Should I go to court over speeding fine? NSW

Lneg on 26/01/2017 - 19:48
Last edited 03/02/2017 - 20:11

Got speeding fine. The reason for ticket was speeding under 10 km/h at 60 zone(73km/h).Checked the camera picture, and find out I was turning into right. Please check the pictures, my vehicle is "B"
https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/208304/46035/pic1.jpg
https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/208304/46036/pic2.jpg

Argument 1. I did write for a review to SDRO, and told them that it's impossible to turn right while doing 73km/h.
They replied that penalty stands, meaning I still have to pay the fine. But on the letter explains speed camera senses every single lane, every single cars speed.

Argument 2. After I got reply from SDRO, checked picture again, and find out that there is more information on top left corner of the picture. And it says "..lane:1..". I thought it means offender is on lane 1. Called them directly, and explained that I was on the lane 3. Operator says "Oh yes, I see that, can I put you on hold", then I thought, everything is ok, It's clear that it wasn't my vehicle doing speeding after all. And he comes back says penalty still stands, I asked "Why"?, He says "you need to go to court, there is only 1 review, and they've done it". I said "but you can see that it wasn't my vehicle?, it says lane 1", He goes "I DON'T KNOW WHICH IS LANE 1, AND WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE CAMERA". I was shocked, and don't know what to do.

Option 1. Go to court, and take the day off from my work, no earning for that day, and fight for the $114 fine.
Option 2. Pay the fine, and move on.

Question 1. What is lane 1?
Question 2. Should I go to court, how successful am I?
Question 3. Is there any way to fight without going to court?

Thank you.

UPDATE.
Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

Poll Options

  • 8
    Pay the fine, and move on, there is no chance for you.
  • 454
    Go to court, you have a good chance
  • 12
    Go to court, and good luck
  • 2
    There is other way
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Comments

  • bargainfinder on 28/01/2017 - 01:41
    +3

    Hi OP
    Before you go to court. Call them again. If lane 1 is the left lane then you are in the right and they incorrectly fined you. Be sure to ask to speak to a Supervisor or a manager. stand your ground and be persistent in asking to speak to one.
    I recently was fined and asked for a review, my review was unsuccessful and the fine stand. I gather more evidence ( video footage) and called them to ask for a review. I got the same answer as your: " you need to take it to court " even they have access to the footage which will clear my case. I was pretty disappointed as the lady didn't want to even to listen to my explanation and gave me that plain answer. I asked to speak to her superior and was put on hold. Then they told me to write for a review and 2 days later my fine was revoked A long with an apology in the letter.
    Call them again OP and make sure they listen to you

    • TailsK on 29/01/2017 - 08:33

      This is the best approach right now. Make sure you record everyone's name. Ask them for their names, and tell them you'll be putting in a formal complaint if it isn't resolved to your satisfaction, because this is a clear error on their part.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:22

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • dufflover on 28/01/2017 - 02:09
    +1

    Just reading the story and comments I'm surprised it seems to be the end of the line for official complaints or reviews; I mean it's so bloody obvious - both the mistake and the laziness of people on the phone who "review" without even knowing the lanes.

    Good luck!

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:23

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • Cheapo333 on 28/01/2017 - 02:23
    +7

    Ok, let's analyse whether it is plausible to turn at 73km/h or 20.23m/s at that intersection.

    Intersection is approximately 14m in width from google maps satellite view.
    For simplicity, lets assume your vehicle's turning trajectory approximates a circular path.
    The radius of your turning circle approximates to 7m.
    The formula for centripetal force is F =(mv^2)/r
    Newton's second law of motion of F = ma

    Equating these two formulas, we are left with a = (v^2)/r = (20.23^2)/7 = 58.465m/s^2
    In terms of g-force, this is 58.465/9.81 = 5.96

    So we can ask whether it is plausible for you to pull off approximately 6 g-force cornering in a Hyundai i30.
    A quick google search shows cornering at 6 G-force is in the upper realm of Formula one.

