Yep, in Victoria, apparently doing 105 in a 100KPH zone in a company registered car, will get you an Infringement Notice for $3109, which "may be" reduced if you nominate the driver.
I believe the fine may then be reduced to $194 and ONE Demerit Point.
While I don't have a fundamental problem with this, it's just another government pig in a suit.
Is it reasonable to expect an eBay/Gumtree market to develop in this price structure?
$3109 Fine for 105KPH in 100KPH Zone
GOFYS on 16/03/2017 - 15:20
Last edited 16/03/2017 - 15:20
Last edited 16/03/2017 - 15:20
Comments
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It's a car, I know.
I think its the same in NSW as well. I remember my manager saying this. He was on his way back to office after a client visit and the fine came to office as the car was registered under business name. If they dont nominate the person, around $3000 fine else the fine is normal for the individual. But i dont think its that difficult for the business to find as there will be log books.
Is it reasonable to expect an eBay/Gumtree market to develop in this price structure?
Nah - nominating a driver involves a statutory declaration. People have gone to jail for signing false stat decs.
I doubt compensation of $2915 would be enough for someone to risk a jail term.
That makes no sense. For one thing it is not the person receiving the compensation who has to nominate the driver, it is the person named on the penalty notice. Moreover you can do the nomination using an online form rather than a stat dec. See http://www.sdro.nsw.gov.au/fines/pn/driver.php
That makes no sense.
You're right … The vehicle owner doesn't even need to compensate someone for taking the hit on the points … just need to steal someone's ID!
Moreover you can do the nomination using an online form rather than a stat dec
Interesting that making a false declaration on the online form has a different penalty to a false statutory declaration.
Seems like they've just opened up more loopholes when they tried to clamp down on company registered cars.
That suggestion isn't going to work (maybe if the person is recently dead or just left OS). When you pay someone you are paying them not to object to the nomination.
That suggestion isn't going to work (maybe if the person is recently dead or just left OS).
I thought about that - It'll be your word against theirs … not sure 'i was home alone' will cut it as an alibi.
Is it that difficult to work out who the driver was and nominate them…?
It's because too many people were not nominating a driver and letting the company pay the fine. Just nominate the driver responsible and the amount of the fine will drop. Quite simple and fair.
Mostly business owners themselves I guess.
If it was a 3 demerit point fine I'd rather pay the $3k specially if need the car for work.
Each time you fail to nominate someone, the fine goes up!
In the past, people have hidden behind a company firewall to avoid racking up demerit points in a company registered vehicle, even if the so called company was just an ABN and the one vehicle was used by the one person. The fee is to avoid that happening. Our company gets these all the time and just tracks down the tech who was using the car on the day.
Yup same with where I work.
curious, whats the consequence for the driver?
I would say the driver paying the fine and losing demerit points is punishment enough.
I got pulled into the office and got a warning from the boss (in addition to paying the fine and moving on).
I did find it funny my boss having a crack at me when he lost his license for 6 months after repeated drink driving offences.
Rule Nr. 1. The Boss is always right
Rule Nr. 2. In case the Boss is NOT right, Rule Nr. 1 must be applied.When I was working in Computer Support company, The Boss called us in, and said he got many phone-calls of people, seeing vans with our logo driving recklessly, and exceeding speed limits.
I love the tradies who drive like d***. I get the phone number of their company and ALWAYS call it, to give whoever is on the other side an ear-full.
I worked for a guy who did this. He legitimately owned a business and all, but put his R35 GTR on company rego so he didn't rake up any demerit points speeding etc.
But it still costs his business the 3 grand right? What's the point in this?
so he obviously won't accumulate any points. geez
I'm guessing it gives him the freedom to drive at whatever speed he wants without incurring demerit points? (Assuming he can afford it of course…)
The bit I don't get is companies are forking out $3k for speeding fines and the employee gets away with it?
I work for one of the largest companies in Australia, I have to go to hell and back just to get a $100 petrol claim let alone getting away with a 3k fine.
@GearUp: They're not. Legitimate companies find the employee responsible, nominate the driver, and they get the points and only pay the lesser amount.
@whoopdeedoo: it'd be cheaper and smarter to stick to the speed limit; how are some people running a business when they can't even work out that simple concept…
@whoopdeedoo: To his employees: "Sorry guys, I've to shorten your salaries, we have too much 'Expenses' "
iirc it's a measure to tackle vehicles owned by companies which can't accumulate demerit points, nominate a driver and be done with it
Is it reasonable to expect an eBay/Gumtree market to develop in this price structure?
Sounds like a plan! (not really, unless you're desperate)
Exactly this. The authorities determine that a driver should be penalised a certain amount of points, and fined a certain amount of money. If they don't have a driver because it's a business car, they only have the ability to heavily fine the owner, with the opportunity for the driver to come forward and receive the "personal" penalty.
