How to update BIOS without CPU?

Barbequemilk on 25/01/2017 - 20:19
Last edited 27/01/2017 - 23:17

Hallo guys, i have problem with my new build pc, i bought intel i3 7100 kaby lake, but my motherboard just support sky lake.

I need update my bios to kaby lake, the problem is, it need sky lake cpu to update it and i dont have that.

How can i update without cpu on? Motherboard (h110m-a)

I bought the motherboard from ebay and the rest from msy, do you think they want update it for me if i didnt buy the motherboard from them?

And what ez flash 3 mean? Can i update from internet without cpu?

Update: thanks guys… For your help…. I call pc byte this morning, and they flash the motherboard for me for free…

I did send an email to msy and they said they will flash for me with $10 service fee, but lucky me pc byte flash it for free.

Thanks ozbaargainer for your time.

Computing

Comments

  • OverburdenedWarrior on 25/01/2017 - 20:21

    What motherboard do you have? Have a browse through this, and see if it's supported by your board. (Or an equivalent by another brand.)

    Link: http://event.asus.com/2012/mb/USB_BIOS_Flashback_GUIDE/

    Ah, I see. The H110M-A.
    Let me have a lookie see.

    Edit: It doesn't seem to have an equivalent, sadly. Hopefully somebody else has an idea.

    As for ASUS EZ Flash 3: It "allows you to download and update to the latest BIOS through the Internet without having to use a bootable floppy disk or an OS-based utility."

    • Barbequemilk on 25/01/2017 - 20:29

      Can i swap bios to another motherboard for updating bios chip?

      Do you know where can i buy bios chip replacement?

      • OverburdenedWarrior on 25/01/2017 - 20:37

        It's not something I've done before, so I'm not sure on that one.

        I did find something though, it may or may not work:

        What you need:

        • Any graphics card. It can be ANYTHING as long as it works and you can connect it to your monitor
        • Motherboard that can be updated within the BIOS. In my case it is called Asus EZ Flash 2 (You have EZ Flash 3, so this part is easier.)
        • USB Flash drive
        • Latest BIOS downloaded on another computer

        Method:

        1. Make sure the CPU is correctly installed along with all other components.

        2. Instead of directly connecting your monitor to the motherboard's connectors (HDMI, VGA or DVI), connect it to your graphics card instead
          Most people connect the monitor to the motherboard. This won't work because the screen will be blank and will not pass POST. The workaround is to obtain the display from a separate graphics processor, ie. a graphics card.

        3. Download the latest BIOS on another computer and place this .CAP file on the USB drive. Make sure the usb drive formatted to FAT32

        4. Insert the USB into the computer

        5. Power up your PC. It should work and will allow you to access the BIOS. In my case it was F2. You will now have access to the UEFI BIOS. Go to the motherboard's built-in BIOS update tool and flash the BIOS with the latest one that is located on the USB stick.

        Technically, I can't see anything wrong with this - You only need access to the BIOS, but there's all the chance it'll throw a POST error and not allow you to get that far. If you can get to the BIOS, the rest is easy fix - just run EZ Flash. If you can't, you're back to square one.

        • Barbequemilk on 25/01/2017 - 20:44

          Ehhmmm thanks for your help.. But with this method, will it be any harm to the pc? Sorry , i am newbe

        • OverburdenedWarrior on 25/01/2017 - 20:50

          @Barbequemilk: There shouldn't be any harm. The components are hardware compatible (as in, the pins/set match) and the BIOS simply requires updating to allow software compatibility at system level for the new hardware.

          There's really only two possibilities, it'll start, and allow you to access the BIOS (usually the DEL or F2 keys, but should tell you upon trying to start up)

          OR

          It'll turn on, but beep at you, indicating a POST error related to an invalid/missing CPU. It may or may not allow BIOS access from the error screen (usually F1)

        • Barbequemilk on 25/01/2017 - 22:59

          What .cap name folder? Is it h110m-ab.cap or h110m.cap ?

        • Barbequemilk on 25/01/2017 - 22:59

          What name for the .cap folder? Is it h110m-a.cap or h110m.cap ?

          Cpu that you mention is kaby lake, right? So, what you said is you can update the bios using kaby lake cpu and graphic card?

          Thanks

        • OverburdenedWarrior on 26/01/2017 - 00:26

          @Barbequemilk: I'm fairly certain it's h110m.cap from what I could find.

          Found it. H110MA.CAP

          As for those instructions, they were generic, so not specific to any board or CPU, so the mileage may vary.

