The penalty rates for Sunday has now been reduced.
What do you guys think about it? Does it affect you?
Sunday Penalty Rates Slashed
IMadeYouReadThis on 23/02/2017 - 12:52
Last edited 23/02/2017 - 12:57 by 1 other user
Last edited 23/02/2017 - 12:57 by 1 other user
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FWA was brought in to protect the threat to the award based workers by Labor after Work Choices.
Do we need more government protection and/or regulation to stop this race to the bottom?
30 years you say? With all the outsourcing companies are doing, and all the manufacturing lost to overseas, coupled with serious consumer apathy, you are a lot more optimistic than I am.
I can't believe the number of people on here who want to join the race to the bottom.
It isn't a race you want to win!There is this protestant "I have it bad so why should anybody have it any better?" ethic which is disgraceful.
We're Aussies (I include you PR visa holders, the P is for permanent!) and we stick together to look after each other.
It isn't a win if the way we stop the boats is because nobody wants to come here anymore, because it is no better than some of our less wealthy neighbours, but I feel there is this capitulation from the government and the opposition that global business is too powerful and we must toe the line.So disappointing that we used to say the way we will afford high pay for our baristas and check out chicks is by being a smart, competitive country, but now we have decided, we can't be bothered to compete on smarts and resourcefulness - we want to start cutting wages.
Yep. Rather than following European countries and actually improving peoples quality of life they want us to follow asia and have everyone working seven days a week for peanuts.
why so many people against this ruling, it is your choice to have funs with family or work on Sunday, consumers are not paying extra premiums just because people working on Sunday. So many office people work much longer hours than retail, even unpaid working on Saturday and Sunday, why should retail get 2X, this is not fair.
you become a member to write this rubbish.
What office workers work normally on Saturday and Sunday day and nights and get no extra pay? If the business wants you to work they need to pay penalty rates and you would get higher penalty rates than the retail and hospitality workers becuase this decision only effects them. What office workers legally work more full time hours - a 40 hours week is 40 hours. And if the office staff work unpaid well they are silly - business cant force you to work unpaid.
Working unpaid on Saturday and Sunday……… hmm
Sounds like you are a professional that would have dealines to meet or just poor time management. Probably not working on weekends and earning 30-40k a year. Either that or maybe 7/11 or Dominos Pizza office worker and not a permanent resident?
"So many office people work much longer hours than retail"
But many office people are on a salary that is well above the minimum award wage too.
If you think that by dragging people down you're going to be pushed up you're sadly mistaken. The only ones who will benefit from this are the people who own businesses. Maybe when your opinion of whats fair extends to more than just holding back those you see as being worth less than you, more people will care about it.
First of all, mine is high enough and I dont need to drag down others. My point is the government should do a right thing to make a fair pay system which can benefit the society as a whole. Think about how much Australian retails are behind other developed economies, if the Sunday rate is lower than what it stands now, the businesses might open longer hours and they in facts paying the same or more salary in terms of total salary. Of course this is the ideal situation and the government needs to do something to prevent businesses gain the most from this.
IN response to Mx2 upstair, instead of attacking me like a sore loser, my salary is 80k on my second year of professional career working less than 40 hours a week. I am speaking up for people who I know and saw on news. You think they are voluntary for the extra hours, they are forced by the bosses or simply peer competitions. Tell me what is your profession and salary, I believe you are just living in your comfort zone and working in a pathetic stable job without prospect.
214189537 - Lol. Glad you do not work many hours. But others should work for less than they get now, so those that work for free, have more time to shop. We are NEVER going to agree.
Are you fishing ? Caught any ?
What about workers who already only receive 150% and 160% on sunday such as Coles Liquor, will they also be cut?
I believe that this won't apply to exist ing enterprise agreements (which I think is what you are talking about) but I expect will be reflected when they are renegotiated in years to come.
I am amazed at the some peoples comments on this topic.
"You do not have to work Sunday it's your choice."
For many people with a child and a single parent or only one parent working they have no choice, they have to work weekends to make ends meet, the penalty rates are how they get by, they do not have a choice.
There are other people in working in hospitality other than students and singles.Some peoples thinking and empathy extends no further than, to quote Joe Hockey, "Get a high paying job!"
