Photographers - I Need Advice (Photos at Night)

• 

  supnigs super skids on 07/02/2017 - 11:14

  +2

  Lens, use full manual

• 

  Shadowsfury on 07/02/2017 - 11:24

  I'm assuming apart from manually adjusting settings you were also manually focusing the lens too?

  • 

    Sacco07 on 07/02/2017 - 12:22

    Yeah, I was also manually adjusting the focus of the lense.

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  [Deactivated] on 07/02/2017 - 11:24

  time for an upgrade me thinks

  try a canon 70D

• 

  DanJamCam on 07/02/2017 - 11:33

  +2

  Hi,
  First time commenting.

  I'm also a budding photographer, but nowhere near as knowledgeable as some others.

  The lens is absolutely the most important when worrying about night photography rather than the camera. To answer your question on what you should be looking for in a lens for night photography is the aperture. These are the f-stop values, for instance f1.8 or f3.5 are common examples. The lower the f-stop number the more light the lens can receive, thus shots can have a faster shutter speed but still have the same amount of light as a picture taken with a higher f-stop and longer shutter speed.

  I would suspect (just guessing really) that the shots are blurry not because of the focusing but there was either some movement in the camera, e.g. the tripod was moving somehow, or the leaves on trees, seeing as it was shot in a forest, were moving in the wind. Because of the slow shutter speed, every small movement would be picked up and represented in the final shot as blurriness. Like taking a handheld shot at night, it's going to be blurry.

  So, you need to set your camera on manual, change aperture values down to the lowest possible, adjust ISO values accordingly if you need more light, and make sure that the shutter speed is probably not over 5 seconds or so if you can help it - that is of course if you are not intending on taking a long shutter speed picture of stars for example.

  I really don't think you need to upgrade the camera, generally the best shots are going to be made by the photographer not the camera. Unless there is something about the camera you don't like, such as low res video.
  Hope this helps.

  Dan

  • 

    Sacco07 on 07/02/2017 - 12:37

    My current Lense only goes as high as f3.5. The aperture was set to that.
    It definantly wasnt the tripod moving either. Also it was a pretty good night, there was little to no wind at all. I dont think it would of been movement. If it was because of movement I wouldnt of been able to get good photos from my friends camera that I used.

    My settings were
    f3.5
    Shutterspeed through various photos went from 5 - 30 seconds. (Stars were in the background)
    I tried using varius different ISO settings. Anywhere from around the 1600 - 3200.
    I found that around 3200 my images were getting grainy so I had to drop it.

    Might look into buying a new lens

    • 

      DanJamCam on 07/02/2017 - 12:51

      OK,
      When you used your brother's camera and his lens, do you know what settings you were on when you took decent shots?

      • 

        Sacco07 on 07/02/2017 - 12:55

        My friends camera?
        I used the exact same settings I believe. Maybe a slightly different apperture. His lens might have gone to something like f3.2. I cant recall of the top of my head.
        When I used my friends camera I used the same Shutter Speed and same ISO as my Camera (My Brothers Camera).

      • 

        DanJamCam on 07/02/2017 - 13:05

        @Sacco07:
        Yes, sorry, your friend's camera.
        I'm lost then :). If you were using the same settings I would have expected the shots to be similar in quality. As others have said, it is difficult to focus correctly at night, so that may be the issue as to why the images are blurry. If you are going to buy a new camera and new lenses, and are particularly interested in night photography, be sure to get a lower f-stop lens, around f1.8 ideally. In my experience (again, just amateur), I want to have the lowest shutter speed possible, a faster lens will help with that.
        Good luck!

• 

  EyyBanane on 07/02/2017 - 11:33

  +2

  I think you might have goofed up some settings. Any SLR these days is perfectly capable of producing a decent pic at night especially on a tripod, depending on the exposure time and available light source. Can you list out what all settings you changed/ tried to change? Or probably post the EXIF data of one of the blurry photos from your camera?

