Urgent: Lost Photo Id After Home Loan Approval - How to sign loan documents with JP as a witness without original documents?

dealsucker on 11/12/2016 - 15:26

Hi Guys,

I got my home loan pre-approved via loans.com.au for an auction I was planning to attend and eventually won the auction. Subsequently, the property evaluation was also successful and I got the final approval for the loan from the bank. So far so good. They have now sent us the loan agreement and mortgage documents which we need to sign in front of JP as a witness. The problem now is that we have lost both our photo's id's (Overseas Passports) following a theft so we no longer have those documents and the JP won't be a witness unless he can see the original documents. We do have scan for both the passports though.

What is my way out of this? Can the bank refuse to go ahead now? How do I take it forward? Do I speak to the bank or shall visit another JP, the one that sits in the same police station where the theft complaint was made and request him to sign as a witness?

Me and my wife are joint applicants on the application. Please help me out guys. Thanks.

Financial

Comments

  • Steptoe on 11/12/2016 - 15:54

    Do you know a JP personally?

    • dealsucker on 11/12/2016 - 20:01

      No I dont.

    • zambuck on 21/12/2016 - 11:19

      The only advantage to knowing a JP personally in this situation is that you could offer to visit them in jail once they're convicted of committing a criminal offence by witnessing a document they didn't see. OP, don't give JPs a hard time for volunteering their time to the community and doing what they're legally required to do. Exploring your options with your bank is definitely the way to go.

      • Steptoe on 21/12/2016 - 11:27

        The requirements for ID are different if they have known you for at least 12 months. Less than that needs photo licence, passport photo etc.

  • Grande Kintama on 11/12/2016 - 17:54

    how did you get your passports in the first place without photo id? Do you not have a drivers license or similar????

  • garetz on 11/12/2016 - 18:25

    You have 2 options, goto the overseas country, and get replacement passports OR Cancel your loan and reapply using new identification documentation. Talk to the bank rep involved, they might let you change the id info without reapplying for a new loan, but i think thats unlikely.

  • modsec802 on 11/12/2016 - 18:33
    +3

    No JP is going to certify copies without seeing the originals… that's just insane.

  • huybo on 11/12/2016 - 19:06
    +2

    Like everyone here has said, no JP will certify copies without seeing the original.

    Unfortunate situation you have yourself in, but you would need another form of ID or several forms of ID which totals the 120 point check.

    The bank can refuse the loan if you do not have sufficient ID to verify as they are not going to loan the money to 'XYZ'.

    Hopefully you chose a long settlement date to give you time to get this right.

    Best of luck.

    • dealsucker on 11/12/2016 - 20:05

      I do have the scans of our original passports. I also have the police reports for the stolen passports and can also give them an undertaking or statutory declaration if they so need. The loan was approved on those documents already. They can also verify the passport on my visa grant notice which has my and my wife's passport details. Unfortunately, I do not think I have enough time to get a new passport and re-apply the loan :(

    • whooah1979 on 12/12/2016 - 07:32

      you would need another form of ID or several forms of ID which totals the 120 point check.

      did they change this from 100 pts?

  • djsherly on 11/12/2016 - 19:44

    What is the JP witnessing? It's not clear from your post. If it's a signature on the loan documentation then all the JP is doing is witnessing someone sign a document. No identification is necessary.

    If there's something else, such as certifying copies of documents, normally the JP would make their own copies from the originals and certify those. If that's the case, then you're in a bit of a pickle. Stat Dec? In any event, an emergency passport can be obtained pretty quickly here, not sure about your own country.

    • retiredfeline on 11/12/2016 - 19:48

      JPs normally don't travel to certify true copies for clients, you go to them. And they usually expect you to provide the copy. Usually they are situated in libraries, council chambers, shopping centres, or you might find one in your workplace.

      However if the JP is witnessing a signing, they they would want to see proof that the the person is who they claim to be. This would also be true for other admissible categories of witnesses.

    • dealsucker on 11/12/2016 - 20:07

      The JP would be the witness to signing the forms and he needs to attest the documents as well. I also have an Australian driving licence but in case of my wife, her only photo id was her passport. I am in real fix. The witness does not need to be only a JP. It can also be a police officer, a GP, a financial agent etc.