I'm not sure how that happens when Fair Work is making the lower paying jobs pay worse.
Cut till we are prosperous!I agree. However it's not just that, but if the majority of retail/hospitality workers said they didn't want to work Sundays they would just be told "It's one of the busiest days of the week, you are needed for that rostered shift. If you can't work when we need you we will find someone else." It makes it a choice of work on Sundays or don't work at all. With bills to pay I don't see that as a choice at all.
Its disgusting. Cutting the pay of people who make the least money and work the worst hours. Unbelievable. Have they not looked at America, with its massive wealth gap, where there are people working full time who are below the poverty line and seen all the problems its causing and will cause? They want to take Australia down that road? And do we really need more broken families, depression and children with behavioural problems because people are being forced to work longer and more anti-social hours? Thats what this is all about really, the government has long wanted workers to be working longer hours for less. Its retail they went for this year, it will be everyone else sooner or later.
Maybe not the right place to ask, but what would everyone's reaction be to a system where you bid for shifts like ebay?
Here's how it would go. A new shift opens up, everyone on the roster gets an SMS
Shift: Sunday 7am - 3pm Current modifier: x3. Please respond with your bid
Then everyone responds with a bid between 1-3. After 30m, a second round of SMS's is sent to everyone who made a bid containing the lowest bid
Shift: Sunday 7am - 3pm Current modifier: x2.1
This happens once more 15m later, giving people a final chance to bid. Then, an hour after the initial text, the lowest bid is locked in, and all players are informed of their success/failure.
"Shift awarded! Sunday 7am - 3pm at x1.4 modifier. See you there"
Seems like a system like this could make things a little fairer, because penalty rates are higher in some places than they should be, but then totally missing in others like friday night.So working parents who need a fair wage to provide for their families can be undercut by an 18 year old living at home who just wants some weekend spending money?
Would you ever work for an employer that valued you so little they couldn't give you a roster?
It depends on the line of work and how many extra employees they have, that sounds like it would lead to people needing to have several jobs in cases of failed bids leaving work far more unstable.
It could also work against the employer, what happens if no one is interested at the highest rate does the employer not open or do they offer uber style surge rates?
It would likely lead to consorting between employees as well as employers finding ways to reduce rates like having fake bids to push workers lower.What a stupid idea
So many flaws I don't know where to begin……
Start with the biggest one, and work down the list
Nah, I'm sure you've already thought of them already in coming up with your "business model"
People above have commented and you have not responded, hence why it's not worth going into more detail as you can't even manage the feedback already provided.
Some of the biggest issues are already mentioned, yet you have not responded. I'll wait and see how well your system handles those before weighing in with more.
First person said something about a worker with a family - who gives a shit
Rekabkram made some more interesting points. Being valued by your employer? Again, who gives a shit.
Multiple jobs? Many people who work casual already have multiple jobs.
If noone is willing to work at the 3x rate (it can be whatever you want) then operating the business is not profitable that day, and it should not open
Consorting is possible, but thats always possible for employees through unionization, and any employer side tampering should be easily discoverable. At worst, they're working for the standard minimum wage, which they'd be getting through the week anyway.What else?
Sounds like some sort of nightmare…
I work in retail but only get 1.5% Sun and nothing extra for Saturdays. After tax I think it works out to about an extra $60.
Nearly all the people where I work are adults and I can honestly say every person that has spoken about penalty rates has said if they were removed they wouldn't work those days. No employer will put on 5 people when they can get by with 3 even with less penalties they still have superannuation to pay etc.It has to have a flow on effect you can't say that a retail workers Sunday is a normal day but not some other workers.
Public Holidays if they slowly drop it get rid of if I assume workers who have the day off will get paid nothing for the day?Fast Food workers got screwed 1.5% for a Sunday down to 1.25%
This weekend have a good look around how many places are open, how many are bustling with trade and how many are adults.
(Sorry so many things to cover :) )
So they can't cut prices but staff rates.
Australia is at crossroads now in the name of equality. For years govt policies like -ve gearing, foreign investment in housing and other subsidies have inflated living costs - now at a point where low earners like in retail can't survive on $20/hr in any capital city. And hence need for weekend penalty rates.
I also don't see many businesses surviving with these level of human costs (highest in the world). How do we expect a worker being paid $30-40 an hour, on selling $4 coffees?If overall living costs are low, no need for inflated salaries & businesses are more competitive.