    I'm no Hyundai i30 expert, but I would be inclined to believe that the Hyundai with standard tyres is not able to maintain traction and produce 6g acceleration while cornering.

    I hope this helps.

    • DarkOz on 28/01/2017 - 07:12

      Let's keep it simple. Look at the ground. There is no smoke!

      Also the vehicle turning right had barely moved while the vehicle on lane 1 had travelled a vehicle length. How could you speed and travelled less distance in the same amount of time?

    • Save 50 Cent on 28/01/2017 - 14:04

      Asians..!

      • ccrap on 30/01/2017 - 04:10

        Initial D?

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:23

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • DarkOz on 28/01/2017 - 07:10
    +2

    The system is broken. They have someone making a simple mistake identifying the wrong lane/vehicle. Now you need to go to court to get it overturned when it could be done in a minute over the phone?

    • dufflover on 28/01/2017 - 13:13

      Because there's probably some unwritten rule somewhere that they need to clear phone calls within 30 seconds, still faster than the 1 minute it takes to see the obvious mistake :P

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:23

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • spal on 28/01/2017 - 07:38
    +2

    Even in court, the action maybe withdrawn by the prosecution, as they prepare to present the case. If you had raised these concerns in your review application, these grounds would then have stayed on record for a prosecutor to see the impossibility of the allegations. Yes traffic offences are strict liability offence but not to the extent of being ludicrous. I would suggest try once again to reason with them, otherwise ask them to refer to Court.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:23

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • fellator on 28/01/2017 - 07:48
    +1
    1. Find a lawyer
    2. Make reps to RMS
    3. Seek costs at court if it still goes ahead

    Can skip 1. If you know what to do.

    • Scumbag on 28/01/2017 - 09:11
      +3

      I had a case in Vic that was dropped without explanation 3 days prior to the court case. I just received a letter in the mail.

      I can only assume that they didn't want those officers to lose time going to court too.

      Good luck. BTW, it's pretty stressful, even when you know you're right.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:23

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • joelmuzz on 28/01/2017 - 10:40

    It's clearly the black car in the curbside lane, which has pulled two car lengths ahead.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:24

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • Ahbal on 28/01/2017 - 10:40

    So after doing a bit of reading on this thread, it seems you got the fine for the other vehicle speeding, is that correct?

    How absurd! Imagine how many people mistakingly pay a fine for a similar scenario!!

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:24

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

      • Ahbal on 03/02/2017 - 22:04

        That is very good news indeed! I hope the word gets out, so that when people get a similar speeding fine, they check to ensure it's not a similar error. As the fine isn't the only cost, you also deal with demerit points and a possible insurance premium increase as a result.

        Good to see the community helped you solve this mate

  • StewBalls on 28/01/2017 - 10:47

    If I were you I'd go have a chat to the local Chamber Magistrate…they will often help you to make appropriate representations in proper legalese that will prompt the SDRO to pull their heads in…

    Failing that, go see your local MP, that's what you voted them in for! ;)

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:24
      +1

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

      • StewBalls on 04/02/2017 - 01:30

        Great to hear, thanks for the update! :)

  • Almost there on 28/01/2017 - 11:27

    Out of curiosity, what are your rights when pulled off by the police? I was once stopped in NSW on a premise of speeding, but no evidence was presented, the officer jumped straight with the ticket. Is that legal?

    • Davo1111 on 28/01/2017 - 13:11

      Yes, they don't need to provide you with any evidence.

      Anyway their word > your word

    • Doggiie on 28/01/2017 - 13:51
      +1

      Innocent until proven guilty.

      They say they saw you speeding, tell them to prove it.

      Can't prove it? Tell them they harassing you unprovoked.

      • Almost there on 28/01/2017 - 22:37

        Exactly, that's what the law says. I asked about the evidence, and was told I can access it later (without any explanations how/when, etc) and the officer didn't show anything. In the end, accepted the fine, I'm hoping to learn a lesson for the future from that incident.

