Next to where I live is a private, run-down pet shop that sells birds and cages which is guarded by a fairly big dog.
I've once entered the back of the shop with the excuse of browsing and saw over 500 city pigeons flapping around.
I also noticed that at times he lets a portion of the pigeons go in the air and when they come down, more wild pigeons follow and get caged.
The bigger concern is that every week, droves of people come at night and buy these in like a private auction in big batches and they put the flapping pigeons in a car and drive off fast. I'm thinking these are sold for meat, can you eat these pigeons of cooked well? Not that i'm interested because they're dirty but a lot of people seem to be buying them, perhaps cheaper than chicken breast?
Eating City Pigeons
Last edited 13/03/2017 - 12:59
Comments
"That would be a giant pigeon to have the same size breast."
True, but the do have quite a lot of breast meat, and are a lot larger than qail, another popular food bird. Pigeon is eaten in many places, theo epicures prefer "squabs", which, like chicken sold for roatsing/frying, are 6 week old birds.
I once worked in an inner city shop with a pigeon nest in a low tree behind it. Every six weeks or so the black-dressed elderly lady from the deli next store would wander out to it, harvest the [usually]four chicks, and let the birds lay a fresh lot.
Fake quail meat?
This sounds so bizarre.
I've eaten game pie a long time ago that had pigeon in it, it was delicious.
Yeah but those are the wild pigeons that ideally would feed on seeds, root and insects.
Most of the City ones eat shit off the floor and live their live in pollution
Still, more nutritious than than a Woolies sausage.
Rats with wings.
Id be reporting this guy to the the F****** RSPCA
absolutely.
How but, under what circumstance? he can say im selling them as pets?
You just have to voice your concerns. They will investigate. If he is just selling them no problem (if that's legal)
Why? Unless they're being sold for something like bird fighting, how is eating them any different to eating beef? If anything its better
If you're that curious OP, maybe you should try tailing one of these cars, see where it leads you
On the face of it, it seems akin to eating roo.
saw over 500 city pigeons flapping around
Did you count them?
There are HEAPS in those big-ass cages that you usually put the exotic parrots
Of course he did…..counted all the wings and divided by 2.
Serious question - what part of the above description is 'cruel' exactly?
I don't know why you got negged… o.O
Me either.
But I got 7 up and 7 down so I guess it all works out in the end.
I guess some people think that catching and selling (possibly for meat) wild animals to be cruel. If that is the case the RSPCA better get down to the local rivers and beaches because those pesky fishermen are committing thousands of acts of cruelty each day.
Good detective work. I think that as you are as close you may want to take some recordings and then report.
Hope the birds are OK but this does sound sinister.
yes but again, report what?
RSPCA come out and he greets them with "Hi im selling birds under Pet License ABCD" then what?
I guess only if I record the people coming at night when it's dark and buying a shit load of these flapping aroundI guess recording the hundreds of birds going into the cars. They deal with animals a lot so they would probably know what his end goal is.
"Where did you get those birds?"
Just because you have some license doesn't mean you can catch and sell random pigeons lol
Trainee suicide bombers perchance?
Maybe not - these chickens come home to roost…
Alright that's enough forum for me today. Back to the bargains.
i usually eat doves
Sounds like he's doing a public service.
Homing pigeons?
Tuppence a bag.
Muscle is sterile, so it should be safe to eat, but I don't envy anyone having to prep a dirty ass pigeon.
Yeah pigeons are quite 'muscley'.
Once at uni, one of these flew in and it kept flying at the glass window with a huge thud. Like throwing a soccer ball at the windowMuscle is sterile
Source?
Whole healthy muscle is considered 'sterile.' However, prepping can introduce bacteria into cut surfaces, which requires cooking or ceviche.
But aren't there blood capillaries within muscle?
Blood can certainly carry pathogens.
And besides the point about sterility, other harmful substances could be present…
@Scrooge McDuck: Not just capillaries, you'll see transverse sections of larger vessels. However, all carcasses are bled out on hooks at the abattoir. Secondly, yes, 'harmful substances' can be present, it's why meat gets recalled over things like FMD. For healthy animals however, muscle is considered sterile. It's the prep and transport steps which introduces pathogens.
