NBN - Battery Backup Unit for NTD - yes or no?

SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 12:48

Hi all,

Just wondering if it's worth getting the battery backup unit (BBU) for one's FTTP NBN connection.

It's free of charge currently - am getting Skymesh NBN finally after using my mobile/dongle etc for internet in our new house over this year. Receptions gotten worse so NBN time finally (That and I wasn't aware skymesh style affordable options existed for NBN).

I currently have the NTD in my garage back wall connected directly to power. I was worried that by taking up the free BBU i lose the power point option - as the BBU then takes over as the connection point for the NTD doesn't it? So if the BBU battery runs out/dies then i assume the NTD then can't plug directly through to power and you can get away with not replacing the BBU?

How hard and expensive is it to replace the BBU yourself? Is it worth the hassle, or just stick to having the NTD directly to power without a BBU installed?

Need to know/decide today as Skymesh will send out guys to install if so. Would anyone know also if it is secured into the wall quite shallow - the NTD box was drilled through our single brick wall out the other side (huge hole in plaster that builder patched). Given we now live there any hole out the other side would be at our own inconvenience in fixing.

Internet

Comments

  • geech on 08/05/2017 - 13:05

    I didn't bother with it in either of my NBN installs. The reality is, I don't have any kind of landline phone - and I wasn't going to be protecting my router with any kind of UPS - so having the NTD online during a power outage was entirely pointless for me.

    • SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 13:33

      But even without an UPS I thought the battery backup would kick in instantly so the NTD would stay connected? So the only downside would be your router would then need to find power somehow, or you could plug your computer /router directly into the NTD (then again your router would still need a power source, but the computer option may still work)?

      • geech on 08/05/2017 - 13:37

        Yes, the NTD would stay connected - but as you said, your router wouldn't. So you'd either need to have some kind of backup power source for your router - or directly connect your battery powered computer (Laptop) to the NTD.

        Personally, I found that to be a small enough benefit in such a circumstance that I'd just live without the internet.

        • SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 13:38
          +1

          Yeah true, but the BBU is free to install, so for the minor likeliness you'd plug your laptop in for an urgent internet direct from the NTD - was there a reason you didn't bother? ONe less physical thing to stick on the wall or worry about replacing?

        • geech on 08/05/2017 - 13:40

          @SaberX:

          Yeah exactly - one less box on the wall for very little benefit to me.

        • SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 14:56

          @geech:

          yeah.. I won't be using any garage wall space and I doubt anyone would either.. vs free installation and 'there if you need it'.

          argh. torn.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2017 - 13:07
    -1

    I thought it's a battery backup so when ur power is out the battery takes over. my nbn is connected to the power point and I told the guy to keep the battery as it was another hole in the wall plus if I recall right I think he said needed to be replaced every couple yrs too at my cost.

    • SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 13:37

      That's what I thought too. The iinet website has a diagram which shows the setup. Currently the NBN NTD connects direct to power point. My understanding is by installing the BBU the NTD will now connect to the BBU which in turn has a power cord to the powerpoint. So my worry is this sets up your NTD for relying on the BBU (When power is available) - so that if the battery dies your stuck with replacing it or a non functioning NTD as I don't think you can just pull out the wire connection to the BBU and continue with the powerpoint direct to NTD?

      If the NTD can continue to be used via the BBU when the battery is flat that would be perfect/fine. At least having the installation done for free now would work - then one can change the BBU battery whenever (if) they want.

      • geech on 08/05/2017 - 13:39

        Don't quote me (as I don't have a BBU) - but if it's anything like a regular UPS, it should still pass power to the NTD if the battery is dead. Assuming it's just the battery having reached the end of it's service life, and not something else malfunctioning with the BBU.

        Might be different for the BBU though

        • SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 17:36

          Hmm true. I'll haveto find out. I don't mind it 'free' if you can run the NTD with a flat battery in the BBU. If not, then it becomes an inconvenience replacing it always - as supposedly the quality/life isn't long? Per the internet?

        • RockyRaccoon on 09/05/2017 - 05:35

          @SaberX: The uinit beeps if the battery backup dies, this can be turned off for a hour or so, or you contact the ISP and they can turn it off. But batteries vis ebay are cheap $30.

