Is This Tax Evasion? Can Anyone Relate to This?

• 

  [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 12:39

  +1

  You should make this a poll. With professional indemnity. :) Not declaring foreign income for residents for tax purposes is tax evasion, in my view. I would think the tax free threshold and brackets would alter at a minimum. I think this topic together with an admission of not declaring foreign income will be too hot to touch for professionals offering advice.

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 13:50

    I think this topic together with an admission of not declaring foreign income will be too hot to touch for professionals offering advice.

    I only talk to those I trust, such as the dudes at legal on the upper floor and my mates overseas who seem to know the Australian tax system better than most Australians.

• 

  Diji1 on 17/12/2016 - 12:40

  +3

  I cannot relate to it from personal experience but it really grinds my gears that thousands of businesses including every business in the top 500 by market cap pay almost no tax at all while individuals are taxed at absurd rates.

  Mainstream politicans have this wierd taboo of never talking about businesses while talking about individual's taxes and vice versa as though they aren't related at all. Well they are, it's a zero sum game: every dollar that the corporate scum doesn't pay is a dollar you need to if duh gummints is to take the same tax income.

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 13:56

    but it really grinds my gears that thousands of businesses including every business in the top 500 by market cap pay almost no tax at all while individuals are taxed at absurd rates.

    I am not ashamed to say that my company is a fortune 500 company that pays jack all tax to the Australian government. It's just the way the world works.

    At least we improve people's health with our products.

    • 

      ozbjunkie on 18/12/2016 - 11:55

      +1

      Just the way the world works is a massively ignorant copout. The comment below about taking jobs overseas is probably more accurate.

  • 

    chriise on 17/12/2016 - 14:01

    +8

    As BS as it sounds, if large companies here were taxed highly they would just move operations overseas, taking thousands of jobs with them.

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 14:03

      +1

      if large companies here were taxed highly they would just move operations overseas, taking thousands of jobs with them.

      I would have to move overseas too if I wanted to keep my job.

      • 

        MITM on 17/12/2016 - 15:46

        +1

        How many Australian employees (jobs) has your company created and what is the total sum of income tax these employees pay ? Gotta thank you for that.

    • 

      retiredfeline on 17/12/2016 - 14:47

      +1

      Race to the bottom by states. That's why Ireland objected to the EU Apple tax ruling.

      The big companies are actually taking resources from countries and paying nothing or a pittance for them.

• 

  StewBalls on 17/12/2016 - 12:42

  +3

  I have sought legal advice…

  So I gather that you weren't happy with the answer…out of curiosity, what did they say?

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 13:54

    +3

    what did they say?

    It's tax evasion, but I haven't been doing this for long. I still have time to rectify any mistakes and avoid jail time. My other option is, as I said, to leave the country. Kinda hard to do that since this is where I was born and where most of my family is.

    Talking to the ATO and trying to arrange a fair deal is an uphill battle. Too much bureaucracy.

    • 

      StewBalls on 17/12/2016 - 14:47

      Talking to the ATO and trying to arrange a fair deal is an uphill battle. Too much bureaucracy.

      True dat!!!

      Well, at least it sounds like you got good professional advice to start with, and it sounds like you both listened to it & have options for recourse, even if it means playing the game a bit.

      Honestly, it sounds like you're doing very well financially, so I'd strongly suggest the services of a good tax accountant to help you legally minimise tax in the future. I'll let the late Kerry Packer have the last word:

      I am not evading tax in any way, shape or form. Of course, I am minimising my tax. Anybody in this country who does not minimise his tax wants his head read. I can tell you as a government that you are not spending it so well that we should be donating extra.

    • 

      MITM on 17/12/2016 - 15:43

      Rupert Murdoch gave up his Australian citizenship and moved to USA - for media ownership purposes - not tax evasion.

    • 

      ChrisLevo on 17/12/2016 - 18:03

      Jail time?

      Interesting second post……..

      • 

        StewBalls on 17/12/2016 - 18:40

        +2

        Sadly (to some extent) unlike violent crimes, them gubbermints take tax evasion very seriously indeed.

