How to Intentionally Block E-Tag Signal?

John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 16:01
Last edited 15/04/2017 - 08:29

We don't have a car at the moment, so we have hired one for the Easter Long Weekend. The rental company says we have to use their e-tag as it is permanently stuck on the windscreen. They charge the toll fee and then an additional (per day of use) admin fee. So theoretically if we went through a toll everyday of the car hire, the admin fee would add up.

I want to see if I can block the signal on their e-tag somehow; the only thing I can thing of is folding a few layers of alfoil and wrapping it around their e-tag and then using our own e-tag. I'm hoping this would work?

Does anyone have any experience doing something similar? Any other suggestions?

I googled and some forums mention their e-tags work in the glove box…which I thought wouldn't work?

Only concern I guess is that I don't use enough layers and the signal from their e-tag is not blocked and I get charged on both e-tags :/

I know it would only be an extra few bucks on top of the already expensive car hire, but this is Ozbargain and I want to save wherever possible :)

Thanks in advance.

Update
Test 1: Success! Crossed the harbour bridge and only heard the beep from our tag. Won't know 100% until we get the bill from the rental place I suppose, but pretty confident it worked (at least this time).

https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/190487/48180/dsc_2098.…

My impression is that the battery would be behind the mount on the left and the electronics would be on the right, which is why it doesn't matter I didn't cover the left.

Test 2: Fail (I think). Harbour Bridge doesn't look like either tag went off (so will probably get some extra administration fee now. M5 their tag went off but not ours. Lame.

Automotive

Comments

  • Stewardo on 13/04/2017 - 16:05

    They unclip from the mount normally

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 16:06
      +2

      They've intentionally not used a normal clip or something it looks like.

      • ronnknee on 15/04/2017 - 20:10

        Imagine both tags going off at the same time. Any cost savings from your ingenious plan are instantly negated.

  • Stewardo on 13/04/2017 - 16:07

    Paint scraper then double sided tape to remount it

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 16:23
      +1

      Potentially an option, but dunno if I want to go that far…maybe a last resort.

  • stratbargain on 13/04/2017 - 16:21
    -2

    You would have to add the rental car to your etag account for this plan to work. But I'm pretty sure that's possible if the car isn't your car and it's already registered to another account.

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 16:25
      +1

      Not required here because I would mount my own e-tag on the windscreen (using my car phone holder). Have successfully done this already when I rented from another company where their cars did not come with their own e-tags.

      • Ragnarok1983 on 15/04/2017 - 09:39

        Still have to register the car temporarily under your e-tag.

        • Polskipiotr on 15/04/2017 - 13:06

          Not True.
          Many times i have grabbed my etag and taken it into friends cars. As long as the tag beeps your good to go as they charge your account for the trip Never had an issue.

          Only issue is if you go through a highway that has a cashback option like the M5 in sydney and the vehicle is registered as a business vehicle and then you try to claim that trip as a cashback. they will decline it. only personal cars can be claimed on.

        • Ragnarok1983 on 15/04/2017 - 15:13

          @Polskipiotr:

          Not true, I have used courtesy car many times while getting my car serviced. Each time I used my etag, it beeps but I still get a bill that bounces back in Melbourne.

  • bobbified on 13/04/2017 - 16:28
    +9

    RFID - It essentially works the same way as your apartment or office swipe card, but a little more powerful.

    Place a sheet of metal over it or if you have an RFID-blocking wallet, place it over the tag so that the direct signal can't read it.

    Like you've already said ,a few layers of aluminium foil wrapped around it should also work.

    Anything that can reflect radio waves.

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 16:33
      +2

      Cool thanks, I don't own a RFID wallet, but I have successfully used 4? layers of alfoil to prevent my paywave cards impacting my use of my Opal card whilst still in the wallet, so I assumed the same principle applied here.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/04/2017 - 16:30
    +1

    aluminum foil, a few layers
    if its a Europcar, get your hair dryer and heat up the glue and pull it off.

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 16:34
      +2

      Haha, I like the MacGyver option; unfortunately I would need to go buy a pretty long extension cable for the hairdryer…only have street parking in my street!