          They are supposed to last for at least 3 years, mine died after 2 years, but I think -according tp others on whirlpool - the battery was old when installed by NBN, which makes sense given the delays in getting things up and running by NBN

          1. You can also get a UPS, for your voip and router separately. This means you save using power from the UPS to run the NBN. Extending the length of time .

          2. You can also use the NBN directly via ethernet, skipping the router, so if you have a notebook and ethernet cable it can still work although you have to be tethered with the cable to the unit. Better than nothing.

  • tebbybabes on 08/05/2017 - 13:38

    I didn't get the BBU either. It was just going to be another thing up on the wall. The BBU is really just to keep the phone lines working for a while during a power outage.

    Since I wasn't planning to connect any sort of phone lines to the NTD, it was a moot point for me.

    • SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 14:56

      Well is VoIP even a 'phone line' per se? I thought with NTD's and NBN now there is no physical phone line, just a virtual phone line via the internet? Probably half the reason why people don't understand NBN.

      I agree - it's another thing on the wall, but i'm torn: free to install, supposedly still runs through AC power if battery dies (so you don't technically have to replace battery and output money). Does mean though that you can't just up and take out your NTD as it has it's own power plug, and just walk it to somewhere else technically (although the cable to the PCD would have to be intact obviously)

      • geech on 08/05/2017 - 15:07

        It's a fibre cable connection between the PCD and NTD, so it's not really feasible to move it around anyway.

        The NTD contains a UNI-V port (Two in fact) for "legacy" phone services (medical devices and the like). Not all providers offer a service via the UNI-V port though…

        http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco2/documents/voice-o…

        • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2017 - 17:45

          Interesting fact, my estate has no copper. The only infrastructure is Opticomm and while the ports are certainly there none of the available ISPs/RSPs (or Telcos) provide a UNI-V service. None. I didn't think it was possible to have no POTS service whatsoever, but apparently it is.

          I'm not complaining about having fibre and it doesn't impact me directly, I will always use VoIP anyway, I'm just surprised there is no applicable service guarantee preventing this scenario.

        • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 19:13

          Do you know if the BBU technically supplies power to the UNI-V port only? It seems old posts state it only powers the UNI-V i.e. for calls. And not the data outlet, therefore you couldn't use data anyway even if you wanted to by connecting to the NTD via data cable? Has this since changed?

          Given we're in a new estate where FTTP is the new thing, this means there is no 'legacy' phone services doesn't it? Since copper phone lines don't exist don't they?? So we would never use the UNI-V? I was just confused as some say some alarm systems or devices will use this, others say medical devices are useless even if the NTD stays powered/backed up.

        • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 19:14

          @LoopyLou:

          So is VoIP essentially a 'digital' phone line over your fibre cables? Whereas the old PTSN for alarms and all work with physical copper phone lines? That's where I get confused…

        • [Deactivated] on 09/05/2017 - 19:55

          @SaberX:

          You're correct.

          Think of it this way:

          Previously you had a phone line as a starting point. Then you added ADSL over the top.

          Now it's the opposite, you start with a data service and then run phone calls on that.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/05/2017 - 19:58

          @SaberX:

          I know in my case the backup powers all ports. Would be surprised if your setup were different.

          Note you could also get a battery backup system (UPS) for your router and/or VoIP gear, then you have real back up.

          My router happens to use 12v so I just run it off the supplied UPS.

        • SaberX on 10/05/2017 - 15:38

          @LoopyLou:

          Thanks Loopy. I thought about that 'potential' to have an UPS for router - so by installing the BBU now it is just a 'failsafe' potential. albeit it will only give you 3 hours at max - if battery is 100% life condition. Still umming and arr'ing if this is worth the maintenance hassle of every few years a new battery. I know $35-40 isn't life threatening… but versus the amount of times one will be using the 3 hours backup I can't help but wonder.

      • macrocephalic on 08/05/2017 - 15:25

        Define 'phone line'. All calls now are voip afaik. They might be PSTN from you to the nearest exchange, but I'm pretty sure they get turned into packets from there. With the NBN, the call will be packetized at your house; you still have a physical line, but it's a digital line rather than an analogue one.