The points->dollars exchange rate for business infringements is pretty high, but that's to discourage bad drivers hiding behind a business name, as well as motivating the company to hold the correct employee responsible instead of covering their fine.
It seems like a sensible policy, but I am a little curious if it is open to abuse in exceptional cases - e.g. could super wealthy drivers avoid losing their license from frequent speeding fines by having their car registered as a business car?…
They already do.
Wow. Makes me so annoyed that for not having my P Plate showing correctly, i lost 2 demerit points and $250.
If that's the case, most likely you were driving at 110km/h. Most cars have this sort of feature but I'm not 100% on this.
Pretty much all new cars 2000+ are 5ks under
Told my courier mate he didn't believe me then grabbed a GPS and said sh£t your right i would say they do that for court reasonsI have a 2002 Mitsubishi and whenever I use the GPS it is always showing under 5k speed in comparison to the car's speedometer. So that means the OP was in fact 10 KPH over the speed limit according to the car's speedometer. Just pay the fine and learn the lesson.
Slow down there champ.
The OP doesn't mention any specific infringement. It could be a purely hypothetical discussion.
Good point. I take back that comment. But whoever got the fine should pay it and learn the lesson. I have been driving for 7 years and never got a single speeding fine. As long as you obey the speed limit there is nothing to worry about.
Not 100% right. It has been shown again and again, GPS is ineffective in show true real time speed. Too many variables…. and was not permissible in court in Qld in the last case I read.
But correct, nominate the driver and pay up.
@Scrooge McDuck:
Well….. OP states "It's a car, I know." Me thinks this infringement did actually happen but why the wording is ambiguous and and a little lacking in direct info, I do not know.Of course the GPS reading is effective. I know this because every time I pass the official roadside speed check the speed reading is always a perfect match.
I have a bluetooth adapter connected to the OBD2 port on my car, android phone mounted on the dash shows 101km/h as reported by the car while the speedo shows 107km/h. GPS fluctuates 99 to 102 for the same speed.
Depends on the car really. My 2001 Mitsubishi is within 1km/h at 100. In my previous car the speedo actually read about 5-7km/h too slow, so when you though doing 100, it was actually about 105-7km/h according to GPS.
I think the car standards stipulate the exact rule.
But from memory, which I have read the rule, it is cars produced after 20xx year (sorry can't remember the year) the cars speedo must show no greater than the TRUE speed or 10% less than the TRUE speed.
So it's possible your car can show the true speed.
The standard before that was simply a plus or minus 10% from true speed. So you could argue in court you thought u were traveling at 100km but your car was 10% off.
Sorry, the figures and year didn't stick in my head, just the rule change concept.
Get your speedo calibrated every 6 months and you'll speed past everyone when you do the correct speed.
There was never a standard that said actual speed could be GREATER than indicated speed. The rule is and has always been actual or up to 10% lower. The variance is to do with how different diff/gear ratios, engine speeds and wheel sizes between models/trim levels etc. now most speed readings are taken from wheel speed sensors and hence are more accurate, but there will always be a variance and greater when tyres are worn.
Tyre pressures are another factor.
Test Tickles, they say you should Never say Never. See below.
https://www.racq.com.au/cars-and-driving/safety-on-the-road/…
Until July 2006 this rule specified an accuracy of +/- 10 percent of the vehicle’s true speed when the vehicle was travelling above 40km/h.
That is, at a true vehicle speed of 100km/h the speedo could indicate between 90km/h and 110km/h.
@cloudy: I stand corrected about the rule. Maybe a more apt statement would be no manufacturer would be silly enough to show more than road speed.
I do think its rather stupid, but I was glad to know my memory of what I read wasn't a figment of my mind :)
all company registered cars have much higher fines as you need to nominate the driver, in NSW if you don't nominate a driver after 3 company fines you will get a fine for not nominating drivers of company cars.
Once a driver is nominate a new fine is issued to them.
That's only the case if the company fails to disclose the actual driver because companies can't accrue demerit points.
And let's face it, why shouldn't a company be forced to disclose the driver where someone has done something wrong? I'm more than certain before this legislation was brought into play that plenty of people would have escaped speeding fines, drink driving convictions and possibly worse because the driver wasn't physically apprehended at the time and couldn't be positively identified after the fact.
How could they have escaped drink driving convictions?
I know VIC is weird, but they have drink driving cameras now?
Can't say I've heard of drink driving cameras as such, but what I'm referring to are situations where there might be a pursuit that's been called off or where the vehicle has been dumped and the driver has done a runner.
Companies face tougher penalties for employees who break road rules
VicRoads' Julian Lyncolgn said the increase was about keeping unsafe drivers off the road after 2012 figures showed there were 8000 outstanding infringement notices involving companies worth nearly $16 million.