        • vinni9284 on 26/01/2017 - 00:47

          If the mobo doesn't read the CPU due to compatibility issues, it will not work.

        • OverburdenedWarrior on 26/01/2017 - 01:04

          @vinni9284: Which was option two as above, it'll get stuck on a POST error. Some boards still allow access to BIOS on a POST error though, which is why the graphics card is required for display to see if this is the case (as POST will error out the iGPU due to compatibility.)

          In my honest opinion, he hasn't got many options in this particular case. If the PC isn't already assembled, I'd say take the board back and either A: Get them to do the upgrade for you. or B: Refund and purchase another board. It's a shame the BIOS Flashback button is only available on the higher-end boards.

        • Barbequemilk on 26/01/2017 - 09:05

          @OverburdenedWarrior:
          I did assembly and put everything on the motherboard except graphic card as i use integrated card. I dont think they will except a refund specially this is my fault. Now i have 2 option, first from you post second i buy intel celeron g3600 skylake 1151 for $49 and sell it on ebay or gumtree.

          What do you think?

        • vinni9284 on 26/01/2017 - 09:24

          @OverburdenedWarrior: It's great that the OP is trying to save his current setup without spending by asking professional IT guru's Ozbargainers for their tips. However going by the mobo, it looks like a cheapie $100 Asus m-ATX. I would say that with all this time spent by people giving advice for a cheap mobo, (even by one poster talking about the EEPROM chip programming) OP should try to get a refund or buy another board. Too many people are wasting their time giving advice on the inevitable. Case closed i would say IMO. Cheers

  • retiredfeline on 25/01/2017 - 20:42

    The update process needs a CPU, it's the only smart thing on a consumer mobo. Any way you can borrow a CPU for this?

    Also it's possible that the mobo will function sufficiently for the update process but not for normal use or perhaps not optimised. What do the documents say about running with Kaby Lake with the old BIOS?

    BIOS chips are usually soldered in and you'd need an identical mobo to swap with anyway.

    Or maybe return for refund?

  • mranderson978 on 25/01/2017 - 20:46

    you need a CPU.
    If you don't have any friends with a compatible CPU, take it into your local computer shop.

    • OverburdenedWarrior on 25/01/2017 - 20:52

      Yeah, typically a shop that builds on demand (so your MSY, CentreCom, ect) may do the update for you. (They'll charge you a fee though.)

      • Barbequemilk on 25/01/2017 - 20:58

        I saw msy website, it will update for you as long you buy motherboard from them.. The problem is i just bought cpu, hardrive, ram, and optical drive, do you think they will update for me? Because their customer service too rude..

        • OverburdenedWarrior on 25/01/2017 - 21:00

          Did you buy it from them and have a valid receipt? If so, it might be worth a try. As you said though, their customer service leaves much to be desired. I'd save yourself a trip and give them a call first.

        • Barbequemilk on 25/01/2017 - 21:05

          @OverburdenedWarrior:

          I bought motherboard from pc byte.. Do pc byte update bios? I did message them and still waiting for confrimation.

        • OverburdenedWarrior on 25/01/2017 - 21:08

          @Barbequemilk: Nothing on their website about it, but I'm sure they'd be able to help you out and if not, be able to point you in the direction of somebody local that can.

        • Diji1 on 26/01/2017 - 00:17

          @Barbequemilk: i hope you aren't expecting an answer.

  • Adz81 on 25/01/2017 - 20:59
    +7

    Best thing to do here is waiting for Scrimshaw to explain clearly how this would work, sadly if he says it can't be done, it's time to rethink your plan…

    By far, one of the most helpful cats on this site.

    • scrimshaw on 25/01/2017 - 21:24
      +7

      Overburdened warrior has already covered most of the basics, there is nothing more I can add.

      There are other ways as mentioned — borrow somebody else's CPU, or get a computer shop to do it.

      The other hacky ways of performing a BIOS flash (usually using a BIOS flashing tool) or replacing it with a different BIOS chip is pretty difficult and not likely a viable option

    • mskeggs on 25/01/2017 - 21:44
      +3

      I see I'm not the only one who waits to see what scrimshaw suggests…

      • Adz81 on 25/01/2017 - 22:44
        +1

        Yep.

        Always one to read and not just scroll past.

    • PJC on 25/01/2017 - 23:33

      Agreed.

  • altomic on 25/01/2017 - 22:35
    +4

    Bikies

    • Diji1 on 26/01/2017 - 00:19

      This ^

  • Diji1 on 26/01/2017 - 00:19

    Buy a second hand sky lake cpu from ebay or wherever, update your bios and then sell it.