  • nocure on 08/05/2017 - 15:48
    +1

    It's free of charge currently…

    I didn't read any further.

    • SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 17:35
      +1

      Free is good.. but not if it means issues replacing/paying for replacement batteries often down the track…. especially if I'm not really going to use the function (as someone said above the router would be powered off anyway if powers cut).

  • fruit on 08/05/2017 - 16:48
    -1

    Yes

    • SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 17:34

      As in take the BBU?

  • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2017 - 16:54

    Considering I went out and paid $45 for a battery that was not supplied, please take it free!

    You might be lucky and find that your gateway is 12 volts :)

    • SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 17:34

      haha, it is free to install, but I thought everyone gets it free? My main worry was it became more of a pain replacing the battery out of obligation. But if you can run it with a flat battery installed then all good. might as well take it free. Not like I'd use the wall space there anyway

    • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 18:34

      Hey mate, can you confirm if the BBU allows you to run your laptop or computer direct into the NTD? Old posts on the battery backup unit mention it only powers the UNV port - for phones. Which if so I won't bother. Has it supposedly changed now so that your whole NTD stays active? In other words data is directly available, just your router will be off and unable to access this (so you'll haveto plug in direct)?

      Also what is the 12volts thing?? The NTD is currently directly powered to the power point. Will they reconfigure with a more power hungry gateway?

      p.s. the $45 battery is free, but replacements are 'on the consumer' -w hich it seems are circa $35 every few years to replace.

      • [Deactivated] on 09/05/2017 - 20:00

        Yes you can run a PC straight off the NTD.

        Not sure about NBN but with mine all ports are powered. The NTD doesn't even realise it's on backup power.

        My BBU supplies 12v to the NTD. My router is also 12v so I hooked it in.

        • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 20:13

          Does the BBU connect to the NTD wiring wise, but you can plug in another thing - i.e. router? It has additional connections available?

  • yk300 on 08/05/2017 - 18:38

    Similar situation to you. Opted not to go with the battery.
    If power goes out, not a big deal. I can survive without internet. Looking back 10 years, the only power outage I remember lasted about 30 mins.

    • SaberX on 08/05/2017 - 19:27

      I agree. But why specifically for the no (for battery - I assume yours was free?) Did you share similar concerns the BBU would have to be maintained and spare batteries purchased?

      • yk300 on 08/05/2017 - 20:26

        Yes, yet another thing to keep in mind. Cant remember if that BBU can power the router as well. Probably not.
        Bottom line is I don't see a use case for it.

        Many would argue the case for VoIP and critical devices, such as medical. I'd rather not have any critical device connected to the Internet and if my VoIP phone goes down, I am always reachable on my mobile. You can always get 3G/4G on your mobile.

        It only makes sense if you can power an entire system, not just a modem. Maybe running some critical servers of some sort.

        • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 12:28

          well 3g/4g reception in my house is bad which is why I finally decided to get NBN rather than just using my mobile (which I have this whole year). But I agree - my worry is your NTD is powered but how likely am I going to need to connect up a medical device (I'm young, no issues or devices currently). Most importantly the router has no power backup so again - the only backup one would have is direct connection by Ethernet from laptop to NTD (don't some ISPs not support this)?

          WIth alarms I've been warned against VoIP or NBN wireless internet based alarms. Basically a few suggest it may be a 'channel' but shouldn't be a form of reliance. One power cut (intentionally or by nature) and there goes your form of communication.

          GPRS (Isn't this hell old school mobile internet/shutting down??) or GSM /3g/4g sim was the recommended installation.

          So yeah.. left with deciding between a 'freebie' vs it seems potential impracticality if it goes down anyway and the fact that you then need to replace the battery. It may also drain power from what people are saying compared to the NTD at a larger rate - so ongoing running costs.

        • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 18:33

          Hey mate, can you confirm if the BBU allows you to run your laptop or computer direct into the NTD? Old posts on the battery backup unit mention it only powers the UNV port - for phones. Which if so I won't bother. Has it supposedly changed now so that your whole NTD stays active? In other words data is directly available, just your router will be off and unable to access this (so you'll haveto plug in direct)?

