I'm still 16 and got about 2k saved up and was thinking about my future so I stumbled upon some youtube videos claiming they made 1500% profit from investing in cryptocurrency primarly ethereum and bitcoin and I got excited. I'm just wonding if my small pool of money is even enough to invest in any coins and if it's worth the risk. I've got a 1070 rig rn maybe mine? I just want to jump on this craze before it's too late in the future and I have regrets but I need ozbargain expertise on these cryptocurencies. I heard they're value is very volatile but if we're talking about 1500% increases I'm all for it baby.
Info on Ethereum, Bitcoin Mining and Investing
chinanumberone on 13/06/2017 - 23:00
Comments
Not really. People are getting comparable hashrates on nVidia cards. They are less power hungry so the overall return is almost the same. Ive been running my 1070 for the last couple of days at stock and getting 25-26Mh/s. AMD cards can get 30ish with some overclocking.
1070 is like 600 while rx 580 is normaly 399 and does a better job.
I didnt mean nvidia cant do it just that they are not as good and not worth as much it to buy just to mine compaired to AMD.
I bought it as a gaming card so its not an issue for me. But yes, I wouldnt by any nvidia cards for a dedicated mining rig.
If you can actually find an rx580 that isn't on back order for a month ;)
You can get a 6gb 1060 now which will do 20-25mhs for 350-400.
If you bought a 470\480\570\580 or 8, right now you're absolutely laughing, but if you're getting on the bandwagon now we're in the weird situation where nvidia is pretty viable, and as Piranha said, they use less power so the lower running costs get you ahead faster :D
Check out the madman on tweaktown, it's legit.
agree - am running a 1070 and getting 25Mh/s
To OP - easiest way to get started 1) download a Jaxx desktop bitcoin wallet 2) download NiceHash miner (this will auto mine for you - i.e. auto select the pools and coins to mine - look for youtube videos) 3) add in Jaxx Address to Nice Hash - With a 1070 Mining will get you about USD $5 per day in Bitcoin - paid weekly. In Jaxx you can swap those coins for other "major coins".
You will be up and running in 30mins - very easy way to learn without spending $$
Oh and download MSI afterburner to monitor your GPU temperature (try and keep under 70 degrees by adjusting fan speed mapping)
5 dollars a day? and you need to leave this running for how long to earn 5 a day? did you count the price of electricity?
I'm not in a situation where I can afford to replace my gpu as its one of my most loved asset and I dont want it to degrade or have loud noises in my room from what I've researched so I decided not to mine. Also, if people decided that bitcoin mining is inefficient right now why are people rushing to buy rx 480s/580s to mine ethereum
@blasterbot999: Plenty of other coins to mine, not ETH or BTC. There are websites that calculate what the optimal profit earned from mining is from each coin. Because of the volatility the optimum coin can change day-to-day.
@striker5950: so here is my calc - last 24 hours mining got USD$6.50 = AUD $8.65. GPU power consumption is 140 watts @ 100% (GPU not always at 100%) - CPU is another 50W. Even at 200 watts total ($0.26 per kWh) power is about $1.26 per day.
Think this is right - Never really done the calc properly as I have solar from "back in the day"
@striker5950: not sure I understand your comment as all I do is leave the computer running - but each to their own.
For me I like the fact that I withdraw enough actual $ each week to cover my petrol costs and have BTC left over to play with as a speculative investment (Come-on XDN!!!!!).
I mean if there was an OB deal for "Free $5 of petrol per day every day (until the bitcoin price crashes to zero)" it would probably be the most up voted bargain ever
But as I said each to their own - I have low power costs and bought my GPU for gaming (so no real initial investment) so right now its free money for doing nothing
@BillyBobb: Makes sense, gotta account for it taking ~3 months to pay back your initial GPU purchase, but I guess you can also game/do video editting on it.
I'd love to know about how mining effects the GPU and how long one would be expected to last doing these calculations every day.
@BillyBobb: what im saying is getting a day job is more sufficient and pays better.