"The offending drivers not only get away without paying an infringement, there is no impact on their demerit points," Mr Lyncolgn said. "This means unsafe drivers continue to use our roads when they could have lost enough points to lose their licence
Seems perfectly reasonable for the State Governments to do this.
Was probably posted as a bargain when first introduced.
In QLD, it is cheaper, think it is around $800+ if over 5KM, go higher if exceed by more KM. If driver is nominated, it is roughly 20% of the company fines, plus demerit points. The govt is installing more and more cameras in the name of safety, but I am not so sure that is the real reason.
Yep, in Victoria, apparently doing 105 in a 100KPH zone in a company registered car, will get you an Infringement Notice for $3109
Goodness, wouldn't it be good if there was some sort of device within the car that could tell you how fast you are going!
That called GPS Tracking.
Silly Daddy Pig. Its the speedometer.
Oh of course! Thank you Peppa!
Not 100% right. It has been shown again and again, GPS is ineffective in show true real time speed. Too many variables…. and was not permissible in court in Qld in the last case I read.
Forget technology, it can help yes, but it can & does fail. The only device in the vehicle to truly trust is you, the driver.
The only device in the vehicle to truly trust is you, the driver.
Do you have some kind of Super power to determine speed? Or are you that gifted that you can calculate the distance you are traveling over time in your head in real time, all while driving?
Or do you rely on devices to do the calculation ie. speedometer?
@Ughhh:
Ouch, so touchy - the pettiness of some. What is your grief? Sarcastic, grumpy, you don't understand or something else entirely? Do you have anything constructive to add?Ok, just for you, I shall simplify and to use many more words just to eliminate any guesswork.
Amoungst all the electronic aids that are available to AID the driver, and when you are speeding and or caught speeding, the speedometer you mention, does not, will not, can not ever decide what speed to do, or by how much to go over the posted speed limit.
Unless of course your vehicle has futurist technology that has never and will never fail.Only people, not tech', you and your brain - the driver - controls the accelerator. Technology is what we use to help a driver determine that speed.
Remember that old nugget, people kill people, not guns…..same thing.
Now that I have wasted another minute of my time on this…….
You don't seem to understand that Speedometers are technology and they can fail or give you wrong information.
His point is, if you don't know what speed you're driving at, how do you know if you're above or below the posted speed limit? You the person might be in control of the accelerator, but how do you know what speed you are travelling at if you ignore technology?
YOU don't know what speed you're travelling at. You need to TRUST that the technology is giving you correct information. You cannot just dismiss technology and say that YOU are entirely responsible for your speed. Because unless you have some super human senses, you can't tell the difference between 90kph, 100kph or 110kph with any real accuracy.
Wow, bad time of the month? So angry and defensive.
Apart from completely missing my point, some ridiculous assumptions you've made there. No grief on my part, nor the grumpiness expressed in your reply/rant. Sorry you're angered so easily lol
Also, what geofellis said.
It would be great if they worked out a way to calculate engine revolutions vs gear ratios - actually, even if we had a way to monitor just how many times the wheel was to spin, against the expected size of the wheel. Id call this device a 'speedometer' or 'speedo' for short.
We could even estimate how many Kilometers you would travel every hour!
So close……a simple transmission mounted gear and cable driving a dash mounted driven worm gear plus pulsed needle (olden mechanical), and transmission mounted transducer/sensor to electronic pulse reader, converted to motor and pulsed needle or digital in modern vehicles.
You still need to measure that against the (expected) size of wheels (calibration)
Hopefully one day, technology will reach those fantastic heights! What an age that will be! Truly the stuff of science fiction.
My business has a fleet of cars and a few employees. We have log books. You think the running sheet is filled out properly when someone knows they got a fine? Never, have to pay the company fine. It seems to go up as well. Contest it, take it to court, becomes legal fees and then a tax deduction.
You think the running sheet is filled out properly when someone knows they got a fine?
This problem is easily solved with technology.
http://www.fleetcutter.com/ that's just the fist one I found on google. Might be overkill for your business, but it seems like there's a company offering a SaaS solution for business of all sizes these days.
That's kinda your job to make the sure logbooks ARE filled out properly. This type of scenario is exactly why laws like this are in place, ignorance is no excuse.
ignorance is bliss. Pay the fine and write it off on the books. the "law" as you say allows this as an avenue and government doesn't care because it becomes revenue.
Hey if you wawnt to go paying 10x the fine be my guest, what's that saying about a fool and their money? :D
@Gronk: Someone just want to pay 10x the fine in order to stay on the road, it's a question of being a fool or sticking on public transport.
Correct… Each time you fail to nominate a driver, the next fine is increased!!!
You need some GPS logging on your cars, from this location data of the day, you should be able to work out the driver ;)
$3109 only? Think about it. Rich assholes can drive without fear of traffic cams as long as they have a "company car".