'For healthy animals however…'
That's the point peeps are trying to make above Strand. There is no guarantee whatsoever that these birds are healthy, if they are just being caught 'randomly' in suburbia. They are a completely unknown/unregulated entity.
Incidentally, in the past some councils (etc.) have tried poisoning pigeons, to reduce numbers. I don't think there's currently any of that going on, but if they did resume the practice, I doubt they'd publicise the fact in an effort to warn anyone who may be eating them.
On the legalities of it, I think in NSW the dude would need some sort of hunting license, and if they are selling what they hunt, I think they would need some kind of commercial hunting license.
I'm not sure though, but this is an interesting thread, so I'm going to find out. Someone below alludes to some info available re hunting etc. derived from the NSW government, but I note that it applies to native Australian birds, which 'standard city pigeons' (Columba livia) are not.
Where's the shop and what's the shop name?
villawood nsw
Maybe he is running a postal service? The pigeons serve local areas, and those guys picking up pigeons take them for inter-state deliveries?
Oh for the dove of god! (They're actually doves aren't they?)
I don't see a problem with this I fully support mass culling of city pigeons.
If it's wild pigeons it's another story but this is the same pigeons that leaves white bomb on cars, houses, pathway, roofs, roads. Have you seen pigeon shit rain? It's poisonous and councils spends tax payers money setting up anti bird spikes and cleaning up.
The abundance of food we throw out is the reason why the huge growth in pigeon population. They have little to no predators in urban area. Perhaps a kitty will catch one or two fat lazy pigeons but they are out there in massive populations.
Like bats, these birds are also great at spreading diseases such as the H5N1 super evolving influenza.
This pet shop guy is doing a great service. He's cleaning up the city, by keeping the birds population down. This is what we should do since its a problem we have created.
OK sweet he may be doing a community service of culling them, but are they actually edible is the question?
Yes. 40 million diners in Asia can't be wrong. It was only one of the many (not usual fare for Australians) that I tried living over there teaching….and was very nice thank you very much.
Sorta tastes like chicken….not. It is all in the sauce………
'… these birds are also great at spreading diseases such as the H5N1 super evolving influenza.'
That is simply erroneous sensationalism/absolute BS. What is your evidence for that? Or did it just 'sound good' when you made it up? Here's a scientific peer-reviewed study suggesting that what you are saying is rubbish:
It evolves quickly, one minute Tamiflu works next it's totally useless. The Japanese study you linked is highly controlled research done in lab environment does not reflect what's happening in the wild. It only needs to 'jump' across a few species of birds to evolve quickly and become compatible with pigeons.
" and become compatible with pigeons."
Given that the normal transmission is Ducks —> Pigs —-> Humans, then if what you say is true, we shouldn't be eating bacon.
I refuse to live in a world where one cannot eat bacon.
'… one minute Tamiflu works next it's totally useless.'
It's common knowledge that influenza viruses (including H1N1 strains) 'evolve quickly' (though I suggest 'mutate' would be a more appropriate word to use in this context, for semantic reasons). No one disputed that, and that is why we need to get a new flu vaccination each year.
Also, your claim that 'one minute Tamiflu works' is bogus. In fact, your second statement about it being totally useless is closer to the truth, all of the time. If you happened to be taking it as a preventative measure before you actually became infected, then it might actually do you some good. But that is not how it is intended to be used, or how it is marketed/distributed/prescribed. The fact is, the evidence shows that if you take Tamiflu after you have been pathologically/definitively diagnosed with influenza infection ( of any kind), it will be next to useless.
So the claim that 'one minute it works' is baseless, based on all reliable evidence to date.
I don't think you should be eating them. They'd end up with lots of heavy metal in their system (like lead, etc etc).
Like in London or in Seoul, scientists found that the pigeons living nearer to city centre ended up with higher level of lead, zinc and cadimum.Not exactly something you want in your meal or yourself.