  • lainey13 on 08/05/2017 - 20:23

    Not worth it. House came with one and then started making these annoying beeps when the battery died. Which aren't that easy or cheap to replace. Thankfully pulling the dead one out stopped the noises and NBN still works. Worthless I reckon. In a power outage you're going to use your mobile anyway.
    Note: I have no landline.

    • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 12:30

      did you try replacing it yourself as other posters suggested? So I guess if you're going to pull the dead one out you might as well not have it haha. How much did you pay to replace your battery?

    • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 18:33

      Hey mate, can you confirm if the BBU allows you to run your laptop or computer direct into the NTD? Old posts on the battery backup unit mention it only powers the UNV port - for phones. Which if so I won't bother. Has it supposedly changed now so that your whole NTD stays active? In other words data is directly available, just your router will be off and unable to access this (so you'll haveto plug in direct)?

  • skillet on 09/05/2017 - 09:50

    What is the vampire drain wattage on the BBU? You might want reconsider running cost of your 'free' unit.

    • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 12:31

      Good point? Maybe someone else who has done the maths can comment on running cost of NTD on its own vs using the BBU? A quick google the other day pulled up mention of some pretty high drain? Running cost and having to replace the battery often for an once off 4 hours that it can stay powered - may not be worth it. If it powered for 40 hours or something like backup batteries on alarms….

  • BobD on 09/05/2017 - 11:26

    I had a battery when installed. Sometime later the missus said to me what's the red light. It turned out that the battery was flat but I never had any problem. I took the old battery out and didn't replace it. The only downside is there is a periodic alarm which needs to be silenced and you live with a red light. Read the manual on how to do that. It's fairly simple.

    • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 13:26

      I thought the alarm gets silenced the moment you remove the flat battery and leave it empty?

      Do you find the power consumption sucked out of the BBU to be quite a drain compared to running the NTD?

    • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 18:32

      Hey mate, can you confirm if the BBU allows you to run your laptop or computer direct into the NTD? Old posts on the battery backup unit mention it only powers the UNV port - for phones. Which if so I won't bother. Has it supposedly changed now so that your whole NTD stays active? In other words data is directly available, just your router will be off and unable to access this (so you'll haveto plug in direct)?

  • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 13:34

    I'd be interested to know also - where did everyone get their NTD installed? I note mine is in the garage - which frankly per the "do not store in extremes: heat/cold" warnings is the most stupid place. Done during building stage and I was never asked.

    This picture seems to indicate the NTD inside. Might be why some of you have the red light annoyance from a flat BBU - mine would be in the garage and not noticeable. Do most people have theirs installed inside?

    Would sure make a big difference as you could connect the router through to the NTD in the house, rather than all this silly conduit. Not to mention during summer that poor NTD - don't know how it will last years in a garage environment.

    http://www.nbnco.com.au/connect-home-or-business/already-con…

    I spoke to Skymesh - the BBU is supposedly a bigger backlog. If I wait for it I might be set back two or so weeks. Otherwise I can beu p and running by the end of this week. He reckons every new service can install it - does anyone know? If so I could go without a BBU now, and when I next switch ISP can I just add the BBU in free of charge? or is it only for your initial installation?

    • JLHC on 09/05/2017 - 18:43

      Thanks for the tip. Applied with Skymesh as well and opted for the Battery Backup but I want internet by this week.

      Just emailed them to cancel the Battery Backup to speed things up.

      By the way, while I've heard very good things about Skymesh, their slow email response and high Sales call queue is getting a little concerning.

      • SaberX on 09/05/2017 - 19:12

        yeah, I heard they are backlogged. Hence why my router wasn't sent out and I hadn't heard from them (applied on Friday) until today. Sure only 3rd business day since, but thought the express sent router would be here by today and I'd be up and running. Also wondering if I should cancel the battery backup. I can't determine if the BBU powers the data port on the NTD (so I can continue to plug laptop direct into router) or not on a blackout. If it only powers the voice port then I'll cancel it. Save myself maintenance costs.

        The issue is nobody seems to know much about NBN sometimes. The stuff online seems to be a few years (dated) where the BBU only powered the voice port. Like you I hope my skymesh works ok…. what plan/router did you get?