      • gromit on 30/01/2017 - 15:41

        innocent until proven guilty is for criminal cases. speeding is generally covered under civil law where no such system is in place. similarly like Tax audits and many other government services when the fine is deemed to be owed by you then it is on you to prove otherwise..

        • Doggiie on 30/01/2017 - 18:04

          It is true that for criminal cases you have beyond reasonable doubt which is how we claim innocent until proven guilty, there is still the civil system in which proof needs to be on the balance of probabilities.

          It works on a he said she said basis. If you are a law breaking citizen, your word is of a much lesser value than a law abiding citizen. If they absolutely had no proof (mobile speed camera footage/shots) and you're not known to be a hooligan, you will likely to be put off the hook due to lack of evidence. Due to human error in a police's eye to estimate your speed, that 'evidence' is hardly provided enough weight to make their resolve stick.

        • gromit on 31/01/2017 - 08:38

          @Doggiie: I agree, but your previous statement is what I have trouble with "Innocent until proven guilty.

          They say they saw you speeding, tell them to prove it.

          Can't prove it? Tell them they harassing you unprovoked.
          "
          It does not work that way, you need to show the evidence that you are innocent, they do not have to investigate and prove you are guilty. you are NOT innocent until proven guilty, you are guilty unless mitigating evidence is presented by either party.

      • chumlee on 31/01/2017 - 08:46

        Traffic offenses are strict liability offenses.

  • Davo1111 on 28/01/2017 - 13:10
    +1

    Usually these threads are just bullshit excuses that I get the pleasure of laughing at. HOWEVER, I'm not sure a Kia could reach 73km/hr, let alone make that turn.

    I'd challenge it

    • jackary on 28/01/2017 - 16:27

      Lucky it's not a Kia then
      waits for inevitable bogan "they're all the same" comment

      • Davo1111 on 29/01/2017 - 12:59

        Ahh ok, just the logo in the sun.

        Anyway I don't think either could make that corner at 70+km/hr

  • unclekenz on 28/01/2017 - 13:21
    +2

    Simply a case of mistaken identity. Period.
    Stick to the known facts as evidenced in the two photos supplied.

    A speed camera has recorded Vehicle A travelling at 73kph in a 60 kph speed zone.
    Mistakenly, the registered owner of Vehicle B (assuming you are that person) has received the penalty notice for that recorded incident concerning Vehicle A.

    As the opportunity to state your case succinctly has regrettably already been lost, either:
    A. Approach your local State member for redress and failing that,
    B. Attend court with known evidence as per photos, provide a clear/succinct explanation and present a statutory declaration to that effect.

    Any fairminded person could come to only one conclusion … re-issue penalty notice to the registered owner of the at fault vehicle A.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:25

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • dcam on 28/01/2017 - 13:40
    +6

    Is it possible to sue them for incompetence?

  • [Deactivated] on 28/01/2017 - 15:01
    +1

    I would look into riding on the coattails of the recent issue with variable limit speed cameras and the subsequent cancellation of more than $1 million in fines.
    https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/34259766/have-you-been-unfai…
    The revenue that particular camera generates will be significant, and if you can come up with a way of invalidating their process, well this would also be in the millions. Specifically if it can be shown this error is systematic in some way.
    Speak with Channel Seven, I am sure they would love a follow up story.
    I am sure a million dollar hit to their revenue would get the SDRO attention, failing everything else.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:25
      +1

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • CandyMan on 28/01/2017 - 15:10
    +1

    Good chance the car travelling opposite of you is the offender as it travellrd the furthest distance. Since you were obscuring its car plate, they want you to cop the fine

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:25

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • darkchoc on 28/01/2017 - 16:52

    A lot of good advice on this forum. Try giving them a call. If it didn't work…

    writing a letter requesting a court hearing on the basis that you are not guilty together with the reasons you are not guilty, documenting your phone call with the office where you were told they couldn't confirm the lanes and requesting further evidence of camera calibration, lane review so your can put a suitable defence.

    Also might be worth putting a countersuit as you are clearly innocent.