I am outraged at the change on Sunday loading. Now I will be unable to afford my smashed avocados!
People just don't understand the costs involved in running a business in Australia and the wage costs are the highest % factor in small businesses here.
I don't think penalty rates should be abolished but it's either a larger tax break for small business owners or you keep rates like this at the very most.
Yeah it's a crap change for workers, but you have to give and take. When do local business owners get a fair go?The bubble has reached bursting point for Australian retail. All the closures of so many leading brands ie Marcs, pumpkin patch, American Apparrel+ dozens more in the last year. Retailers in Australia have the worst operating conditions with wages being the worst one, taxes being second and rents being close behind.
If unskilled people want these jobs at some point you've got to give a break to the people that supply those jobs to the people and the economy before these businesses close down. Without these businesses there are no retail jobs.
The majority of people couldn't care less about the small business owners in Australia that bust their ass to keep this economy going and provide these jobs. Without these businesses there would be less jobs, less spending, higher taxes and a failing economy.
If you don't wanna work weekends while your kids are at home, find another job. But if you do, remember you literally have the best wages of anyone in your position in the entire world. Literally. Then remember that the majority of businesses in Australia that are paying these wages are not making money on these days and that same majority will close their doors permanently within 2 years.
Do people honestly believe that the cafe with 5 or 6 staff being paid $50 an hour is actually making money after rent, cost of goods and things like sick pay and holiday pay + superannuation (another 9%)?
Australia's working conditions are so in favour of the employee that it's become normal to think that the point of a small business is to provide jobs to pay wages.
Well guess what? It's not, it's to make a profit for the people that put up that money and took the economic, emotional and health risks (stress) of starting a business. They are the ones that are providing the jobs to society and the tax $ to the government from every single one of those employees- why should they not be allowed to make any money on these days when they are already facing the highest wage % costs in the world!?
Penalty rates are still around. They are still enormous, still the highest in the world. There is just no discrimination between Sunday and Saturday now.
This is from a small business owner's point of view.
If you want these ridiculous wage costs put on Australian business, then you must provide more tax relief for the businesses to keep them running.Paying people $55 an hour to work in a retail food outlet is complete and utter lunacy, and that's what happens on public holidays right now in Australia. The people who pay these wages are your neighbours and community members too- don't forget that.
Yes I am. I can tell you from first hand experience that Sundays and public holidays are not money makers for the majority of small businesses.
The irony of these Sunday/penalty wage cuts is that the Labor government put the fair work commission in place. That same Fair work commission ran an independent inquiry looking at both sides of the issue. With 4 of the 5 panel members who made this decision being elected by the previous Labor government.
These 5 panel members decided, upon the findings by this investigation, that Sunday rates and Public holiday rates were too high in Australia and were detrimental to the economy and the feasibility of small businesses in Australia.
Delete comment
To use your own logic
"If you don't wanna work weekends while your kids are at home, find another job"
If you don't like paying penalty rates then stop being a business owner.
"Then remember that the majority of businesses in Australia that are paying these wages are not making money on these days and that same majority will close their doors permanently within 2 years."
I seriously doubt many businesses stay open on the weekend if they do not make a profit.
Do you really believe majority of small businesses in Australia will close within two years because they do open on weekends.Australia has the highest failure rate of small businesses in the world. This is mainly due to wage costs and rent.
Businesses in shopping centres don't have a choice about when they open or close.
Without these businesses there are no jobs. That is the ultimate reality here. This change is about making it more viable for businesses to operate on weekends, so people can work on weekends.
We are seeing a correction here on some changes that were made years ago that were simply unfair to businesses.
Workers have had it VERY, VERY good for years now. It's still shit for businesses and we still have to pay 150-175% of weekday rates, and the majority of businesses still won't make money on weekends, but this will soften the blow.Australia has the highest failure rate of small businesses in the world.
Could you please cite some references.
And also for your claim in the top level comment:
literally have the best wages of anyone in your position in the entire world.
Small businesses don't always have a choice - if you are renting a shop front in a shopping complex for example you have to follow the opening hours of the complex.