      • djkelly69 on 11/12/2016 - 20:42

        Are you sure the JP needs to certify copies of your IDs as well, and is not just witnessing the loan documents? Usually the bank collects their copies of the 100 points or whatever by themselves.

        The difference being, if the JP is simply witnessing loan documents, then generally they would just need to satisfy themselves as to the identity of the person signing, watch them sign, and then sign themselves.

        You might also confirm which state you are in, as these things can vary.

        I would be trying someone at the police station to see if they can help you out.

        Also, I strongly doubt you would need to apply for the whole loan just because of this. Surely if the bank is that concerned they can just re-identify you using whatever else you have (birth cert, visa grant notice, various cards, etc).

        • dealsucker on 11/12/2016 - 22:05

          Yes the JP needs to because the form says that the Mortgage witness must write "I certify that this is a true copy of the original document" and sign the copies. I spoke to a police officer at the station too and he refused to certify in absence of original documents even though the complaint was made at the same police station.

        • djkelly69 on 11/12/2016 - 22:10

          @dealsucker: Ok, but does it say that the JP needs certify specific documents (ie. the passports you showed to the bank), or just the documents which the JP relied on to identify you when you signed the documents?

      • binusam2007 on 12/12/2016 - 09:00

        In Victoria it was quick process to get a learner permit licence .I don't know the current situation

  • Olokun on 11/12/2016 - 20:56
    +1

    Can you clarify how long until settlement and which country issuedmyoir passport?

    The first thing I would be doing would have done is .

    • Notify the loan provider and vendor of the issue and provide a copy of the police report. I would then request in writing from both of them what they require of you and what solutions/extension of time or aisstance they can offer in light of this issue.

    • Work out how long it would take to get an emergency passport or other suitable identification so you know what time frames you are working with.

    Hopefully the vendor understands the situation and works with you on a solution. That is probably the best you can hope for.

    • dealsucker on 11/12/2016 - 22:06

      My settlement date is 20th January 2017 and country of issue is India.

      • saty1296 on 12/12/2016 - 07:50

        Have to spoken to VFS Services and Indian consulate yet on how to obtain new passports after theft at your place?

        Speak to mortgage broker and bank on how to get this done without passports using other forms of IDs.

        • dealsucker on 12/12/2016 - 07:58

          I have australian driving licence and i should be able to manage without passport. The problem is my wife's only photo id was her passport.

        • saty1296 on 12/12/2016 - 08:13

          @dealsucker:

          http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/licence/identity/

          Try to get a photo card for your wife(if you live in NSW) by getting a reference statement from someone who has known you for last 12 months and has got a NSW unrestricted licence. I am surprised that she already does not have NSW photo card which contains her name address photo signature and date of birth all together in one place as a replacement for driving licence.

        • dealsucker on 12/12/2016 - 08:31

          @saty1296: Thanks for that mate. We are in Victoria though.

        • binusam2007 on 12/12/2016 - 09:05

          @dealsucker: In Victoria it was quick process to get a learner permit licence .I don't know the current situation

        • saty1296 on 12/12/2016 - 09:44

          @binusam2007:
          OR Keypass through Australia Post

          https://auspost.com.au/travel-id/identity-document-services/…

    • djkelly69 on 11/12/2016 - 22:50

      +1 for talking to the bank and seeing if they can work something out.

  • pyramid on 11/12/2016 - 23:15

    OP - did you check with your consulate and see if there is separate/special procedure to get passport quickly in case of lost/stolen passport? If i would be in your situation, I will talk to consulate officer, JP and all other relevant parties and check with them about other options.

    • dealsucker on 12/12/2016 - 08:00

      I am going to the consulate today to check my options. I am also going to speak to my real estate agent to check if they can postpone the settlement date by 15 odd days.

  • whooah1979 on 12/12/2016 - 07:35

    op, are you sure you need jp? we use our gp that we've known for years.

    • dealsucker on 12/12/2016 - 08:01

      A GP can also do it but i am not sure if she would attest the documents without looking at the originals.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2016 - 09:34

    I have read your post that the JP needs your ID to prove that it is you who is signing the loan agreement. In that case you do not need your passport as long as you can produce sufficient ID. It is irrelevant what ID you provided last time.

    • roundnumbersonly on 12/12/2016 - 09:54

      If its just for the JP to fill out the details in their own register then this will be fine.