    Might get a letter back stating the fine is withdrawn. Or you will be able to present your evidence to judge together with documentation that you reasonably tried to present this evidence to the traffic office to avoid using court time.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:26

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • [Deactivated] on 28/01/2017 - 17:18
    +1

    Most likely will just change the fine to failure to stop at yellow light knowing NSW Law Logic

  • kati on 28/01/2017 - 20:05
    +1

    I have been in a similar situation before. Contact Public Defender - https://www.facebook.com/publicdefendercolumn/
    He is very helpful and deals with these cases a lot.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:26

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • imahapyboy on 28/01/2017 - 23:16

    ＄１１４？　ｏｒ　＄１１４０？

  • peterpeterpumpkin on 28/01/2017 - 23:45
    +1

    If this is the best they can do then the system needs to be challenged and fixed. Even if you were guilty their response wasn't good enough.

    Can you have an audience at these court appearances? It would be great to create pandemonium.

    • Ahbal on 29/01/2017 - 00:24
      +1

      I agree with this. Such an error is unacceptable. What makes it worse is the response OP described when seeking a review of the matter.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:26

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • poppit88 on 29/01/2017 - 01:19

    Without a doubt - take this to court.

    Your second option before doing that is to write to your member of parliament, or take it it a newspaper. Talk about bureaucracy gone mad! To think our taxes pay these people to make these decisions.

    I often wonder what is happening to the world.

    Edit: Even better - re-appeal your appeal, and tell them if they can't see commonsense you'll take the matter to the Ombudsman. Public servants doesn't like the Ombudsman!

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:26
      +1

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • diddy50 on 29/01/2017 - 09:51

    If this doesn't get revoked before hand, they are a joke!

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:26
      +1

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • razorack999 on 29/01/2017 - 09:58
    +2

    The bigger issue here is that the camera is defective. Potentially all infringements using this faulty camera can now be revoked. Perhaps that can be pointed out to the money grubbing pricks

    • gromit on 01/02/2017 - 08:41

      The camera does not appear to be defective at all, simply a system or more likely someone has misread the photo. The photo clearly and correctly identifies the offender.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:27

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • CalmLemons on 29/01/2017 - 10:02
    +1

    Keep on calling them and complain till they give up. This is Australia, it's what we do best!

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:27

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • razorack999 on 29/01/2017 - 10:05

    Here is a link. keep them honest. https://www.9now.com.au/a-current-affair/2016/extras/tell-us…

    • Davo1111 on 29/01/2017 - 13:00
      +1

      Nothing honest about ACA

      • razorack999 on 29/01/2017 - 13:14

        agree , but in this case they could prove useful

  • jjohnmaher on 29/01/2017 - 10:41

    i am not a detective or anything but looking at both photos, the mazda looks like a typical driver who speeds up when he sees yellow and brakes after passing the lights because he is going too fast.

    now, depending on what opportunity cost you have to sacrifice by taking time off going to court + spending time to prepare your case in a structured manner, if you value justice and dignity, go for it.

    if the opportunity cost you have to sacrifice is 10x more than the fine OR you may miss a great BARGAIN of the century that is running on that court day… that's something to consider.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:27

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • apptrack on 29/01/2017 - 10:57

    Don't know if anyone else noticed, but in the photo it says Lane one, which I'm guessing is the left car going straight?

    • bobbified on 29/01/2017 - 11:09
      +2

      We have a genius here!
      Where have you been this whole time? haha

    • John Kimble on 29/01/2017 - 11:19

      Did you even read the whole post?

      • apptrack on 29/01/2017 - 12:51
        -1

        Did not, was half asleep, oops…

  • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2017 - 13:35

    Take them to court ,they are assholes

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:27

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • clement1986 on 29/01/2017 - 14:03

    Call them again, ask for the last operator's name who rejected you. Go to his boss, show the evidence, maybe get a reporter from Channel 9 to go with you.