        Whilst I agree that it is definitely important to ensure the integrity of the taxation system, it's a little scary to think that you could conceivably get a shorter custodial sentence for manslaughter or murder than for skimming a few tax dollars…

      • 

        rbrb on 17/12/2016 - 22:41

        +3

        @StewBalls: This. It drives me nuts that most countries take financial crime more seriously than crimes against another human.

      • 

        outlander on 17/12/2016 - 23:03

        +1

        @boggie:

        Ha, why? financial crimes are quite often far more devastating, affecting far more people. I'm actually surprised the punishments aren't worse, considering wealthy people are 'smarter' and therefor more likely to be factor harsh sentences into their calculations.

      • 

        StewBalls on 18/12/2016 - 09:02

        +1

        @outlander: You might not want to try that particular justification on someone who has been savagely beaten, raped or lost a loved one to a perpetrator who gets little more than a stern talk from a judge or magistrate…

      • 

        outlander on 18/12/2016 - 11:10

        -1

        @StewBalls:

        No, I wouldn't because that wouldn't serve any purpose other than to be cruel, but it doesn't change that it's the truth.

        Take your example of a violent attack. It effects one person directly, and a handful of people around that person indirectly. The victim is hurt, but if they're strong and have support they recover, maybe not straight away, maybe it takes 1,2,5 years, but they eventually resume some kind of a life. Perhaps at diminished output, but still its some kind of life. They may be angry, but they have a target for that anger

        Lets compare that to financial crime. Now, I wish I could match your hyperbole with facetious examples of my own, but the victims of financial crimes aren't immediate obvious. We don't know what would have happened, how things would of turned out, if the money that was taken had been there. Because you don't have a single victim, the victims don't know whose to blame or that there is even a crime happening to them. All they know is that life sucks, things are worse than they should be, and they're angry, but with no clear direction to direct that anger. I think if you could stand everyone as they are, facing themselves as they could have been, people would agree that many financial crimes should be treated much more severely, as much as murder in many cases.

        In fact, many of those beatings, rapes and murders you mention, would not have happened were it not for some selfish weasel lining his pockets.

      • 

        BertieBrown on 18/12/2016 - 13:15

        @StewBalls: That's how the FBI were finally able to jail Capone right?

        … edit; on tax evasion.

    • 

      CheapskateQueen on 18/12/2016 - 00:17

      +4

      Rubbish.

      If your want to make a voluntary disclosure the ato will work with you. Don't make excuses for being a massive tax cheat.

      Hope you get caught buddy :)

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 18/12/2016 - 01:06

        +4

        If your want to make a voluntary disclosure the ato will work with you.

        They will work against my interests. At the end of the day, they are looking to get the best outcome for themselves. That is my experience with the ATO.

        Don't make excuses for being a massive tax cheat.

        I simply do not want to pay tax twice.

      • 

        CheapskateQueen on 18/12/2016 - 07:48

        +8

        @fredz:

        eye roll

        Rubbish. There are rules to prevent double taxation and a whole field of tax law dedicated to it. Double taxation treaties exist with intricate rules to determine which country has final taxing rights and tax credits exist to offset tax in the relevant country.

        As for the ATO, there is a voluntary disclosure program designed specifically to encourage people to admit what they've done. The aim is to encourage and facilitate voluntary compliance. There are legislative rules about discounts to penalties AND there is additional discretion.

        But no you can't go to the ato and say i don't want to pay tax and think they can help you.

      • 

        affable on 18/12/2016 - 08:08

        +3

        @fredz:

        I simply do not want to pay tax twice.

        Simple, declare all your income in Australia! I feel you are trying to do something else?

      • 

        opt on 18/12/2016 - 11:38

        @affable:
        +1

        OP says

        Right now I have the option of receiving part of my salary in Australia and the rest from an overseas subsidiary.

        If that is one option then I take the other option is to receive all your salary in Australia ?? Then why not do that to avoid being taxed twice? Sounds to me like OP is trying to evade the higher Australian tax rate by paying a lower foreign tax rate.

