My ex BF is in hospital. He has fallen on hard times and I lent him over $100,000, which he has not repaid. He is now destitute. I feel I've done enough for him. I think there is a chance he could die soon. He has adult children. One of these kids, has sold a house and should have somewhere between $20k-70k. Unless they spent it. If he dies, and no one else will pay for a funeral and I guilt myself into it, what would I be up for, $ wise? What is the minimum I can get away with? It would be in nsw.
Funeral for Ex BF. Cost
voteoften on 08/01/2017 - 15:22
Last edited 08/01/2017 - 15:22
Last edited 08/01/2017 - 15:22
Comments
voteoften: "he is now destitute"
cymon: "claim as much of his estate as you can"
me: does a quick Google of the definition of the word 'destitute' in case English has changed recently.
Defintion of destitute:
adjective
extremely poor and lacking the means to provide for oneself.synonyms: penniless, impoverished, poverty-stricken, poor, impecunious, indigent, down and out, pauperized, without a penny to one's name, without two farthings/pennies to rub together, not having.
Ahhh Ozbargain advice. 👍
He probably has assets that can be liquidated. He might have valuables she doesn't know about. She should get access before his children do.
Cymon is right. This guy sounds like he has a stubborn personality, so you never know what is hidden out there. If he is in denial about his health he may have hidden things believing he will get time to use them. Or he may be pretending he has no money as a way to get sympathy from his estranged children and ex partner.
If he has ever worked there may be superannuation fund/s out there he could have even forgotten about, which may have life insurance policies attached. Either could at least have the funds for a funeral.
If she wants to continue to help for her own peace of mind she should also look out for herself.
No. The advice was terrible.
Cymon answered the question: what's the best way to get back my $100k loan from a person who has nothing? (Which wasn't asked)
Then the solution posted (to the phantom question) included incurring legal fees and potentially starting a major beef with her ex BFs kids.
@mooney:
So it's better to be destitute yourself than hurt someone's feelings who probably doesn't care about you.I gave the advice she needed.
@cymon: I don't think it implies anywhere in her post lending the money has made her destitute. I also don't think anywhere in my posts do I suggest that is a good idea to become destitute. I think you read way more into words than I am able to, you clearly have a gift. :)
I don't know, but I know of two people recently that haven't had funerals. One donated their body to science and one was just cremated with no funeral. Both of these outcomes were chosen by the people while they were still alive.
So maybe you don't have to pay for a funeral at all. Just don't have a funeral. If his kids want one, they can pay for it.
Isn't there paupers funerals, where the govt pays? Is that still a thing?
I don't have to do anything. I'm just saying I'm conflicted. I've done more for him than anyone and don't know how I'll feel if he dies and no one else can/will pay. I want an idea of what the minimum costs will be. I definitely will not pay for a wake.
Does your ex BF have a Will?
I believe he does and that it does not cover his wishes. He has nothing. Getting my money back is probably not gong to happen. I only mentioned the loan so people would understand why I want to limit my contribution.
You have my sympathies for everything you are going through. I'm sure even though you are no longer together it must still be difficult to see your ex in this situation.
That being said you have no legal, ethical or moral obligation to pay for his funeral. None whatsoever. He's your ex and he's probably an ex for a good reason.
Should he die, he's not going to know what sort of funeral he will have. It could be a lavish one or a simple cremation. Either way he's not going to see it so it doesn't matter.
You may want to ease his last days on earth by telling him (and ONLY him. Definitely not anybody else) that you will cover his expenses so that he is able to rest easy. But under no circumstances should you pay a single cent.
You said he's got children… I'm assuming they're not your kids. It is up to THEM (as well as any of his brothers/sisters or immediate family) to pay for the funeral.
The fact that you have already given him $100,000 and he has not repaid it should also point to the fact that he and his family are takers so don't be conned into lending them the money for the funeral either. There's no need to throw more money down that drain because you KNOW they're not going to repay you.
By the way, what does your husband think of this? Does he know you gave your ex $100,000 and are now considering paying for his funeral?
The over $100k is well known. I haven't discussed with anyone the funeral. I can't tell him I'll pay and not do it. He's ndenial anyway. Sigh. Thanks.