  • vinni9284 on 26/01/2017 - 00:45
    +1

    Unfortunately, you need all the bits to update, CPU, RAM & VGA to Monitor.
    How is the motherboard going to function without all this?
    The option is to return the mobo for a refund if you can or buy a really cheap, entry level previous gen CPU and flash.
    Either way it's going to cost you. I won't go replacing the BIOS chip as there is a risk you will brick the board.

    Good luck

  • Mumbles on 26/01/2017 - 05:58

    There is a way to flash your BIOS onto the flash chip without a CPU but it will void your warranty and you'll need to borrow an EEPROM programmer. It is a very complex procedure and I don't recommend unless you're an electrical engineer or a hardware guru, plus have steady hands.

    EEPROM programmers can be found at university engineering labs as well as some TAFE Engineering laboratories. Many of the early Pay TV subscribers also bought them.

    You will have to physically remove the flash chip from your motherboard (this will void your warranty + easy to bend/snap off a leg).
    Ensure that the EEPROM programmer has an updated database containing the model of your flash chip. Otherwise you'll have to research your flash chip and manually enter the settings into the EEPROM programmer (eg. Voltage, parity bit = 0/1, number of bits, memory size, starting address, baud rate, etc).
    Obtain the motherboard BIOS file in .BIN format.

    A long time ago I went through all of this to flash a 486 motherboard to make it work with a 75Mhz Intel Pentium Overdrive CPU. It cost me dozens of car trips to the TAFE + electronic store. Plus I wasted another $80 to buy a brand new 1MB flash chip after I thought I fried the original flash ROM.

    Things would have worked out cheaper and quicker if I had just sold the old motherboard and bought myself a new motherboard.

    • Barbequemilk on 26/01/2017 - 08:41

      It seems too complicated for me but thanks for your explanation, i better buy intel celeron g3600 1151 skylake for $49 update it and sell it on ebay or gumtree.

      Thanks

    • retiredfeline on 26/01/2017 - 09:00

      Things are much more complicated with EEPROM chips now. Firstly most likely it's soldered in. And nowadays they can be organised not as a simple bank of memory but divided into segments some of which may require special access procedures like enabling a bit in a register first. So really it's no longer a viable method for all but the hardcore hardware hacker.

      • Barbequemilk on 26/01/2017 - 09:17

        Yes, it too complicated and its only for someone hardcore hardware as you said,

        • vinni9284 on 26/01/2017 - 09:32

          If you are finding this all complicated considering many posters have given you sound advice.

          This is what I would do (Not in order)

          1 - Refund on the board.
          2 - If no refund, flog it off on Gumtree with a loss
          3 - Get another newer compatible board that has "Kaby Lake Compatible" sticker on it (and ensure that the website has your model CPU as compatible).
          4 - Get a cheap previous gen CPU to flash (But then even a cheap CPU may cost you $50 hence better get a new board.
          5 - Go to the computer shop MSY (they will charge you anyway) to flash mobo. IMO, their customer service is well ……… welll hmmmm!

          Best option = 2 & 3

          Unfortunately, you have lost in this one however count this as a learning curve. Your mobo is a cheapie so you have haven't lost too much dough.

          Cheers

    • vinni9284 on 26/01/2017 - 09:42

      Hi Mumbles, I love you passion for Electronics as I have the same.

      But for some reason, I don't think that the OP is going to do a 4 year B.Eng (Electronics) Degree and be in FEE HELP debt to fix his $100 mobo.

      Cheers :-)

  • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2017 - 09:32

    You don't and there is no way around that unless you can borrow a cpu

    pretty simple
    in the old days you used to be able to just burn the eeproms and plug a new later version in but its all changed today

    Case closed, either pay for another CPU / Borrow one, there is not much you can do, Although I am a little baffled as to why you didn't update the bios before changing the hardware over if you indeed are upgrading but if its a new board / cpu I would always spend a little more to get a reputable gigabyte / Asus board that has compatiblity out of the box without fluffing around

    • Barbequemilk on 26/01/2017 - 13:24

      My budget for build the pc around $500, and i dont know about motherboard, would you like recommend me a good budget motherboard? Maybe i will ask refund for the motherboard. Thanks

  • haha on 26/01/2017 - 16:35
    +2

    scorptec can update your bios for $19
    https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Services/Software-Servic…

    MSY charges $10

    So for convenience, just pay for the service :)

    • Barbequemilk on 26/01/2017 - 17:07

      Yes, i want to go to msy, but unfortunately msy only do update for people that buy their motherboard from them although i bougth some cpu ram hardrive psu, i dont think they wil update it for me as you know the customer service, i tried call this morning and they didnt pick up their phone.

