Ethics of a Bargain: Where do you Draw the Line? POLL

The Wololo Wombat on 06/03/2017 - 00:46
Last edited 06/03/2017 - 00:49

I'm interested to hear how people approach the ethical conundrum that we are sometimes faced when hunting for a bargain.

I realise that getting a good deal sometimes involves 'bending the rules' a little (though not all the time!)

I've tried to come up with a hierarchy of bargain conundrums. Several situations, each one more dubious than the last! I realise this is incomplete and imperfect (the herracry is subjective to my point of view!) but it's a start.

The question is, where do you draw the line!

  1. Buying additional (low cost) items with a given purchase in order reach the 'free shipping' threshold
  2. Exploiting an obvious pricing error
  3. Using a discount code that you know was not intended for you/general use
  4. Keeping a coupon you've just redeemed, because the person at the cash register never asked to see it (or never took it from your hands)
  5. Using a VPN (or proxy) to obtain overseas (discounted) pricing
  6. Creating multiple accounts (or similar) to exploit a 'new user' discount
  7. Creating multiple accounts (or similar) to earn free credit/obtain a free product
  8. Purposefully incorrectly scanning items (e.g. fruit) at self-serve checkouts to show a lower unit price
  9. Intentionally neglecting to pay for an invoice (at least until you have been pestered several times)
  10. Thieving items that are left unsecured/out in the open

If you disagree with my hierarchy, or having something to add, please discuss in the comments!

I personally draw the line at number 7. That's the point at which I feel I am abusing the generosity of a company (offering free products, or credit). While I have friends who delete the 7/11 app to obtain daily free coffee or always travel with a new airBnB account to obtain the sign-up credit, I can't bring myself to do it. Why? Because I feel that the exploitation of giveaways in this manner creates a disincentive for other companies to do the same (for marketing purposes), and as a result, everyone loses (well, except for those who abuse it!)

Poll Options

  • 0
    1: (I draw the line at the free shipping threshold)
  • 1
    2: (I draw the line at pricing errors)
  • 0
    3: (I draw the line at discount codes not intended for me)
  • 0
    4: (I draw the line a keeping coupons)
  • 7
    5: (I draw the line at VPNs)
  • 18
    6: (I draw the line at fake, 'new' accounts to obtain discounts)
  • 8
    7: (I draw the line at fake, 'new' accounts for free credit or products)
  • 60
    8: (I draw the line at incorrectly scanning products)
  • 1
    9: (I draw the line a neglecting to pay invoices)
  • 10
    10: (I draw the line at thieving)
General Discussion

Comments

  • cnmarine on 06/03/2017 - 00:55
    +2

    I draw the line at risk>benefit

  • The Wololo Wombat on 06/03/2017 - 00:59
    +1

    I realise I should have added a 'I'm OK with all of these' option! Hopefully, no one is actually O.K. with blatant theft though!

  • altomic on 06/03/2017 - 01:20
    +7

    I draw the line at time>benefit

  • Cheeper on 06/03/2017 - 02:27
    +18

    Incorrectly scanning is thieving.

    • cypher67 on 06/03/2017 - 09:33
      -4

      If I didn't have to scan the items myself vs lining up for 10 minutes, this wouldn't even be a thing.

      • Cheeper on 06/03/2017 - 11:32
        +4

        Does not justify theft..

  • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2017 - 07:44
    +1

    I draw the line at is the deal morally correct
    Stealing / promoting fraud is something ozbargain should take seriously given its public facing exposure

    Just remember people you might get away with something once or twice but patterns of behaviour tend to land people in hot water

    • The Wololo Wombat on 06/03/2017 - 08:55
      +1

      ?? You've stated you draw the line at 'morally correct'

      But that is quite a subjective statement! What's morally incorrect for you could be correct for someone else.

      That's the whole purpose of this post. Asking the question, what is morally correct for you?

      Can you explain where you draw the line specifically?

      • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2017 - 11:02
        -1

        If I need to explain it then that answers the question completely

        Anything that's illegal really to summarise it
        Too much of it tbh

  • lupiter on 06/03/2017 - 08:20
    +4

    I have no problems with 1 or 5.

    2 & 3 depend on the store, might do it for a big store, wouldn't do it for a small/independent one.

    I never use physical coupons so 4 doesn't come up.

    6 & 7 I'm generally too lazy to do, if I did, I'd limit my account creation to 2 (probably more likely to happen by accident when I forget I signed up before).

    8-10, that's stealing. No.

  • na8an on 06/03/2017 - 08:31

    Keen to know about point 5 -
    "Using a VPN (or proxy) to obtain overseas (discounted) pricing"

    Is this applicable for flight tickets?

    • The Wololo Wombat on 06/03/2017 - 08:57

      Of course! At least in my mind. Whether it's video game, kitchenware, a flight or Netflix….

      Why should the product or service matter?

      • na8an on 07/03/2017 - 08:27

        Would you be able to elaborate, I use VPN hola pulgin for streaming USA TV series apart from that I don't have a clue of using VPN.

    • SirFlibbled on 06/03/2017 - 12:36
      +1

      I have no problem with exploiting price segmentation. It exists to maximise their profits, not save me money.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2017 - 09:10

    i dont have any line to draw

    • The Wololo Wombat on 06/03/2017 - 09:31

      Can you explain? Do you believe it's morally O.K to steal? Or do you realise it's not morally correct but disregard your convictions?

      • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2017 - 09:42

        too much effort to steal low value items.
        and its too hard to steal high value items

        • The Wololo Wombat on 06/03/2017 - 09:47

          But if it's unsecured and you are sure you won't get caught? Will you take it?

        • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2017 - 10:18
          -1

          @The Wololo Wombat:
          yes why not.
          snatch, grab and run

        • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2017 - 11:04
          -1

          @tuzii:

          My point exactly around here
          Try taking something from me and see how far you get (:

          I bet you wouldn't steal in all honesty
          Openly admiting that you do is a little pathetic tbh

  • Baysew on 06/03/2017 - 09:45

    Is there a supplementary number?

    • The Wololo Wombat on 06/03/2017 - 09:48

      For what purpose? Comment if you are different :)

  • seraphim2017 on 06/03/2017 - 09:54
    +4

    7, anything else is theft.

    Exploiting a lazy deals loopholes is one thing, and they benefit from clickbait as much as the low priced 'freebie' you get. I'd never use my daily email for one anyway, and periodically 'clear' aliases to make way for new ones with less spamming on them.

    Scanning different items is theft, as is not paying invoices (I'll hold off paying until work is done to satisfaction but that's different, that's to keep tradies honest and make sure they do a good job, lesson learned early in life with a cheaper job, NEVER pay until work is ok! But they always get paid for the value of work done).

    Picking things up that are unsecured? Also theft.

    Buying from abroad, using a VPN no different to buying any other grey import really is it? why should Netflix tell me what I can and can not watch, I'd rather watch a genuine version and pay than torrent (take) it and pay nothing, my location when viewing it has no bearing (i.e it's none of their Damn business where I want to sit and watch it!)

    It's ozbargain, no oztheft. That's the nickname for parliament!

  • ItsMeAgro on 06/03/2017 - 10:10
    +3

    Using a VPN (or proxy) to obtain overseas (discounted) pricing

    To me, there's an element here of the seller trying to rip us off, and us just being smart enough to get around it.

    Let's say I take a holiday to the US. I walk into Walmart and buy a shirt for $5. Then they say this at the register:

    "What country are you from?"

    "…Sorry?"

    "What country are you from?"

    "Australia"

    "That'll be $10 then."

    Say I then turn around and go to a different checkout, this time saying I'm American when they ask, and avoid the discrimination, and so I get the $5 shirt for $5.

    Am I ripping Walmart off? Or am I just avoiding being ripped off by Walmart?

  • WaywardOne on 06/03/2017 - 11:21
    +2

    " (I draw the line at the free shipping threshold)"
    What about adding stuff (that you have the intention of returning) to your cart so you get free shipping.

  • xecutor on 22/11/2019 - 02:17
    -2

    Obtaining a financial advantage through deception or fraudulent (under both Commonwealth &/or State Laws) are considered to be a chargeable offense if there is sufficient evidence to identify the individual and prosecute.

    The severity of the penalties will depend on what statue or law was broken and the impact of the crime committed.
    With that being said, some of the raised scenarios are not a 'crime' but more of an ethical consideration (good/bad) and can be justified for and against. You really need to get into specifics as the below are just very generic examples.

    # Example / Scenario
    1 Buying additional (low cost) items with a given purchase in order reach the 'free shipping' threshold
    2 Exploiting an obvious pricing error
    3 Using a discount code that you know was not intended for you/general use
    4 Keeping a coupon you've just redeemed, because the person at the cash register never asked to see it (or never took it from your hands)
    5 Using a VPN (or proxy) to obtain overseas (discounted) pricing
    6 Creating multiple accounts (or similar) to exploit a 'new user' discount
    7 Creating multiple accounts (or similar) to earn free credit/obtain a free product
    8 Purposefully incorrectly scanning items (e.g. fruit) at self-serve checkouts to show a lower unit price
    9 Intentionally neglecting to pay for an invoice (at least until you have been pestered several times)
    10 Thieving items that are left unsecured/out in the open

    Neither Category
    1) Is neither unethical or considered a crime as you are meeting a set criteria in order to obtain the said threshold.

    Ethical Category
    Such example of Ethical consideration would be: 2, 4, 5

    2) As a customer you are not in control of pricing so even if there was a clear human/machine error you are not committing a crime. Many stores have written policies on incorrect pricing and how they deal with it as a term and condition of entering their store. Also covered off under standard trade practices which limits the store's liability when challenged.

    4) This is a clear ethical one as this involves your honesty and while others will blame that the 'staff member' should have followed their sales process. However, in today's electronic world coupons are no longer just on paper and can be scanned or redeemed via smartphones and don't have to be handed over like they did in the 1950s. It doesn't become an ethical matter if you continually redeem the coupon or break the stores T&Cs if the offer is only valid for a single use, as you are effectively committing a fraudulent transaction to get a financial gain.

    5) A VPN is an ethical consideration as you are not technically doing anything illegal as it is perfectly legal to use this service. Bypassing restrictions placed is not a crime (eg. Netflix) as you have to have a valid subscription and they (Netflix) allow you to use this where they have their service in many other countries (if you were to go there in person) and logon.

    Even the paying aspect of the service (Netflix) using another countries' pricing is not fraudulent as you are paying for it legally.
    Netflix has your personal information and can easily block/suspend/deny access to the service if they believe you have contridicted their terms of service contract.

    Companies should have stricter financial arrangements or further checks in place to identify credit card information and should prompt the user if it does not match the regions expected information. (eg. Australian Site, Expects AU issue Credit Card and matching customer address with card issuer information -eg. Country)

    Deception/Fraudulent Category
    The remaining numbers are considered to be in my opinion the examples of obtaining financial gain through deceptive/fraudulent purposes if you knowingly are participating to obtain a financial advantage which is considered a crime under national/state statues or laws.

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