Though who knows, it might be different in Australia or in less urbanised part of Australia.
If the pigeons have coloured plastic rings on their feet then the pet shop is running a RACING PIGEON LOFT. There are registered racing pigeon clubs in Sydney and regional areas, as well as overseas. Lofts can have anything from 10 to 500 pigeons (even more). It is normal for pigeon fanciers to buy boxfuls of pigeons for breeding or racing. And no, fanciers do not eat their pigeons. And racing pigeons are different from feral city pigeons.
This comment is your answer ^^^
City pigeons and city rats eat from the same bowl.
You can eat city pigeon if you know what you are doing, but it is not advisable.
Chlamydia psittaci is the biggest risk.'Chlamydia psittaci is the biggest risk.'
Nice to see some actual facts cropping up at last in this thread, good one 4sure. Here is a link to a relevant study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21921110
Thorough cooking would of course kill the pathogen, but who's to say the birds will always be thoroughly/properly cooked in this scenario? Or that they won't transmit an infection before they are killed or before they are cooked?
pigeon is definitely edible, stuffed pigeon is a delicacy in egypt and tastes amazing.
though you wouldn't eat wild pigeons of the street. typically you'd raise them on clean & fattening food.When I lived in Jilin City China we went to a restaurant that was famous for its pigeon. Was yummy. I'd eat pigeon again. So yes you can eat it no problem. You can eat anything that was once a living creature after the many experiences I had travelling Asia.
Notice there are no pigeons in cities of China?
None on the streets, but some on the dinner tables, apparently.
Everytime I pass a particular Chatswood restaurant window, I wonder what "Forbidden City Meat" is.
Is it Forbidden-city meat?
Or forbidden city-meat?
This thread has shed some light on the answer. ><
I almost got arrested trying to walk out of a supermarket with free range-eggs. :)
Silly duffer!
They're just eggs which have a bit more room in the carton. :P
Lol at the 'report them to the Rspca’ comment/er and the plussers.
chinese export of our pigeons
It's (probably) fine to catch and eat them. Wouldn't want to pay much for them though…
Have to ensure you put them down humanely. Not just for the birds benefit. Wouldn't want to end up like the Sydney fish monger who got slapped a $1500 fine for cutting up a lobster while it was still kicking around.
Pigeon tastes pretty okay grilled if marinated right. Something like this https://khamphanetamthuc.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/2.jpg. Of course the wild ones are better due to the food they eat, and the age matters as well. Birds are good. Passerines on the grill or fried is reallly nice though it's a very small bite. When I was in Vietnam we had a big tree and garden with plenty of them. One day my uncle shot a few down, cooked and gave me some. My grandmother didn't like what happened, but the 10-year-old me thought otherwise after a few bites.
Some lizards are good, wild boars are nice and so are deer. And then you have snakes, eels, some insects etc.
Whether it is legal to kill and eat them is another story. I would check with the animal protection (not sure how it's called here) if I were you. If it's not allowed then those guys need to be reported. Trying different food is a joy, but it shouldn't go against the law.
I have tried and mostly enjoyed everything you listed here, plus bat, dog etc and more.
I found in Asia and in particular Thailand, it is more how it is cleaned and then the sauce, that makes these exotic treats taste so darn good.
Next time you go back to Vietnam, take me in your suitcase please.
dog
Faarrkkk that..
'Whether it is legal to kill and eat them is another story.'
Interestingly, another story is whether once they have been caught, it is legal or illegal to release them again (as the guy in question is reportedly doing, regularly). This is because they are in fact introduced/declared pests in many jurisdictions, and as such, it is illegal to release them into the Australian 'wild' (/environment). An analogy I recall from when I was growing up is that it was perfectly legal to catch a carp, but it was completely illegal to throw it back into the water alive. By law, you were required to retain possession of it, or kill it.
Why report him? He's doing us a service?
Ok, found the following stuff. Pigeon - Squab - is safe and legal to eat and has been for centuries all over the world, with not to many places abstaining. It is more a cultural reason, not a scientific reason for not consuming them. Clean birds are clean birds no matter what where when if done properly.
