Guys,
Have moved to current address for over a year and still get mail from previous tenant, of all sorts, banks, tele, etc.
Returned to sender numerous times but the mail still won't stop.
What's the best way to handle this? Seems that fine is hard to implement, then what?
Cheers,
Deep lurker
Yeah that's that I did and eventually the flow dried up.
BTW OP, s/from/for/ in title. I thought the previous tenants were hassling you.
REGEXP FTW
I still get superannuation statements, bank statements, etc
Same with my old place too. And that lady was dead!
I also got a free gift card which was a nice little present (before I get negged, that was an accident, I opened the mail thinking it was my MyerOne account but turns out it was $20 gift card for them)
Same things happened to me… Received a $100 Myer One card addressed to old owners but my damn conscience wouldn't let me spend it! :(
You don't belong here
but my damn conscience wouldn't let me spend it! :(
Mine will. As a supreme altruist, let me relieve you of your burden by taking it off your hands.
;)
Happens a lot. Some people just don't care to advice co's of change of address at all and most co's just don't take notice of returned mail. All you can do is just mark it with a big marker… "NATA ? years" and draw a line through any barcodes on the envelope.
nata?
nata?
Perhaps, Not at this address?
Where is this postmaster?
Explain that you are the sole Tenant now and that their continued delivery of Mail other than that addressed to you constitutes a nuisance.
The postman delivers to the address written on the mail/package. I think he would fine it a nuisance for him to check the name of every envelope before putting it in your mailbox.
Also, you can't expect the postman to remember the names of all the people in each household to who he delivers the mail.
Sesame street.
If Aus post were to do it, it wouldnt be the local postman that would have to deal with it. Like their mail redirect service, it would all be taken care of automatically via computer before the postman sees it.
you can't expect the postman to remember the names of all the people in each household to who he delivers the mail
Not anymore :(
I think he would fine it a nuisance for him to check the name of every envelope before putting it in your mailbox.
That's actually quite common in many places in Europe. When I first came here, I found it odd that there's no name plate next to someone's doorbell.
Won't work. As per Aus Post:
Please note: If you are receiving mail for a previous tenant we must continue to deliver that mail as addressed unless the previous tenants submits a mail redirection request or updates their address details directly with the sender/s.
Oh well, they used to. Things change.
In that event, I'd just toss the mail.
If a tenant really wanted it they would have put a redir in place.
I think that's technically illegal to toss it.
Sucks but you have to rts it.
Just throw it in the bin. You are under no legal obligation to do anything with it
^ This
If you do that, mail from other tenants never stop coming. I always do an RTS and over time I get less mail.
OP has already done RTS so obviously these companies aren't changing their database
Yep, some companies are useless.
For over a year, we were RTS monthly letters from Telstra. Finally got one from their collections arm (googled the address on the envelope).
Trying to avoid the old resident from defaulting (although, not updating their details, they probably deserved it), I tried calling, emailing, twitter and facebook to tell them that person was no longer this address and why aren't they ignoring RTS. Got no where. After a few more months, they finally stopped.
"Just throw it in the bin. You are under no legal obligation to do anything with it"
Is it true that you are allowed to throw other people's mail in the bin? Regardless, I think there's a moral obligation to RTS all letters. We cannot know why the person didn't redirect their mail, and the mail might be important.
EDIT: A comment lower down clarifies the law: "Australia Post is the only body that can legally dispose of mail and there are specific guidelines under which they do it. Interfering with mail may be an offence, so you should return incorrectly delivered mail…"
So throwing mail in the bin is not only immoral, it's illegal.
I always RTS when it seems reasonable, specifically if it says "Infringement Court" or something like that on them, but we also get freaking 3 RACV magazines every month and no way to stop them. It's surely reasonable to bin them.
I really can't be bothered going to the post office every week for this.
I emailed [email protected] and gave the 3 names I was receiving RACV magazines for, email was acknowledged and they stopped pretty soon
Return incorrectly delivered mail so it can be redelivered to. A fun game for all the family.
This quite reasonable to do for the first few months after moving in. If you're receiving mail 10 years down the track I'd say your moral obligations ended long ago.
I am not aware of anyone being charged for throwing a former tennant's mail in the bin, despite it being illegal according to the information found below. I would like a reference to the actual law that requires you to go to any effort to send it back.
No there isn't. These selfish idiots just don't care, and don't care about the new tenant's hassle. They're lucky they don't get it opened - into the bin.
You are legally obliged to return the mail. Mail tampering is an offense, but like many other laws, it goes largely ignored.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/num_act/tapspacaa1989…
"85R. A person shall not knowingly or recklessly cause a postal message to be
delivered to or received by a person other than the person to whom it is
directed or that person's authorised agent.
