it was likely something to do with the nearest exchange, and something very close to the telstra side. Telstra's tech insisted it was our phone socket instead, and after giving us the runaround and wasting 5 days (he marked the job as completed on his end without ever attending our house or testing it locally), finally showed up.

Here's the job he did to replace the phone socket:

https://abload.de/img/p7110771-interior19yln.jpg

that's a gaping hole in a loose face plate with wires hanging out of it, with two post it notes he stuck over the rest of the hole. This thing will survive contact with a pet or child or vacuum for about 3 seconds, I think, and so much as touching it loses our net connection.

He also cost us our dialtone, again without performing any real tests on the site he marked the job as finished, and tried to leave. Had to chase him down in the driveway to get him to come back. Fixed the dialtone, didn't fix the internet connection (7000kbps or so, held for about 4 minutes, he left before it dropped out). Called up again, got him to come back, briefly dropped in, didn't say where he was going or what he was doing, later saw him working in the pits on the street opposite us. Eventually by about 4pm (he started at about 8) we got a 14000 or so kbps connection, but he never dropped back to check.

That connection lasted 28 hours or so, and then it did the familiar 9000 > 3000 > 1000 > 500. Where it has sat since the 11th.

I've since performed some tests of my own and I believe the problem is something to do with the line resistance on the last bit of line between us and the pits. Ringing our number, with or without a phone or line filter attached, will knock our connection offline. We can train the DSL to about 7000-8000 if we're currently on an active voice call, but not with just a dialtone. I ran this by our ISP's support team after I tested this out, and got told this was all well known in DSL support circles, and that it can often be to do with poor cabling that is frayed, or open to the elements and oxidising.

This is incredible to me, because I've specifically used the word 'oxidising' to describe what's happening to those open tap points I posted earlier. Every tech who has come out here and the ones last year have said this is no possible issue and this quality of work is fine. The telstra tech openly sneered at this idea and when I asked him to sheathe or cover up that first open tap point, he got annoyed and thrust electrical tape at me and pissily said, "show me how YOU would fix it then". I told him that while I'm not going to tell him how to fix it, legally he's the only person here who can, so it would be nice if he would at least try. He then blamed me asking him to tape this up - which he feigned doing, and then, it turned out, didn't actually leave tape on there at all - for the loss of dialtone on the line later.

I'm starting to think Telstra know for a fact that the problem was never anything to do with our socket and was always to do with the poor workmanship and maintenance of the local cabling and/or telecoms pits near us. They have pantomimed fixing it and wasted a months worth of our internet stuff and cost me dozens of hours on the phone or waiting or chasing them up for work.

I lodged a TIO complaint right around when the Telstra tech 'fixed' it and severed our dialtone and tried to bugger off, but I was told by my ISP that this doesn't actually do anything to Telstra wholesale, it just gets my ISP in the poo. Which is terrible, because they've been truly great all through this, and done pretty much everything possible to get this worked on ASAP and provided as much help as I could want. It's Internode btw.

It seems like Telstra wholesale are basically immune to any kind of prodding and are content to be horrible at fixing their plain old telephone system stuff. I'm sure they think the NBN will fix this, but out rollout date, about 2 mins from the centre of brisbane, is 2019. They are doing work that lasts 28 hours and it needs to last 2 years. We have requested a different tech to attend the site, but this now looks like happening sometime into next week, bringing us to about 5-6 weeks of terrible connectivity.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do from here? We have the option of Telstra cable on our street, and I was tempted to switch to it, but that was before it became clear that we would basically be paying them 4-500$ for the service of having stuffed us around.

Comments

  • +3

    TLDR; might want to make a summary there buddy :)

    • Whoops I thought I did, but it was so long I lost track of whether I'd even done it. This is the SHORT version of the tale, btw, I'm not kidding that to detail every single thing that has happened would be so far beyond anyone's patience I wouldn't try. I had to dig into a pile of notes to get this far :D

    • Shoddy work NOTHING fixed and not much of an attempt to find the real problem of the dropped line and shit speeds. is what i got reading it all.

      • Yep, that looks half-arsed at best.

  • They need to use a TDR to determine exactly where the fault lies.