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 18/12/2016 - 12:02

        @opt:

        Sounds to me like OP is trying to evade the higher Australian tax rate by paying a lower foreign tax rate.

        Very good.

• 

  PVA on 17/12/2016 - 12:49

  Tax evasion..I am sure that's what you tax adviser said too.
  So you don't think you should pay any tax to support our country?

  • 

    virhlpool on 17/12/2016 - 12:53

    +9

    So you don't think you should pay any tax to support our country?

    He probably thinks that he is already paying tax in other countries and therefore he shouldn't be double-taxed. I guess you might think the same if put in a similar situation.

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 12:58

      Is the term 'double taxing' actually true? A person earning 2 million overseas should not be getting the tax free threshold or avoiding the medicare levy or getting the benefit of lower brackets. Are they actually paying tax twice or are their brackets being applied according to gross income? HECS repayment only kicks in at certain income levels…I'm happy for that to include foreign income, otherwise some will never repay it.

      • 

        virhlpool on 17/12/2016 - 13:03

        +4

        To keep it fair to everyone, foreign income should be declared here and tax already paid abroad should be deducted from the tax amount here. But a point of concern is normalisation of foreign income (its straight conversion to Aussie dollars). I am not an accountant so my knowledge might be incomplete, but let's say - should 1,000,000 units of foreign currency be directly converted to Aussie dollars without taking into account purchasing power of that currency in that country, social/retirement benefits, and hence tax laws prevalent there, especially when a person is spending a good portion of his annual time abroad?

      • 

        retiredfeline on 17/12/2016 - 13:13

        @virhlpool: That's a different discussion, how a hypothetical set of tax laws might work, but this is here and now and the current rules are what we have.

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 13:22

        @virhlpool:
        I'm happy for the person to pay only the local tax to the place where the service was performed (not just offshoring income), but Australia is land of the means test so all income for baby boomer and medicare eligibility should be considered. I don't know about super, but suppose that should be paid too. Medicare levy might be nice if they plan to use it. HECS, ugggh. Another exception. I don't have a big problem with income tax as that seems to go somewhere and do actual things. My land tax is a mysterious unknown that seems to fill deficits and do nothing else.

      • 

        Blitzfx on 18/12/2016 - 02:44

        edit-

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 13:43

    -8

    So you don't think you should pay any tax to support our country?

    I pay more tax than ~97% of Australians (assuming 12.8 million tax payers from 2015 figures and 278,000 people being in the upper tax bracket).

    After working so hard, not being able to start a family at a young age and spending years studying, I don't want my money being sucked by the government. A government who squanders our income tax dollars and wastes our money on parliamentary pensions, travel allowances, food allowances (look up how much they spend on food. Peter Dutton, the massive tool, is an example of a leech), effing flowers etc.
    Labor are equally as guilty.

    I also work in creating new medical treatments and medical devices, so that's one way I give back to the community.

    A lot of the money I could save would go towards paying for my cousins' bills. I have many of them and we're all pretty close. I give little to charity, but I pay thousands in utilities for my extended family. They are not poor, but I think their money could be better invested in their children's education, sports, annual holidays, private lessons etc.

    • 

      momov3 on 17/12/2016 - 14:09

      +11

      What you have done and intend to do with your career and untaxed money is noble to say the least, however everyone of us taxpaying citizens can sure find 'justifiable' reasons for not paying our share of tax. Why, I too can say I want to evade tax because my income supports my pension aged mother and she doesn't apply for pension although she is entitled to. That's one less person relying on Centrelink coffers isn't it? There are enough justifiable reasons for every each one of us to not pay tax if we wanted to think up something. At least you have a high income to be able to 'spare' some, imagine what it's like for your average salary Aussie who has to make ends meet after paying tax to the leeches, and still have to pay it or get caught by ATO.

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 14:14

        +1

        What you have done and intend to do with your career and untaxed money is noble to say the least, however everyone of us taxpaying citizens can sure find 'justifiable' reasons for not paying our share of tax.

