Investment Property- Tenants Trashed Property - What To Do?

Hi fellow Ozbargainers.

I need some help, and I am sure that a few of you can do just that. I am asking, because quite frankly,I am beyond angry and need to do something to fix this. I think I need advice from people who have no emotional investments tied into this, have (possibly) been through the same, or are in the industry and can set me onto the right path.

So, long story short (as much as I can).

We bought an investment property about 6 years ago on the Central Coast, and leased it through the same agent we bought it from (so want to name them, but let's not be hasty…YET).

He seemed like such a nice old bloke…very helpful, gave us great advice. Helped us through the whole "investment property" minefield,and became sort of like a "Dad" figure in relation to all this (yes, I know…"it's business, not a bonding session, they are there to get commission..NOT be your bestie"), but at the time,we really needed someone,and he was it.

Fast forward to now -that real estate agent and his pointless property manager, (to my mind),seriously failed in their duties, and allowed each and every tenant (we have had several come and go over the years) to breach the tenancy agreement in every way possible…from having animals in the house (a violation of what is in the lease, and the results of which were obvious when the "property manager" did her "inspections"..but hey,"I didn't notice anything") to not paying rent (not just a few weeks…try MONTHS for the last tenant) and the excuse from the real estate owner being "you have to expect some damage, and that's why you have insurance").

The last tenant was the end of it for me…and the reason I find myself writing this. Over the course of about a year (give or take),these people came in (with the agent KNOWING that the person signing the lease was getting government help to pay this rent (not an issue being a single parent,BUT be able to pay the rent),was unable to pay otherwise AND had no previous rental history checked..something i thought ALL agents do prior to lease signing). This ended earlier this year after hubby finally told me (he kept some things quiet i think,to stop me getting angry or worried. Something I know is not great,and I wished he had dealt with this better as well, but what is done is done and now i need to fix this) and I told the agent to give these people the notice required to evict (90 days) due to months of rent not being paid ,and the agent not working with us to fix that)

After we told the tenants that,the hell began:

No further rent was paid at all (but a promise of "we'll pay $50 each pay to get back on track" was apparently offered at a later time…that remains unpaid,and no means of recouping seems to be possible). The insurance company has said,that due to the way the lease was written up, only two weeks of lost rental income is possible to be paid out…a $500 excess to recoup $800 in rent? Yep,sure I'll do that.How was it that the agent did not perhaps mention this to us (I didn't know that their are so many ways to write a lease…and that not all leases are as clear cut as you might think)

Damage on such a huge scale was caused that the house became uninhabitable for months after they left (think new bathroom needed,every door in the house being broken,the front door being unable to be locked anymore due to damage,the built in wardrobes all being smashed and the runners broken, the house being turned into a zoo…with something like 4 dogs, unknown amount of cats and God only knows what else being inside and outside (both neighbours saw this and told us about it later)..causing the carpet to become a giant toilet (and chew toy),the cupboards in the kitchen ripped from their hinges,and then there was the outside…since when does a backyard become your own private tip,whereby you can dig huge holes,bury rubbish,set it all alight and then leave massive smoking holes in replacement of the once beautiful lawn ("I never saw any holes" was the property manager's response when we asked her about it after one inspection (I mean seriously,you never saw THAT ? )and mould from one corner of the house to the other (that required a professional clean that took two days to complete. Yep,that bond really helped with all this).

Then, to make all this even more enjoyable,this week we got a water bill from the property (they should have been paying water bills -they never did, the agent was to get copies, pay what was required legally by us, and pass them to us if any issues arose…no such notification).It came to a total of $1800.

Mind you,no tenants have been in their since February,(we had a plumber come in last year to check on a possible leak,due to massive excess water bill. No leaks at all where found,leaving me with only one thought -taps were left on by these animals (after all the repairs,we went up their to check the place,and we found that the backdoor had been been destroyed,wire screen was cut,back door was hacked up and locks broken.The neighbours,both of them, stated that they saw the old tenants several times doing drive by's of the house, and where seen laughing at the house whilst all the builders, plumbers etc where there doing repairs.They knew this was them,as they told them all to "eff themselves" as they hung out the car windows)

So, there you have it. Perhaps a bit long,perhaps i have been a bit stupid in some respects (trusting someone who is there simply to make commission ,not getting a new agent sooner,not being familiar with every type of lease out there,letting hubby keep me out of the loop at times etc). But that is now done. What I really need, are avenues I can go down to try and get a little back from all this (that water bill,that was the last straw).

I paid that out of funds we had saved for our IVF cycles (which has now made all this very,VERY personal. I feel like these wastes of oxygen have taken from our potential child. Whatever was left was to be saved for the education i wanted for him or her later on. Other funds we had saved for the rental property were used up on the last tenants,and were not enough by a long shot for all this…even after insurance.The excesses alone came to over $2000, not to start with lost rent).