        • JLHC on 09/05/2017 - 19:15

          I applied last Friday too with a price matched plan and I've yet to hear anything from them besides the verification email.

          Let's hope they read my latest email tomorrow morning and get me up and running by this week.

        • SaberX on 10/05/2017 - 15:41

          @JLHC:

          Didn't know you can price match! Able to let me know what you priced matched?

          I got an email for verification too last fri. Didn't get anything until this morning: got a message that my skymesh email was setup, along with my user account. So I guess it is delayed. Probably when the dispatch team get through backlog and set you up/send out your router, you'll get sms'es shortly in coming days?

          Did you go with their default router, the one that costs circa $100 - circular shape? They def said they see emails faster than the call queue.

          I am tossing up cancelling the battery backup now too. I thought about the potential of plugging directly into UNI-D port, then thought about the full condition battery offers 3 hours at max (2 hours 'reserve') - how much or often can one not wait 3hours for internet usage. It's not like an important university assignment is due these days and you've got 5 minutes to close.

          The downside is a 3-4 year battery replacement of $35-45. Versus not having any maintenance cost.

        • JLHC on 10/05/2017 - 16:05

          @SaberX: They only price match non-unlimited plans so I price matched against AussieBroadband's plan based on Whirpool's recommendations.

          I'm not getting their router as I'm using my trusty Asus DSL-N55U (I disabled the modem section and use it exclusively as a router as it can support up to 100Mbps). Will most likely switch to a sort-of-mesh network system like Netgear Orbi or something new down the road as there will be a lot more router companies who are coming out with these routers within the next year or two.

          They sent me an Informed Consent Form to sign to proceed without the Battery Backup earlier today (Thanks Isaac @ Skymesh!) and my service is now awaiting activation from NBN (I've received my PPPoE details).

        • SaberX on 10/05/2017 - 17:03

          @JLHC:

          Thanks. Do they price match only - not data? I note the 50/20 plans when comparing skymesh to aussiebroadband - there isn't really a price difference/ THe $65 aussie broadband corresponds to the $65 skymesh - in total gb, although skymesh distinguishes between peak and non peak?

          The $75 aussie broadband does provide 500 gb though - way more altogether than the equivalent skymesh plan for $75 (again 50/20 speed comparisons only)

          https://www.aussiebroadband.com.au/residential/residential-i…

          https://www.skymesh.net.au/services/nbn/fibre/plans.php

          or did you price match a 100/40 ?

          Congrats! I didn't understand the whole PPPoE thing - they said it's only if the router isn't preconfigured, but I'm hoping it's all plug and play! Still tossing up sending an email to skymesh for cancelling my BBU too haha.

          I hope it works well for us both. I heard it's the 'iinet' equivalent during their early days - hopefully it hasn't become too overloaded given their backlog recently. Which usually results in getting too big and losing quality.

        • JLHC on 10/05/2017 - 17:09

          @SaberX: They will price match the whole plan, including every single detail in the contract (so if there's a setup or cancellation fee by AussieBroadband, SkyMesh will charge it too).

          The benefit price matching AussieBroadband for me is I get a single quota of 500GB @ $80/mo (100/40) without the peak and off-peak rates.

          PPPoE needs to be setup if you use an existing router. I guess they will preconfigure it if you buy a router from them so it's just plug and play.

        • SaberX on 10/05/2017 - 18:10

          @JLHC:

          oh, really. interesting.

          currently on the 50/20 plan the $65 plan gives me 60gb peak, 120gb off. Vs the aussie broadband is 100 gb altogether. Better for peak… but for 'while you sleep' downloading the 120 gb comes out on top as you get 180 gb in return. Perhaps worth matching on the higher plans.. interesting! Maybe they'll match next time I reconnect to a higher plan?

    • Toons on 10/05/2017 - 17:24

      My NTD was installed right at Main outlet where the modem was plugged in. the only hassle was the extra power outlet then you just have the RJ 11 going from there to the Modem the way it was set up was no different to having the DSL filter connected in line.

      I would question running it from garage separately, does that mean you couldn't swap to another phone outlet i.e study vs living area.