Yes, and reducing what little discretionary spending that a huge portion of the population has to spend on luxuries like going to a cafe is going to help is it? The economy is already stagnant and with wages stalled (or now to drop) and housing and cost of living rising many people have already tightened their belts and stopped spending and going out. Is this good for business? Is increasing the problem going to help? Good for business owners, they get to pay their workers less. I hope they also enjoy having fewer customers and sales.
It has nothing to do with small business it was all about the top end getting to pay less. Less in wages less in taxes, small business is just an decoy.
I think business and Government need to make up their minds.
1 minute it's the cost of payroll tax and electricity the next penalty rates. Then you see them complaining that they can't open at this time on a public holiday or Sunday so they are losing money but 5 minutes ago you were just complaining how dear Sunday is.I think it's more to do with telling us lowly workers where our place is.
the top end? Do you understand how many small businesses in Australia are affected by this?
Australia has the highest failure rate of small business in the world. The number one reason for that failure rate is the percentage of wage costs on your profit and loss summary. This is a fact.
Something had to give, and retail workers in Australia have had it sooooo good for soooo long. They still get paid a fantastic amount of 150% to 175% of the weekday rate (a weekday rate which is also the highest rate in the world for retail workers), simply because it's a Sunday.
Best post on this thread. Workers have it so good here in Aust and they don't even know it.
How anyone thinks that a person deserves to be paid $55 an hour to serve coffee and food is beyond me.
There is a misconception that if someone owns a business they must be rich or earning a lot of money. This is far from the truth. In fact, many small business owners actually earn less per hour than their staff. I am not a small business owner and never have been. My job involves working with business owners on a daily basis. I use to work with a lot of small business and now work with larger ones.
The wage costs in Australia are far too high. On aggregate it is far better to be a wage earner than a small business owner in Australia. Yes some small business owners do incredibly well for themselves but for every one of those there are 3 who are just earning enough profit for a normal yearly salary (but with much more hours put in and a ton more stress). And for every one of those there is another that is struggling to stay afloat, their account is constantly empty or overdrawn and they don't know week to week whether they will go under or not.
Even with larger business turning over $50 million dollars and are household names, they are not necessarily making money. Many of this size are actually losing money right now and digging into savings or asking banks for a lifeline.
If you think it is stressful living on a low wage week to week not knowing if you can pay your bills, it is 3 times more stressful for a small business owner going through the same thing. At least with your wage you know what you are going to get paid although you don't know exactly what your expenses will be (e.g. car breakdown etc). The struggling small business owner goes through the same thing but they actually don't know what they will get paid each week. Sometimes they earn nothing or actually lose money. I have dealt with some who are fearful a weekend of bad weather could ruin them.
Think about that next time you talk about your boss. Be grateful you get paid extremely well for what you do and appreciate that they too work hard and are not necessarily the bottomless pit of money you think they are.
So in short; an independent body of suitably qualified experts has spent 2 years taking submissions from many opposing views and made a decision. That being Sunday penalties and some others will be cut (though phased in) though not by as much as some parties were seeking. To be more informed on what was taken into account you can read the summary, or better yet the 543 pages:
https://www.fwc.gov.au/awards-agreements/awards/modern-award…It means I will advise my son not to be so flexible when being offered overtime, and start pursuing his dreams and hobbies more and take up some freelancing - he works too many long hours to have his pay cut. The young will suffer the most, they will get stuck with the hours and they need the money the most.
See I think the ones with families to feed will suffer the most but its easy to be self absorbed with our own situations. I think consumers and businesses will suffer the most as they will be left with clueless kids that dont want to make an effort to help the customer but obviously thats not all of them and a tad harsh. On the bright side there will hopefully be more jobs for kids entering the job market for the first time :)
The adults who voted this government in should have been very aware of its usual tactics, and seen it coming. The kids are starting with nothing and no idea in a world much more complex and expensive than before. My son was going to buy a house next year - before he had a family. He wanted to do things the right way. Because the world is more vicious, you may have noticed I manage my son. He is a valuable commodity, and I make sure he is valued, but I can't fight the law - well not by myself.
what has this government got to do with it though? It was a decision by the labor appointed fair work commission, who had 4 of the 5 people who make the ruling appointed under Julia Gillard's government.
At least be fair here.
