Shared Sewer Line - Not on My Property. Who Pays?

ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 17:23
Last edited 10/07/2017 - 23:44

I am a property owner in NSW, and have a shared sewer line and boundary trap with a neighbour. There is a section of this sewer line which only my sewage flows, before connecting to the shared line. The sewer line under discussion is entirely on their property.
The neighbour has elected to take a quote for replacing the boundary trap and sewer pipe, accepted the quote, and begun work.
After work had begun, they contacted me and another neighbour to request that we share 3 ways in the costs.

My questions are as follows:

1) I have received advice that anything on the owner's land is their own legal property, and their responsibility. This includes that section of the sewer line coming from my property which is unshared.
Can anyone offer insight whether this statement is accurate?

2) Does the neighbour have the legal right to cut off my access to the sydney water mains sewer by capping my sewer pipe at their end, if we cannot reach an agreement which they are satisfied with?

3) Considering they have taken a quote and begun work without consulting any other parties, do they have any legal recourse to recoup these costs if a cost sharing arrangement cannot be reached?

Essentially, I wish to know my rights, and my legal responsibilities.

I have the intention to make a financial contribution, but need to know my rights and responsibilities in order to have an informed conversation about finances.

Edit: situation clarified through speaking to a trusted friend of the family who is a plumber, details in reply to altomic below.

Input from others with similar experience, plumbing or legal backgrounds is of course still very welcome, and received with thanks.

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Comments

  • whooah1979 on 10/07/2017 - 17:32
    +1

    My bet is when the crap start blocking up the pipes then you'll start to pay.

    • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 18:31
      +1

      I'm on the highground, no problem there!

  • nwa on 10/07/2017 - 17:47

    why is the neighbor doing work on the sewer? for what purpose?

    • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 18:31

      They needed their storm-water replaced, and I'm betting they were informed it would be cheaper to dig a little deeper and replace the sewer as well, rather than as 2 separate jobs.

      The sewer is 100 years old, so would have needed replacing at some point. Relining was also a (cheaper) option.

      • nwa on 10/07/2017 - 18:50

        In that case you don't need to pay anything.

        • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 23:42

          This may very well be the judgement of a court, but given the age of the pipes, they may rule that the expected lifetime of the products was up, and the commissioned plumber would likely submit a statement that the repairs were urgently required, even if this is bending the truth.

          Considering the cost would be delayed rather than avoided completely had the neighbour gained agreement between all parties before proceding, avoiding court is probably preferable to escalating the issue.

        • nwa on 12/07/2017 - 13:55

          @ozbjunkie: If something is shared and is broken and needs repair, you have to look at it first, so many questions need to be answered, was is in need of repair, was it broken and by whom or what. Another thing to consider, even it it required upgrade, why should you pay, its not on your property and you just tap into it. They can't just fix something and send you the bill, you are right to stand your ground but looks like your convincing yourself to pay up.

        • ozbjunkie on 13/07/2017 - 14:39

          @nwa:

          Yeah my thinking about what caused it to become broken, how urgent repairs were, how extensive necessary repairs were and the fact the neighbour has essentially destroyed evidence is making me more confident to see this one through… to court if need be.

  • djkelly69 on 10/07/2017 - 17:55

    Is the work being done to maintain/replace the existing pipes, etc, because they are not working properly? Or is it being relocated to allow for building work on the other owner's land?

    There is more than likely a registered easement over his property in favour of yours, which will set out the terms on which it was granted (including hopefully who pays for maintenance).

    Essentially, I wish to know my rights, and my legal responsibilities.

    Might suggest speaking with a lawyer who specialises in such things then. Or even council.

    • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 18:29

      No easement is listed on the title, however my understanding is that there would be a common-law easement due to 100 years of shared usage.

      • CacheHunter on 10/07/2017 - 19:32
        +1

        Have you checked your neighbour's title? The easement is more likely to be listed on their title than yours.
        Also, have you tried calling Sydney Water? I'd expect them to have a legal team that can advise, especially since they'd have to help you find another way of connecting to the sewer main if the neighbour blocked your connection.

        • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 23:40

          Talking to Sydney Water and Council tomorrow. Other legal responsibilities confirmed by family friend who is a plumber, outlined in reply to altomic below.

          There is no easement on their title. It would be a common-law easement as the properties were established pre-1918.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 18:03

    well if it on his property well you can justify that its his responsibility BUT then the ethical questions will rise being that you are in a shared circumstance.

    talk to sydney water and get some sort of guidance from them and maybe council but i dare say he should have at least consulted with other users to see IF they can and also get quotes in for the work.

    do some background work as to WHY he is doing this, if it was purely for cosmetic reasons in and around his property well my gut instinct says he should pay BUT if its for a genuine reason well then there is not much you can say as he dose have a problem.

    be civil and dont cause an issue, im sure if you dont pay he WILL have to keep you connected because that the way it is but it might not site well in the future.

    • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 18:33

      Talking to Sydney Water and Council tomorrow.

      Certainly would have preferred being consulted during the quotation process.

      I could always 'bargain' that the time and effort and costs of court are such that taking me to court wouldnt be profitable.

      But yeah, not trying to be a dick, even if I am entitled to be.

      Just want to know what I have to do, and what I am choosing to do.