Penalty: Imprisonment for 1 year. Improper use of postal services
"85U. A person shall not knowingly or recklessly obstruct or hinder the
carriage by post of any article.
Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years. Interference with property of Australia
Post
@stormii: 5 years jail. Lol. Wouldn't even make it to court these days. I think it's still against the law to sneeze in public but no one has been prosecuted under this law
(c) steal, or fraudulently conceal, misappropriate or destroy, a mail-bag
or an article in the course of post (including an article that appears
to have been lost or wrongly delivered by Australia Post or lost in
the course of delivery to Australia Post).
"85L. (1) A person shall not fraudulently open or tamper with:
(a) a mail-bag; or
(b) an article in the course of post.
Penalty: Imprisonment for 5 years.
"85P. (1) A person shall not:
(a) fraudulently or with intent to prevent the due sending, carriage,
delivery or receipt of a postal message, take a postal message from
the possession of an employee of Australia Post;
(b) fraudulently take a postal message from any place or vehicle in use by
Australia Post; or
(c) steal, or fraudulently conceal, misappropriate or destroy, a postal
message.
@stormii:
I'm not sure about that.
If Australia Post (as mentioned above) insist that they are legally obliged to delivery mail to your address, even if they know the recipient doesn't live there any more, I would argue that the mail is neither "in course of post" (not any more) nor "wrongly delivered".
You don't steal nor misappropriate it either.
Does throwing it into the bin count as "destroying"?
I'd say just don't open it and you'll be fine.
Yes disposing of destroying it.
I said legally obliged and that it is rarely enforced, but pedanticism here seems to only stretch as far as deliberately trying to misinterpret a message you got just fine because you are a petty so and so.
"85R. A person shall not knowingly or recklessly cause a postal message to be delivered to or received by a person other than the person to whom it is directed or that person's authorised agent.
So if you've already notified Telstra etc they don't live there, and the company recklessly continues to send you letters wouldn't they be in breach of 85R? I don't know how this helps though.
@orza: I do not know, it is up to a court to decide how to interpret a law, and for a lawyer to skew the vision to his bias. No matter what people "reckon" on OzB, it is best to read the legislation and get a lawyer if you don't understand it or think it can be viewed in a different light. A good lawyer could probably argue each of these points in a court of law, a bad one could visit you in jail. I can see circumstances where people would implement these laws. If someone had destroyed important or sentimental mail, if they were a company dealing with sensitive trade secrets, or a government who is looking for any way it can to grab for a bit of cash and getting quite creative about it.
"85U. A person shall not knowingly or recklessly obstruct or hinder the
carriage by post of any article.
Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years. Interference with property of Australia
Does this means those postie that didn't bother to deliver package can be jailed for 2 years?
@cimot: I would love to have the spare cash floating about to try that one out, I am sick of parcel cards when I was home, I pay good money for delivery (well, I am supposed too, I usually only buy if it is free ship though), and am jack of having to pay the expenses associated with getting it that last 2ks home.
Edit: The thing with the law is that is is not implemented unless they are already after you. People pirate stuff, speed, avoid taxes, smoke weed and throw mail in the trash everyday, even though those things are against the law. Not everyone gets busted for it though, it does not make any of those things legal. I jumped into the convo because it was being stated there was nothing illegal about chucking out mail, there is, now as adults we all get to choose how we abide by that law.
@stormii: I had this issue too early last year.
Delivery address is a business address and someone is in the office between 8am-6pm. But for some reason postie always putting calling cards in the mailbox, simply because he doesn't want to take his time to go up the lift. No one heard door bell ringing.
We complained for months and finally they replace the postie (or maybe assign him to another area).
@stormii: none of that says you have to care about properly delivered mail some idiot didn't update.
That sounds like "in the process of delivery"…but if it has been delivered to the correct address stated, then the resident didn't breach these law. Resident didn't steal, conceal, destroy "in the course" of that delivery/post.
Resident also did not prevent the sending, carriage, delivery or receipt. The letter has been delivered to the address.
Only thing is 85p(c ) - destroy a postal message. hmm… i wonder if "bin it" counts as destroy. lol. What's the penalty in that?
@fallentenshi: I am not reading the legislation all again, but i recall something about properly delivered meaning to the addressee, not the address.
Why it is not an offence for people not changing the address or companies who do not update their systems after sending letters back multiple times
If you have been living their for quite some time now, you can start shredding or putting them in bin. If it is important the person will contact the company directly.
So after having been told 1/2 hour before you posted this,that it's illegal you still post it
This is what I do lol, chuck all of them into the bin and forget about it
Save them until you get a dozen, put a rubber band around them with one note "RTS", and then put them into the letter box.