1070 gpu, lets say ur figure of electric usage is right (i doubt) and u make 8.65 a day, thats 60 bucks a week,240 a month. will take you 2 and half month to cover the cost of the gpu, now u might say i also use the gpu for gaming, but the wear and tear of the minning is higher that the amount of gaming u do on it so the gpu is prone to stop working way sooner that the average lifespan. also the other parts of the pc that make this possible like the cpu ram psu and motherboard which are constantly working, you have to take int account the much faster wear and tear of those items as well.https://etherscan.io/chart/difficulty
Sum of the hardware currently mining, it's been doubling month on month. Somehow I don't see this ending well for people throwing sums of money at a non-productive asset. But hey, if you can minimize the risk with existing hardware, might as well make hay while the sun shines
@striker5950: The GPUs come with a 3 year warranty. If it breaks due to the mining, you can get a replacement.
Note: I was mining on an R9 280x for 9 months with no issues.Whatever the answer is, it's been getting Harder & Harder to earn $$,
so you might want to research longer & harder, before investing in any
of the Costly bits of the so-called "Bitcoin mining" process.At the start of the Gold Rush, it was easier to find valuable nuggets.
Later, it took more serious mining techniques to extract value.
Eventually, a mine is too costly to operate profitably.
1500% increase means most the gains have been made, not only would you be getting in at or near the top of the market, but when it drops you potentially have huge losses.
Look at the price graph for the last 12 months, its volitility is plain, its a huge risk, so be prepared to lose most your money if not all of it to potentially double or triple it.
Bitcoin has been around for a long time now and the biggest gains have been made in the last year. I think it has proved that it has longevity.
Ethereum has commercial backing which is why there are so many gains recently.
Ethereum has on a macro level, only gone up.Both of those currencies are very legitimate investments; Blasterbot is wise to ask about them.
@blasterbot999
At your age, be prepared to make and lose money, and dont be afraid of losing some. But DO keep an eye on things to sell at the right timeyes biggest gains came recently, after their biggest losses as well,… in which people created more demand by getting into it, it will fall again so you really wona burn you cash?
and the biggest gains have been made in the last year.
No, BTC has quite a way to go to meet the same type of gains the 2013 bubble had. https://www.tradingview.com/x/hMZI4SmL/
That's not really true, Crypto return can be crazy, 1500% is not even that much.
Back in July 2015 at the start of Ethereum crowdsale, the price was 2000/btc.
Back then BTC was about US$350. 1Eth = US$0.175.
Recently 1Eth hit US$400
Return over 2 years = 2,285x or 228,500%Having said that, some of the lessons I have learned are:
1. Never invest money which you can't afford to lose, most people say its the moon or 0.
2. If you invest, ensure everything is kept securely, people lose money all the time by losing their wallet key, exchange bust, scams and viruses.
3. Be aware of the boom and bust period, boom would be when everyone is talking about it, buying and start mining, everything associated with crypto is sold out. Bust is when everything becomes unprofitable to mine. If you start mining during boom, most likely you will not be able to recover your initial costs. In the end the best strategy for me was to buy during the bust period with fiat (cash).
4. Crypto could be broken and become instantly worthless for example if the encryption is broken, e.g. Quantum computer or the code had errors in it e.g. DAO.
5. Many people may not know this, but conspiracy theory is that the crypto goal is to replace the current fiat system, it may sound far fetched until you start reading some of the articles. Therefore treating crypto as investment is only part of the whole picture.
6. Finally you must be in it for the long run, if you sell after making a bit of profit, you will never make the profit I described above. You will be tempted to sell a long long time ago.
It doesn't seem to be falling yet at the moment but always know that it always will it's just a matter of time.
If I bought when I just found out for ethereum at around $150-180 about a month ago I would have made double profit by now haha lol. Damn
Buy low sell high. Good luck man. As for mining I have no clue man sorry check out maybe their respective subreddits and look for more experienced expert information but from what I know mining is really risky and also really stagnating but to each their own. Good luck man.
I'm a bit hesitant to mine from youtube comments but investing seems interesting, who doesnt love $$$ but I'm scared all the hours I slaved at maccas will be gone
Then don't do it man. Never gamble what you aren't willing to lose. Only gamble what you are ready to throw away and if that answer is zero you should never gamble.
Absolutely cryptocurrencies are very risky, and ethereum "may" only increase by a few more times.