      I really thanksfull for you guys spare a time for me to solve my problem.. Thanks all

      • haha on 26/01/2017 - 17:18

        Maybe try emailing them and explain your situation rather than calling.
        They seem to respond by Facebook and email and not by phone.
        Best of luck :)

      • [Deactivated] on 27/01/2017 - 02:20

        Honestly I would be interested to know if they will. I'm pretty sure they would. Some MSYs are better than others of course, and you tend to get better service if they know you as a good customer.

        • vinni9284 on 27/01/2017 - 12:11

          They probably wont because if the flash fails then they can handball the mobo to their supplier (if has been purchased @ MSY) as defective rather than wearing the liability. Cheers :-)

        • [Deactivated] on 27/01/2017 - 12:51

          @vinni9284: HAve you tried? Or are you just guessing? Presumably if it fails you could just RMA it with wherever you bought it from.

        • vinni9284 on 27/01/2017 - 12:59

          @The Land of Smeg: I'm guessing here hence I have used the word "probably" as I would "presume" that is it business acumen to take less risk with an item that not purchased from them. I would say that if it's proven from the manufacturer that an RMA has a been lodged due to a bad flash, they will waive warranty. However the OP can try and see if MSY accepts to perform a BIOS update with a mobo that has been purchased elsewhere but I doubt it.

        • [Deactivated] on 27/01/2017 - 13:18

          @vinni9284: Sorry mate, I'm looking for verification here, not guesses.

        • vinni9284 on 27/01/2017 - 13:24

          @The Land of Smeg: Sure. If that is your urgency rather than waiting for the OP's (or other) feedback then it's best to give them a call and explain the scenario. That will save you countless time here waiting for a response. Opinions are allowed last time I can remember on this site, unless you are the moderator and made changes to the User Agreement?

        • [Deactivated] on 27/01/2017 - 14:27
          +1

          @vinni9284: Everyone knows that they never answer their phones, I'd have to wait until the next time I go down there - unless someone else here has already asked. You are allowed your opinion, and your opinions are perfectly reasonable and valid, however I wanted to know if they will.

        • vinni9284 on 27/01/2017 - 14:39
          +1

          @The Land of Smeg: "Everyone knows that they never answer their phones" LOL so true!!! You might not even get an answer in person LOL.

        • [Deactivated] on 28/01/2017 - 19:45

          @vinni9284: Good news! I got an email reply back from my local store:

          We only deal with the one purchased in MSY.

        • vinni9284 on 30/01/2017 - 13:00

          @The Land of Smeg: Yep, I thought so! Are you happy that you have received a definitive answer or the fact that they have actually replied? … or both? :-)

        • retiredfeline on 30/01/2017 - 13:08

          @The Land of Smeg: Post full headers of the email or it didn't happen. :)

          That's really amazing. I once ordered a monitor from MSY. It sat in their system for a month. Tried calling, emailing: no reply, nada. Gave up and bought it from IJK for about the same price and picked up after a couple of days. As far as I know my order is still in MSY's system.

          I should have paid attention to the purported expansion of MSY: Maybe Stock Yesterday.

        • [Deactivated] on 30/01/2017 - 13:56
          +1

          @vinni9284: hahaha, yes both. The guy at my local store isn't too bad and he always emails me pickup confirmations so I thought it was worth a shot to skip head office on this one.

          I'm not going to name the store because it could be against their policy to reply to customers or something and I don't want to get them into trouble

        • vinni9284 on 30/01/2017 - 14:28

          @The Land of Smeg: LOL. If I were you, I will play Tattslotto this weekend due to this epiphany!!! You'll have more probability of winning division 1 then getting "another" answer/call/reply from them.. Good to hear you got a response though. Cheers

  • aussieprepper on 27/01/2017 - 05:40

    Does it log into the Bios?

  • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2017 - 14:03

    The only option I could see as others have said is going to a PC store and see if they can do a BIOS update for your motherboard at a cost or buying a BIOS chip which is user serviceable. (I have done a quick google search of your motherboard and yes it's user serviceable)

    To purchase a BIOS chip
    You will have to buy a pre-programmed BIOS chip for your particular motherboard, I used this seller on eBay before to replace a bad bios flash on a motherboard that won't even POST anymore which would cost you about $15USD ($20AUD) and shipping will take a couple of weeks to get to your place.

    Here is a Youtube guide on how to replace the BIOS chip. Make sure that you place the BIOS chip in the same position as the old one or you may burn out your BIOS chip.

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