      • SaberX on 10/05/2017 - 18:09

        well, it connects into the data point in the study from the garage. so theoretically you could move the modem albeit you would need either a long Ethernet cable or install another (and wire to the garage) Ethernet data point in another room…

        • Toons on 10/05/2017 - 20:01

          This whole thing hasn't been well thought out.

          This is from the rule book 4.2 onwards garages are allowed but the definition of garage is different property to property.

          All documents state installation should be in a location where Ambient temp should not exceed 40 deg C. Especially those with battery back up. cooks the battery and leads to early failure.

          The debate whether to get the battery pack your caught in a catch 22 because you have to pay for upkeep but technically telco does because they are supposed to supply a way of contacting emergency services, for fixed lines. "this was part of the argument of paying for line rental" they also GOV used this when naked DSL plans were introduced, as a way of keeping customers with telstra.

          4.2 NTD and PSU location factors
          4.2.1 Heat
          The NTD and PSU generate heat that must be dissipated to prevent overheating that may lead to equipment failure or damage to the customer’s property. Adequate clearance must be maintained around the equipment to ensure adequate ventilation. The equipment must not be installed behind clothes in a robe, inside a linen closet or behind a window curtain (see 4.2.2).
          The NTD and PSU must not be exposed to external heat sources that may raise the ambient temperature to the extent that normal equipment ventilation will be inadequate to prevent overheating. For example, the equipment must not be installed near a heating appliance or heating vent, be exposed to direct sunlight (e.g. through a window) or be installed in an enclosure that is exposed to direct sunlight.

        • SaberX on 11/05/2017 - 15:09

          @Toons:

          That's my gripe. This is a traditional garage. It get shot in there, way hotter than inside the house. No insulation. Similarly it'll be colder in winter. It's the summer time that I'm worried about. I'm sure I'm not the only new build in WA that has arrived at home open time with the NBN box already on the garage wall. The reality is I pretty much know it'd cost me an arm and a leg to get it moved.

          If the NBN co hardware dies - is it their responsibility to come out and replace it? In which case this would be there problem in putting it in a heat sensitive environment in the first place?

          This also worries me with the BBU and shortening the battery life - given it's in the garage. It would add future value if I ever rent, sell or move out - as some may want it.. but I can't help but wonder if the short life and 3 hours backup you get is worth the $35 every 3 years.

        • Toons on 11/05/2017 - 15:27

          @SaberX:

          the cooler temp has been brought up too as it's supposed to be maintained between 10 and 40 degrees

          I'm still wondering about the emergency services issue you technically signed a waiver when you took up a naked DSL plan because you were utilising VOIP you couldn't contact emergency services if needed.

          The NBN has effectively killed that which was why the battery backup was changed from optional to mandatory i think some companies might be playing on this as another way to make some cash till they get pulled up on it

          same with the installation they know that if you have the most basic installation they can get away with it's money in the bank and they expect you to come back for more points.

          I'm sure there was a minimum of two points they had to install in the property also.

          things like netgear's orbi is going to put them further behind because you won't need a point all over awesome system couldn't recommend it higher

          they have this assumption that people are going to basically have a patch panel installed to distribute throughout the house

          just look for Telstra NTD and the technical rules should come up

        • SaberX on 11/05/2017 - 15:35

          @Toons:

          Interesting - so the NBN should have installed two data points in your house? I don't know if I have a patch panel.. but there's a data panel and phone in my garage next to the NTD. I assume this conduit leads to my study room which has a data point. But is this a patch panel?

          And still, I only have one data point present. Not sure how hard it is to convert this setup to multiple Ethernet through the house - I purposely left conduit and blank wall plates in various rooms for this 'expandability' during my planning stages.

          The garage definitely doesn't meet the operating conditions. But I doubt anyone has had luck telling NBN to listen to their own advice and remove it from the garage?? Quite silly. Makes me think of removing the BBU request given it probably won't last long in the garage. Not to mention my garage faces the setting north westerly sun……..

        • Toons on 11/05/2017 - 16:14

          @SaberX:

          have a look at the installation guide it shows the detail for running a multi point system

          I think it was this one

          (https://www.telstra.com.au/content/dam/tcom/personal/help/pd…)

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