Nominate a driver or pay.
Rich assholes can drive without fear of traffic cams as long as they have a "company car".
Is there a discount for cash? ;)
Is there a discount for cash? ;)
Only if you get pulled over by a patrol car. They don't call it 'on the spot fine' for nothing…
Can you pay with your CC and get reward points?
That if the company pays the fine, not a driver. I give the company a great deal with an incentive to check company cars out to a person otherwise, people would be speeding in them all the time. it same in Queensland.
Reminds me of being in primary school.
If no one puts their hands up for doing it then we will all suffer for it - there goes our Xmas party budget.
I've had a situation where the driver has been identified - it was his company car and part of package so it couldn't be anyone else as no one else drives it…. and he asked if he could pay the company fine rather than be nominated as the driver as he was on his last demerit point.
Maybe we could make threads for all the other fines too
I get the impression the OP either is the driver, the company, or is very close to one or both, not clear…strange.
Why is it so difficult….nominate the driver. Have all company car keys secure and signed for, and install dash cams.
Log books, employee dairy plus GPS tracking will all together prove exactly who, what, where, and when.Then remind/teach them the Road Rules. Maximum 100 is exactly that. Maximum. Same as when you pay for something, that is the maximum you will pay. Business Law, Company Rule, Road laws, there were here before you or me.
It is now, simply conditions of employment to follow these procedures.
"While I don't have a fundamental problem with this, it's just another government pig in a suit." Fundamentally but you still call them out as pigs? Really? Australia has a freely elected form of government. If you do not like it, go away.
If you don't like the traffic fines, don't drive. You are in the best country in the world, I served under our Flag and whether I agree you or not, like you or not, as you live here in Australia, I still will not call you out as a pig in a suit.The first point you brought up was fine, your next, was not so good. Just my opinion.
Just because you do not understand why or do/don't agree with this Government policy on company cars/fines, does not make the Government wrong. There are as usual many many unbeknown to us reasons why some strange to understand rules are in place, so find out first before calling the Government out on this and such alike.
doctordv8 Do you work in a job that employs PEOPLE? It's the one variable that you haven't allowed for in all of the above.People have bad days; or they are forgetful; or the want revenge; or they've left their brain at home; or they just had a fight with their significant other or ex or their kids; or they are just not very intelligent; or their job gives them a company vehicle (eg a traddie) and they just don't care. You should've put the above in dot-points - it reads like that! But nothing is ever as simple as dot points when it has to be actioned/obeyed/delivered when it is given to "people".
Errr, yes, as most of us do. As for even more experience on the subject, I have also employed people that drove my company vehicles. When I was an employee I followed the company rules and paid the price when/if I didn't. After a few years in the Military we all learnt to take our work and responsibilities seriously and gave 100%, as I still do today.
Mistakes in my trade injure, maim and kill people, as do many other companies line of business. I take my work no matter who it is for as serious and I accept and take responsibility with a full understanding and respect for my Duty of Care. I do not accept your reasoning as an excuse and dot points do not change the facts.
It is obviously a serious issue otherwise the fines would not be so much higher - agree or not, it is everyone's responsibility to drive to the Road Rules.
Do you work in a job that employs PEOPLE? It's the one variable that you haven't allowed for in all of the above.People have bad days; or they are forgetful; or the want revenge; or they've left their brain at home; or they just had a fight with their significant other or ex or their kids; or they are just not very intelligent; or their job gives them a company vehicle (eg a traddie) and they just don't care. You should've put the above in dot-points - it reads like that! But nothing is ever as simple as dot points when it has to be actioned/obeyed/delivered when it is given to "people".
Spot on.
Also there is a proven formula: speeding=accidents.
Then there is part 2: Accidents at speed = death.
Many deaths are people that weren't behind the wheel, so 'A' takes the risk and breaks the law and 'B' dies.
Just another argument for traffic laws.
I know it hurts when you receive a fine, but its a different kind of pain than losing your legs.
WA not so bad, they only double the fine for a company car with no nominated driver,
i think its a good package, the govt gets double the money which is what they are after and driver keeps demerit points, win win.NT its only 5 times the drivers amount
I think its perfectly legitimate process but thats just me
On top of the increased fines, I think companies should also accumulate demerit points and if they exceed the limit all company vehicles are off the road for x period of time. If a company cannot keep good records then they should suffer the consequences.
This system is just silly.
The CAR should have the demerit points. As soon as the car accumulates 12 points, its gets towed out to sea to provide shelter for fishes.
Only if it self-driving.
So get 10 x $2000 cars and not worry about speeding ever then? Bargain.
Who's silly now? Please, do not ever consider law maker as your career.
Register a new business. Wind up the old one. No fine
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Wouldn't be a car, more like a HC vehicle.