Again, I get that an investment is not to be personal,but who buys something like this,working their behinds off to get it,sacrificing everything to scrape the deposit to get it (with the intention of one day living there)and doesn't get emotional over it?

Any advice as to where to go and what to do would be amazing (please note though - I am a hormonal mess right now…the plethora of hormone injections / tablets / other, antibiotics,thyroxine etc,combined with the discomfort all these are causing mean I really just want positive,helpful responses).

Comments

    • +99

      OP bought Investment Property six years ago and used the Selling Agent as Property Manager. To much trust was placed with the agent, who was seen as a "father figure"

      During that time various tenants have been late in rent and caused damaged to property, which seems to be overlooked by Property Manager.

      Upon getting eviction notice, the tenants have deliberately damaged the property, not paid water bills and of course not paid rent.

      Whilst the property was insured, due to wording of lease, insurance company is only paying two weeks of lost rent.

      OP is taking this very personal, as sacrifices were made to purchase property, and funds were to be used for IVF. Hubby has also kept details about the property from the OP.

      OP is looking for advice of positive nature.

      • +8

        OMFG, thanks for the TLDR. Why do people write up so much irrelevant crap?

        Obvious solutions in order.

        1. Take the tenants to QCAT http://www.qcat.qld.gov.au/matter-types/residential-tenancy-…

        2. If that fails sue them directly - Yellow Pages, Lawyer section near you.

        3. Call the Consumer ombudsman and make the insurance company pay up. https://www.fos.org.au/

        4. Maybe hold off on the kids…

        • +2

          I have seen normally that law is for tax payers or law abiding citizens. For people on social, everyone see them differently and OP might not get anything.

        • +12

          OMFG, thanks for the TLDR. Why do people write up so much irrelevant crap?

          Therapy ? Venting ?

        • +9

          lol at sue the tenants.

      • Baysew for OP!

    • I dont know why you're getting downvoted…a TL:DR was the first thing i looked for in the comment section

      • Whats a TL:DR?

        • Too Long Didn't Read

  • +1

    Very sorry to hear about all this. Also I understand a little the health side as had my thyroid removed cause of cancer, so my heart really goes out to you.

    I may not be able to give any real advice, though I have to ask why on earth didnt the neighbors advise earlier!?? We had a local band turning our inv property into the a concert hall but thanks to the neighbors texting me we got onto the agent and knocked it on the head quite quickly.

    Others will know better concerning this next peice of advice - getting onto a lawyer to investigate the property manager breaching the contract. Of course legal action means more headaches and im guessing you dont need that so perhaps writing the whole thing off as valuable experience is the other way to go..

    • Hi sweety.Thanks for replying.Hmmm,i wondered the same thing at first…but then we went down to check out the repairs and caught up with one set of neighbours.As it turns out,they (and the rest of the street) had other issues…like the massive drug bust…manufacturing and selling (that involved a swat team,our home being used as a snipers vantage point, seven black vans,plus aerial surveillance of the street and surrounds.Another neighbour showed us the pics they took on the day).That occurred at the house on the right hand side of ours (i didn't know it had happened until that point).
      I am sort of at a point where i may just have to accept this as a huge,HUGE learning experience…but damn it's hard (i hate when good,honest,hardworking people do the right thing… work hard,save,save,save and then get pooped on from a great height.I would feel the same toward anyone here who experienced this.A lawyer would be fantastic,but honestly,i think my strength would fade quickly during such a fight (for my to-be-born child…hell yes i would fight,but i think they would want a sane Mummy).xo

      • +14

        Any advice as to where to go

        A country where your tax dollars aren't hard at work paying ferals to breed even more parasites.

        • +2

          Nigeria?

        • Gold. What can Australia do?

        • @JetBombat:

          Nigeria?

          I was thinking a Gulf state.

        • +7

          @bogstation:

          Gold. What can Australia do?

          Pay them a bonus for getting sterilised.

          We currently have it backwards, we pay ferals to breed — a dysgenic policy.

        • @Scrooge McDuck: Contraception and abortions should be totally free! Imagine the savings from having to pay welfare for hordes of people that could have not been born…

      • +1

        Can I ask, without sounding too judgmental, but why on earth did you buy in such a rough area?!
        It might look like a bargain investment on paper but the drugs, feral people, break and enters/stealings and other badness just make it a nightmare to live in such a neighborhood.
        I know the central coast and there are certain areas I wouldn't even want to walk into.