      • [Deactivated] on 13/04/2017 - 17:03
        +1

        If it's sunny where you are, park in direct sunlight might help too

  • Davo1111 on 13/04/2017 - 18:24

    If it were me, i'd get a few layers of alfoil, then tape it on the windscreen. If youre really worried, slip an opal card in there, to mess up the signal further. Then make a long strip and wrap it around the outside of the etag.

    Not sure if it would work, but that;s what i'd do.

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 19:51

      I would be concerned about getting fined for obstructing the windscreen and potentially blinding oncoming traffic with sunlight reflection… Even though very small chance of either happening I would guess.

      • Davo1111 on 13/04/2017 - 20:25

        was thinking the square would be no larger than say 1-2cm on all sides. Then gaffa tape over the top.

        • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 20:40

          OIC… Well, I've fashioned up a foil "e-tagdom" might try and upload photos tomorrow and post results hahaha

  • ronnknee on 13/04/2017 - 18:39
    +21

    A true OzBargainer would not drive on toll roads (unless it gets reimbursed by the government).

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 19:10
      +11

      It's my first day? :p

  • [Deactivated] on 13/04/2017 - 19:20
    +1

    Tin foil wrap the bajesus out of it.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/04/2017 - 19:25
    +10

    You will need to craft a hat out of aluminium foil also. Otherwise those toll gates will steal your thoughts.

  • wukachuka on 13/04/2017 - 19:37

    Pull it off and leave it out of the car, use yours, then tell them it fell off?

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 19:49
      +1

      I'm a pretty crappy liar so they would see right through me… My wife on the other hand…

      They will probably charge an exorbitant e-tag damage fee!

  • Gunther on 13/04/2017 - 22:15
    +2

    Waze App > Avoid tolls. Problem solved.

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 22:27
      +3

      Yeah can choose no tolls with Google Maps too. Sometimes paying the toll is worth it though.

      • Gunther on 13/04/2017 - 22:29

        Not in this situation obviously.

        • skimp on 14/04/2017 - 12:05
          +7

          He doesn't mind tolls just the admin fees added by the rental company.

  • derek324 on 13/04/2017 - 23:15
    -7

    If a car goes through a toll gate and it does not trigger e-tag the gate takes the car photo (similar to automated speed cameras). Registration plates are traceable to the rental company, and you will be charged the toll + additional fees.

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 23:22
      +2

      Did you read my post entirely? I will use my own e-tag instead.

      • derek324 on 13/04/2017 - 23:28

        Sorry, missed that. Wasn't aware that you can get etag not having a car.

        • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 23:36
          +1

          No worries. We used to have two cars with an e-tag each… Sold both for one car and then I totalled that one :(

          Kept one e-tag still haven't bought a car yet. Haha

    • Oz-Bogan on 13/04/2017 - 23:52
      -4

      It takes a photo regardless of whether there's an e-tag or not. The e-tag and the car rego need to match.

      • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 23:59

        Pretty sure it only takes a photo if there is no tag.

        And the tag and rego don't need to match… There just needs to be money in it.

        • Oz-Bogan on 14/04/2017 - 09:07
          +1

          If that's so why do you need to register your rego on your e-tag account then?

        • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 09:15
          +2

          @Local: In case it fails for some reason. And KYC reasons I suppose?

        • Oz-Bogan on 14/04/2017 - 10:08
          -2

          @John Kimble:
          If I take the rental cars e-tag off and put mine on, how is it going to know which car I'm traveling in unless it takes a photo? Think about it.

        • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 10:10
          +3

          @Local: huh? It reads your e-tag??? It doesn't care what car it is, as long as the car has a e-tag and there is money in the account.

        • skimp on 14/04/2017 - 12:14
          +1

          So the toll company can charge your account if your tag is faulty, lost, or has a flat battery.

        • StalkingIbis on 15/04/2017 - 10:55

          tag and rego definitely need to match.