        Some good points there.

        From my perspective, I look at my tax bill at the end of a financial year and then compare it to how much I would've been taxed overseas. It can be quite depressing to see how much money I could have banked if I wasn't taxed here in Australia.

    • 

      PVA on 17/12/2016 - 14:11

      +2

      I understand what you are saying.

      i assume you earn more than 97% as well.

      the other 3 paragraphs (apart from the Govt and Dutton which I agree) applies to everyone - I woul d love to not pay tax, it would have made school fees much less a struggle, could help fiends and family more etc. All our work contributes to the community - a toilet cleaner even does.
      But maybe, maybe if all pay (especially the big companies that dont) education, health, life here would be a bit better. Yeah, I know, I am dreaming.

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 14:15

        -3

        But maybe, maybe if all pay (especially the big companies that dont) education, health, life here would be a bit better. Yeah, I know, I am dreaming

        I use to think like that when I was fresh out of university. Now I am bitter and wanting to adopt this elitist mentality. i.e. Why should I pay so much tax?

      • 

        PVA on 17/12/2016 - 14:27

        +3

        @fredz: I'm a lot older and still hope for this.

        some things bug me a lot, like the mums in the new leased luxury SUVs used as, really, private vehicles and take the kids to school but the family business has it as some tax minimisation deal. My sister has two vehicles like this , no idea, morally, why it should be.

    • 

      BestofOZB on 18/12/2016 - 09:14

      While I truly empathise with you, I do not think this is the way you should think about it.

      I am a doctor, I help the sick, I still pay tax.
      I give to charity, I still pay tax.
      I support my mother and a few other relatives, I still pay tax.

      What I see sucks is, if you earn some money for work you do in another country, that money should only be taxed in that country, it's fair to only expect you to pay tax for the money you earn in Australia. But we both know that is not the law.

      If I were you I would take the advice of declaring it all to ATO, then get a very good accountant and see how you can legally miminise tax, eg Family Trust, negative gearing etc.

• 

  hashtagbargain on 17/12/2016 - 12:51

  +1

  Not a bad problem to have, TBH.

  • 

    Poseidon on 18/12/2016 - 05:43

    +1

    This. I wish I had your problem OP.

    Also, not declaring foreign income is tax evasion.

• 

  retiredfeline on 17/12/2016 - 13:06

  +4

  You are an Australian resident for tax purposes (which is a separate issue from being a resident physically, you can look up the definition of a tax resident on the ATO site, if it's up again) so worldwide income is taxed. So you have to declare it or it's tax evasion. The other country might have a double taxation treaty with Australia, or you may be able to claim some of it back. But if tax advice is correct too bad if you don't like it.

  Murdoch gave up his citizenship because of this so that's an option as you are aware.

  Tax residency also comes up in the context of people who retire to live overseas, BTW.

• 

  chaliban on 17/12/2016 - 14:03

  +1

  Just to expand on greenpossum. Citizenship isn't the issue. It's whether you are resident in Australia. The normal test is the number of days spent in Australia. But would also take into account where your wife and kids are living for example.

  I believe Murdoch was willing to give up his citizenship due to media ownership laws.

  Yes legally you do have to declare your overseas income. ATO are getting better at tracking it too apparently.

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 14:07

    It's whether you are resident in Australia.

    Yes, I am. My partner, that is in a de facto relationship with me, pays tax here.

  • 

    retiredfeline on 17/12/2016 - 14:40

    +2

    It's not just the number of days, otherwise people who derive passive income but don't live here most of the year would get off. It's whether you have a financial relationship with Australia or more precise words than that. As I said it's not the same as physical residency.

• 

  momov3 on 17/12/2016 - 14:12

  +1

  Wonder how they will administer the tracking down of thousands of Aussie graduate expatriates who never ever paid their HECS/HELP debt because they earn big money overseas - thanks and courtesy of the Australian government who heavily subsidised their university degrees in the first place. Won't happen.