        • +1

          I know the Central Coast too. I wouldn't walk alone around Town Hall or Kings Cross at night time, however that wouldn't stop me investing there (with the CC good for positive gearing, and Sydney CBD good for capital appreciation on a negative gearing approach). I think this is a matter of bum agents not properly acting in the interest of the naive property owner rather than classing a whole demographic as dodgy.

        • Hi Sweety…well,we bought because the price was good (of course it was…i can see why).The neighbours has said that the area was not too bad (nothing really in the way of issues…i asked before we bought,just to get some idea of the area from those who actually lived there),and that was reassuring.Plus,where this house is,it is literally 10 minutes to the beach (on foot),public transport is on the corner,shops right behind us and it was a quick 10 - 15 minute drive to the freeway.I thought we had hit the jackpot.

        • +4

          @parisienne:

          Hi Parisienne,

          It sounds like you've had a really rough run with tenants, and hopefully your luck turns around for the better from this point forward. On the plus side, over the last six years property prices on the Central Coast have appreciated around 50%, so perhaps the damage might be an opportunity to renew some weary parts of the home and add value.

          Secondly, it is probably worth seeing the situation purely from an 'investment' standpoint, rather than taking the challenges on a personal level. As a whole, you've hopefully still come out ahead, and coming online and sharing here might be helping someone else going through a similar situation. I can see a huge benefit in agents taking photos as part of their inspections, so that any major issues can be identified early. I've been renting for nearly ten years, and a tenant carries a lot of responsibility in caring for a property. I hope you received the full bond amount back.

          I think if I were in your position, I would seek legal advice. It sounds like the conditions of your agreement with the agent were likely broken, so it may be worth taking legal action to recoup some of the cost where the agency was negligent.

          Finally, I wish the best for you and your husband in your future plans, and hopefully you'll both be able to laugh about what's happened in a couple of years when things have turned around.

          All the best from the community here.

    • +2

      The neighbours might not know how to get in contact with the owner or realtor. We had a string of criminals living in the house next to us; first a prostitute with a bunch of kids and neglected animals, then drug dealers who kept a girl hostage [we found out when she escaped and ran to our other neighbours' house], then an identity theft ring. We knew they were bad neighbours, but the owner (we assumed the house hadn't changed hands) was renting it himself and we didn't know how to get in contact with him. When the identity thieves managed to steal tens of thousands of dollars from his superannuation (which is a pretty poor indictment of the security of the superannuation manager as the house owner is way too young to be withdrawing) he finally stepped up his game. The current neighbours seem ok.

      • GOOD GOD…sounds heaps of fun (that girl situation is horrific though.Poor darling).

  • +16

    Burn it down and claim insurance for everything.

    Jks

    • +35

      Hopefully with the tenants inside.

      Jks

      • +27

        I can help for a small fee

        Jks…unless you're being serious.

        • +6

          Explain to agency it's unfair because you're just a tradie trying to get ahead with an investment property?

          Jks

        • +1

          Of course not (now,this "fee" that you speak of…).HAHAHA.

        • @parisienne:
          Maybe claim Life Insurance on the Tenant's name… paying out to you.

          Jks

      • Snigger.Nice thought.

    • +1

      HAHAHA.Don't think for one sec that this option didn't cross my (anger hazed) mind.
      But then,the old neighbours almost did that with their meth lab… and didn't succeed (so you know,chance passed).HAHAHA.

  • +6

    Sorry to hear.

    I don't have any experience in rentals, but it looks like each state has different Laws in place for the obligations/duties of an Agent. However I would say it will be prudent to have a read of your contract you have with your Agent (if you have one??) and the T&C's within. You'd need to seek some Legal advice as it sounds like they have not been doing their job and therefore may be breaching some Laws and/or your contract terms. It also looks like to be an Agent you have to have some special Agent's qualifications to even represent an investor, in some States.

    Some links here if you're legal minded :

    http://www.landlordwatch.com.au/legislation

    Otherwise insurance options?

    Hopefully someone here works in Real Estate and can advise more. There should be some Governing bodies that you can approach and raise this issue with.

    Also, depending on how attached you are to this property, it may be nicer for your state of mind to repair and sell.

    • +1

      Thank you muchly sweety for the advice.I will look into that link for sure,and see what i can get from that.I think some advice as to what governing bodies are available for this industry (similar to my APRHA governing body) would be a great way to go.
      Hmmm,attachment ? Yep,i think i can say,hand on heart,that i am emotionally invested in this place.
      During my (and my hubby's)icky childhood,The Entrance was one place that we both have happy memories of,and was a source of fun and escape.I wanted that for us again when we were winding down from work (i would be 60,hubby 65…i would work in a little cafe a few days a week,he had visions of Bunnings employment until he was 80.Mornings would be at work,afternoons down at the beach).It was an idyllic vision.

  • +3

    This is why I want to stick to renting.