  • garetz on 10/07/2017 - 18:20
    +1

    You need to seek professional legal advice asap.

    • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 18:32

      Yeah agreed, family legal advice is proving contradictory.

  • robbyjones on 10/07/2017 - 18:51

    Sounds like his decision to split the bill three ways is an afterthought. Interesting that the company doing the work didn't seek authorisation and agreement from all concerned parties prior to the work commencing, I know this is what happens with shared fences, at least n NSW. Check with your local council also, they may give some guidance.

    • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 18:54

      Yes will check with council.

      I also see a problem with their failing to seek authorisation before commencing work. Family legal advice has told me that this means that I am not involved in that contract, and the neighbour will be paying the plumber. However, a different source of family legal advice tells me that the owner can then recoup costs as a common-law easement comes with a responsibility to share costs for maintain the infrastructure.

  • Hellfire on 10/07/2017 - 18:57

    It's a shared resource so everyone using it has a responsibility for the sewer line maintenance. They are unfortunately very common in the older parts of Sydney, often under slabs and buildings. You'll need to pay something (assuming that it required fixing) but may not need to pay for a premium fix if it wasn't required.

    How much is your share?

    • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 19:02

      6.5K for the boundary trap, 6K of a 3 way shared line, and 3.3k for replacing a solo-line. All up approx 7.5k.
      That's not including the original site inspection fee.

      • Hellfire on 10/07/2017 - 19:23

        Ouch. That must have been a serious job. Hope you can get your costs down.

        • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 23:39

          Yes, it was a nasty surprise, but am confident the issue will be resolved by the split described in my reply to altomic below.

  • altomic on 10/07/2017 - 19:58

    they have elected to have the work done. they have entered into a contract at their own free will. you were not part of the contract.

    there was no essential need to have it done. it hadn't failed. you weren't being hampered by it's condition prior to the work being done.

    they haven't got a leg to stand on.

    they can't cut off your sewer access.

    • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 23:38

      Thanks for the information.

      This basically agrees with information I have recently obtained from a plumber who is a friend of the family.

      The issue is that since the boundary trap was seen to be in need of repair (even if its not urgent) it is probably best to simply pay up for what would have eventually been a cost, than to run the risk of a judgement against me in court.

      Nonetheless, the neighbour definitely went about things the wrong way by failing to consult other parties before accepting the quote. I understand I have no liability to the plumber directly, and will be paying the neighbour once she finalises the quote, conditional upon them providing me with a copy of a paid invoice, a certificate of compliance, and the updates sewer diagram detailing that sections have been replaced with PVC.

      Long story short, I am liable for my share split 3 ways of the boundary trap, and the 3 way shared pipe, pro-rata for sections which are shared between 2 of us, and 100% of the unshared portion of my pipes on the neighbours land.

  • ozbjunkie on 10/07/2017 - 23:37

    was meant as a reply, disregard

  • theguru1 on 11/07/2017 - 07:36
    +1

    Having recently gone through various plumbers for a sewerage issue there are great variances in what plumbers charge. One specialist plumbing company charged $385 flat fee whereas another quoted an open ended $1500+. Same company told me how they quoted $4500 to replace a section of sewer, which is what they would have charged the owner direct, but as they subcontracted to another plumbing company, the head company charged the owners $16K. All they did was the billing, not the work.

    Personally I would get other quotes and base your pro-rata reimbursement on the "reasonable cost" to do the repairs. This wasn't an urgent repair and the owners took it upon themselves to go ahead without permission. "Reasonable cost of repair is a common method of establishing reimbursement.

    • ozbjunkie on 12/07/2017 - 07:05

      The urgency of the repair will decide my contribution, and how much wrongdoing can be ascribed to the neighbour. Just reading though some cases on the caselaw website, it seems that the onus of proof will be on the neighbour to demonstrate the repairs were urgent, and that evidence must be submitted to me before any attempt at mediation.

  • furys12 on 11/07/2017 - 09:25
    -2

    no offence but you need to stop asking rando's on a forum,or family, or plumbers and get your ass to a lawyer immediately, i know first hand that shared fences must be paid for by all parties and it wouldn't shock me to find out things like pipes were similar, that said i highly doubt one party can go off and accept a contract and get work started and then demand payment, because fraud and whatnot, your problem of course is, the type of neighbour to do such a thing is also likely to be the type of neighbour who will cap the pipe and leave you stranded, even if you are uphill its not going to be great, at worst you need a lawyer to halt the work being done while your neighbour drags this out through court at best your lawyer writes a legal (profanity) off and neighbour accepts it

    • ozbjunkie on 13/07/2017 - 14:42

      No offence taken, yes I understand randoms aren't going to know it all, but more sources of information and experience the better.

      Can't cap.
      Have been reading case law.
      Will seek formal legal opinion before it goes to court, but won't be paying before then.

  • jhmtaylor on 11/07/2017 - 10:53
    +1

    We need more information but from what you have indicated, the sewer line is owned by Sydney Water and they have an easement over part of his land for the line. If correct, your neighbour is in serious trouble for interferring with the line. If Sydney Water do not have an easement then they have a big problem.

    • ozbjunkie on 12/07/2017 - 07:05

      There is no easement with Sydney Water.

      All lines leading to the sewer main within the property are the sole responsibility of the owner(s) and not Sydney Water.

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