Yea I spent a few hundred on bitcoin for the fun of it…..about 2 years ago. Quite with myself now.
I wouldn't invest your money in it.
But If you already have a graphics card and Mum is paying the electricity then mine the shit out ETH.
I'd also sell half of whatever you mine every month. Take Profit a long the way prices will go up and down like crazy but if you sell out a little every month and leave some in the bank for later.
Friends with similar cards are making about $300 - 600 a month selling ETH thats not including electricity expenses which hopefully mum will pay.
I'm guessing returns will drop significantly in the future but if your working at Maccas why wouldnt you pick up a couple of hundred dollars a month while you can?
Mum wouldn't pay the electricity bill plus I need to use my pc too not leave it for 24/7
@blasterbot999:
For crypto-mining you need a lot of electricity and processing power.
You can try using your CPU for processing, but will soon realise that even the most powerful CPU's (eg R7 1700 or i7-6900k) will pale in comparison to a low-mid range GPU (eg HD7970 or GTX 680).That's why all mining wares target your GPU, and in-general, you're better off with a Full ATX Tower and SLI.
A 16th-generation (Pascal) or 10th-generation (Polaris) GPU for the 16nm efficiency.
Mining with a $550 dual RX 470's (4GB) should yield great returns… better than a single $500 GTX 1070 or 1080Ti=$1,000.
But if you step up to $800 dual-RX 580 (8GB)* you should be able to increase your processing performance (income $) without increasing your power bill (expenses) as much.Although, I would consider the depreciation of the cards into consideration as well.
You won't get back nearly as much by going with the GTX 1060 (6GB), but this card is poised to keep its value much longer than its 3GB counterpart, not to mention any of AMD's Polaris offerings. You could potentially keep one for gaming and sell the other, and not lose as much $$ as you thought.But remember, these are just hobbies that can pay off… its not really an investment to stick to as the market is volatile.
As soon as one of the cryptocurrencies gets too big, some of the big players sell their share, the value plummets, the market responds and people disperse looking to cash-in on the next cryptocurrency. There are those that make Thousands in the market, but there are thousands that lose a couple gold coins too.*The RX 570 is basically a Underclocked RX 480, and the RX 580 is basically an Overclocked RX 480.
With any and all investments you need to drill in the following: "Past performance is not indicative of future returns."
If it were as simple as investing in crypto for guaranteed or likely 1500% return then literally everyone would do it. Similarly, mining is extremely complex and requires other resources.
Never take specific investing advice from internet forums. Research. A lot. Spend as much time researching your investments as you spent earning the initial capital.
Lastly, the more confident you feel about a particular investment, the more you should be skeptical of it. I'm not saying there aren't cryptocurrencies that will rise 1000% in the next 3 years, I'm saying that you need to work it out for yourself and not let people with something to gain tell you it.
Good advice :)
Mining ethereum is over its just not profitable enough.
For ethereum buying is the way now and hold on too it, on coinspot ethereum is currently at $548 and it "may" go over $1000 by the end of the year.Remember cryptocurrencies are very volatile.
Besides ethereum, I have bought $10AUD in each of the following currency's:
NEM
Golem
Stellar
Steem
Siacoin
Bytecoin
DigiByteThanks for the info on other currencies ill look into them
You replied to my comment while I was editing it :( haha.
Anyways ethereum may reach somewhere around bitcoin, the 1500% is over.
Those other currency's I haven't really put toooo much research in to them.
blasterbot999 if you had 50 thousand and decided that you'd spare 2K for a highly speculative investment where you could potentially lose the lot I would say go ahead. But as you worked hard in a fairly low paid job for your $2000 savings and presumably would be devastated to lose it I would say steer well clear of cryptocurrency "investment".
Just as there are a bunch of currencies like Golem and Stellar which you could tell yourself are just the same as Bitcoin or Ethereum before they took off, I could show you a hundred cheap mining stocks on the exchange that all could be sold to you as the next Rio or BHP.
They are known as "penny dreadfuls" and most of them lose their backers money. Most cryptocurrencies will prove to be the same - baseless speculation. You would be poorly advised to invest in these currencies at all. You'd have more fun and quite likely the same result at Randwick Racecourse or Crown Casino.