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 14:18

    +1

    Wonder how they will administer the tracking down of thousands of Aussie graduate expatriates who never ever paid their HECS/HELP debt

    Shouldn't be too difficult if you're into being ruthless. Form a database and stop them at the border if they decide to come back to Australia for a holiday or to live here again. Ask them to pay it back or go back to where they came from.
    There is probably a legal argument out there, which stops them from implementing this.

    • 

      bluesky on 17/12/2016 - 16:11

      Or ATO could pursue them when they come back. Did they not do this to Paul Hogan?

      • 

        altomic on 17/12/2016 - 16:49

        christopher skase

      • 

        bluesky on 17/12/2016 - 17:34

        @altomic:
        The Australian Government pursue him mainly due to criminal charges over collapse of corporate empire, rather than tax. Didn't succeed though. Still, can't be nice living a life of a fugitive.

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 14:22

    They changed the super system from being able to cash out on exit to now keeping funds until your vesting age. It might be possible to slug your super in the future.

    • 

      MITM on 17/12/2016 - 16:03

      -2

      @FR You'd be surprised what they've got lined up for accessing your super in the future. It's such a large honey pot, too tempting to resist.
      They're already asking Superfunds to invest it in infrastructure - a government responsibility.
      The worst I've read is once you die, your remaining super/nest egg funds are usurped by Treasury, and not willable to your family.
      And another that has already been implemented is retiries residing outside Australia have their pension amount fixed for life, while those remaining in Australia are subject to CPI increases (minimal as they are).
      Thereby creating 2 classes of retired Australians. The Inies and the Outies. Of course the Outies have no parliamentary representation so have no voice or say in the matter. Very undemocratic socialism.

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 17/12/2016 - 18:01

        The worst I've read is once you die, your remaining super/nest egg funds are usurped by Treasury, and not willable to your family.

        Is that right? Doesn't' seem like it.

        When you die, your superannuation benefit balance and any insurance benefit (known as a death benefit) is usually paid to your dependents or your legal representative. If you don’t have any dependents, it is paid to your estate and will be dealt with according to what is in your will or by the legal rules for those who die without a will. In relation to superannuation, dependents can include your current spouse or partner (including de facto or same-sex partners), your children (including step kids or adopted children) or any other person who is financially dependent on you (for example your father-in-law who lives with you) or in an interdependent relationship with you.

        Source: superguru.com.au.
        Not very thorough researching by me. lol

      • 

        djkelly69 on 17/12/2016 - 22:30

        @fredz: I think MITM is saying that is something they are considering, rather than something that is in place at the moment.

  • 

    virhlpool on 17/12/2016 - 16:50

    Uni degrees in Australia aren't cheap (including HECS amount which is still a debt to the borrower) as compared to other countries. They are rather expensive. I would rather have HECS removed in favour of reasonably priced tertiary education which most citizens can afford though I am sure many people would still prefer the current system at the cost of more expensive education.

• 

  ozhunter on 17/12/2016 - 15:46

  Don't you get tax credit? If the country has a really low tax rate, you'd have to pay more here, if they have a high one, you might not pay or less tax of your overseas earnings?

• 

  trex on 17/12/2016 - 15:58

  +1

  One thing to add, if you manage to be a non-tax resident in Australia, the income earned while you are in Australia will be taxed at the higher non-tax resident rates (https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/?pa…).

  As greenpossum advised, read up on tax resident from ATO's website. Even if you are physically outside Australia for a full financial year, you could still be a tax resident.

• 

  foxmulder on 17/12/2016 - 23:50

  Hi yes it's tax evasion. You can always go to other country for citizenship, however your tax obligations remains, like everyone else, up to the moment you loose your citizenship.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 18/12/2016 - 00:51

  The late great kerry packer said ….

  I am not evading tax in any way, shape or form. Of course, I am minimising my tax. Anybody in this country who does not minimise his tax wants his head read. I can tell you as a government that you are not spending it so well that we should be donating extra.

  And fire truck do i agree with him.

