What to Do When Landscaper Left a Incomplete Site Due to Dispute?

Hi Ozbargainers,

Our house completed build last October. It required new driveway, concreting and we were thinking of replacing our fences. Having had chat with our neighbours and gotten their agreement, we have gotten a few quotes and found this landscaper whom agreed to do the work. He told us that to do the fence, our existing retaining wall will need to be replaced due to drainage issues (the retaining was is build as part of new house). He seemed to be quite experienced and honest, so we agreed.

After agreeing with the quote which he suggested us to do (fencing, retaining wall, concreting, decking and side gates) and paid him 5000 dollars deposit. This is where our nightmare has started. To get to the point I will skip all the other troubles, but basically in the lines of once we've made a significant payment, he will ask for more and refuse to do any work nor refund unless we comply. We were eager to move into our house due to financial and security concerns, so after a number arguments an addition 7000 dollars later, we asked him to send us in writing no more surprise payments he agreed.

After almost 2 months our concreting was finally retaining wall was half complete and he disappeared. By the time he re-appear, it was already after Xmas in Jan. His excuse was to his mother was sick and he needs to look after her. We said we understand but urged him to start work as soon as he can. Then nothing happened again we finally had to move in as we can no longer afford our house been vacant for so long.

When we moved in, we noticed that his retaining wall is built far from where the old fence was, and we sent him a text asking him to confirm if the fence will be at the right place. He did not reply, so we kept calling him until he answered, he said that it was not first and then said it was after. We became suspicious and did some of our own investigation. Comparing with the reestablishment survey report as part of the house built the fence is not on the boundary where the old fence was and with places which as wide as 20cm. We contacted him again asking him to address this, he told us to get another survey, if it is indeed not right, he will fix it. So we had to spend another 500 dollars on the other survey which should exactly the issue. He kept on arguing that the surveyor is wrong, and used a width and length measure we supplied to him as 'evidence' we provided 'wrong' information.

Anyway, we disagreed, stating that there is no confusion with the boundary as there was an existing fence, there were also survey markings done beforehand. He said he did want to waste his time and drove off and ask us to send him a survey report. Quite fed up, we sent him the report via email and also told him that he has been not doing work for over a months and not willing to work out a resolution. If he didn't respond to us, we will have to find another person. So he didn't respond, and we proceed to find another person and raise a case to VCAT.

He called us saying that we cannot start our work cause we are breaching contract by getting some quotes (which we are doing). We cannot use the materials that he bought using our money. He said he already reported me to VCAT. I have contacted Consumer Affairs Victoria, they said the quote we signed does not comply with domestic building act, as he failed to provide required documents to us, for example his insurance policy, building code, and other relevant paperwork. It sounded like he was just making some empty threats.

But we really need to urgently get the work done, as it has been gone for more than 2 months since he pulled it down, and we have kids and elderly, the site is quite unfriendly and dangerous. In addition, his construction has caused quite a bit damage to neighbour's properties. But we are not sure if we can use the materials that he left on our yard, we think we should be able to as it is bought using our money but not sure if it is viewed the same from legal perspective. Hope anyone can give us some advices. Sorry for the mumbling as we are quite stressed.

Thanks for your feedback.

Ants

===
Just to make it clear on what the disput is, the fence he was going to build will be around 15 cm narrowest and 28cm widest away from boundary. The below are facts:

Fact 1: The old fence he pulled down was right on the boundary
Fact 2: The survey done prior his work clearly marked the boundary and would have been there before he started work. (the marking at the front is still there, the marking at the back unfortunately were destroyed by his work.
Fact 3: He said verbally he will fix any issues should we do another survey and showing he is wrong.
Fact 4: Another survey done and marked again (costed us $500), showing exactly the same as per fact 1, 2.
Fact 5: He called it BS and surveyor not experienced enough.
Fact 6: We called and asked for resolution, he refused to address issues and warned us from engaging other tradesperson to complete fence.

Addition Facts:
Fact a: Fence was pulled down by him, the site is hazadous to all three owners sharing the boundary. This has been 3 months.
Fact b: He sent as a text message in Nov and asked us for the width and length of the block without any context. We provided exact measures as per survay. He said this is his "evidence" that we provided false information to him.

======
I will provide updates as I go, we are going through proper legal means. I hope people will be more cautious than us. Consumer affairs victoria advised us that any work more than $5000 values are considered major, we should get proper contract signed as per domestic building contract act. We did not know and didn't do enough research, we were quite inexperienced. Hope who read this will be more careful. We should also note down contractors builders license number, insurance policy number, etc.

Comments

  • +4

    Just go ahead and get someone else to finish the job using the materials you have. Highly doubt a scam artist is going to take legal action against you and even if he does it's your chance to counter claim while you have him in vcat

  • So, just to be clear…after paying him $12k so far, exactly how much of your work has he actually completed?

    • I didn't put all my headaches in. We paid him 37K+ already. So far only think he has done is concrete and about half of the retaining wall. The money I mentioned is what he asked for additional, basically holding us hostage on the previous payment. I think he knew we were very eager to move in as we mentioned it several times.