  • Maybe the tech will want to help you when you show him some …

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0

    • Here's how things opened with the terrible telstra tech - in order to try and get some relationship with him going, I said how thankful I was that a real tech was here, you should see the work those other guys did outside - thank goodness there's a professional involved now, who will take pride in their work. He got visibly angry at this and I didn't know what to make of it, thought he must be having a bad day. An hour or so later he's putting post it notes over a loose face plate and pushing exposed wires back into a hole.

      I should really have taken "gets mad at the idea of someone doing a good job" as a bad omen right from the start I guess.

      ed - oh oh, the other great one, almost like something out of a bill hicks routine, was when I said legally I can't do anything about these open cables because they're telstra/licensed electricians only, he said, "what do you want a licensed electrician for?". Which now REALLLLLY makes me wonder about his actual qualifications.

      • "what do you want a licensed electrician for?"

        it's a reasonable question. why do you need a licensed electrician to work on phone cables?

  • -1

    Contractors [not real fair dinkum, telstra tech employees]… these blokes get about $125 ? per fault they fix [or pretend they fix].

    Now if they can do 10 jobs per day at $125 ? each that is $1250 per day in his pocket.

    Multiply by 5 days per week = $6250 per week for doing really fast shi**y jobs.

    This is 100% normal operations for some of these contractors. [shi**y jobs]

    • I asked my guy no where near $125, it depend on the job/fault type

      I forgot what it was, but no where near what you're assuming, it was low, if you're not working non stop including traveling you'll struggle to made median wage

      If Telstra was paying that much, there'd be a tonne of contractors out there constantly grabbing jobs… spending 3x as much time on a job still clearing 2k a week. No Chance

      After 2 contractors and 2 so called fair dinkum Tesltra tech including a professional from the UK (better training) who now lives here, my 5th guy a dodgy looking guy fixed my issue, it was actually 2 issues

      • -1

        Interesting, i have actually seen a job sheet that a contractor showed me and the cost was either $125 or $115 he was getting paid for the fault repair.

        Also one day a contractor parked in our driveway, ran fast to the front door [was in a hurry to get his next $125?] and asked me if the phone was ok now… i listened and it was not fixed and his exact words were "shit now i have to go back and do a proper job"

        That is 100% fair dinkum true story, he was a really shifty contractor.

        He is not the only dodgy contractor that has been in our pit out front.

        Long time ago i actually fixed australias phone line faults as a real employee [not contractor] and the current method of using contractors is causing heaps of problems.

        • The current method of contracting is shi't exactly because they don't get paid much.

          As I said if it was this easy, jobs would be done/snaped up quickly, we wouldnt be waiting for techs to come in the 3-5 business days they're allowed.

          The whole point of contracting out the work was because it cheaper for Telstra. This payment method your describing would mean 4 jobs day say 2hrs each including travel would still clear $2,000 a week…. that's not likely

      • Interesting, i have actually seen a job sheet that a contractor showed me and the cost was either $125 or $115 he was getting paid for the fault repair.

        Also one day a contractor parked in our driveway, ran fast to the front door [was in a hurry to get his next $125?] and asked me if the phone was ok now… i listened and it was not fixed and his exact words were "shit now i have to go back and do a proper job"

        That is 100% fair dinkum true story, he was a really shifty contractor.

        He is not the only dodgy contractor that has been in our pit out front.

        Long time ago i actually fixed australias phone line faults as a real employee [not contractor] and the current method of using contractors is causing heaps of problems.

        • Using your math, contractors would be on 300k pa, with that kind of dough would be alot of millionaire contractors driving porches, lambos, ferraris and 80k bmw's.

  • probably less hassle to just move to a place with good net. no point trying to deal with tel$tra if they have already decided there is no problem.

  • Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do from here?

    i will be honest, i skimmed your post as it was a little verbose (sometimes, less is more). however, yes, you have recourse, but it's not through the TIO. it would probably be through fair trading, and failing that, NCAT.

    are you on a contract? if so, you would have grounds to terminate the contract without penalty.

    moreover, if, after having advised telstra about this matter they continued to not honour their contractual obligations, they would be liable for reasonable costs incurred while you waited for this matter to be remedy e.g. alternative internet — keep your receipts OR costs incurred by you to have another technician repair it properly.

    i would recommend writing a letter to telstra (sent registered post — and most importantly, written in a dispassionate tone) advising them of the above, then proceeding in a stepwise manner from there.

    and oh, one more thing:

    extract an apology for a bad worker

    what meaning does an apology have if it's forced? it's like putting a gun to someone's head and making them say that they love you.