  • 

    Sacco07 on 07/02/2017 - 12:38

    I'm just at work at the moment. I'll try to post a picture when I get home.
    The settings I was using are below

    My settings were
    f3.5
    Shutterspeed through various photos went from 5 - 30 seconds. (Stars were in the background)
    I tried using varius different ISO settings. Anywhere from around the 1600 - 3200.
    I found that around 3200 my images were getting grainy so I had to drop it.

• 

  BrewerHaHa on 07/02/2017 - 11:52

  Most important thing is your lens (Lens>Body is the conventional thought because the lens can be reused over and over and focuses light to create the sharp images). Have something that will go to f2.8 or lower if you want something capable (f1.8 or lower as you get more serious about spending money). Body does make a difference. The larger the sensor in your camera the more light it can gather. Also certain cameras are made for low light such as the Sony A7s. Remember higher MP means worse high ISO (low light) performance due the light density/pixel.

  For night time photog, you want
  - Long exposure time (Why not try 30 seconds?)
  - Lens to be wide open (a lot f stop)
  - High ISO (depending on light levels try 1600 and go up)

  If they were blurry, it's your lens. That's the part that will focus light. So try messing with the manual more and make sure you can see or know the distance to your subject so you can use the distance scale on your lens. If you're looking to get a new body, I'd recommend a mirrorless over DSLR since you can see exactly what you're going to take a photo of. If you're out of focus, mirrorless will help you out in that regard.

  Night photog can be hard because you're using a low f stop which reduces depth of field (meaning it's hard to get a lot into focus especially if things are close and far from you) but you may want everything in focus. So it's a balancing act. If not everything about f stop makes sense you can do a bit of research and it should clear it up or ask around here and I'll try reply or someone else.

  Goodluck on your adventures!

  • 

    Sacco07 on 07/02/2017 - 12:43

    Thanks heaps for the Info! My current lens will only go as low as f3.5.
    I'm currently doing a course from Udemy (One of the freebies)

    The settings I used were
    f3.5
    Shutterspeed through various photos went from 5 - 30 seconds. (Stars were in the background)
    I tried using varius different ISO settings. Anywhere from around the 1600 - 3200.

    • 

      BrewerHaHa on 07/02/2017 - 13:07

      At f3.5 you're going to need to go higher than ISO3200, especially if you're taking photos of the night sky.

      Your distance scale on the lens should be set on "infinity". Some have a little bit of an extra twist after infinity but you don't want to twist the manual focus ring past that. You want it right on the infinity marking. This might be one reason it was out of focus/blurry (but shouldn't affect it's brightness).

      Also if you're expecting great photos like the ones you see online of the stars, these aren't achieved straight out of the camera. Most of the time, they're shooting RAW and using post processing software such as Lightroom to enhance them so the stars are clear and bright.

      For settings, at f3.5 you're going to need to go up to ISO6400 with 30 second shutter speed. From there, you'll want to use some post processing to get the images to the level of brigness that you're after. If you really can't go above 3200 due to noise, try for a longer shutter speed if your camera allows.

      If you are planning on getting a new camera, try and buy the body only. The kit lens is often considered a waste due to the lack of quality. Save that extra $100 or so (even if the kit lens alone costs $300+) and get a better lens. In the end the kit lens will be something you won't keep, so why buy it in the first place unless you really are tight on money?

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  trex on 07/02/2017 - 12:12

  It just sounds like in changing the settings to manual focus, you did not focus the camera properly. It can be hard especially in the dark to get a sharp picture. You should use a flash light/camera flash to help get the shot into proper focus first before taking the shot.

  • 

    Sacco07 on 07/02/2017 - 12:46

    We used an LED Torch to try and get the tree in proper focus.
    Again it was strange because I could get a good focus photo through my friends camera but not my own.

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  ZippyRoo on 07/02/2017 - 12:26

  Agree with Dan above. It depends on what is actually blurry. Is it because your friend's lens is different which means that you're able to shorten the exposure time, resulting in less blurry leaves, or is your entire shot blurry because your lens is out of focus? I would definitely suggest looking into upgrading your lens first but a good camera will also help, I had a Canon 450D for many years and then upgraded to the 6D, the photo quality improved drastically although the same lens was used.

