Cheapest method for legal (basic) electrical or plumbing work?

dufflover on 02/05/2017 - 09:36

With the laws we have around being a licensed <insert trade here> I've seen a lot of the comments about stuff having to be by a licensed sparky, but nothing really around the OzBargain way of going about it.
So what I mean is, things like "I bought a dishwasher", or "I need to replace my LED transformer".
New transformer, $10.
Time to replace it < 15mins.
Tradie to legally replace it, 10x cost multiplier :P

And a bit like the Xiaomi power boards, at what point does something become not legal to use say because it's not compliant or just a matter of insurance. e.g. I want to run LED strip lighting in my under-stair storage rather than a single globe, via something like this which technically does nothing to the fixed wiring:
http://www.ebay.com/itm//371800377832

What are some of the ways people keep the costs down (legally)? Batch up the jobs for a call out? Hiring a different type of sparky, if there is such a thing like maybe lesser certs?

Unfortunately I don't have any sparky mates who can do beer/mates rates.

Electrical & Electronics

Comments

  • ESEMCE on 02/05/2017 - 09:51
    +5

    1) don't buy those super dodgy adapters you've linked to
    2) if you're smart enough to know not to buy that crap, then you're probably smart enough to do the basic wiring/plumbing in a cautious manner such that your "illegal" job is safer than the dodgy adapter you might otherwise have used to do it "legally" yourself.
    3) I tend to batch up jobs that are above my qualifications.

  • dufflover on 02/05/2017 - 09:59

    Well that's kind of my point in a way. A dodgy adapter is not as safe but could be perfectly "legal". Saying the illegal job is safer is not really the point here (I know I could do swap out my dodgy downlight transformer fine) but obviously it's not "legal".

    Batching up jobs for a single call out would be nice but I wonder how long until I build up enough jobs to justify it!

    As I mentioned in one of the Xiaomi board deals, my concern wasn't the board causing issues but the fact it is present at all gives an excuse for it to blamed anyway even if it's not at fault - although some people replied that is not true. Also it makes me think now if it's possible to spot a "non-certified electrician installed transformer", but I suppose that too is beside the point as it's still "illegal work".

  • HardQuiz on 02/05/2017 - 10:24

    Airtasker?

  • [Deactivated] on 02/05/2017 - 10:48

    I've used a website called serviceseeking for a removalist and a plumber before never had a problem but they are only basic stuff. Sends you multiple quotes off different people but definitely say you want a qualified person only, at minimum you will roughly know how much a job will cost.

  • outlander on 02/05/2017 - 11:01

    You want it legally done, then its a tradesmen, and even at the cheapest you're still paying around $50 an hour

    • dasher86 on 02/05/2017 - 12:27
      • call out.
    • dufflover on 02/05/2017 - 13:33

      The callout especially on a weekend or evening alone would already be enough to go all John McEnroe

  • mshanann on 02/05/2017 - 11:12

    Firstly don't even consider trying to do it yourself, if there is a real risk of ####-up, or something not following the 'code' that could interfere with an insurance claim or whatever if your house was to burn down, or someone get electrocuted etc.

    I'm not sure what city/state you are in. I'm in Brisbane and have had good luck leveraging serviceseeking.cXm.au

    Look at the reviews of the tradesperson, along with the price per hour. I obtained a sparkie for ~$70 per hour.

    Definitely try and batch up your tasks, but also try and determine what sequence of work will give you best bang for your buck in terms of 'time'. If the tradie is going to be up in the ceiling cavity above bedrooms installing connected smoke alarms, maybe it is also a good time to get that ceiling fan or light etc added in the room whilst he/she is up there (if you can afford it that is).

    In terms of bigger ticket equipment like hot water systems, air conditioners, fans, smoke alarms, etc, the manufacturers and/or wholesalers often periodically provide incentives/rebates which the tradesperson will receive by selling that particular brand/product. This may steer them to sell you a specific item regardless of alternatives that maybe better quality or slightly cheaper. The tradeperson also will likely obtain the item at a wholesale price, but sell you the item at retail.

    What I do is try and obtain such items myself, and then just get the tradeperson to install. For example, you can purchase electrical equipment like smoke alarms etc from places like tradezone.com.au at vastly cheaper prices then probably what your sparkie will quote for them. Obviously warranty becomes an issue with this approach. If the fan/light etc fails after a few months, then your tradie is not going to help you out if you didn't get the equipment through them. Whereas if they installed the said fan/light etc, they will likely come out for free and replace. So you need to factor that in.

    My main tip is to be generous with the tradeperson when they are out on site. It doesn't work with every tradeperson, but most appreciate it and will look after you as a result. For example, I'm heading up to coffee shop / bakery etc, let me get you a coffee / pie etc etc. Purchase some morning tea , provide drinks etc.

  • nocure on 02/05/2017 - 11:27

    Swipe right

  • Gronk on 02/05/2017 - 13:00

    Yeah I wouldn't be touching those adapters personally.

    I'm happy enough to do my own minor electrical work - ie: replacing an appliance plug or power point but anything bigger than that and I'd call someone in.

    I don't think it's worth the risk should the worst happen because your insurance won't payout if you burn your house down because you wired something up yourself instead of calling a professional.