Why not buy maybe three well researched shares instead?
@foxinsox8: Good advice.
Penny stocks absolutely stay away from them, I have never bought them and never will.
Small caps are by far a smarter investment choice than Crypto, as there's something tangible behind it and whilst the majority of price fluctuations are speculative there is a business.
That said, plenty of research needs to go into them. Personally I've made a sound profit on small caps by focusing on sectors I know best (i.e. staying away from mining). But suggesting OP stays away from them isn't such sound advice, especialy when they've said they want to invest in Crypto.
In their situation, however, I suggest buying a single 200 listed company that they've put the research into (and that pays a dividend). Whilst the reward may not be as much, in their situation they don't want risk.
@blighst: "But suggesting OP stays away from them [small cap companies] isn't such sound advice"
I disagree… the risk in small caps remains significant when considering the OP's situation.
And you yourself seem to agree when you then go on to recommend a single 200 listed stock (Almost identical to my advice).
I'd suggest buying into a dividend bearing stock won't light the OP's candle at all - he/she seems to want significant capital gain. A compromise is a moderately speculative but safeish stock on the ASX (and forget about divs).
@foxinsox8: What I'm meaning is bagging small caps then suggesting Crypto is one of the most stupid things I've heard.
I agree that there's strong risk associated but there's no such thing as significant capital gain without risk. Top performers on the ASX 200 see decent capital gain and dividend - I suggest OP puts research and tries to find these ones.
@blighst: uh where did I do that "Most cryptocurrencies will prove to be the same - baseless speculation"
@foxinsox8: Apologies, I may have muddled your comment with a different one.
Upon rereading your comment we're on the same page
What exchange you use to buy all these, Can you buy all these with AUD?
I use coinspot, yes you can use Australian dollars :)
I am on the DigiByte dev team. Thanks for the mention!
Hope DigiByte goes well $-)
"Mining ethereum is over its just not profitable enough"
We are at a distinct disadvantage in Australia, because energy costs make up he bulk of mining costs over the long term. Some people in the USA and China are paying US$0.05/kWh, while we're saddled with US$0.25/kWh and rapidly rising. Solar power is a partial answer, but miners need to work 24/7 to recover their costs asap.
Still, RX480/580 cards are sold out across the country, so someone is still interested.
Cards are getting bought out here and being shipped overseas for a nice profit :)
I checked several online stores in the USA and they're all out of stock too, or trying to sell the cards for almost double the usual price. There's a worldwide shortage at the moment.
AMD of course knows what's going on, and there are reports of them preparing special stripped down cards suitable for mining. There's a new motherboard coming that's specifically targeted too.
https://hothardware.com/news/nvidia-amd-and-motherboars-opti…
AMD was burned a few years ago when miners bought cards, used them 24/7, and sold them later still within the warranty period. Failure rate for these cards was obviously higher than ones used for their intended purpose.
@Cluster:
nVidia are releasing a n1060 for mining only. But will only be supplied to China/Korea/Russia.Hopefully AMD do something and not restrict sales.
Who's your broker / trading platform? Any advice?
Coinspot is my trading platform.
Buy and hold on to it.
If you see prices skyrocket like on Monday prices went up by about $150 for ethereum on coinspot, do not panic and quickly buy more, it was just like a bubble and prices have gone back down now to about where they where.
How would I go about buying these coins is there a specific website or trading program? If ethereum falls back to 200 ill try my luck with a couple shares
Coinspot is the most simplest, thought they don't tell you there fees just that 'three fees are included in the price', thought the fees seem pretty good.
There's poloniex witch has a buy and sell fee of $0.25?, there's also another one but I forgot it's name it's a pc application you can buy and sell directly with others, as I use a smartphone I can't use it :(.
Thanks mate but if the website goes down where will your stocks be stored will it simply be lost or is there like a government guarantee that it will be safe even in a few years?
Not sure but I'm going for lost, I'm definitely certain there is no government guaranty.
Only gamble what you are willing to lose.
Good luck :)
Same to u brother
Government guarantee??? There are far far safer modes of investment in this country that have no government guarantee.
Understand these cryptocurrencies operate in an unregulated environment with NO investor protections. They could all go the way of MT Gox overnight. (you do know about Mt Gox right?)