          Heard of somone getting a new car, popping their old etag in and then getting hundreds of dollars in overdue fines cos they thought the money was coming off the tag, but in reality they were getting charged video matching fee of like $8 per trip, overdue fee of $20 per fine, and then the overdue fee goes up to $80 after the second month.

          I was out of county for 3 weeks and came back to $120 in overdue fees for 2 trips i didnt pay on my motorbike.

      • bobbified on 14/04/2017 - 10:32
        +4

        The etags don't need to match the rego. They are transferrable between cars as long as the cars are in the same class. That is, you can't use your car's tag in a semi trailer (because the prices vary for different classes).

      • masadav on 14/04/2017 - 15:31
        +4

        This varies from motorway to motorway and the tolling system they are using, but I can confirm that at least 3 motorways perform 100% photo capture of every passage. However, the images are only ever used if there is no etag detected in the vehicle. The etag and rego definitely do not need to match.

      • Clivey In Space on 15/04/2017 - 06:44

        With Govia in QLD you need to have the vehicle registered to the tag. I would check if it's the same case for e-tags

        https://www.govia.com.au/web/ssp/linklpn

      • Polskipiotr on 15/04/2017 - 13:13

        No they dont. that is absolute bullshit.

        Never had an issue. Used many cars and just threw my etag into the cars

  • SpaceNinja on 13/04/2017 - 23:18
    +1

    hammer ?

  • Oz-Bogan on 13/04/2017 - 23:44
    +8

    Just been through this exact scenario in Melbourne.
    1. Pull the rental car's e-tag off the windscreen, and stick it in your suitcase under a bunch of clothes.
    2. Register the cars number plate on your e-tag account, include expiry date if possible (in case you forget to unregister it)
    3. Stick your e-tag on with blutac.
    4. Drive on toll roads.
    5. When finished replace their e-tag with double sided tape.
    6. Unregister their number plates off your e-tag account.
    So far (3 weeks) I have received the toll charges on my e-tag account but no toll charges (or admin fee) on my credit card. Fingers crossed!!

  • Findo on 13/04/2017 - 23:47
    +5

    I had a hire car in Brisbane last year, I paid for the unlimited toll option. I ended up using more than $15/day and deliberately drove on toll roads. If you can't remove their e-tag, get your money's worth!

    • John Kimble on 13/04/2017 - 23:50
      +2

      Did not even know this was an option, will keep in mind. Not sure if we would come out in front though just thinking about where we would go…sounds like when you go all you can eat buffet and overeat!

      • Findo on 13/04/2017 - 23:59
        +1

        When I hired another car on the Gold Coast last year, their e-tag was superglued to the bracket. I didn't want to damage the tag or the bracket so I drove on non-toll roads. If you carry some spare double sided tape with you, you probably can just rip the whole thing off the glass and replace it without anyone noticing.

        • Oz-Bogan on 14/04/2017 - 00:03

          Just like I said………………

        • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 00:04

          In my case I don't think there is a bracket looks like they've just double taped it straight to the windscreen. They've also placed it right at the bottom of the windscreen almost touching the dashboard so I'm guessing it would be difficult to pull off…but haven't really had a good look.

        • Findo on 14/04/2017 - 00:14

          @John Kimble: all common e-tags mount onto brackets that are stuck on with double sided tape. A butter knife will make easy work of removing the bracket. Most tags recommend you mount them up high near the rear view mirror…

        • Oz-Bogan on 14/04/2017 - 10:46

          @niggard: Ok, but why do you need to give your car's rego numbers to the toll company?

        • Findo on 14/04/2017 - 11:08

          @Local: my tags are the RMS e-toll ones. I've used them in Brisbane and Melbourne, in different cars as well. I would say no based on my experiences but I'm not entirely sure.

  • Helmuth on 14/04/2017 - 01:44
    +7

    A pity you aren't in one of the Southern USA states. You'd be able to shoot out the toll booth sensor from the back of your pickup truck.

    • WT on 14/04/2017 - 11:17
      +2

      yee har

  • 0p on 14/04/2017 - 02:03
    +3

    I have heard 5cm thick lead blocks gamma rays…

    Nothing to do with this just an interesting fact…

    • bluesix on 14/04/2017 - 09:09

      Maybe throw some asbestos on there for good measure!

    • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 09:38

      And superman's xray vision and kryptonite too I think?

  • subydooby on 14/04/2017 - 09:00
    +9

    Remove windscreen, the weather is going to be nice…

  • kiitos on 14/04/2017 - 09:28

    If you were covering the tag with alfoil, you'd have to cover the footprint of the tag on the outside of the windscreen too, wouldn't you?

    • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 09:34

      Dunno. Was hoping no. Ha

  • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 10:04
    +5

    If anyone is interested, my (untested) attempt.

    https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/190487/48168/photogrid…

    • Oz-Bogan on 14/04/2017 - 12:57
      +2

      Make sure you're wearing yours too!
      Those toll stations can read your mind……..
      https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/13977/48172/images.jpg

    • [Deactivated] on 14/04/2017 - 14:48

      I have a haunch that this won't work. You have only covered the face of it. I'm pretty sure the signals can travel through the etag casing (i.e. the mount shell), which is currently exposed. At the minimum you need to continue the foiling and tape them to the windscreen so the whole etag and casing is blinded.

      You may need to attach foils outside on the windscreen too.

    • masadav on 14/04/2017 - 15:48

      You need to cover the windshield side as this is the transmit/receive direction.

      • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 17:02

        It does wrap around to the front. Just had to cut and fold over so it could slide past the "mount plate".

  • squeeb on 14/04/2017 - 10:38
    +2

    Not realising that the hire car company hid their etag in the glovebox, I just used my own. I got charged twice plus their stupid admin fee.

    When I complained about it, they didn't want to know and basically said that I should try to get a refund on my own etag. I didn't bother but learnt the hard way.

    Will try your foil hack next time. Do let us know how it goes.

    • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 10:43
      +1

      Wah, so sneaky of them! Yep, will update once we test it out.

  • gomazz on 14/04/2017 - 11:19
    +5

    If I had my choice over again, I would keep the rental car e-tag and pay double what they were charging, just so I didn't have to read all these comments again.

  • GregMonarch on 14/04/2017 - 12:56
    +2

    Any other suggestions?

    • Remove with paint scraper and epoxy it back on.
    • Rent from another company.
    • Rent from a friend.
    • Borrow from a friend.
    • Get a friend.
    • Buy the cheapest car you can find with more than a couple of weeks of rego on ebay/gumtree/tradingpost/newspaper. Resell it when you do get a car. Or sell immediately after the weekend for a bit less than you paid so it sells quickly. Probably not on the same site if purchased online, but I would just state the truth about why it's up for sale again. "Yes, it is the same car that was on here last week. I only purchased it to use over the Easter long weekend because it was cheaper than paying a greedy rental company. The car itself is fine."

    The foil probably won't do a thing. Looking at that photo there looks to be some kind of clip on the side. I've never seen an etag. But surely it's a plastic card of some kind they send in the mail. So there has to be a way to insert it into the device, or remove the device from the glued mount.

    • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 13:14

      My wife asked them when she picked up the car can we use our own tag and they said no, because they've permanently stuck it there, ie there is no bracket like most people have.

      • GregMonarch on 14/04/2017 - 13:44

        Yeah, but what I'm saying is, there appears to be a clip on the side. That hints you're able to open it up to remove the etag, or, to remove the unit from its base. i.e. I would assume the base sticks to the glass with epoxy, and then they clip the bit you've put foil around, onto the base. Or the clip might be to open a slot to remove their etag so you can insert your own.

        If not, I'd get a razor blade or thin paint scraper, remove the entire thing, leave it at home, use your own by adding the plate to your etag (if needed), then buy a small packet of two-part epoxy from the supermarket/Bunnings and glue it back on later. Looking at that picture it's begging for that to happen.

        • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 13:46

          Um…no…not going that far… Haha

        • GregMonarch on 14/04/2017 - 13:54

          @John Kimble: Awfully simple, but your choice. All they've done is mixed some two-part expoxy on a bit of plastic, smeared it on the base, then pressed it onto the glass. Just like fitting a rearview mirror.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ03Qv9dIgo

        • GregMonarch on 14/04/2017 - 13:56

          @John Kimble: My bet is you press that clip in, which allows the main part (that you've put foil around) to slide either sideways or up, and off the base. Or opens it to remove the etag.

        • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 14:16

          @GregMonarch: Nope, you are seeing something that is not there. There is no clip or bracket on this particular tag.

      • Ken1977 on 14/04/2017 - 14:46

        Your tag looks the same type as Melbourne's etags. They slide off sideways. They do require a bit of force as I guess they don't want them falling off. I've actually had to pull the whole tag and holder off once when I sold a car, you can just walk into the Eastlink shop in ringwood and get a new holder free.

  • [Deactivated] on 14/04/2017 - 14:41

    I'd do as per your own suggestion (alfoils) but would make sure to attach foil layers both outside and inside the car directly under the tag. I presume the waves don't know directions.

    Also, I would place the other tag right beside the old tag to absorb/reflect the signals clearer than the hidden one?

  • D6C1 on 14/04/2017 - 15:12

    How much are the admin fees

    • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 16:47

      Extra $3.30 on any day a toll was used.

  • Kill Joy on 14/04/2017 - 16:04

    I wouldn't bother - you run the risk of double fees if they scan both tags.

  • John Kimble on 14/04/2017 - 16:46

    Update
    Test 1: Success! Crossed the harbour bridge and only heard the beep from our tag. Won't know 100% until we get the bill from the rental place I suppose, but pretty confident it worked (at least this time).

    https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/190487/48180/dsc_2098.…

    My impression is that the battery would be behind the mount on the left and the electronics would be on the right, which is why it doesn't matter I didn't cover the left.

  • [Deactivated] on 14/04/2017 - 18:36
    +2

    Wrap the whole car with alfoil,
    then mount reverse camera on the bonnet
    Don't worry about reflection,
    it should make you invisible so you can park for free too!

  • Vulcano on 14/04/2017 - 19:48

    Look up how to make a simple Faraday cage. A wire mesh like brass works well if you can find some cheap.

  • John Kimble on 15/04/2017 - 08:30

    Update

    Test 2: Fail (I think). Harbour Bridge doesn't look like either tag went off (so will probably get some extra administration fee now). M5 their tag went off but not ours. Lame.

    • WT on 16/04/2017 - 10:36
      +1

      log online and switch the plate to your account for the time being

  • idonotknowwhy on 15/04/2017 - 10:28
    +1

    I had to transport someone's etag once. I wrapped it in tin-foil and it didn't beep.
    Edit: This was suggested to me when I called eastlink support.

  • starwarsfreak on 15/04/2017 - 14:08

    cut out the glass section of the windscreen, problem solved lolz

  • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2017 - 21:33
    +1

    so many bits still uncovered, you can definitely try harder!!!!

    https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/190487/48168/photogrid…

    • John Kimble on 16/04/2017 - 06:35

      Yes, I suppose. FYI I intentionally I opened the side up for the photo to try and show there was no bracket for the bottom photo.

  • redslert on 16/04/2017 - 02:42
    +1

    I think people should open a case with ACCC.

    People should have a right to choose to use their own methods for paying tolls.
    It isn't fair if you have your own device but forced to pay extra.

  • Sammy901 on 16/04/2017 - 05:34
    -1

    So all this to save how much? Don't people put any value on their time any more

    Just catch public transport

    • John Kimble on 16/04/2017 - 06:33

      From Sydney To Canberra with a 16 month old?

  • hamwhisperer on 16/04/2017 - 06:17

    How much are the fees they are charging extra? I'm hiring a car soon and I'm curious.

    • John Kimble on 16/04/2017 - 06:38

      Not much to be honest, $3.30 per day we use a toll. Might be different depending on the rental company.

      For me it is a combination of the principle, seeing if it would work and saving on fees.

      Looks like from my second update I will pay more if both tags didn't go off twice…

      • Gershom on 16/04/2017 - 10:02
        +3

        All this for three bucks. And I thought I had no life!

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