SDA Union already sold us off long ago. I still pay them dues but they do not deserve it. They are not doing their job and they are pissing all the workers off. The reps they choose are like barbaric slaveowners and with management and career aspirations and absolutely no interest in fighting for workers' rights. Straight up conservative right wing union. WTF am I supposed to even do about these in bed with employer unions?
Fair work is just another bosses institution clearly. They just pretend to be neutral.
Did you get their email
The vast majority of SDA members are covered by an SDA-negotiated Agreement - this means the Fair Work Commission’s decision will not immediately impact your take home pay.
However, it will make it more difficult to negotiate around penalty rates in new SDA-negotiated Agreements in the future.
So expect to get more screwed I guess
It will not affect because they had already reduced it through their shitty deals with the employers bad rates that apply to the rest of the industry now. I never got 200% on Sundays always got 150%.
Still pisses me off that they keep attacking the wages, conditions and super of employees at the same time incentivising rental, profit based and interest income of the rich people.
Any retail food outlet that doesn't have an enterprise agreement (ie the ice cream store owned by Bob and Sarah) is paying its casual staff over the age of 19 at least $40 an hour on a public holiday. That's while also (on the same day) paying their permanent employees a full day's wages for the public holiday (and superannuation).
If Bob is in there with three 20 year old girls helping him serve, he's paying $120 an hour and also paying his full time workers their normal salary while they're at home. If Bob isn't in there and puts one of his full time workers in on the public holiday, he pays another $40 an hour plus the normal $23 an hour rate he would have paid them for working that Monday weekday (plus super).
Is Bob making any money on this day? Can't these employees get paid 25% less in a fairer system?
Australia is the only country in the world where some 20 year old kids can get paid $40 an hour for working retail food.
Australia is the only country in the world where it's possible to make $54 an hour working in retail food or at a retail clothing store.It just doesn't make economic sense.
If most ovearseas students or working holiday visa people are not on the books, I doubt kids are on the books either
So you think the majority of small businesses don't put their employees on the books? You are wrong.
It's besides the point. The point is that these are the wage costs that Australian Businesses are paying.
Bob should close on Sundays.
That's exactly what people don't understand. Overseas businesses would be laughing at how much we get paid on saturday and sundays. People work these days as normal work all the time. THere are hundreds of thousands out there working around the gloe on saturdays, sundays and weekday night sto earn a living.
THe problem is alot of us Australians are not used to living in this global age and 24/7 culture. Unfortunately such is the world: rising property prices, demand for every bit of land, and people wanting shops open 7 days a week and not paying extra on a Sunday will become the norm.
People complain they want family time on saturday and sunday, but don't forget the sad truth about humanity is alot sacrifice their sat and sundays to work in asian countries for example. They just make do to earn a living. Sadly, unless youw ant to become uncompetitive against the rest of the world Australians can no longer expect to have their cake and eat it too. Some say they won't choose to work saturdays and sundays if so, but honestly, someone else will!
Times are changing….
Yeah, thats what we want, to lower our quality of life and live like Asians.
Unfortunately that's the global life though. If you don't want to do it, someone else will. THere is enough population and gloval movement these days that frankly… someone else will do your retail job for you, for normal pay.
Our exports compete internationally now, our tourism too. If a tourist can't afford to have a meal on a sunday then eventually yes, it does come back to hurt us (in one way or another).
It's staying one step ahead. Perhaps we don't have to live like asia but by deregulating sundays we can aim to capture more of overseas dollars here, or find some better way to stay ahead of the changing times. We can't expect to stay in the good old times where you got paid double time for working on a sunday…
You can't compare working in an Asian country to working here in Australia - that's absurd.
I wasn't trying to compare the work lifestyle here, merely trying to connect globalisation on an economic level with how times are changing. A merging of what we're 'used to' here with what the reality is with global tourism and movement these days, and the whole import/export trade system. The style of living and number of people in Asia and how they operate indirectly affect us too when you follow the linkages too. It coul dbe anywhere from directly, or indirectly through their cheaper exports merely because working sunday is a normal day (overall cheaper rates than our exported goods or tourism, etc etc.)
Also remember that the Labor set up the fair work commission. This decision was made upon the findings of an independant panel.
So the panel that Labor set up, has conducted an independent inquiry, looking at both sides of the issue, and determined that it's unfair to businesses as it currently stands.And now people are saying it's somehow Turnbull's fault?