• 

  lasertip on 18/12/2016 - 02:07

  There's a fine line between tax minimisation and tax avoidance. Every man is entitled to arrange his affairs such that he pays less tax but only to certain limits.

  Yes, it's probably tax avoidance. Generally, all income derived from personal exertions are assessable. IF the ATO finds out, they can reissue a tax bill for the difference between the tax that you paid and the tax that you should have paid, and tack on a penalty.

  That being said, I'm sympathetic of the amount of tax that some individuals pay. 49% at the margin is unfair- so much for an equitable tax system.

• 

  AussieMark on 18/12/2016 - 02:45

  +2

  All depends if the country has a double taxation agreement with Australia.

  Hong Kong where I am doesn't so paying tax in one doesn't exempt me from the other

  • 

    HardQuiz on 18/12/2016 - 08:22

    This

• 

  Blitzfx on 18/12/2016 - 02:48

  +1

  How is the other Country viewing your income in Australia? Are they asking to tax the $ you declare in Australia too?

  Seems a bit stupid be taxed from Australia AND the other country for the ENTIRETY of your income.

  An American Professor, Noam Chomsky, quite succinctly described how a lot of us feel about tax:

  In a functioning democratic society that would be a day of celebration, the day you hand in your taxes. You would be saying: ‘Alright, we got together, we worked out some plans and programs that we think ought to be implemented and we’re now participating in providing the funding to get these things done.’ That’s a democracy. In the United States it’s a day of mourning. It’s a day when this alien force, you know, the government, which comes from Mars or somewhere is arriving to steal from us our hard earned money and use it for their own purposes, whatever they are. That’s a reflection of the fact that the concept of democracy is not even in people’s minds anymore. Now, I’m exaggerating. It’s not quite this sharp, but it’s pretty close.”

  • 

    Serapis on 18/12/2016 - 12:07

    @Blitzfx

    Seems a bit stupid be taxed from Australia AND the other country for the ENTIRETY of your income.

    Yes this exists: Foreign income

    Hence the need for tax treaties: What are tax treaties?

    That’s a reflection of the fact that the concept of democracy is not even in people’s minds anymore.

    This is quite obvious if you're working in the legal field - nobody has any idea about the separation of powers / branches of government in the Australian Constitution.

• 

  wizedz on 18/12/2016 - 02:52

  check if there is a tax treaty between australia and this country to see if you can claim any tax credits. if you are eligible for tax credits, it can help a bit.

  next year you should consider a tax arrangements, such as starting a company and use a trust to hold the shares of the company and have your family members work in your company to manage how much tax you pay

• 

  Donaldhump on 18/12/2016 - 05:32

  Any savings income u earn now in foreign countries should be declared

  Anything you earn overseas should be declared if you are resident in Australia, which you are. Your earnings overseas will be used to grade the rest of your income, by sliding it in under your Aussie income in terms of tax brackets., but if a double tax treaty you would not pay tax on foreign employment income. If you pay no tax in foreign country and are resident here you pay Australian tax on it., this is where u get shafted. All the bogans who think they can fix air conditioners in Dubai tax free whilst resident here are unaware.

  If u own a home here and become a non resident u trigger cgt.

  Citizenship has nothing to do with it, it is where you are resident, which you are here by the fact you reside here.

  That's how I see it,

• 

  Geewhizz on 18/12/2016 - 06:46

  +2

  It's in your company's interests only to offer you this option because it reduces the amount of super they have to pay on your behalf. They are not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

• 

  grang on 18/12/2016 - 08:57

  +2

  There is this concept of a "Tax Nomad"

  What it means is that your are not "permanently resident" in any country, i.e. you have no fixed situation tying you to ONE home and ONE country, and you spend less than 183 days in any jurisdiction (days depend on jurisdiction). Note that the days test alone isn't sufficient.

  This would mean that you only pay tax in the local authority (if any).

  E.g., I know a few folks with a holiday home in NZ and business branches - they do work here, they run the operations from HK and have a rental unit, his family is living in a house in the UK and he visits often and they take 3 months holiday a year (2 stints) in the Caribbean where he also works from the rental home.