  • Something a lot of people like myself overlook is the ADSL splitter.

    Jump on Ebay and grab a Tesltra ADSL2+ splitter

    I'd used/tried numerous splitters when I was having problems. When a tech (5th one)decided to replace my splitter with the Telstra one, it fixed the 2nd half of my issues, he'd found the 1st issue between pits earlier.

    Got very lucky with this guy, as on appearance he comes across as one of those dodgy subcontractors… cheapo van, rush rush etc

  • Do you have a csg?

  • Are you on telstra directly as this will impact the result greatly in terms of customer service and support

    Furthermore the joint work and the scotchlocks keep water out of the connections anyway, it was probably shit to begin with and the techs under no obligation to do rework without an official request for this to happen via the proper channels, Telstra have a team dedicated to resolving lead in issues

    As far as the internal work is concerned, telstra are responsible to the first point, theyve had to terminate the cable to the appropiate jack, I don't see your issue here, the wall socket is pathetically bad and once again theyre under no obligation (without proper work orders) to improve on the lead in situation for you, it seems fine to me, yes its messy and unsightly but I can assure you its a bloody damn sight better than some of the sloppy work ive seen out there

    How was the phone socket before he attended, they wont improve on the lead in, just doesn't happy I am sorry to say, its not the best situation

    What is happening is DLM on your line, it reduces speed with a fault until the line stabilises, in your case there might be a fault further upstream causing the issue
    I would most likely say possible filtering of line isssues in your case

    Has the line ever worked fine?
    How was the wall socket before the tech arrived?
    To be honest, the crap work was probably there long before this tech arrived, don't grill the guy if hes done testing to the exchange and found no fault, most faults 9/10 are internal issues which telstra are under no obligation to fix for you, although in this case the lead in goes direct to the first point so you do have a little more leeway with fault resolution

    Escalate, Escalate and Escalate, I can't stress this enough

    What are your MODEM line stats? Please post them here so I can get an idea of line condition to begin with, Line stats show a lot about the condition and issues with a line

    • Sorry I can't work out how to multiquote here but:

      @whooah1979 & @baghern - it's a telstra line with voice service on it and a CSG, however, we were told by their techs last time that this applies only to voice faults, not data faults. We have some intermittent line noise - geiger counter style static audible on a dial tone as well as on voice calls, particularly when you've just picked up an incoming one. However it has been clear whenever we've had someone here to look at it, crystal clear even. We were basically told that if we complained about it and they didn't see that noise happen in front of them, we'd be out for the service charge of them looking at it, whereas, the data problems are ones we can at least track with internode and visionstream's reports.

      The line stats are:
      modem 1 (billion 7800n)

      https://abload.de/img/billj5swx.jpg

      modem 2 (technicolor tg587n v3 borrowed from a friend)

      https://abload.de/img/alcajnsz1.jpg

      the connect is on the dsl2+ init profile (I believe it is anyway!) for both of these, just from me playing with them for a bit. It can't hold ~3000, for more than an hour or so.

      Basically there's a sliding scale from a) when you last used the plain old telephone, and b) what annex m profile you have set. Recently used phone, or currently on a voice call, using the very high speed profile, you'll get about 7000-11000… for a few minutes. Then it'll hold at 7000, 3000, 1500, 1000, 500. It'll hold 500 for a while before dropping on the very high reliability profile. I do not believe it has anything to do with the telephone or line splitter. The DSL is disconnected if you so much as call our phone without any phone or line splitter actually attached to the line.

      The fault matches what can be found googling "high open" or "high open resistance", same symptoms. In any case, I have a pile here of 3 line splitters (two from telstra shop, one from billion), three connectors/line jacks, two handsets (one wired, one cordless), two modems (tg587, 7800n). Exact same symptoms, and not only that, everything's exactly the same as it was before our whole phone socket was replaced.

      Also, there is no home alarm system, other phone jacks in the house, extensions, etc. That socket in the photo is it.

      • Does the splitter actually say Telstra ADSL2+ spiitter?