I did this and they simply redelivered it back to me!
lol
Some letters have these funny yellow lines at the bottom that look a bit like a bar code. This actually is a bar code containing a delivery point identifier (DPID) which points to a street address.
These get automatically scanned in the processing facility and then sorted to be delivered again.
You need to strike it through, make it "unscannable". That way, a human will process the letter and they will understand the RTS.
To be entirely sure, strike through the delivery address, circle the return address and put RTS in big red letters on the front.
Always works for me.
These get automatically scanned in the processing facility and then sorted to be delivered again.
Yes, that's the purpose of the barcode - but the letter always reaches a human before it reaches your letter box (that's your mailman/woman). Each letter is sorted by them the morning of the delivery before they go on their round actually putting mail in letter boxes.
If they're doing their job they'll intercept the mail at that point and send it the right way (i.e. back to the sender). It will take longer to be returned to the sender, but presumably you don't care about that.
Cite: I used to work at Aus Post
@AlanI:
Yeah, I agree, but I am not surprised that the mail man doesn't carefully inspect each letter if maybe there's a small RTS written on it somewhere.
That's why I said, strike through the delivery address and make the RTS as obvious as possible.
I heard from Auspost people in Sunshine that it's a common problem that people just chuck RTS mail into the mailbox again with a small RTS in the corner, or even nothing at all.
Always cross your address out, it then doesn't come back to u.
make a small slit in the side of each envelop. insert thick piece of iron. seal up envelop. RTS. sender gets charged for over weight letters/insufficent postage
Haha, that's good.
But if the envelope has RTS marked on it, the PO has delivered it - too late to bill them for overweight.
it will send a message to the sender….
But the letter doesn't go back through the same sorting system. i.e. address reader, stamp reader, weight "reader" dimensions reader,
It enters the system further down the track somewhere, so it misses the weight reader because it presumes it already has be weighed previously and passed the test.
Some or even most return addresses are on the back of the envelope, so putting the envelope through the sorter from the start again would be futile.
My response to OP is: if the addressee doesn't want to setup and pay for a redirection of their main (3 months, 6 months, 1 year)l, then it can't be important to them, so why are you wasting your time, especially AFTER 1year after all their annual bills have passed.
I'd give it 2 months RTS then bin it all. Most of it will be crap mail anyway.
Not sure if the sender would get charged for it, but if a standard letter contains heavy objects like coins or a thick piece of iron, the high-speed sorting machines used by Australia Post do have a habit of launching that content catastrophically. There are safety barriers around them so people don't get injured when nanna puts a dollar coin in her letter. It also explains why her coin often doesn't arrive or the envelope looks like a birth scene from an Alien movie.
"birth scene from an Alien movie"
Upvote
Having watched my two kids being delivered, there's not much difference between the birth scene from an Alien movie and a human birth. :-/
Had mail to a place once which was interesting.
It started with a fine for littering (throwing cigarette out the car window)
Then failure to pay the fine meant court case
Failure to show up to court meant suspended drivers license.
And before anyone bitches about opening it… Oh well, the address would've been linked to that person's drivers license address. If they a) cbf changing that over 6 months, and b) openly throw cigarette butts out the window, then oh well :)
Good move.
I had a Sheriff's officer come to my front door four or five times over the course of about six months. I never met them because I was at work, but they would leave a card with a handwritten note asking the previous tenant to call.
When I moved in I received lots of mail for the previous owners. For 2 months I re-mailed it "no longer at this address". After that I destroyed their mail as revenge for spending money getting keys made for the garage.
After a while, the only logic thing to do is to get the mail straight from mailbox to litter box.
Or, the purest solution, go buy a brand new home that has no previous tenants!
Also this reveals just how messed up some companies' software systems are! Huge business opportunity!
empty block of land…..(true I did buy it from someone) - but as soon as the slab was laid and a frame starting going up - I started getting someones letters dumped on the front patio!
Yep, I once moved into a brand new apartment and even when the first inspections were conducted, there was already heaps of crap in all the mailboxes, mostly Telcos advising that this building has NBN. Was very hard to get them to stop :(
after a few years i opened the mail and called the company up and gave them the details and they promptly stopped all letters going to my address. was easy enough and then shredded the letters
Why Not Fine Tenants Who Don't Change Address after Moving
That's a great idea.
Send the fine to the last known address.
Yes, use big data to figure out where the previous tenants went. I'm sure it will be a great success, like Centrelink. Oh wait, Centrelink was sending debt recovery letters to last known address too. ;)
This is what I've found on http://www.ombudsman.gov.au/making-a-complaint/how-to-make-a…
"Before contacting the PIO with your complaint, we ask that you pursue the matter as far as possible with the postal operator.