  I'm not a professional photographer either, but I've done some shots at night and didn't really need to turn on manual focus ever. The camera's always set to manual and I just adjust the aperture and the shutter speed, and the lens was then able to focus always.

  • 

    Sacco07 on 07/02/2017 - 12:51

    I'd have to say that I think its because my lense was out of focus. The lense I was using is the same age as the camera.
    We both had similar apperture settings going off memory, both were about f3.5
    He was able to manually focus much better then what mine would. His Lense is only about 1 or 2 years old. Mines about 7 or 8.

    I've been using the manual settings for a few months now. So i'm starting to get the hang of it a little bit.
    I just found this to be a little bit strange because I was able to take good shots with his camera but not my own.

• 

  spinferno on 07/02/2017 - 12:49

  +1

  • use a torch when focusing manual, i rarely use AF in those kinds of nightshots
  • use the zoom function on your live view when manually focusing to get into that detail
  • use low ISO to maximise the dynamic range you get to work with when pulling clipped details back in post processing.
  • stop down at night (f4.0-f8.0, i usually get sharpest at f/5.6 but it depends on your lens) to get a depth of field deep enough to provide sharpness for foreground/background - this is an attempt to grab the hyperfocal distance.

  here is my flickr, there are some nice night shots there:
  https://www.flickr.com/photos/spinferno

• 

  infinite on 07/02/2017 - 14:58

  Most of the answers already in here are pretty much accurate, but I'd add an extra suggestion that when you do decide to start looking around to upgrade the camera/lens, go make a post over here: https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/132 and ask for some suggestions. They are a very active and knowledgeable community & very much up-to-date in terms of obtaining good pricing for what ever turns out to be best value for your needs.

• 

  widzz on 08/02/2017 - 08:37

  Is the lens has VR (vibration reduction) feature?

  If so, ensure you turned this feature off when using tripod and taking long exposure shots.

  • 

    Sacco07 on 08/02/2017 - 15:02

    Yes it does have the feature, and I had turned it off also!
    It's a strange one

• 

  ck16 on 08/02/2017 - 09:17

  Hi @Sacco07,

  I mainly shoot astrophotography and have had great success with both my old Sony NEX-5 mirrorless camera from 2010 and a Nikon D810.

  As mentioned above, any half decent DSLR or mirrorless camera will do, but ones that have less noise at higher ISO levels will definitely allow you to capture better images.

  The settings will not always be exactly the same, because there are many factors that influence your settings, even at night. For example if the moon is out, it can cause quite a bit of light pollution, even if your eyes can't see it. This is amplified when using long shutter speeds (anything above 10 seconds).

  Regarding focusing, this can be hard to master in the middle of the night. I've found setting the focus ring all the way to infinity doesn't always give you the clearest shot. On my wide angle Nikon, the sweet spot is just shy of 1mm prior to infinity. All lenses will different slightly and eventually you'll learn yours over time.

  Here are some tricks:

  • If possible, set to autofocus and focus on a distant star or the moon
  • Or during the daytime, autofocus on something distant like a building and take note of the focus marks
  • When you have the focus right you can either mark your lens body with a marker or try taping it to stop it from moving
  • Once you have your focus right, turn off autofocus so you don't lose it

  As a general baseline setup for my camera, I use the following settings for photographing the night sky without the moon:

  • White balance - incandescent
  • Aperture - as wide as you can go, mine is f/2.8
  • Focal length/Zoom - as wide as you can go for night sky shots
  • ISO - I start off at 6400 and work my way down, but this can range anywhere from 800 to 6400
  • Turn off high ISO noise reduction, this can be fixed in post processing on your computer
  • Shutter speed - depends on the focal length of the lens but I use the "500 Rule" formula (500 / focal length = maximum shutter speed to avoid star trails)

  NOTE the calculation above is for a full frame sensor focal length. For a Canon crop sensor camera, multiply the focal length by 1.6 and for Nikon, multiply by 1.5.

  So a 24mm lens on a crop sensor Nikon is really (equivalent to on a full frame) 36mm (24 * 1.5).