    Problem solved.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:27

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

      • clement1986 on 04/02/2017 - 07:51

        According to some consumers' act, you might be eligible to same or twice the compensation?

        At least that's what Woolies is doing, if the price is marked wrong and they tried to charge you for the wrong price, you get the product free…

  • lostn on 29/01/2017 - 16:13

    I'd be impressed if you could turn right at 73kph. The torque would be incredible.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:28

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2017 - 17:41

    Two options
    1. You call your State member of parliament. This is obvious bullshit.

    1. Get an initial consult with a lawyer to represent you, and see if they are confident enough that they would be able to get their costs back from the losing party when they inevitably lose. I'm not sure what happens if they try to withdraw before the court date, if costs can still be awarded to you - that's a question for them.

    Community Legal Centre might be a good starting point.

    Also check out trafficlaw.com.au, very useful info free on this website, but he is a very top end lawyer you might be able to afford.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:28

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • Infraction on 29/01/2017 - 19:29

    Take them to court for sure, the satisfaction of winning will be worth more than the hassle. Hopefully the consequence flows back to whoever did the review.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:28

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • UFO on 29/01/2017 - 20:05

    It's a legal matter still due before the courts. A member of parliament can't get involved until that process is finished.
    Whilst it's a good option for later, forget about your Local Member getting involved at this point… they wont.

    Go to court, you've got a very strong case.

    I'd even consider a engaging solicitor. With such a strong case, you may find someone willing to work at reduced/no fees just to chalk up the win.
    Approach some of the law firms nearby and see if anyone would be willing to take it on for you. A new grad might want it for court experience!

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:28

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2017 - 20:12
    +7

    I have not read all of the previous comments but I can tell you that you should not be required to go to Court if you follow my advice. Though policy prevents me from giving advice in any official capacity so I offer it as a private citizen.

    Firstly, elect to have the matter heard at Court (you're clearly in the right. An RMS employee made a mistake when checking the lane).

    Then you'll get a Court date and time.

    RMS generated defended matters are dealt with by police prosecutors in Local Court.

    Write to the Area Prosecutor Manager (they're in charge of the police prosecutors) in your neck of the woods (ring the police station closest to whatever Court you're being sent to and ask them the APMs name and postal address.).

    Ask them in writing to withdraw the proceedings purely based on the fact that the detection is lane 1, and you're in lane 3. You don't need maths or anything else. Just the lane number. Include the photographs and your full correspondence with RMS.

    They'll do one of two things. 1) Withdraw the matter immediately or 2) tell you they haven't received the brief of evidence from the RMS yet and can't make a determination yet. This isn't uncommon, RMS don't hand their briefs over until a day or two beforehand.

    If you do have to go to Court, find the prosecutor who has your matter and chat with them before Court starts and they'll pull the matter on the day before it gets heard. If you're not sure who the prosecutor is (they'll be wearing a suit just like everyone else) just ask the uniformed Sheriff or a police officer to point them out.

    Matters like this come up from time to time and pulling the matter if there's an obvious issue is something prosecutors do on a daily basis and won't be a bit deal.

    The hard part is making them aware of the matter before it starts so that you don't waste your (and their) time.

    If you have follow up questions just post and I'll reply.

    • Phoebus on 30/01/2017 - 13:09

      If they make you turn up to court then I wouldn't be concerned at all about wasting the prosecutor and magistrates time.
      If it doesn't get pulled before you turn up to court then let it go before the magistrate. Let the prosecutor explain his case to the magistrate.

      • [Deactivated] on 30/01/2017 - 17:52
        +2

        Funnily enough showing respect to the Court is not only common decency but will work in your favour allowing the matter to be heard in an expedited fashion allowing the matter to be dismissed or withdrawn hours earlier for you.

        The Magistrate has sole discretion on which order matters run in and not all matters listed in a day get heard and are often put over to another day requiring you to come back again.

        Come to Court with an attitude that your time is more valuable than theirs and you will have a bad day.