Most of the growth in valuation at the moment is the formation of a speculative bubble.
If you don't know what that is look up the Dutch Tulip Craze. www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutch_tulip_bulb_market_bubble.…Ask yourself what it is about these currencies that justifies their current valuation. I do believe that cryptocurrencies will earn their place in fintech markets over time esp when consumers start blockchaining in their daily lives (eg selling excess electricity)
For now though they are as risky as you can get and the potential to lose everything you've worked to save is very real (and some would say likely)
The very fundamental concept of crypto currency is lost here. It is supposed to be based on blockchain which uses private and public keys. So essentially we can store the "money" offsite as long as you have the private key with you.
It all started/inspired to challenge government fiat currency and theft by inflation. So I do not expect any government to support or legitimise it as a valid trading currency.
Each of those by and large "crypto currencies" is supposed to have improved upon some deficiency or factor on the previous cryptocurrency. E.g ethereum is turing complete while bitcoin is not and bitcoin takes longer to verify transactions than ethereum and so on..I personally think crypto currency is a great concept but powers dujour won't like it for obvious reasons and try their best to obfuscate it's power and validity.
As an investment vehicle, it is pretty hollow. It's as good as it's believers have faith in it. Just like any other currency.
With any digital currency if you don't own the private key you don't truly own your coins!. Never keep them on an exchange longer than is necessary
The only properly safe way to store your crypto currency is in your own wallet, retaining control of your own private keys. No-one can get at your currency unless they have these keys. Therefore your currency is as safe as they are. I.e. as safe as your PC or the notepad you keep it written down on. Keeping it all on the exchange makes it easier to trade, but also more prone to being lost through hacking etc.
Yes % haha I need more sleep :)
btcmarkets for Australian exchange
Unfortunately son, you've got yourself all caught up on supposedly making easy gains…crazy gains at that.
It's up to you at the end of the day.
An australian banking exec put some play money into it in 2010, he's made multi millions now. The philosophy was 'money I can afford to lose, and Bitcoin will either end up being worthless or worth a Shipload'.
This is also encouraging short term investment, which isn't a good approach.
Put money into the productive economy, would be my advice. Not this.
I acknowledge ur advice sir and im just being a small player right now just trying to learn the ropes of this new market to gain some experience. Could you elaborate how i would invest in a productive economy?
Boring old grandpa whole market index funds.
Will look into that cheers but it's probably something i will do down the line right now life is too short for boring :) worst investment was getting a 1070 pc just to play league
@blasterbot999: The earlier you put savings into an index fund the more extreme the gains from compounding become later on in life.
The only type of index fund you should be in is one where the investors own the fund so there is no incentive to profit from you by levying management fees.
Thanks for the reply could u give me some names of index funds
@blasterbot999: just google market index fund/s. Really just comes down to annual fee as a percentage, and to a lesser degree buy/sell fees.
VAS (Australian shares)
VGS (Rest of world)These can be bought/sold at any online stock broker (CMC, CommSec, NAB, whatever).
You'll want to save up a bit more money first though.
@abb:
If you use a platform like NAB and purchase stocks, is/how is ownership transferred to you? or are they held by the bank?
@StevenUniverse: They're held in your name.
Here's all the overwhelming detail - http://www.asx.com.au/documents/research/chess_brochure.pdf
@abb:
Thanks abb, just another quick question sorry.
So if the bank were to close, then I would still hold ownership of these stocks, correct?
@StevenUniverse: Yes. The broker is only allowed to buy/sell on your behalf according to your specific instructions.
@zerokas:
Not true, only Vanguard USA operates as a non for profit.However it is still the cheapest ETF in Australia
@StevenUniverse:
The fees charged when you buy an ETF (through NAB or Commsec etc) are usually lower than the fees Vanguard charge for a fund directly with them, however Vanguard will not charge a brokerage fee when you buy or sell, and you can add small amounts any time (minimum 5k)If you want to add a few hundred each month you would be better off going directly with Vanguard, until your balance is very large, if you buy an ETF it is better to purchase large blocks, say 5-10k at a time.