  Here are some other tips:

  • Must use a sturdy tripod as movement causes blurred images
  • Use a remote shutter release, either cabled or remote control to avoid shaking the camera when pressing the shutter button
  • If a remote shutter release isn't possible, set the camera to timer mode of 2 or 5 seconds. This allows movement of the camera to stop after pressing the shutter release button before the shutter actually opens
  • Use star guide smartphone app because it can tell you the position of the Milky Way galactic centre in the night sky, the best ones have night mode so it doesn't kill your eyes when using it in darkness
  • Have a headlamp or torch that can emit red light as this doesn't mess with your eyes. You need a torch if you're out and about at night for your own safety
  • Scout your location during the day so you know the terrain and dangers beforehand
  • Bring warm clothing. Wear layers because it can get cold at night when you're in the middle of nowhere
  • Bring charged up spare batteries if you have any
  • If you have an iPhone there's an app called PhotoPills that helps you plan your shots based on location and date. It also has a large database of camera models, lenses and formula to help you get good shots. It's being released on Android in March I believe
  • Find a location far from a city or town to avoid light pollution. Google "dark sky locations" to find a dark sky map

  Happy shooting!

  Cheers,
  CK

  • 

    Sacco07 on 09/02/2017 - 09:45

    Thanks so much for your input. I'll give it a try next time im out away from the city. I was playing around with the manual focus again last night I was able to get a clear image until it got really dark (after 9:30pm). I'll have another try tonight and see if I can get it any clearer.
    If you dont mind me asking what lense do you use on your D810?
    I'll be downloanding that App right away. I've always been intrested in Astrophotography. Is there anywhere where I can see some of your photos?
    Thanks again for the usefull tips!

    • 

      ck16 on 05/03/2017 - 16:45

      Hi @Sacco07,

      Sorry for the late response - I only just noticed your reply.

      I have a 14-24mm f/2.8 and 50mm f/1.8 lens for my D810. I mainly use my 14-24mm lens though as the wider the better for astro.

      Cheers,
      CK

• 

  PlasticSpaceman on 08/02/2017 - 09:30

  OK - so you have a D5000. I assume that’s the Nikon. Your friend has a D5400 - Nikon never released one of those but I’ll assume basically it’s a much newer camera. Maybe a D3400? So assuming that’s the case, then you’ll find that the newer camera has a much better sensor - e.g. likely able to run at much higher ISO levels with less grain. It will also have a much higher MP image size, but that’s not the be all and end all of everything.

  Basically, you should still be able to take decent night shots. I used to have a Nikon D60, and the D5000 was the update to that. The slower lens you have means you will need to use higher ISO and/or longer exposures. The higher ISO increases grain, the longer exposures introduce potential issues such as blur due to movement. so some advice, in no particular order, from someone who’s been taking photos for far too many years:

  Advice #1: Assuming you intend to stick with the Nikon, then yes - get a brighter lens. A new or new new 50mm f1.8 can be got for around the $100 mark. That will be two f stops faster than your current lens, so will let about four times as much light to your sensor which will make it easier for you to manually focus as well as enable you to use lower ISO settings and/or faster exposures. It is also likely going to be sharper than your current lens assuming it’s a standard kit job. You will also be able to use this with a new camera when/if you get one, and it will make a wonderful portrait lens on the crop sensor camera.

  Advice #2: If you plan to do a lot of night photography with sky/land/cityscapes then a wide angle would be nice. Then again, so would be a full frame camera. If you’re learning and on a budget, then I wouldn’t bother for now. Learn how to use what you have now, albeit I would still recommend that 50mm.

  Advice #3: When shooting long exposures, be aware that you can get unwanted light from all sorts of directions that can spoil an exposure. You may not even be aware that it’s there until you have have built up some experience - light wash from nearby street lights for example. A lens hood can help here, reducing the risk.

  Advice #4: Use a remote trigger or the self timer to fire the camera. Unless you are using a professional tripod that weighs like a truck, then pressing the shutter release button will move the camera and cause blur. Different cameras require different amounts of pressure so some are a little better than others, but if you are using exposures of more than 1/2 a second then don’t use the button on the camera.