I am not a fan of Turnbull, but it's got absolutely nothing to do with him.why is this being downvoted? It's the truth. Plain and simple.
What part of this statement do people have a problem with?
People don't like facts - they'd rather argue with the wind blown out of their behind and half baked truths.
The report into the Workplace Agreement Framework by the Productivity Commission is an interesting read - not an easy read, but worth a look if people want to actually learn how they come to the conclusion reached.
The words impacting the lowest paid workers has been thrown out a lot in this thread and the news; I'm curious at the basis of that? And no besides the obvious "it makes the most noise" one.
The costs like $40+ p/h for say cafe staff has me wondering. Obviously it won't be FT hours but at what point is it reasonable or not for those given hours?
I agree, these industries have long been represented on both sides (not necessarily always well!). Take a look at the pastoral award…. An industry with no close to zero employee backing if you want to see low pay and low or non existent penalties. How about the unheard from textile workers? Take a look at the base minimum wage in the manufacturing and associates industries and occupations award. Employees in industries that can make the most noise aren't necessarily those suffering the most.
Last I looked farmer got to knock off at sunset, this is about people working to the limit of their endurance. 12, 14 and 16 hour days are a regular part of hospitality staffs life, as is extremely high pressure. This law means they cannot push my son that far anymore, and will need to hire a new person, because he was only doing those hours so he could buy a house, it will be their loss.
Farmers probably get up at sunrise…
That's the way it should be. Let the market determine what's the right wage to attract workers to come in on a Sunday. If businesses find that they can't attract anyone to work on Sunday at $30/hr maybe they'll offer $35/hr or $40. It also means for other businesses where they found double time too expensive to make a business case for opening on Sundays, they can now decide to trade and we'll be able to enjoy more services on the weekends.
Asian, Indian stores are not effected as they pay $10hr cash to foreign workers max. Only the honest are hurt, the dishonest are laughing at this small omission to christianity ~ and the joke, the sabbath is the 7th day Saturday and not SUNDAY. So your doubly screwed, work Saturday and you get paid less and then go to hell, work Sunday and get paid more and dont go to hell.
Just saying, Sunday is the 1st day of the week and has NO special significance what so ever.
Sunday, penalty rates as FAMILY DAY is a joke. Not a good one but funny none the less, the penalty rates are a SIN TAX on EMPLOYEES for making their workers work on the catholic lords day (thye made it up at that) ~ Im with the asians and indians, pay $10 cash and keep the profits!
So honoring an arbitrary day on the basis of a zombie boy, religious crusades, the holocoust and threats of annihilation from above is more important than a solid nuclear family?
150% is already a good bonus to work on a Sunday. 200% was just absurd.
This is a good move.
Finally businesses who previously closed on Sundays can open without taking a loss.
Did they change Sunday trading laws too?
What's that got to do with the price of tea on China?
I work in retail and first we only get paid 150% and not 200% on Sundays and i work every sundays and would affect me big time. And guess what i bet businesses would not be opening for longer hours neither they would be hiring more people to work on Sundays rather they would be banking all these wages and would be laughing on this stupid decision.
And guess what else why not ask childcare or family day cares should not be allowed to charge more on weekends as well. How a lay man would cope with cut in wages but things getting expensive.
A plumber would still be charging heaps more on weekends or anyone else offering service but we have to cop it. Really annoyed..I wonder if Dominos will revoke it's Sunday surcharge?
they still are getting more on weekends though. eg they are getting $33 an hour for working Sunday instead of $38 an hour, and the same job on a Tuesday is $22 an hour.
Hopefully everyone in retail just refuses to work on a Sunday.
Where the cuts should be is the cost of trades. Just paid my trades more than i paid my doctor to perform a procedure which took twice as longBut there a thousands of people out there that will gladly take a workers job if they rage quit over a 25% cut on a Sunday.
yeah plenty of uni students would kill to have a weekend job. Retail is one of the easiest to find jobs for most and I can't imagine a student doing anything else when they have uni to attend on weekdays.
It's also students who are hit the hardest with weekend job cuts. For some it could be the difference between being able to pay rent, buy a laptop for uni and buy textbooks each semester, to being unable to afford accommodation and having to eat ramen for breakfast and dinner and possibly having to stay with mom/dad
your doctor gets a government or insurance subsidy. Or did you forget that?
