Not Having a Lot of Money (Low Income) and OzBargain

LDemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 09:47
Last edited 14/07/2017 - 10:01

I've been using this site for about two years, and I've noticed what feels like a recent trend of some users blatantly brodening or getting highly 'moral?' and getting stuck into other users for example utilising rewards deals to improve their situation. I thought this was OzBargain, but there's people on a livable income slamming people trying to just find deals to have fun/do more/exist on tight budgets. A good example was the recent OzHarvest post. With rising costs of living, and very tight budgets, renting low income families like mine are even having to resort to utilising food banks to get by. In my case, I've applied for every job under the sun and its looking like I'm going to have to retrain in a different field asap, probably health. But regardless, did my figures and I still won't be better off. In the meantime, more deals for the working poor please :)

What ideas should our pollies actually potentially implement to improve the lives of citizens?

Poll Options

  • 35
    Food wastage should be illegal
  • 11
    A big increase in social housing developments
  • 21
    'Free' tertiary education
  • 11
    Another solar panel rollout with generous rebates
  • 17
    I don't care
Financial

Comments

  • abb on 14/07/2017 - 10:14
    +15

    The OzHarvest debate was about "scoring a bargain" vs "taking advantage of a charity".

    If you can't afford food, you should be taking full advantage of everything available. That's why charities/benefits exist.

    If you drive up in a Ferrari wearing a custom-made suit to load up on free groceries, you are scum.

    If you are an upper-middle class family and pay retail price for shopping there, you're helping to support further charity work.

    Given how many of the deals here are for non-essential tech, it's fair to assume most users are not in a position where they can't eat. Most users. I'm sure the people stocking up on 8TB hard drives and exotic battery chargers don't begrudge the poor from accessing assistance.

    Good luck in your job hunt!

    • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 14:09

      Thank you :)

    • JIMB0 on 15/07/2017 - 09:34

      A lot of rich people don't drive a Farrari or wear a custom made suit. There would be ones who rock up in an old car wearing clothes from the op shop to take advantage of ozharvest and you'd have no idea that they're a millionaire.

  • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 10:18
    +4

    Can't edit my poll but the other option I wanted was the eradication of zero hour contracts/sham casualisation. I've had so many jobs in the past 7 years, probably nearing 20 easily. You'd think it would be a no brainer considering it would get people off newstart/income support etc.

    • Wampus on 14/07/2017 - 10:40
      +5

      I've seen this happen more and more, businesses finding a way to rort the system. Zero hour contracts, no super payments, and the worst I've seen is getting young people in off Newstart on "administration apprenticeships" and having them clean toilets and windows etc because it's cheaper than a cleaning contractor.

    • Brendoo on 15/07/2017 - 20:05
      +2

      Govt abolishing offshoring so the Govt and companies hire Australians instead of cheap remote Indian or Asian workers should be a priority. Or heavily tax businesses who do that so the cost for those people are on par with Aussie wages for the same job, in which case they'd hire Aussies.

      That would put us on a level playing field rather than cause hundreds of thousands of extra Aussies to be without work. It would also have income tax coming into the country if Aussies did those jobs instead of foreign workers. If they were Aussies instead of foreign workers they would also be spending their money within Australia and thus further boosting the economy.

  • Baebs on 14/07/2017 - 10:40
    +2

    I don't really understand how your comment on brodening ties in with your argument; you seem to be assuming that people on a living income are exempt from greed. Not all Brodens are simply utilising opportunities to curb a tight budget, some people are just greedy regardless of their financial situation. Now, where do we draw the line? Should all Brodens include a statement justifying their financial situation following their "Thanks, bought x" comment? Of course not.

    If you're are one of those Poor-financial-situation-Brodens, tuck your pride in and refrain from obnoxious comments because that's where the stigma comes from. Other than that, do whatever's necessary to keep the family fed.

    • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 14:03
      +1

      It's more the annoyance of people grabbing way more then they need, but yes, can't do anything about it really. Potentially tightening credit lending perhaps

  • Wampus on 14/07/2017 - 10:41
    +13

    It's nice to see a post from a normal worker like me, instead of the 100th "I've got half a million dollars what should I invest it in" bragpost

    • tsunamisurfer on 14/07/2017 - 10:48

      What is a normal worker?

      You will find most people here are also workers, hence the ability to take up bargains.

      • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 12:47
        +4

        He's saying average wages and living typical lifestyles, not kids with parents who own multiples properties wondering where they should put there 60k in pocket money or medical professionals with many negatively geared properties avoiding paying for financial advice

        • tsunamisurfer on 14/07/2017 - 12:55
          +1

          And those average / typical lifestyles would be funne enough quite typical within this community. You have picked a couple of threads of people annoucing their wealth and come to the conclusion that its most of ozbargain. Its not.