        The police prosecutor has better things to deal with in their day. NSW Government through tax revenue is paying them to deal with criminal matters not waste their time with petty RMS stuff ups. It is in the OPs, and the community's best interest if their time is not wasted.

        The prosecutor has 30 to 40 matters each day, 6 days a week. They don't care about yours. Make it easy for them and they can withdraw it for you.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:28

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • ranap on 29/01/2017 - 21:13

    Would you be able to request the SDRO for information on the car actually in Lane 1 as mentioned in the penalty. Tell them that you want to "Name the driver or person responsible" for the penalty notice and you believe the SDRO are obviously overworked and unable to re-issue the penalty permit to the correct person. You would do the needful on their behalf by naming the other driver/person responsible.

  • Aceboy884 on 29/01/2017 - 21:27
    +2

    From memories

    The first hearing you can submit a written reply, rather than attend in person

    I had a similar run in with local council for double parking

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:28

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • rentonc on 29/01/2017 - 23:14

    I'd love to know if car A got the letter too…

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:29

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • ggrant on 30/01/2017 - 01:18

    Tilt the poles 7 degrees, this will sort these buggers out.

  • Oz-Bogan on 30/01/2017 - 10:34

    A minor point, I know, but you should re-name the pictures 1 and 2 the other way around so they are in chronological order-so as not to confuse some people. While this is obvious to most it just adds a layer of confusion you don't need. There is enough already!

    My gut feeling is they will withdraw the fine when you tell them you are willing to go to court-and briefly re-state your case to them. Make sure you make it clear that you are the driver of the car that is turning right.

    I can feel your pain/frustration in dealing with the bureaucracy. DON'T GIVE UP! Keep us posted.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:29

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • sprucemoose on 30/01/2017 - 11:05

    I wonder how many other people have been fined in the same situation but failed to retrieve the photos like the OP and just paid the fine. I highly doubt this is an isolated incident.

    • neg on 03/02/2017 - 20:29

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • citizenSane on 30/01/2017 - 11:52
    +1

    One thing to clarify, in pic 1 you are still on the intersection while the light is red - Is there a chance the camera is also a red light camera and it has caught you (and probably the other guy as well) on the intersection? anyway the fine is for speeding so I expect you could contest it successfully as it doesn't seem possible that you could have been speeding whilst turning.

    In regards to the actual sending out of a fine notice when it looks blatantly wrong, if it is a person doing it, then it seems like a simple mistake and it seems absurd that the fine hasn't been cancelled…

    If it is a system sending out the fines then it seems like it is applying some weird logic here, and this should be looked at as I am guessing you aren't the only one who has been wrongly fined. Surely it can't be sending fines to everyone in the right hand lane when someone in the left lane is the one in the wrong???? if the camera is just a speed camera then the system is really broken and lots of the wrong people would have been fined and surely someone would have complained? but if the camera is doing more than one thing at a time then there is definitely potential for a screw up… years of I.T. experience has shown me this, especially when people don't design/program for a situation that is rare but not impossible.

    going out on a limb …If the camera is a red light camera and a speed camera then it seems like the system could be just capturing what it sees as the last offence, when the camera has been triggered by one offence and a 2nd/3rd offence happen moments later i.e. Lane one is speeding, take a photo, lane 1 is still on the intersection when there is a red light - take a picture, lane 3 is still turning on the red light - take a picture. The system has then combined the incidents and issued a ticket for the later red light offence using the details of the first speeding offence …. it could be as simple as issuing a fine with the details of the offence based on a timestamp that doesn't go down to the granularity required… meaning the system will issue a ticket for lane 3 with the details of the offence that occurred in lane 1 because the time stamps are essentially the same.

    Good luck.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/01/2017 - 15:31
      -2

      In regards to the actual sending out of a fine notice when it looks blatantly wrong

      It's only blatantly wrong, if you believe the accompanying commentary posted in this thread…

      An alternate theory is that the car B performed a high-speed right turn from the left most lane.

      I'm sure I'll get lots of down votes for this comment, but I just have trouble believing a computer got it this wrong.

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