Mail may be received at an address for past occupants, or may be incorrectly delivered to an adjacent or similar sounding address. These are two different issues: in one case the mail is being delivered as addressed; in the other it is not.
As a general rule, Australia Post completes delivery of a postal article when it places the article in a mail box at the addressed premises, or hands the article to a person who is apparently a responsible resident of the premises. This also applies to private mail boxes, where delivery is completed when the article is put into the mail box. Australia Post does not have an obligation to ensure that the addressee lives at the address. These arrangements are in keeping with Australia Post's terms and conditions.
What to do with mail that is not for you
Australia Post will no longer accept customers' requests that mail for previous occupants be automatically returned to sender (RTS). Australia Post's policy is to 'deliver as addressed'. This means that Australia Post will generally deliver a mail article to the address on the article, irrespective of the name of the addressee, unless there is a mail redirection or mail hold in place for those addressees.
Where a former occupant has left an address and does not have a redirection or hold in place, their mail will generally continue to be delivered to their former address. The current occupant should mark the front of the article as 'return to sender' and 'no longer at this address' and, optionally, 'please update your records', and re-post it to the sender. Mail must not be opened. There is no fee for returning to sender unopened articles.
Alternatively, if the current occupant knows the former occupant's new address, the current occupant may choose to forward the article to the former occupant by crossing out the old address, adding the new address, and re-posting the article. Mail must not be opened. There is no fee for re-posting unopened ordinary letter articles in this way. There is a fee (standard postal charges) for re-posting mail other than ordinary letter articles (for example, parcel or Express Post articles) to anyone other than the sender.
The current occupant may wish to raise with the former occupant, if known to them, the option of putting in place a redirection or hold with Australia Post.
Can I just throw it in the bin?
Australia Post is the only body that can legally dispose of mail and there are specific guidelines under which they do it. Interfering with mail may be an offence, so you should return incorrectly delivered mail as advised above."
Note: the link is broken - remove the colon.
The best advice is contained in this sentence:
The current occupant should mark the front of the article as 'return to sender' and 'no longer at this address' and, optionally, 'please update your records', and re-post it to the sender.
In my experience it takes about six months for the mail to taper off and still got an occasional letter after a two years. It's annoying, but not a huge inconvenience in the scheme of things as I would let it pile up and only post it suited me.
Honestly OP is it taking that much time out of your life to write RTS on the envelope and leave it out for the postie's next run?
Where do you leave it? I thought you'd have to send it yourself? If you left it in your mail box would the postie actually check inside and take it?
There is a bank of boxes at my place and free space. Or on top of the boxes. Or batch them up like Peck suggested and toss into a posting box whenever convenient. I reckon you should tell your previous owners you did a RTS and will not keep mail for them anymore.
Why stop at fining them, we could bring back corporal punishment & give offenders a few licks of the cane, that oughta learn 'em! ;)
Licking the cane…?!
Jees I wonder what you get up to on a Friday night 😂
They Stew Balls!
I bought a house and the previous owners still come around to my house to pick up their mail. They even ask me to call them when I get something of theirs. They reckon they contacted every company they ever got mail off and asked them to redirect the mail, but the company's must have got it wrong and not updated on some occasions, yeah right…
TL:DR some people are just stingy on paying for a mail redirection, RTS your mail and hope for the best.
Write "not here for X months/years" on envelope
Put the mail in a new large envelope
Mail to Sender
Do not use a stamp
Sender gets charged for oversize letter + fine for no stamp
That doesn't work. You need to use the original envelope, unopened for RTS. Otherwise you gotta put a stamp on it.
I stopped reading at "FINE TENANTS"
what body levies the fine? They arent even tenants any more.
Exercise your rubbish bin.
Or recycle bins if applicable.
If you have a Property Manager, pass the mails to them. They should have the Previous Tenants forwarding address.
I just feel sorry for AusPos for doing this free delivery called RTS. So I bundle them up.
Some mails just seems suspicious. Examples City Council, Energex/Origin or any utilities in name of one of the spouses, Queensland Transport….
This! I usually just leave a stack on the kitchen table for the Property manager to pickup on their house inspections
Get a large bottle and collect as much mail in it as you can,
seal it up with a very sarcastic note,
and throw it in the ocean
good way to make news in 50 years!
I print out 24 "Return to Sender - No longer at address" labels at a time and keep near my front hallway.
Complain to daemon, he seems to be the culprit
Whoosh…for most people.
Deep lurker.. Previous tenant.. Daemon..i see what you did there.. Matt daemon
Continue doing what you're doing. We have lived here for over 10 years and still occasionally get mail for other people.