The calories in Pigeon Meat per 100g(1cut) is 141 calories. Pigeon Meat is calculated to be 141Cal per 100 grams making 80Cal equivalent to 56.74g with 21.8g of mostly protein、5.1g of fat、0.3g of carbohydrates in 100g while being rich in vitamins and minerals such as Vitamin B2 and Pantothenic Acid.
Plus the Legal blurb……
An Excerpt from the NSW Department of Primary Industries.
"A game hunting licence is not required for hunting the animals listed in this Part on private land, and accordingly is only required if the animals are living in the wild on public land—see section 17 of the Act"
Pigeons fall under this Category. Here is the full page. http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/hunting/what-can-i-hunt
WTF is Squab?
You could pick up your phone and say: OK Google, or Hi Siri, what is squab? Or type squab in a search box. Young domestic pigeon FYI.
How can you eat a baby pigeon, its all bone
It is the official term for Pigeon as a type of meat.
'It is the official term for Pigeon as a type of meat.'
This is completely false. Pigeon meat is pigeon meat. The word 'squab' specifically refers to a young unfledged (not fully developed/not yet adult) pigeon.
With all due respect, it seems perhaps you should do a bit of fact checking before posting 'information' to a wider audience doc?
@GnarlyKnuckles:
Did I say….Pigeon? Sorry I meant to say Pigeon……the same as you just said…Pigeon.I did the research, and I did say correctly. Squab is Pigeon Meat, as referred to in the terms of pigeon as meat for consumption, which was in context.
Yes young meat, but I did not specify any age, as that was not the question.So, Squab is - pigeon meat. You can see for the web site link previously and again now for your benefit I have done research and these are not my opinions, but readily available Pigeon, cooking etc & Government official information web pages.
http://www.pigeonsformeat.com/index.php/utility-pigeons/4-wh… Squab refers to a young unfledged Pigeon. In other words, a Pigeon that cannot yet fly. The word has come to refer specifically to very young Pigeons, less than 30 days old, which are large enough to be used for meat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squab_as_food In culinary terminology, squab is a young domestic pigeon, typically under four weeks old,[1] ***** or its meat. ****
The meat is widely described as tasting like dark chicken. The term is probably of Scandinavian origin; the Swedish word skvabb means "loose, fat flesh".[2] It formerly applied to all dove and pigeon species, such as the wood pigeon, the mourning dove, and the now-extinct passenger pigeon,[3][4] and their meat. More recently, squab meat comes almost entirely from domesticated pigeons.https://www.dartagnan.com/what-is-a-squab.html Squab are young pigeons that have never flown. For thousands of years, they have been a favorite meal for every stratum of society throughout the world. They were unequivocally the first domesticated poultry, even preempting chicken.
https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/21322… There has been a gradual development in the Australian table pigeon industry since its introduction from overseas some years ago….Young pigeons bred for meat are known as squabs….While several breeds and varieties of pigeons are available in New South Wales, the most popular and perhaps the best for squab production are the White King and Red Carneau.
http://pigeonsformeat.com/ Elegant restaurants serve Squab (young pigeon) to wealthy patrons, and charge a horrendous amount for the meal. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Pigeons helped many families make it through the Great Depression, because they could raise them at so little cost.
With all due respect…..you may apologize anytime…….You have a great week end now ya hear.
Erm… you were quite simply, wrong.
The guy asked 'what is squab', and your answer was 'It is the official term for Pigeon as a type of meat.'
That is like (incorrectly) implying that 'veal' is a term that can be used to refer to any meat from a cow. It is simply false. There's nothing more I can say on this, except that perhaps you are missing a few fundamentals re English expression.
Peace out, and take care with your English expression in future before attempting to supply any more advice to the public.
Hi doc. re:
'Pigeons fall under this Category.'
Can you please supply a link to a relevant NSW gov. page that specifically mentions pigeons? Note that the standard pigeons that plague suburbia are not Australian natives, and I strongly doubt that it is legal to 'hunt' any of the native Australian pigeon species without a license (or, I suspect, even with a license) on your own property or otherwise.