Direct cremation. Cheapest I can find with a very quick search is $1995 in NSW. For some reason they are much cheaper in Queensland. I wonder why that is? Anyway.
http://www.australiandirectcremations.com/cremation-only-low…
Thanks. They will do that for free since he is destitute. I'm pretty sure he wants to be buried. In that case they stick them in an unmarked shared grave.
Why wouldn't his own children pay for his funeral?
If they don't get along, why would they pay for his funeral? We don't know what kind of relationship they've had with their father.
No we don't, that's why I asked.
LOL. They don't get along but they were happy to get the $70,000 from the sale of one of his properties.
While we don't know what sort of relationship they had with their dad, we do know what sort of relationship the OP had with him. The guy is now her EX!
Where does it say his child sold the fathers property?
One of these kids, has sold a house and should have somewhere between $20k-70k.
This could mean they have sold one of their own houses.
I'm sorry to hear of your situation, and I feel for both of you :(
I'd seek legal advice about the money side of things. Moral support is fine on a forum, but take financial advice here with a grain of salt.
Personally, I'd probably offer to share funeral costs with family, and that's being generous without knowing your relationship with this person.Without knowing the ins and outs of the situation, it's hard to know exactly where to start, and sharing that with a lawyer may be well worthwhile.
I'd be curious about the possibility of any insurances and superannuation payouts if the worst does happen.
Super funds can pay life insurance and can pay for funerals, depending on the circumstances.
If there is an amount there, my opinion (I stress - my opinion) is that you should be entitled to the first 100K, especially if it's a known and undisputed debt.
Don't leave it too late, as things usually get ugly when family and money are involved.
Find out, get legal advice, and get on the will asap if there will be any payout.Best of luck!
Why should the OP share the funeral costs with the family? Do you not understand what an "ex" is?
If the family wants a funeral then they should be paying for it!
Just basing it on the wording of the post and the fact OP is considering paying the whole thing.
She obviously still cares about the ex, something that may be foreign to you or other people in reading other comments here.It's just stating a meet in the middle option, nothing more.
FWIW, I think it's a noble gesture, as long as it's not purely from guilt. We don't know the whole story.
He knows who owes who. His funeral is not your problem. Do not guilt yourself into more expense.
The funeral costs are not your problem, don't let them become your problem. It's up to the exector of the will to divide the estate and pay funeral costs out of it.
Register the $100,000 debt. The executor of the estate has to publish a probate notice via NSW courts (online now from memory) - keep an eye out for the notice and register your debt. https://onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw.gov.au
I doubt you will get much though; assets are sold and if not enough money to pay creditors, unsecured debts go to the bottom of the pile and don't get paid out unless enough $$$ there. People can be absolutely destitute and still hold a small fortune in superannuation and other "vested" investments that they havent been able to liquidate.
Thanks everyone for your comments. I don't think any more are necessary.
He has adult children. One sold their house and has not repurchased. Based on their unhealthy relationship with money, I don't know if they would have any left. There are other older family members that may contribute, but their circumstances are not that great. I guess I will just wait and see if he dies this time and if so, if I'm asked for money.
I am a very soft touch. I can not sleep easily if I know I can help someone who is in genuine need. I even have my ex husbands new child in my will. Because she is my child's family. In the scheme of what would be my estate, it is nominal, but for some people it would be life changing. I just can't help myself.
For those that bring up the debt, yes I will pursue it from his estate, but I think his chattels, including car would be worth less than $20,000. He has no life insurance or super. He went bankrupt in the gfc.
Thanks again everyone, for your insights, good thoughts and suggestions.
I am sympathetic to your position, and hope you don't feel badly.
Perhaps an approach is to let the relatives know you would make a small contribution to any funeral arrangements they decide on. A few hundred dollars might be a generous offer for an ex who has fallen on hard times.Sometimes when people discover nobody else is going to do it for them, they rise to the occasion. Your ex's relatives will need to consider what they feel is right with the knowledge they will bear responsibility. This is especially important if you feel they might otherwise expect you to organise everything, because they might then be unjustly angry when you don't.
I wouldn't be too concerned about your ex's desires for a certain type of funeral etc. If one is relying on the generosity of others, it isn't very reasonable to make demands.