  He travels a lot, and is paid via a Swiss entity.

  It also means he pays almost no tax… [as fun as it sounds, it is also tough to maintain]

• 

  accountant4Jesus on 18/12/2016 - 09:07

  +1

  Things you need to consider:

  If your employer pays according to what you suggested, you're legally being stiffed super on that portion of your wage.

  If you pay tax overseas on income you get a credit for the tax you paid and have to pay the difference between the total from there and here.

  Your current setup is blatant tax evasion. I am all for people legally minimising tax (that's one reason I love my job so much, because I like helping people with that), but the scheme you described can potentially land you in jail, and also bankruptcy court if the penalties imposed are harsh enough.

  There are ways to legally minimise your tax without going into blatant tax evasion like you are doing now. If you set up a service company that's owned by a family trust and you satisfy certain requirements it doesn't come under the personal services tax regime, meaning you can also pay certain relatives wages from the company profits (formerly what you would be receiving as a wage), you could claim certain extra deductions for things like a home office, travel to work etc, and the tax would be at a flat 28.5% rate. Any tax that you paid could then be transferred to dividends paid to the family trust and distributed to your family members, meaning that if the dividend was less than the tax free threshold and they had no other taxable income your family member would receive all the franking credits from the dividend back. As you said about helping your family members that may be one way to go about it while being able to minimise your tax bill at the same time. Currently all your tax is only being paid at an individual level, meaning you can never get it back in the future. If you pay it in a company and manage your affairs well enough you can potentially get every cent of tax you pay refunded back to you or your family members.

  I've had quite a bit of experience in this sort of situation so if you'd like to talk in specifics about it send me a message or reply to my comment and I'll get back to you.

  • 

    Donaldhump on 18/12/2016 - 11:01

    +1

    if you pay tax on overseas income and there is a tax treaty, you dont have to pay any more tax in australia if there is a shortfall.

    only if no tax treaty, or no tax at all.

    AFAIK.

    i worked in singapore, and uk and never paid tax over here.

    i just added it to my income to slide the brackets down

    • 

      accountant4Jesus on 18/12/2016 - 11:21

      Yes, that's correct. But it only works for countries that have a tax treaty with Australia. For other countries you pay the difference in tax to the ATO.

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 18/12/2016 - 13:11

      It's a bit different if you leave Australia while working overseas and pay no tax here, compared to if you're living here and earning income from overseas as well as in Australia.

      Basically at the very least there's no benefit to being paid overseas while also being paid in Australia. Because you have to pay the difference. If you have an employer trying to give you some of your income from overseas, they are not trying to do YOU a favour they are probably just looking at avoiding having to pay the super guarantee etc.

      • 

        Donaldhump on 18/12/2016 - 13:12

        i get paid english income whilst working remotely in australia and only pay british tax,

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 18/12/2016 - 13:25

        @unclesnake: It's a bit of a grey area if you're here temporarily working for a company that doesn't have a local presence.

        Stay too long and the ATO will begin asking questions like how you are supporting yourself etc.

      • 

        Donaldhump on 18/12/2016 - 14:06

        @Bargs: i support myself with australian income, i live here permanently

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 18/12/2016 - 14:27

        @unclesnake: So unless you paid as much tax on the English income in British tax as you would be liable to pay the difference in income to the ATO.

        https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Tax-return/2016/In-detail…

• 

  askme69 on 18/12/2016 - 10:03

  -1

  Leave this country now I am willing to give up my citezenship to not pay tax.

  What about the people that died so you can.

  expletive out of here.

  • 

    accountant4Jesus on 18/12/2016 - 11:33

    +4

    Nationalism is very much overrated. People take pride in a country that was formed over a certain region of the earth simply because they've been brainwashed to do so by government propaganda. There's absolutely nothing historically-speaking that justifies this. Tax dollars are used to fight pointless wars, take over welfare programs that were historically run by non-profit organisations like churches and volunteer groups and run them into the ground financially to buy votes, and wasted to bring the few in power vast riches. You only have to look at the US to see very clearly this is true, and it is happening here in Australia as we speak. And with the current trend of merging nation-states into regional blocs like the EU, soon there won't be an Australia to fight for. We will merge with New Zealand and possibly a few more countries in the near future.