      But I assume that there are a bunch of supporting documents (eg, passports) that you have to collate alongside the loan and mortgage docs and these are yet to be sighted - if that's the case, you will definitely need originals.

      My only other thought is getting your wife to sign a statutory declaration saying who she is. Not sure whether the bank would accept this though.

  • pyramid on 12/12/2016 - 11:15

    OP, which document do you expect JP to witness you signing? Do you expect JP to attest/sign any document? If you expect JP to sign on your passport copies, then he/she will ask for original. Otherwise other document should be enough like Aus driving license + Medicare card or something similar.

  • pebee47 on 12/12/2016 - 13:33

    The JP is signing to say that he/she has witnessed you signing the document(s).
    To that end the JP has to be satisfied that you are the person named in the doc's.
    You can most likely also get your signing of the doc's witnessed by any of the people listed as for a Stat Dec.
    Best of luck; PB (JP)

  • dealsucker on 12/12/2016 - 14:42

    Hi All,

    This is what the document says.

    Mortgage Witness Form
    Instructions for completion:
    1. The Certification can only be completed by a Mortgage Witness listed in Part A (overleaf).
    2. You must take with you and give to the Mortgage Witness (i) this form (ii) your original identity documents listed in Part B
    (overleaf) and (iii)copies of your identity documents.
    3. You must sign the form in front of the Mortgage Witness.
    4. The Mortgage Witness must fill in their details in the Mortgage Witness Certification section below.
    5. The Mortgage Witness must write on the copies of your identity documents
    "I certify that this is a true copy of the original document" and sign the copies.
    6. You must return to us this completed form and the certified copies of your identity documents.

  • dealsucker on 12/12/2016 - 15:04

    I am actually sick of their requirements for seemingly ridiculous documents. So in my Wife's case since she does not have an Australian driver licence, she needs to provide passport and visa, medicare card and a birth certificate! Why do you need a birth certificate? The age can be easily confirmed from the passport and the visa grant notification. The birth certificate will be in the local language and I will have to get it translated by NATI. Infact I am sick of loans.com.au and I am planning to take my business to one of the big 4's.

    • pyramid on 12/12/2016 - 18:16

      Even big 4 may ask for similar docs. Passport, Medicare, driving license are three key identity proof.

      • dealsucker on 12/12/2016 - 18:48

        And i have those. They are also asking for birth certificate when the date of birth can be easily identified from the visa and the passport. They are asking for more than 100 points of id. Is it even legal?

    • brotherfranciz on 12/12/2016 - 18:59
      +3

      It's not ridiculous at all - it's for proof of identity. It's not because they want to know her age…

      The bank will be handing over a significant amount of money to you and your wife, so they'll want to do their due diligence on who the heck they're giving their money to (and obviously due diligence on whether you and your wife have the ability to pay it back plus interest)!

    • lgacb08 on 17/12/2016 - 08:13

      Well, it seemed you don't understand the logic behind identity check, they need several different types of ID to make sure the person is real and none of the documents is faked/forgery. It might be possible to fake using 1 ID, but for several then the difficulty arise, especially when they can spot the discrepancies between document. That's nothing to do with whether your DOB is both on the passport and birth certificate or not.

      Not sure how long you've lived here but having only 1 principal type of ID is risky, unless you ok with living homeless, receiving cash salary, don't want to go to school/uni, don't need to drive, don't have desire to own a house. As soon as you step into some credit application, they're gonna ask for just more than you licence.

      Because you haven't gone through the whole buying house process, you should have known that going with the big 4 just doesn't cut it because they're going to ask for the same thing, and you both are going to the postie to do the title transfer and I know having just the passport/driver licence is not gonna help. Unless you can afford to have just your name in the application.

  • DisneyPrincess on 14/12/2016 - 00:45
    +1

    I assume you have a solicitor involved in this property purchase. Contact your solicitor & see if they can help, solicitors can also act as JP's and should already have all your ID checked and kept copies for their files. If you explain the situation (and can back it up with a police report for the stolen passports) maybe they can just certify the documents for you. Will probably end up costing more than a free JP, but will save you a lot of time & stress if you're on a deadline

  • pyramid on 21/12/2016 - 11:27

    So OP, did you get solution to your problem?

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