THere would be heaps of people willing to earn a living ona sautrday or sunday without penalty rates.. such is the global stage we operate on these days…. we unfortunately can't have the best of every worlds - family time, personal time on weekends, or large compensated wages in return.
but I'm Australian and I'm entitled!!
we'll find that the entitled 'good times' will eventually give way to a much harsher reality if people don't make the shift. unfortunately it's a big , crowded world these days, and others don't have the entitlement to goto uni 4 days a week and expect to still get a decent pay by working only sundays. It's sad from an empathetic point of view, but from a purely economic/business POV it won't end well.
Plenty of people that would work
how do you propose to cut the cost of trades when they quoted the work and you accepted the cost?!?
Penalty rates should be abolished that businesses can hire more people, and become more productive and competitive.
So using that logic, why not just pay them a few cents?
And what makes you think businesses will hire more people and not pocket the money?
If you look at countries with low wages more businesses do thrive and offer more services and for longer hours. Go to an Asian country and see the sheer amount and variety of food you can get at 3am, 5am. Not just big chains like in Aust but little independent mum and dad stores. Look at all the shopping centres that open daily to 10apm. Look at the variety of businesses that actually thrive and survive compared to here. Heck even go to the US where their minimum wages are lower and look at all the mum and dad independent stores that survive there. In Aust it's mostly the large chains that survive by bullying suppliers and negotiating custom EBAs.
I hear people complain all the time and ask why we don't have a certain business open here that is present everywhere else in the world. It's because our wages are high and it's much harder to survive here as a business owner.
I'm not saying it's correct to go down that path but I'm saying it's already evidenced everywhere else around the world. Pay less wages, get more and better services + businesses open longer hours.
Im working on weekend for years and in a process to get a new roast that will put more hours on weekend ( 10hrs each day ). So that I can compensate the bad deal they gave me a year ago, the reason was exactly the same " we can hire more people to do this newly created job".
Now with this same reason but on a higher level of authority, I just literately bend over and take it 2nd time. Im having a 2nd thought on this new roaster now …I like Australian because they are fair, but I can't really say the same about the system and some people ( as I read most of these comments ). Or another option is as a workmate suggested, do 50% less work, so that "they can put more people on" lol that is brilliant.
Who are these commissioners and for what reason under the sun they make a decision that will benefit the big company ?
Foods, petrol, rent, bills arent going down, but wage goes down. That make sense. I more than happy with the deal if I already make truck loads $$$ yearly.
One can only now how rotten the apple is after a bit… I suppose.
The funny thing is, Sydney hospitality industry is surviving on 6 month Visa staff as it is, this is not going to help them get more permanent staff at all.
I'm not sure why so many people are calling for Turnbull's head on this?
The fact (irony) of these Sunday/penalty wage cuts is that the Labor government put the Fair Work commission in place. That same Fair work commission ran an independent inquiry looking at both sides of the issue. With 4 of the 5 panel members who made this decision being elected by the previous Labor government.
These 5 panel members decided, upon the findings by this investigation by the team they appointed, that Sunday rates and Public holiday rates were too high in Australia and were detrimental to the feasibility of small businesses in Australia and to the economy in general.Labor wanted a fair work commission, and they got it.
This was one of their jobs, to find out where it was unfair and they concluded that retail workers are being paid too much on Sundays and public holidays.eg: Normal rate to work in cafe is $22 an hour for permanent part timer. On Sundays, that rate was $38 an hour to do the same job. Now it's $33 an hour, which will be gradually implemented.
Merged from Penalty Rates Need to Be Changed Not Reduced
A lot has been said about Penalty Rates and the changes about to come to pass that will unjustifiably reduce the incomes of already low income earners.
The biggest argument is Australia no longer has a 5-day week - I agree with this argument
BUT i would argue that working Sunday at 12pm-5pm probably isn't worth the double time but if you expect me to work friday night dinner in the busiest restaurants in town for $20 an our you got to be joking.
We no longer have a 5-day week but most people do value Friday/Saturday and maybe even Sunday night. I'd happily work weekends during the university period of my life but if you asked me if i would prefer to work during the day say 11am-7pm or give up my Saturday night 5pm-12am I'd work during the day all the time and spend time with my friends on a Saturday night.