    • 

      Baysew on 18/12/2016 - 12:23

      You have not heard of Brexit or Tump's tearing up of the TPP?

• 

  Davo1111 on 18/12/2016 - 10:06

  See a proper qualified accountant (who specialises in these issues), not a lawyer.

  • 

    StewBalls on 18/12/2016 - 10:26

    Both are probably appropriate in this instance; OP has admitted to already being caught by the ATO committing the offence, so requires both retrospective legal and financial advice…that said, seeking the latter prospectively would most likely have negated the need for the former. ;)

• 

  someguycalledpaul on 18/12/2016 - 10:25

  +1

  i had to do this. I had Ersnt & Young do my tax one year and PWC do it the next - the company i was working for arranged it. I would think that if your medical company is making unusual arrangements with your salary, then they must provide you with the appropriate support

• 

  [Deactivated] on 18/12/2016 - 12:23

  Thanks a lot guys for your wisdom and thoughts.

  I should mention that the purpose of this thread was not to receive advice or because I needed to admit my guilt. I made this thread to discuss what some people in my position are offered and what were some of the problems I faced. Many times I spoke in the present tense when it was actually suppose to be in past tense.

  I hope none of you feel that I was just using you. I am simply trying to reflect on my last few years, because I am doing my best to keep my fellow colleagues from landing themselves in this situation. Believe it or not, these types of arrangements are somewhat common in large multinational corporations that want to keep their loyal employees.

  The support I received from my company was second to none, but the ATO tends to strong arm you even if you are trying to do the right thing. They come down hard and don't necessarily listen to all the facts and circumstances.
  I do not have any issues with my taxes anymore and I have a good relationship with the people at the ATO.

  Believe it or not, I am actually thinking about getting a job at the Australian Tax Office. I have many ideas for increasing their ability to have a more effective global reach when chasing down individuals and companies.

  • 

    Scrooge McDuck on 18/12/2016 - 14:32

    Believe it or not, I am actually thinking about getting a job at the Australian Tax Office. I have many ideas for increasing their ability to have a more effective global reach when chasing down individuals and companies.

    Are you under duress?

    Upvote for yes, downvote for no.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 18/12/2016 - 12:35

  +2

  There's a thing called foreign tax credits but you should be going over this with an Accountant which you can afford you tightass

• 

  [Deactivated] on 18/12/2016 - 13:24

  Your company is trying to reduce their costs and avoid paying you the super guarantee, they are not trying to help you, you are still liable and will end up paying more and potentially risk jail time if you go along with it. That is not at all a smart move. Your company is dodgy as all hell, and look like they are trying to screw you over big time (under the guise of being 'helpful'), you will take the fall and they will get away with it.

  The people who pay the most tax in Australia, benefit the most. Defence isn't worth jack if you don't have any assets to defend. The people who pay the least tax (or none) couldn't afford to pay that same % and still eat.

  If you don't want to pay the high tax rate in Australia, you can leave and not come back, if you don't, you're admitting that the tax is worth the stability and security we have. I've been in countries where they have much flatter tax rates, and the income gap is much more pronounced. Sure, you can afford to 'live large' with all the extra money you get, but you spend your entire life looking over your shoulder for people looking to harm you. The tax paid here is EASILY worth not having to live daily with that feeling.

  There isn't some moral reason why people that earn more pay more tax, it's purely practical. You pay more because you can. Because people who earn less can't afford to pay more since they're already struggling to live. When people who earn less get an extra dollar of tax break they spend it at local businesses and the economy is fuelled as a result. When people who earn more get more money they often send that money right overseas or just sit on it and do nothing with it.

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  donotuse on 18/12/2016 - 13:42

  Which countries are we talking about? There could be Tax Treaty relief depending on the countries.