        I also had several splitters, none of them Telstra ADSL2+ though…

        I also have a Billion, your problem sound similar to mine. The issue between pits is very difficult to track and require a lot of checking by the techs, obviously the first 4 techs didnt do a thorough job and I got smacked with $100+ charge, which I argued to be removed as my ADSL was still dropping to below 1000k

      • I think DLM is triggering
        I would suggest a port reset, change of port and finally a new lead in from the pit as the last resort to troubleshooting
        It seems like your line stats are quite poor though
        35db attenuation on shit copper should still give you at least 10mbit in PERFECT conditions

        Try forcing the line to ADSL 1, it will resolve the drop out issues

        High resistance might be the issue but the outdoor cabling is not a big issue, the scotchlocks are gel filled and rain and water CAN NOT enter them if they are terminated properly, its not the best work but by no means a problem, the gel filled locking units are very good at keeping a good join happening

        Could be an issue at the pillar / pit but open resistance line faults would usually show different line stats, it could be someone elses line with an issue at the pillar causing some form of interference, you arent in an NBN FTTN are you? VDSL and ADSL does not play nice together

  • +3

    Never depend on a 3rd party to touch your internal house wiring ie telstra.

    Get your own electrician in, and have them replace or repair all your sockets/wiring. You are responsible for everything inside your house.

    If that fixes the problem, then great, cause that is entirely within your control. If not then you can get a report from the electrician and start the process for fault finding along the other parts of your connection that is inside Telstras control, and outside your own.

    • Unfortunately, it's a rental, and our landlord is through private rent - my concern is more what happens when the landlord sees that and says, "well, you allowed the guy to do this work and leave, so how about you pay for the electrician to fix it". I had no idea this was what the Telstra repair guy would consider final work, I thought it was just some temporary thing he was putting together while he did other work on it. It is the least child and pet safe phone socket that exists on the planet and it drops the line if you so much as touch it. We've got a shoebox sticky taped over it right now but you know, as a permanent house feature, doesn't really add to the value of the house.

      • If you are in a rental, then its the landlords responsibility, you should of told the telstra technician you do not own the property and cannot give him permission to do any work in the house. Contact your landlord and sort it out with them. You made the mistake, you may end up having to pay for it.

  • +1

    Our internet and phone lines were down/almost down respectively for about a month once. After 3 Telstra technicians failed to accomplish anything we got our private electrician in. He identified the fault (Telstra's) and we gave that information to Telstra Guy #4 who was finally able to fix it. Yes we had to pay the electrician, but at least we finally got a result.

  • first of all, you cant do anything against telstra wholesale because you are not their customer.
    its ok for you to pat your isp on the back, but the fact is you are their customer and they can blame telstra wholesale all they like, but your isp is the customer of telstra wholesale and it is your isp's job to get your line fixed. thats part of the deal when they retail off tesltra, sometimes they have to get their hands dirty.
    as for the ringing your number without a phone or filter connected causing problems, well it should, you dont need a speech path to affect a adsl service, the ac ringing alone can do that, thats why you need the filter. you need to purchase a adsl2+ filter and swap it out with your existing one if you havent already done so. i dont read anywhere in this that you have swapped your adsl modem/router out either, fact is routers/modems do fail and they are not expensive to replace compared to incorrect callouts from telstra.
    if you have already swapped out your filter and route since this fault has started well you can scrub that from the list.
    is this a house or a unit?
    is there more phone sockets in the house/unit?
    if its a house, the service has to be provided to the first socket via telstra/isp, if its a unit and there is an main distribution frame installed they only need to guarantee it to the mdf. then all cabling beyond the mdf is the owners responsibility.
    if the picture of the black 2pair cable with the scotch locks on it is your leadin cable, it most likley has another join in it before it gets to your internal socket as that looks to be fed via internal 2 pair.
    the techs that come out to look at your faults on behalf of telstra get paid peanuts and are monkeys.

    • Further up I wrote a comment on what we've done - 3 line filters, 3 phone jacks, 2 different dsl2+ modems, 2 handsets. Everything is absolutely identical with all of this, and not only is it identical, it's still identical to how it behaved before and after the work done on the socket. Sorry, the post was already so long! There are no other services, foxtel, alarms, extensions, sockets, etc. Those 3 photos in the OP are pretty much the extent of the visibility of our phone cable setup from the street.