          "medical professionals with many negatively geared properties avoiding paying for financial advice"

          Dafuq?

        • [Deactivated] on 14/07/2017 - 13:14
          -1

          rupertmurCuck, you seem bitter at the success of others, they worked hard to get there m8

        • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 13:20

          @Jason Genova:

          Working hard by getting other people to pay off their mortgages and unfair tax breaks by the government? Give me a break

        • onetwothreefour on 14/07/2017 - 13:46

          @RupertMurduck: that's not the majority of well off people, you seem to think that there are only two types of people, the poor and the rich who are supported by their parents. There are many people in the middle who have worked hard for what they have, I am one of them.

        • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 13:48
          +1

          @onetwothree: If there's one thing I know from my degree its class hierarchies, yes, I am aware this is a fact

        • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 14:04
          +1

          @tsunamisurfer: in ref to this guy https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/317752

        • onetwothreefour on 14/07/2017 - 14:21

          @RupertMurduck: I don't disagree with you on that but I'm saying that there are more than you seem to think there is.

        • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 14:28
          +1

          @onetwothree: I hope for all of us people can still get into that position

        • onetwothreefour on 14/07/2017 - 14:33

          @RupertMurduck: which position? You can get to any position that you want to if you try hard enough.

        • John Kimble on 14/07/2017 - 15:38
          +1

          @onetwothree: Pretty sure I couldn't give myself a gobby, no matter how hard I try. Not that I want to.

        • onetwothreefour on 14/07/2017 - 15:48

          @John Kimble: come on, you know you want to :o

        • TheBilly on 15/07/2017 - 08:41

          @RupertMurduck:

          Its all about attitude. Sadly.

      • Sweetnsour on 15/07/2017 - 08:46
        +2

        Depends who you compare with. Everyone in Australia is better off than most ppl in developing countries. If we're comparing with millionaires than you are worse off.

        The moral of the story, stop comparing with others and just appreciate you have a safety net in Australia, healthcare and free education and most importantly your family. Other countries would be so lucky.

  • tsunamisurfer on 14/07/2017 - 10:45
    +2

    OP….

    What do you mean 'Food Wastage should be illegal'?

    Is this at the individual level where one cannot throw out that unwanted cauliflower from one's dinner? Or is it at the Commercial level where Woolies must not chuck their end of life food in the Dumpster out back? Or events caterers cannot throw away good food at the end of an event?

    How do you propose to police such illegalities? And what are the penalties?

    'Free' Tertiary education….

    How do you propose the government pays for this? The government is in debt, we are still running deficits WITH increasing the Tertiary fees (amongst other fiscal policies).

    I find it funny that those who contribute the least to society expect society to provide them with more (free education, free housing).

    • John Kimble on 14/07/2017 - 11:07

      Easy answer. They should print more money and give it out. :p

    • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 12:32
      +1

      Well how can you expect in your words 'people who contribute the least want x' when the cost is prohibitive to better themselves? A good example is a arts degree pushing nearly $50,000; it's ludicrous, especially when the odds are closing in on getting a job from them, but on the other hand they are good for society

      • tsunamisurfer on 14/07/2017 - 12:52
        +1

        The mechanism is already in place to enable those who cannot afford to pay for tertiary education to still take up higher learning and repay the fees later on via HECS.

        In fact the scheme is very generous, the amount loaned attracts zero interest and need not be repaid if the student is earning under the $55k threshold (which considering your choice of degree, you won't ever have to worry about exceeding).

    • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 13:00
      +1

      Re food wastage, it's crazy how much food supermarkets waste. Prices are sky high and so much is being thrown out.

      • scrimshaw on 14/07/2017 - 13:06

        Supermarkets partner up with some organisations that take food away and give away to the needy.

        For example, Coles partners with Second Bite
        https://www.secondbite.org/our-supporters/our-supporters-2/

        Shop and Share is a Woolworth's campaign, enabled by FoodBank.org.au
        http://www.foodbank.org.au/

        and they do a pretty efficient job of not wasting food. Of course, food that are perishable and cannot tolerate changes in temperature are usually better to be thrown out than donated, because of food handling regulations (HACCP)

        In any case, there is enough food for everyone in australia. The main problem is logistics — the physical movement of goods from one place to another costs money. It is cheaper for a supermarket to toss out food than it is to ship it to a foodbank (think costs of paying $$ to people to sort, package, refrigerate and ship the stuff),

      • tsunamisurfer on 14/07/2017 - 13:16
        -1

        Bread $0.85c

        Milk $2.00 for 2L.