I agree with mskeggs. People do rise to the occasion especially in times like this. I think if you pass the hat around, you're giving people the opportunity to do just that, and giving yourself the opportunity to contribute without having to bear the entire cost.
I think you are both correct in this regard. I think I'm just too used to doing it all myself.
My ex bf got extremely wealthy very early in life. Right time, right charisma, right skill set. His children flew first class internationally at full cost. They were raised to believe it took no effort to make money, dad would always bail them out (multiple times), and that they were entitled to the good life. They will always spend more than they have. They are too old to change. One or two are estranged but he hears about them from the one he is close to. They are living hand to mouth and making stupid mistakes ( like not paying their etag toll thing because they are too tired then running up thousands in fines or like not paying council rates for three years but still taking fabulous international holidays to expensive places like NYC.). So, whether the one has the money from their house sale, I don't know. I do know they go through money like water.
In fact the question that still hasn't been answered, is what can I/we/they get away with? Insofar as costs. For a burial. Not a cremation. I refuse to pay for food or drink for these people because many are very entitled and others were used to the ex bf picking up outrageous tabs for expensive parties and still have that expectation. I think I will stay out if it and just wait. He may not even die this time, but he will at some stage. In this case, I prefer to think out my response, as I do tend to just immediately offer to help. I'll have to wait out the awkwardness of not just sorting it out myself.
I think the idea of offering a fixed amount is the best. It limits my interaction and financial contribution. It eliminates my worry as to how "well" the princess is handled. If they want top notch, they can pay the difference.
Thanks mskeggs .
If/when he dies hes no longer in genuine need. I have no directions for when I die. My next of kin knows what im like, stick me in a hole, cremate, donate, shred…I dont care, im dead
There are such things as paupers funerals for those who have no money or anyone willing to pay for a funeral. There is also a Centrelink benefit for those on a pension. Think it goes to next of kin for funeral expenses.
I read an article today. I think it was in the smh. It was about the mortuary prep for a 52 yo single mum with an 18 yo daughter. I cried several times after reading that article. That's where I got my info on shared graves for those who are "paupers". I'm grateful to mskeggs for the advice on a specific discrete amount as my contribution. Sometimes we/I can't see the forest for the trees. This will allow me a compassionate response without the complete obligation that I might otherwise feel. Although I was seeking advice on the whole cost, I didn't consider that I could just do part and be removed from it while still helping.
To OP. Still something to be said for what you can live with best. You still care, so shell out if it makes you feel right, and can easily afford.
Bitter, cold, cynical isn't going to make anybody happy through their life (not referring to you).Thank you. Yes, it is a function of what I can comfortably do while respecting my self image. That's the beauty of mskeggs suggestion of a fixed contribution. It's a solution that I wouldn't have necessarily come up with in my own. Thanks again.
I can't help you with the cost of burial, however having to organise 4 funerals over the past few years I can offer some insight into costs. A very basic funeral, including cremation is around $7,000. A "regular" funeral is around $11,000. The funeral directors really play on emotion and the difference in caskets alone is phenomenal. You tell them upfront you have very limited funds and they show you these horrible caskets and make you feel heartless, and con you into spending more than you have, its worse than weddings. My nana's casket was over $2,000 and it was middle of the range. My uncle's wishes were to have no funeral and he was cremated and that was about $2000 including the post mortem fees.
The best I can help with burials is my best friend had a plot purchased for her ashes and it was around $3000 from memory for a perpetual plot and a couple of hundred less for 20years. It is very simple for the cost to blow out, and if you were to pay I would strongly suggest offering a set amount as it could easily add up to tens of thousands of dollars if there are different people making decisions that aren't financially responsible.Most of all be kind to yourself, regardless of how much or how little you contribute rest easy in knowing you have already done more for this man and his family than you ever needed to and more than most people would do for anyone. Anything else you do is beyond generous, you have no obligation to anyone.
Thank you fior taking time to write and fior your information and assurances. I will definitely make a contribution if asked. But it will be fixed.
You're joking right?
Lawyer up and claim as much of his estate as you can. Gather all the evidence you can of the loan, get it in writing from him before he does if you can.
He's your ex for a reason remember.