I note this text on the page at the link you supply:
In this section:
Game and pests
Hunting native game birds in NSW
Bowfishing for Carp
Night time pig hunting on public land
Be a responsible pig doggerNote that suburban pigeons in NSW (Columba livia) do not fall under any of these categories.
For ye who maybe needs help……. Given the shop is on private land…..the following I believe has the facts you requested.
From….. http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/
The ingredients commonly used in formulating pigeon rations, and their analysis, are given in Table 1. … Table 2. Suggested pigeon ration. Ingredient Autumn/winter (kg). Spring/summer (kg). Wheat 15 8.
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/213221…
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/hunting/game-and-pests ….Non-indigenous game animals (Part 1)…..
Pigeons….Common Bronzewing Pigeon (Phaps chalcoptera) Crested Pigeon (Ocyphaps lophotes).(Part 2) Non-indigenous animals Feral Pigeon (Columba livia)
Plus….
Part 2 - Non-indigenous animals (licence required to hunt on public land only)
Note : A game hunting licence is not required for hunting the animals listed in this Part on private land, and accordingly is only required if the animals are living in the wild on public land-see section 17.Cat. Dog (other than dingo). Goat. Fox. Hare. Rabbit. Pig. Common Starling (Sturnus vulgaris). Common or Indian Myna (Acridotheres tristis)
AND YOUR……Feral Pigeon (Columba livia)
I am not saying I know all and final on the question the OP raised, I am answering further questions raised in replies on eating, hunting, selling etc, but I can research as it appears many don't or can't.
When I say 'I think or I doubt' I am assuming and it is my opinion. When I say with conviction and websites, it is readily available fact(proven I hope) via research.
I personally would catch and eat, no hesitation if it is legal and safe. I would also breed pigeons and sell the young bird as whole or prepped (squab) if legal to do so in Qld, but I am not is a position to do so.
You have a great week end now ya hear.
Potentially, the most informative/relevant text from the numerous (mostly irrelevant) webpages you have alluded to is the text below, copy/pasted from http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/hunting/hunting-licences
Hunting licences
Exemptions
You are not required to hold a NSW game hunting licence if you are:
1 hunting rabbits, foxes, feral goats, feral pigs, hares, feral cats or wild dogs (other than dingo) on private land.
2 hunting on any land you own or occupy. This exemption also applies to members of your household and your employees (this exemption does not apply if you are hunting native game birds).However, this text/webpage/information is highly ambiguous. For example, it is certainly not legal to 'hunt' ANY native Australian reptiles (or amphibians) at all on your own property without a license, yet 'clause#2' above falsely implies that it is. Taking it even further (to a 'silly extreme'), it is not legal to hunt humans 'on any land you own or occupy without a license'.
This leads me to believe that clause 2 is meant to be interpreted with reference to clause#1. In other words, I suggest that clause #2 is only intended to apply to 'rabbits, foxes, feral goats, feral pigs, hares, feral cats or wild dogs (other than dingo)'; as mentioned in clause #1.
That is my interpretation of the information available on the websites you have supplied/alluded to.
I would be interested in your opinion/s on this, doc.
Cheers
If they are homing pigeons he might be re-selling the same flock of 20 birds to different suckers 2-3 times a week!
provided that the birds manages to escape
Maybe he started off 2 months ago with a flock of 50 homing pigeons!
I don't know of any 'run-down' pet shops in Cabramatta but I do know of a restaurant that serves pigeon and quails there. And also I'm starting to see less pigeons around here too. New side jobs for young international 'uni' students who come here to work at the restaurants I think. LOL - Catching live pigeons for roasting! haha
this guy is in villawood
OK, I'd like to know if there's any compelling reason why I can't shoot the pigeons in my back yard and eat them.
That would be a giant pigeon to have the same size breast. Maybe they end up as nuggets? :)
There was a case of some people scooping up London pigeons years ago.
Maybe you have a scoop story there, if you don't end up as a stool pigeon, hahaha.