  • chazfg on 02/05/2017 - 13:18
    1. Make friends. These days it is handy to have a mate with a trade. By law, a tradesperson is not allowed to perform work for free, but they can give you tips on design and how to save cost upfront.
    2. Use this next time you wire up your house. You can replace LED transformers yourself if you are using these surface mount plugs in the roof cavity. http://www.clipsal.com/Trade/Products/ProductDetail?CatNo=41…
    3. Batch up work, especially for major changes or additions.
    4. Go low voltage when you can. It is becoming more common with outdoor lightning and LED strips. You didn't call a sparky to wire up your Christmas lights, did you?
    • dufflover on 02/05/2017 - 13:39

      haha bad idea mentioning that light thing, though I still think it's a good example of how stupidly legally-but-worse is better than illegal-but-better. I'm not looking for tips to save on things like the design up front, because the issue is not the project cost but the fact a $10 transformer pales in comparison to the cost for someone "official" to unscrew and re-screw a couple of wires.

      • chazfg on 02/05/2017 - 14:04

        If you feel confident, by all means, just isolate the supply to the house first. At the end of the day, it is a risk management exercise for your own safety…and I don't need to know :)
        I think, for your example of replacing LED transformers, you can get a way with an electrical restricted license. Handyman / general property maintainer normally has that and they can perform plumbing work to a certain degree.

        • BensonP on 02/05/2017 - 18:03
          +1

          Incorrect. Changing hardwired LED transformers requires a licenced electrician.

          Not the 12 volt side. Anyone can play with extra low voltage. But what is the other side of the transformer? Fixed 240 installation, which requires a licence.

          Hope this clarifies !

      • ESEMCE on 02/05/2017 - 14:20
        +2

        to unscrew and re-screw a couple of wires.

        The problem is that common sense isn't very common, so the regulations are written to the lowest common denominator.
        It only takes one "absent minded person" to kill themselves cause they thought the light circuit was dead but didn't actually check, or for someone in the Dunning-Kruger trough to bite off more than they can chew and wire the active to ground to spoil it for the rest of us.

        • dufflover on 02/05/2017 - 14:27
          +1

          Yeah I already figured that's how these things first came to be in the first place, sigh

          "Warning, tickets not to be taken internally"
          "See, because of me they now have a warning."

  • BensonP on 02/05/2017 - 18:16

    Yeah those sockets look dodgy as f**k! Would not trust.

    As for what's legal? If you need to alter fixed wiring installation, it's a job for a sparky.

    Can you change the end of a extension cord? Yes, as it's not fixed.

    • dufflover on 02/05/2017 - 21:06

      Can you change the end of a extension cord? Yes, as it's not fixed.

      During my Googling I read somewhere you weren't allowed to do that either since it's primarily designed to carry 240V too with the same risks of dodgy work. Don't remember if it was a state specific thing.

      • azonki on 03/05/2017 - 12:20

        The Legislation calls for "a competent person" to change a plug on a lead.
        In businesses such as corded appliance repairs, this usually means a person with extensive in-house training.
        A licence is not required.
        If the appliance is hard wired (oven, HWS, etc), a person removing or replacing that item needs a minimum "connect/disconnect" licence.
        To change or modify the supply outlet, you must be a licenced electrician.
        In some situations, e.g. mining industry, you need a licence to change a light globe.

  • onetrickpony on 03/05/2017 - 07:38
    +1

    From a sparkys POV, the main concern with the DIY home electrician, is the presumption that "if it works its done properly".

    The main issues, and the ones which tends to cause harm eventually are-

    The earth wire either not connected, or not connected properly. Everything appears to work just fine, but the primary level of life-saving protection is not there. This one can easily kill you.

    The earth wire connected to the neutral or black connection of the fixture. If you have a safety switch fitted to that circuit it may trip, otherwise 240 volts will be running through your plumbing, a problem in the plumbing in conjunction with a non apparent neutral fault can kill you or the plumber.

    Incorrect polarity, or putting the switch in the black or neutral wire. Everything appears to work fine, but the fixture is always energised, even with the switch off.

    This stuff happens more than you may think. Just because it works, doesn't make it safe.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2017 - 10:40

      Cable selection (for protection,load rating etc).
      voltage drop.

      Just to add to the list.

    • dufflover on 03/05/2017 - 23:08

      Everything appears to work fine, but the fixture is always energised, even with the switch off.

      Doesn't that make a lot of travel adapter stuff not safe as well? If the appliance is only single side switched but the plug is inserted reversed (not that you can always tell with plugs of many countries) then you'd have the same hazard.

      • onetrickpony on 04/05/2017 - 15:47

        No, because the travel adapter plugs into a power point, the power point has the integrated switch built into it, which always should be switching the live wire. The travel adapters ive seen which are really unsafe, often come to Australia with things like grey import phones. They have a two pin plug ( no earth pin) which plugs into the power point, and a 3 pin socket on the back. You can plug any appliance into them, which needs an earth connection for safety, but the earth of the adaptor doesn't connect to the power point. Really dodgey!

  • Toons on 03/05/2017 - 11:00

    I'm licensed and the amount of people who do this and screw it up themselves is dumbfounding then they decide to call and ask for help.

    the amount of people i had asking me what the spare wires were for was amazing.

    Costs are costs and yes everything is ridiculously high, the guy coming out to do the work has to submit a ticket to the energy company in your state detailing the changes made work completed each state is different.

    So their licence / livelihood is on the line, anything on the live side of a device you shouldn't be touching like your scenario of LED fine on low voltage side but the 240 side there are laws for a reason and the last thing we want to see is you hooked up or loose your house because you tried to save a few bucks.

    I'll always help out mates but some people need more than help

  • pdperth on 03/05/2017 - 11:23
    +1

    I just paid 120$ for a sparky at 85 per hour, min 1 hour. Got him to do 2 security lights, discoonect oven, change light switch and advise on tank pump. Pretty cheap really..

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