        Eggs are dropping in price too thanks to competition between the majors.

        I've just listed 3 major staples.

        Can you please explain how prices are 'sky high'?

        Why are you concerned with food wastage anyway, at the end of the day those items belong to the Supermarkets, not to you.

        • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 13:23

          But theres many families who dont access those services. Surely current methods of food production are unsustainable

        • tsunamisurfer on 14/07/2017 - 13:54
          +1

          @RupertMurduck:

          Where in my post do you read any references to any 'services'?

          First you were worried abou Brodening, then high morals, then zero hour contracts, then Sham casualisation, then getting an Arts degree, then food wastage, then sky high prices, now sustainable living.

          When are you going to share your concerns about Donald Trump, the situation in Western Africa and Global Warming?

        • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 13:56

          @tsunamisurfer: They aren't my immediate material concerns. Currently I can't afford to heat my house without EAPA vouchers. So that's a pretty big one. Stop generalising.

        • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 14:06

          @tsunamisurfer: sorry meant comment above re Second Bite etc

    • mskeggs on 14/07/2017 - 13:47
      +3

      'Free' Tertiary education
      Better educated people earn more and pay higher taxes. Discouraging education by applying substantial costs is a very short sighted option.

      The government is in debt, we are still running deficits WITH increasing the Tertiary fees (amongst other fiscal policies).
      Sure, while it is cutting corporate taxes and excluding or discounting the tax paid on capital gains in the last few years of property bubble (as an example of an area extremely lightly taxed). If the government wanted to invest in the future, rather than the past (sorry young people) they could easily find a way.

      I find it funny that those who contribute the least to society
      The majority of low income people I know are very active in society, volunteering, attending church, P&C meetings, running sports teams. Financial contributions are a small part of contributing to society. If everyone loses all their money, you can still have a society. If everyone only has money but nothing else, society fails to exist.

      • tsunamisurfer on 14/07/2017 - 14:06
        -2

        "Better educated people earn more and pay higher taxes. Discouraging education by applying substantial costs is a very short sighted option."

        OP already has taken up highler leaarning with a degree.

        @RupertMurduck:

        The result of that is 20 jobs in 7 years and a severe dislike for casual employment whilst happily taking benefits AND using FoodBank ffs.

        • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 15:06

          What? Insecure work by the very nature of it is what it is, you are just an arsehole

    • abb on 14/07/2017 - 14:33
      +4

      I find it funny that those who contribute the least to society expect society to provide them with more (free education, free housing).

      It's also funny how those who have benefited most from society expect to give the least back (offshoring profits, not paying for negative externalities, treating staff poorly)

      These are of course both gross generalizations / stereotypes, there exist poor people who refuse hand-outs and rich people who do a lot of good.

    • Brendoo on 15/07/2017 - 20:17

      Over time free tertiary education pays for itself in the huge boost to the economy due to the huge amount of highly educated citizens and the flow on effects from that.

      e.g. look at leading countries such as Germany and others in northern Europe where education is free, right up to PhD level and how well their economies do as a result and how great the standard of living is (yes, I've lived there).

      Of course those countries also control the cost of housing and other costs of living to ensure they never ever increase above certain percentage thresholds, unlike Australia where the Govt doesn't seem to ever care (or have a clue) and the cost of living just gets out of control for large parts of society and looks to be getting worse every year, with no indication anything is headed in the right direction.

  • scrimshaw on 14/07/2017 - 11:08
    +6

    Free tertiary education comes at a cost of higher taxes. If we take Germany as a model, we would have to tackle the following issues

    1. You'd have to agree to a tax rate increase
    2. Some universities may be underfunded and run into funding issues
    3. A decrease in the number of places a student can enrol (limited availability)
    • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 13:25

      I suppose my broader concern is how long will HECS even last, university debt is one of the political footballs

      • scrimshaw on 14/07/2017 - 13:29
        +1

        They reduced the income threshold for repayments down to $42,000 a year, in the current budget and this will persist until 2019. This is to basically chase down the bad debt as there are many students out there either not making enough money, under-employed or not declaring tax properly.

        There are also a lot of private colleges which scam students into taking VET FEE-HELP loans into studying courses that don't lead to jobs, leading to the loans remaining unpaid, which increases bad debt.

        I think HECs will continue to stay as there might be a very big backlash if they removed it completely.

        • DemocracyManifest on 14/07/2017 - 14:01
          +2

          I worked in the sector as a union rep for a short time, and the value for money is decreasing. Even as a student by my third year I thought it was pretty unbelievable what I was being charged compared to what I was getting. Universities are pumping money into 'blended learning' departments so more and more students can learn at home, pay all their staff less, and multiple choice exams are on the rise. I just personally think institutions being able to set their own fees and also HECS is contributing to their downfall in status, they've become degree mills because its big money. Worthless expensive pieces of paper especially if they don't lead to jobs.

  • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2017 - 08:53
    +1

    Inflation is a real pressure here in Australia for people trying to raise a family , in fact it's cheaper just to import workers than to raise and educate them here , and their not so worried about their safety or rights .

    The government is out of control being pulled by special interests in all directions ,then they look for a quick fix and a cheap headline

    Perhaps we should stop spending (shock horror) on wants and stick to what u need ,like a little house in the country

    City livin is easy livin but if you're lifestyle is killing you ?

    Just random thoughts

  • TheBilly on 15/07/2017 - 09:01
    +4

    OP Im not being condescending or attacking personally, but based on your responses and your tight financial situation you come across as very bitter … I would say 70% of people bust their balls for what they have. I.e I retrained in my late 20's on a 30k income with fulltime work and full time study amd am now being able to walk into 6 figure incomes whenever (thank god). Ive had nervous breakdowns and burnouts throughout, but just kept going … What you need to do is sit there and reflect, what decisions did you make that resulted in your situation. Purely internal reflection, then sit there and figure out what to do to move forward. I.e. I can give you tips, a delivery van driver can earn $1.5k a week a truck driver more, construction labourers with crane tickets or fork tickets $1k-$2k per week, are you in a relationship? Does your partner work? If not why not? Double your income? Shift workers in factories can go up to $1.5k on overtime, Uber eats $1k a week, $1.5k uber driver. Instead of becoming a union rep and complaining how your arts degree is not earning you money, or why the government should do more, look after your own well being and do something different. All the above are unskilled work, if you really really want and are easy to get into retrain while doing a higher paid unskilled job. Work longer while your young. Under 35? Work 7 days a week?

    • TheBilly on 15/07/2017 - 09:04

      Ps. Im not in any great financial position. But I have not been able to pay bills at one point also. Being able to pay bills and buy a little on top is a great feeling.

    • tranter on 15/07/2017 - 15:36
      +2

      I'd like to know how many hours these 1.5k/week Uber drivers are doing.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2017 - 15:52
        +1

        Maybe they have a taxi licence on the side to supplement the uber driving and the missus cleans toilets so they'll be cleaning up , living the dream
        Tiny unit sized house in far western suburbs , here we come .
        yey

        • TheBilly on 15/07/2017 - 22:28

          Lifestyle and purchasing decisions are a choice.. what is being discussed here is having no money, point im trying to make is you can have money if you stop being a self apologist.

        • DemocracyManifest on 16/07/2017 - 02:42
          +1

          @TheBilly: I'd disagree. A good quote I try to follow is 'I must be successful because I owe everybody money'. I work 3 casual jobs, apply for 20 full time jobs a month and compete against everyone else in a variety of sectors, no cigar. One of my last holiday roles was at a pub and the amount of people that came in asking for work who'd basically just been fired from their admin roles was pretty significant; people are willing to do anything but the living wages are drying up. In my little suburb business owners livelihoods depend on people spending money, if no one has any they will fail. Choice doesn't correlate with situation.

        • tranter on 16/07/2017 - 11:47
          +1

          Lol, lifestyle is a choice is it? That statement says everything I need to know.

      • TheBilly on 15/07/2017 - 22:30
        +1

        Who cares, OP lives off free food vouchers, maybe long hours is necessary in whatever field it is, to earn more money and improve quality of life … if your struggling that much, I dont really think being picky is a luxury you should partake in

  • dcep on 15/07/2017 - 13:04
    +1

    remove negative/positive gearing.

    ohh wait, politicians are all in it.

  • SomeGuyOnOzB on 16/07/2017 - 11:28

    Most of those ideas listed in the OP, would ultimately come back to cost us.

    If you want something for pollies to really work on, how about getting that petrol price down?

    We've been paying record high rates, even when the price of petrol was at historical lows.

    If you can get the price of petrol down, transport costs come down.
    This can make it cheaper to move goods around which also can reduce some manufacturing costs; if these cost savings are passed on.
    More money in people's pockets, if people feel this is going to last, would let people feel it's safe enough and they can spend more.

    Stimulate the economy, potentially more jobs etc.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/07/2017 - 12:41
    +1

    Or more freight by rail to free up the traffic ,reduce pollution, or is that too greeny, left wing ,commie pinko?
    What about more rail lines to move people ,seeing as no-one seems to be able to afford to live near their work
    Or just wait on the gumbyment to do it cause business says you can't afford not to
    Or just build toll roads instead ,then sell em overseas an call it investment

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