      • +7

        Holy shit…dude, you need legal advice, immediately.

        • +12

          Geez…you got that right. 37K for a fence, what's it made out of? Eneloops?

        • yah, i know :(

        • +2

          @auslei: Don't feel too bad, most of us have been scammed at some point or another, you'll know a lot more going forward from here though. :)

        • @EightImmortals: thank, we are taking this as an expensive lesson as well. just hope we can warn others about this type of scams.

  • +3

    Chumlee is correct, the materials are yours so use them. When the contractor said you would need a new retaining wall when you just had a brand new one built that's when my alarm bells went off. If he continues to make threats make sure you have as much information about him as you can, license plate numbers on his car, that kind of thing so the cops can find him if necessary. Definitely report him to VCAT and look into how you might get your money (or least part of it) back..though good luck with that last part. Don't be the victim.

  • +5

    I have a feeling this is going to cost you a lot more money. To get your work finished and to get your money back by this scammer.

  • +2

    Typical scamming contractor from what I can see, the whole operation seems dodgy, from not following boundary work to making YOU get another survey done
    Seriously, what type of contractor cant follow the documents provided to them, one that SCAMS!

    Probably has done this to other people and the materials you have are most likely someone elses from another job he was meant to complete
    I would be seeking legal advice and taking this clown to court / finishg the job yourself

    Paying someone 37k Upfront before a job is nuts but I guess that happens, any professional worth their salt will take stepped payments for each stage of completion
    if the materials on site will finish the job, then by all means start using them to complete the job, the fact he is now threatening and harrassing you is now in the hands of the law, if he steps foot onto the property again without your consent get the police involved.

    • +1

      Just to clarify, we didn't pay 37k up front we have paid in stages. He has done one side of the retaining wall (where fence needs not replacement), he finished concreting and leaving the other side unfinished. (in terms of additional charges he charged us 7k+ addition to original quote.)

      We are getting some quotes now, and he just texted me saying yet again we cannot get another contractor until case is resolved by VCAT (which may take up 14 weeks).

      I did sign the quote he provide me, not sure if it binding so I have to use him even he doesn't do the work that I have already paid for. :(

      • You don't have to legally use him at all if VCAT have already stated its invalid
        that renders the contract NULL AND VOID from that judgement

        Furthermore if there is a safety risk with the current state of the property then you will be held accountable under law for any issues arising

        I would simply start getting resolution to the problem, 14 weeks to wait is a joke

        I would start moving on with the project and he can take up any empty threat once the job is completed, I am pretty sure VCAT aren't going to be in his favour.

  • What you have is the very common odd job scammer. As a home owner you will find that very rarely you will find a reliable, organised and truly skilled contractor. Most are fly by night transients or ex crims that cant get regular employment.
    Odd that VCAT say that his quote is invalid because he has not given you copies of his insurance, etc… In my decades of hiring tradesmen I have never had one offer that without being requested and then they get the shits when you ask.
    All you can do for now is cop it and learn the lesson… most are dodgy..!! Don't forget it.
    Get some quotes (not just one) from reputable people to complete the work. Ask for details of at least 3 recent jobs they completed.
    You will find that they will come on with their rehearsed spiel and BS and "being your best buddy" routine but just ignore that and remember that you want a good job done with a minimum of fuss and for a fair price.
    Make sure that at least 1/3 of the payment is kept until the job is finished to your satisfaction and the entire work area is CLEANED up. Rarely do any do that.. close enough is good enough for them so they pack up and bolt.
    Be very careful with retaining walls of any size… get it wrong and you could be up for a lot of money including repairing any damage done to neighbouring properties. Check with your local council re requirements and inspections as even replacing one can mean they must be involved.
    As for your old contractor, just start proceedings against him if you feel it is warranted. Usually it is like getting blood out of a stone and can take many years. Take photos of everything you can and document any verbal conversations.

    • +1

      Thanks for the information guys, I am just a bit concerned if I would get into trouble if I proceed, as he sounded very confident that I will due to "breach of contract". :(

      • +3

        He's bluffing. But don't confront him directly if he's got you rattled, take the contract into your local solicitor, tell him the story and then get his advice. He probably wont even charge you much for an initial consult.

      • +1

        Usually that is their bluff as these shonks have these encounters all the time.
        Not being aware of the "full" situation I cannot comment … understand that we only have one side of the story in typical forum fashion.
        Call a couple of respectable tradies and get them to give you a quote and some advice.
        Also contact the consumer authority in your state (VCAT?) and get their slant on how to proceed.
        Some solicitors may offer advice as well?
        I would email or text him and ask him to detail his reason for not wanting to complete the job in writing giving 7 days for that to be received.

        • Thanks for your help.I emailed him on the 25th asking him to provide detailed plan to address issues and proceed with work. I mentioned if we haven't received anyour response we will assume he abandoned the site and start looking for others to get work done. He failed to respond by Friday. We have spoken to consumer affairs Victoria, and was advised that we can proceed with others.VCAT won't comment and asked us to send a registered letter to him and fill out dispute forms.