  • There is definitely a few line techs in this feed judging by the comments, Id hate to know how bad the re-rolls or re-works are on the Techs who have gone out.

    Honestly just tell them to use their Pulse Echo Tester function and locate the damn HR fault and fix it !!!

    Unless you're unlucky enough to have a Interference fault from another source….

    If the socket shown in the photo is the first socket, does it have a black cable or cream connected ? it looks white in the photo which means the lead in cable terminates to somewhere, Or you have star wiring under the house?

    • I have been in the industry a while
      The line work is pretty bad but the terminations are all fine
      I would dare say possibly a bad pillar termination or line issue
      I would run another cable to the pit to eliminate the end users last mile being at fault but all in all it could be interference on the line from someone else completely

      the problem is, the copper network is a (profanity) and techs are pushed to do as many jobs as they can

  • The DSL speed is your ISP issue. Telstra Wholesale is a vendor of your ISP. It is your ISP who receive the revenue to work with Telstra Wholesale..As far as your are concerned as a customer Telstra Wholesale has not involvement.

    Your ISP should deal with Telstra Wholesale not you

    • I will give you all a tip as long as you get 1500/256 on the line, it qualifies as acceptable
      yes its bullshit but thats the end game on copper

  • save yourself some grief. Put the issues to these guys and they will advise and if they can act on your behalf.

    (https://www.tio.com.au/making-a-complaint/types-of-complaint…)

    after this is lodged things tend to move up the order of importance. nobody likes having to provide the formal response to them so they try to resolve before report is due.

    • TIO might work, it might not
      OP should churn to telstra, only then will you get the best support and service

      • Telstra have to answer to them irrespectively though correct.

        Telstra make no priorities on things like this. the only way i've been able to bump myself up the list is by using senior people i know who work in the organisation in the past.

        Telstra get all correspondence so it's a 2 for 1 with a prioritised outcome

        It just sounds messy

    • We've been in that process since monday last week, it hasn't done anything - whirlpool suggested it gives everyone about 10 days before they really get into any trouble in any case. I've read that generally while it can motivate people who aren't currently doing anything or taking a problem seriously, there's really nothing in it that can compel action with any kind of "or else" to it. In this situation - at least as far as I can tell - Internode have done everything possible about as fast as possible, we're in Telstra's faults log, we've been in it this whole time with as much priority as they assign anything, we got a Visionstream guy out here pretty fast, etc. It's just that the TIO complaints process, as far as I can tell, provides nothing much in terms of rectifying "the wholesaler's contractor turned up and didn't take his work seriously, and the world he did is of a terrible standard". It's not really designed for making someone come out and re-do it "properly" as a problem.

      • Are you paying for a phone line from telstra and you have a seperate DSL service

        I skimmed the top it was quite a long post, but you mentioned your dial tone had been severed has that been corrected.

        • I know, sorry for the how stupidly long it is - there are whole other chapters that I could have put in there though, looking at my notes, emails, chats, etc, it's kind of insane trying to get a hold of all the crap that has happened. It's seriously like a whole other full time job with dozens of hours spent on the phone, waiting for techs, testing different modems and other gear, etc, going on for over a month now.

          Our dialtone has gone twice - once when we first encountered problems with our line yonks back, and once again last week when the technician tried to leave the job ASAP without testing if everything still worked. The crosstalk between DSL and voice (dialtone, voice calls, phone ringing affecting our DSL service uptime and speeds with or without any line filter or handset attached) and the problems related to keeping voice up seem to indicate it's a high resistance fault to me, at least, from my googling of it. The line is a telstra plain old telephone phoneline with the customer service guarantee on it, with a DSL2+ service from internode bought separately.

        • @stimutacs: Dial tones under the telstra contract are your leverage.

          The whole argument around paying for line rental was to do with your ability to contact emergency services if your service is so unreliable your loosing your dialtone they are breaching terms of service

          gotta be able to dial 000

          naked services and NBN are using a waiver to put the onus on you

  • OP is entitled to refunds of all sorts - on the service charge for the incomplete work, on the monthky charge for the internet etc. Best to call Telstra disconnections and tell them you are going to discionnect and why. These people are there not to dosconnect you but to ensure you remain with telstra, They will do whatever it takes to keep you as a customer. As long as you are with telstra retail and not a reseller.

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