  Advice #5: Learn to believe what’s on the lens, not what’s on the screen, or at the very least distrust what the camera may be saying. The focus system on DSLRs can get confused at low light (so if you are in manual mode but using the electronic focus system to tell you when you're in focus then that can be an issue). The lens will show you distance. Learn about Plane of Focus. If it’s a landscape/cityscape, just set it to infinity. The shot should be in focus. DSLRs lost the split focus screen that the old SLRs that made life a little easier, although I have become a convert to focus peaking on my Sony A7.

  Advice #6: You have a digital camera. It costs you nothing to make multiple shots, other than your time. Take multiple shots - one with lower ISO and longer exposure, one with higher ISO and shorted exposure. Repeat that for different aperture settings. Later when viewing the results, find out which one(s) work best for you and your camera and the type of photos you want to get.

  Have fun!

  • 

    Sacco07 on 09/02/2017 - 09:49

    Thanks for all the great advice.
    I'll start having a look at new lenses with a f1.8 apperture.
    I wouldnt mind looking at a wide angle lense either.

    Thanks!

    • 

      ck16 on 11/03/2017 - 11:31

      Hi @Sacco07,

      The wider the aperture the better, but most of the professionals I've spoken to use a lens where f/2.8 is the widest.

      I've started experiementkng with smaller apertures f/4 and still get very good exposures.

      They key is to have a sensor that can handle high ISO without introducing too much noise.

      Cheers,
      CK

• 

  Nitro on 08/02/2017 - 12:12

  As mentioned by many others:
  The lower the f-stop on your lens, the better - 1.8 is good. (however note that the wider you open your aperture, to let in more light, the shallower your depth of field will be)
  The higher the ISO the better (for capturing more light), but stop once the images are getting grainy
  Sturdy tripod, with remote shutter release, or 2 second timer.
  Manual focus, with any Image Stabilisation turned off.
  Take test shots with your focus, then review the image as large as possible on the camera. Start at infinity, and keep going just a little each time until they look good. This will be probably be better/easier than trying to focus using live view or viewfinder if it is very dark.

  If your friend lets you borrow their lens, you can always try that on your camera just to see if you have any issues with it. Also I presume you have no issues with your lens/camera in normal light? ie can you focus manually in normal light ok?
  Are you using a the viewfinder for focus? If so, make sure that your diopter isn't needing adjustment, as if that is out then your captured images won't match what the viewfinder is showing you.

  • 

    Sacco07 on 09/02/2017 - 09:54

    Thanks for your input.
    You've brought up a good point in trying their lense on my camera. I'll swap lenses next time i'm with him and see how I go.
    In normal light I can manually focus fine. It's only when it gets really dark that it struggles. Even if I illuminate a tree or something and try to get it in focus it doesnt seem to work well.
    Yes I was using the viewfinder for focus. If it needs adjusting wouldnt it still be blurry during the day also?

• 

  srhardy on 08/02/2017 - 14:30

  TORCH, illuminate and focus, then set into manual and away you go.

  Another trick is to 'paint' the scene with the torch during the exposure. great for trees/rocks ect…

  If you try to photograph the moon, remember its BRIGHT (against a black background) so its a fast shutter setting!

  One sweet thing is in a dark room and say a 20 second exposure, to write something in the air like your name.

  • 

    Sacco07 on 09/02/2017 - 09:55

    Thanks for the Tip.
    I'll give it a go!
    Cheers

• 

  Vampyr on 09/02/2017 - 00:49

  Were you using a remote shutter release, or timer?

  • 

    Sacco07 on 09/02/2017 - 09:50

    +1

    I was using a timer on both. I'm going to give it another try next time im out there!
    Cheers

• 

  phocus on 09/02/2017 - 12:22

  +1

  Sounds like just a focus issue.

  Here is what I do.

  Most cameras have Manual and auto focus settings, however so does your lens.

  Before taking the photo, set both to auto. Get a bright torch. Auto focus on the point you want in subject. Make sure the camera has actually made focus, use live view to check. Then change lens and camera to manual focus.

  Set your other settings as appropriate.

  Click away.