I looked into buying $100 worth when the price was $0.12. I'm not sure if there was an exchange at that time or if you to mine it, but I didn't have the hardware to mine and couldn't get it exchanged so I gave up. Work it out now and it brings a tear to the eye.
What's the deal with tax on profit? Still subject to capital gains?
Good old australia still behind the US 15% tax, wish i stayed back in vietnam. Jokes australia is a great country dont know what id do without ozbargain love u guys
Why don't you get dual citizenship and hold your assets in your overseas identity?
Yep, subject to captial gains tax (for investment purposes)
Its not capital gains if it's a "hobby"
Source?
My understanding is that it's not subject to CGT if it's bought and used for personal transactions.
It is subject to CGT if bought for investment purposes by an individual.
No mention of hobbies… Unless you're mining I guess?Wow, semantics man. Personal use / hobby whatever. As long as its not carrying on "an enterprise". Someone setting up a spare PC to mine BTC or buy some will not be subject to CGT. OP only has 2k remember.
You seem committed already, don't put all your eggs in 1 basket as they say. Try with $500 first, and that's with cashing out too, see if you ahead or not.
Is it just me or most cryptocurrencies run like a pump and dump schemes?
It seems it's the case with low cap currencies but you can also use it to ur advantage from what I've found. Many youtubers stock up on the low cap currencies and wait for them to be pumped which equals free profit :D
Pointless to start mining now. Your power bill will offset whatever you think you'll make.
I just want to jump on this craze before it's too late in the future
It's already too late. If you got in on the ground floor, maybe. But all the low-hanging fruit have been picked years ago.
no way. The bitcoin would more than pay for the power.
I was mining back when it was worth $1k and then it only just paid off the power. Its worth triple now.
If you can run a rig at work, put it in the back office haha.
The mining landscape has changed though. Now you're competing with ridiculously high hashpower Chinese syndicates that are responsible for the vast majority of all mining.
Your power bill will offset whatever you think you'll make
Not if Mum and Dad are paying the power bill!
I think OP was hoping for a quick and easy 1500% increase on his money which is near impossible now that the market has effectively plateaued.
The technology these cryptocurrencies use could quite possibly be the future for banking.
Virtually instant transfer to other accounts with extremely low transfer fees.I have made 20% on my initial investment.
If I keep doing what I have been doing then I will probably make more.
It's easy to lose money but it's easy to make it as well.
This talk about cryptocurrencies becoming worth nothing is false.When people started buying bitcoins for $10, how many people do you think thought what the hell is that? Nobody is going to invest in that.
Now it's worth nearly $4k audHirolol that is a very high risk environment o operate in to secure only a 20% return.
Plenty of people have done their money along the way too with bitcoin (think Mt Gox) and others. It's always easy with hindsight to prove a case like this.
And bitcoin is at least backed by the proof of work (though what an environmental disaster that is) . But what do you know about the fundamentals that support the valuations of any of these other so called "currencies"?I agree that the systems behind many of these cryptocurrencies will form a big part of our financial and banking future. Blockchaining will be huge in 5 years time.
That doesn't mean these cryptocurrencies will succeed or even survive.
Here we have a 16 yo potential investor who thought investment in cryptocurrencies might be Government Guaranteed. The only advice is to hold onto your money until you know how things work: stocks, shares, funds, bonds and cryptocurrencies. Don't get sold the false promise of fast money only to lose your hard earned to some fintech sharks who have a lot less to lose than yourself.
Have you done any crypto trading?
Doesn't really sound like it tbh.I've only been doing it for 5 months so I am in no way an expert.
I was initially up about 40% but after a few bad decisions and bad advice from a mate I ended up being down with about 40% of my initial investment.So 20% after losing nearly everything, within 5 months is not too bad.
Still better than bank rates.I dont know too much about the technology.
I know most other currencies are based on ethereum technology so that's why ethereum is so hyped.For now I will keep doing it coz that's where money is to be made.
Hirolol,
You've literally just proven how risky the market is by the fact of high volatile your investment has been.
I started mining when bitcoins were worth $7, and even then it was a hard game. Don't market the extreme risk to people masked as an easy 20% ROI. Its not worth the risk, especially now.
You would need an amd card like an RX 480/rx 580 to mine.
That's why they are sold out everywhere.