Penalty rates need to be changed to reflect a change in societies views maybe people arent hitting up church every Sunday at 10am but i'd bet im not the only one who wouldn't easily give up his/her Friday/Saturday night.
Penalty rates were set to reward those who where willing to work on the times that are socially seen to be times that we should be socializing.
Personally it should be double time after 7pm-9am Friday to Sunday.
Thats is just my opinion.
Plenty of people that would work Friday (or weekend) nights if you don't want to.
Basically as a society there is no longer an emphasis on certain days/ times being "inconvenient" or "reserved". What may be inconvenient for one is not for another, so there are plenty of people that would happily work those days/times.
Lots of people claiming that everyone will "just not work" on a Sunday and "that will show them!", but this is just not true; there will be no issue filling a roster with others willing, able and happy to work.
Take away all penalty rates, adjust wages to 1.25 of current base rate.
Working on a Saturday or Sunday is no longer the issue it once was.People work penalty rates only for extra money, not because of inconvenience on their lives.
If Sundays meant so much to them, they would just not work Sundays.This is pretty much the basis of the report.
The whole penalty rates thing came into effect when we, as a society, transitioned from the old days where nothing was open on a Sunday, everything closed at midday on a Saturday and nothing was open past 5pm on a Sunday.
As the report outlines, we are now a more demanding society and expect things to be open everyday and for longer hours, hence why the old 5-day working week has faded away.
Saturday and Sunday are no longer the only "weekend" days - plenty of professions work Saturday and Sunday and hence their "weekend" might be a Monday and Tuesday.
The only arguments I've seen are from people that work weekends purely to get the extra money and not because of the inconvenience of working on a day which was reserved as a "day off".
Car salesmen and real estate agents see their busiest days on weekends but their pays don't increase on weekends by 25% to 50%.
Dude they get plenty of commission money on weekends, your point is invalid.
Also they work fulltime and earn more than your coffee maker.
It is not just small wages cut down problems, all about peoples mind.
If people start to think it is getting really difficult to survive and too hard to make money, small businesses will gets more affected for the long term. Then people will start to think that they got to be careful to spend. The hell gate will open to the small businesses.And not to forget that not everyone spend and save like us (ozbargainers)
I see a need for a higher rate for weekends, society is still in the "weekends are family/leisure time" mentality so they deserve to be treated differently. But are Sundays actually any different to Saturday? I dont see why there isnt just one Weekend Rate, I dont see a Sunday being any more special than a Saturday these days.
Hrmm, I would hardly call going form 250% to 225% a slashing, we need to get them down to 125%. It seams people arnt angry that they have to work on Sundays, its that they think they need to be paid triple time to do it, GO AND GET STUFFED!
When they almost completely failed to raise the minimum wage from the paltry $7.25 it remains almost everywhere except NY state, Seattle and parts of California and a handful of other cities (just trying to fix that!) McDonalds rolled out the same sort of touch screen ordering they use in a lot of restaurants here. They replaced $7.25 an hour jobs too.
I used to believe the 'rising tide lifts all boats' story, mainly because I am a pretty well paid knowledge worker, and even though I could see the society where this philosophy was most closely adopted (the USA) was clearly leaving the bulk of their population behind. I really thought there would be a catch up as wealth spread. But it didn't. Look at the graphs and the average American worker is worse off in real terms than 40 years ago. The richest are doing much, much better.
In Australia, policies like means tested welfare and penalty rates, high minimum wages and centrally protected work conditions have meant that young people today have a good standard of income (albeit with no chance of buying a house in a city), generally speaking, compared with America where young people have a very poor standard of income, generally speaking.
Despite earning a fairly good salary, I have plenty more in common with the average person than the top 1% of the wealthy, and I am certain that if those wealthy saw a way to cut my pay down to their advantage, they would not even blink.
So every little thing, like this decision, that makes us more inequitable and kicks lower paid people a bit more is something I take personally, because it makes my community, the place where I live and raise my kids, a bit poorer. Even if I personally might even benefit from scrapping that terrible 50c Sunday surcharge at the cafe (who am I kidding, I OzBargain my coffee at home 9 times out of 10).