          I am still at lost why we could have a dispute. As the retaining wall he built and the fence where he plan to build is obviously quite far from the boundary and from where the old fence was. Got a couple of fence guy to quote today, they were equally surprised.why would a fencer try to re-establish boundary in the first place.

      • he sounded very confident that I will due to "breach of contract"

        To put this in perspective, my solicitor is a partner in a large law firm, and a very capable & clever guy, yet he doesn't pretend that he can do landscaping work…

        Your landscaper will soon learn to work within his own scope of practice…

  • https://www.9now.com.au/a-current-affair/2016/extras/tell-us…

    Lol these guys love this crap. It may not solve your problems, but it may help others avoid your missfortune.

    • lol, who watches current affairs nowadays. :P

      • Same people who have always watched it.

      • People who want to be aware of what scams are going around. Maybe if the OP had watched something similar he may not be in this position now.

        • I understand, I was saying that there were many interests on TV as what's on internet before. I doubt channel 9 will treat our case seriously. Don't think it will make stories for them. We did things we could to be cautious (at least we thought so), such as paying in stages, etc. But it is not easy, at certain stages we need to trust people, it is sad nowadays trust is a luxury that you pay penalty for…

      • You have to pick and choose whats worth watching, been that way for a while

  • -2

    Just go back to your original contract?

  • Anyone know any good solicitors that does this in Melbourne eastern suburbs?

    • -2

      The local bikies

  • You get ripped off a lot. Trolling much?

    • The guy's made two posts in total…you might wanna consider increasing your threshold.

      • 100% of his posts are about him being scammed. Is that a high enough threshold?

        • If you reckon n=2 is a good enough statistical sample size to establish causation, maybe…

    • I am not trolling. I have posted twice because I normally just read rather than posting.I am genuinely asking for opinions. I have also updated with result. Plus I think this is worth sharing so others will be more cautious.

  • Auslei, your landscaping guy sounds like our ex-builder :( We contacted Boutique lawyers at some point but decided it was too expensive to go through the lawyers. In the end we bite the bullet and lost about 25k worth of work. Two months in our house is already starting to fall apart. If I could go back in time I would pay more to get someone else to finish the work. But we met other contractors after this said builders and I would say half of them didn't do what they promised and attempted to scam us in some ways.

    • Dodgy builders and tradies are such an issue. It seems excessively risky to attempt any modern renovations or rebuilding. Has put me off for years.

    • Did you take them to VCAT?

      • We tried. VCAT and VBA basically said, sure you can go through discipline hearing, or hire a lawyer and go to court, but at the end of the day, even the court won't be able to order them to finish the job. They exact words were "Unless you have 50k or more at stake then it's not worth your time".

        • Omg, this is bad. Sigh, I guess we might have to take it. I thought you can also ask them to pay for legal expenses if you have a very good case.

  • You know this door swings both ways
    As contractor I've spent a lot of money on materials and labour and never ask for money up front and it's quite easy for people to take that final bill hostage to get whatever they can out out of you, even refusing to pay at all ever
    That's why I always pack a length of chain. There nothing like a little tug on house footings to motivate
    It always surprises me how much cash scumbags can lay their hands on in under a minute

    • I totally understand when you spent materials and put work in and not getting paid. In my situation it is different, we have paid for both materials and work, but the work is under delievered.

      • Not replying to your post or situation just the general tone of the thread
        Good luck
        It's no fun dealing with unethical people because they only seem to respond to force
        Maybe take his work truck and sell it for parts before one of his other customers sets it on fire

  • First thing, install security cameras…..

    these kind of people can be dangerous….

    I was in a similar situation though not involving so much money hence no VCAT involved but the landscaper felt the work incomplete….. i kept calling and one day while we were away he came and threw stones at our property broke my windows and fence… we called police and they refused to do anything without a camera recording. to our surprise they didn't even lodge a report

    so based on my personal experience i would suggest get security cameras… these scammers know where you live and can be dangerous

    • +1

      Thanks, yes I did, 2 of them. I told him we did as well so he should not try anything dodgy.

  • Update:

    Have been working with consumer affairs (court action to proceed) also am contacted privately by others who were also been ripped off by the same person. I will probably disclose a bit further information once completed.

    However, I believe I should be able to share some public information:

    The company in question is in Victoria:

    From Australian Business Register:
    - https://abr.business.gov.au/SearchByAbn.aspx?abn=40182620083

    The person seemed to have recently registered another name on service seeking in July:
    - https://www.serviceseeking.com.au/profile/152404-ozlem-arsla…

    If you are looking for landscaper, proceed with caution, however I am not asking you to not use or consider this person. My experience can be used as a guide in your selection.

  • Pics or it didn't happen

    • I have got plenty of evidence in my document prepared for VCAT, including quotes, invoices, photos, etc, but I am not willing to share online as I do have concerns with privacy.

      I am no longer here to get advises since I have been talking with consumer affairs and understood my options.

      My update to the original issue is merely to warning people should they are looking for trades person (this person in particular).

      TBH, at this stage, I couldn't careless if one or two random people believe or not believe what happened.

      • It was a joke sorry :)

        • It's okay mate. hopefully people see my experience (a pretty dumb mistake) and will be cautious later on. :)

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