    • hmm but you wont have equity forever, and helping landlords paying their houses.

      • Maybe I'll eventually buy a house for myself, not to rent away. But that's when the rent:buy ratio makes more sense. Right now (in WA at least), it's tipped more to the renter's side. :D

    • You want to stick to renting so you can destroy peoples house ? Or you dont want to buy in case you need to rent it later?

  • +7

    "why on earth didnt the neighbors advise earlier!??" probably neighbours didnt know who own the property, or they just know the agencies not landlord.

    • +3

      Furthermore, and as renter, there are many times when I have wanted to tell the owner badly about problems building up in the property we rent (leaking bathtub, mouldy walls, leaking shower, accumulating water damage), but have been unable to do because I had no contact details, only the agents details, and I explicitly showed them the problems every inspection, but they didn't seem to care.

      Fast forward a few years, and the owner blew her top upon finding out about the accumulated issues. Hard for me to feel much sympathy when I've been trying to get those same issues fixed without success for years. Owner had no problem then getting my contact details, and phoning me.

      Personally, I think that leases should have to include the owner's email address and/or phone number, as well as their name.

      And as a responsible renter, I would also support the neighbours being given the same details.

      The only thing stopping this from happening is the owners or agents don't want people to be able to contact the owners directly. This problem does NOT come from the neighbours or the tenants.

      • You do know you can go to the council and do a property search which will give you the owners contact details (usually postal address - where they send the rates notices to) - even if they live overseas.
        You can then make contact, air your concerns and hit them up for the search fee, which I'm sure they'd gladly pay upon finding out the PM has let them down.
        But make sure he keeps the "source" of his info confidential - you don't want the PM gunning for you when you vacate as payback for dropping them in it.

    • meet neighbours around your invest houses get phone give contact detail tell welcome to call any time you get back to them.

  • Yes it's a sorry state, I guess that's the investment risk.
    Insurance is the only thing you have unfortunately.
    Do a cheap makeover and sell it.

  • +13

    I wonder if you can sue the real estate agent? They've obviously not done their job. In saying that you will have to fork out more money potentially. Maybe have a chat first and see if you have a case.

    I would not blame anyone else at this stage (ie, neighbours).

    In terms of lesson learnt, id also get a new property agent. This should've been done after the first bad tenant.

    Good luck OP

  • +5

    No one has suggested bikies yet. So civilised lol.

    • +2

      HAHAHA.They MAY have been a help,but apparently they were busy with other,more lucrative,ummmmm - "entrepreneurial" ventures to worry about us.+1 TO EVERYONE FOR TAKING THE HIGH ROAD THOUGH.

  • +4

    3 months to evict wtf, is that the law?

    • +2

      YEP….three months (eviction notices are to be given,in writing, to the tenants,90 days prior to termination of tenancy…so said the agent).I wanted to give two weeks,but we were informed that this would end in US heading to the tribunal.FAIR HUH ? That legal minefield,is one main reason i feel i am in this mess (90 days leaves a lot of time to cause damage…so does two weeks,but at least less rent is lost and the water may have been able to have been dealt with earlier).Landlords (i hate that term),have very few rights at all.

      • +1

        my paros had an issue before where they evicted and becuase the property manager did the 'hasty' thing and hand delivered the notice/mail to their door about going to cour or evicting or whatever it was, when we got to caught it was dismissed as they said it had to be properly 'delivered' through australia post system, even though handing it in person was more faster and to the point.

        such an old and antiquated system - i definitely think landlords at times can get taken advantage of by damaging tenants or defaulting tenants alot easier. unfortunately some tenants get screwed by landlrods but these are usually in cases where there's no official agreement or anything to rule by, but when done by the book, the tenant has way too much power to screw over the landlord IMO.

        One of the reasons I'd like to stick with shares and equities more than property once i build a sufficient property portfolio. So much less of a headache knowing you don't have to deal with these property specific issues.

        • So true SaberX…i have been on the other side of the rental agreement too (as we all have).The last landlord we had,refused to give back the bond (which was being used as part of our home deposit…so much easier back in the day), because there was a ring of old rust on one of the elements on the stovetop.We spent 3 hours scrubbing one night to remove it,and he then declined to give back bond because the agent found a couple of tiny marks left from bluetack on our bedroom wall.We did eventually get it back,but damn it was hard.
          Shares are an awesome way to go,but like many of us,after the GFC,my super took a turn Sth (hard),and $over $15,000 was wiped off…i would die of we had shares and we lost it all.Bricks and mortar just felt a more stable gamble.

        • @parisienne:

          Some of the excuses they give to try and get out of giving you the bond back is just mind blowing! We once had our bond refund refused because of a broken cord on a blind in a storage shed. It had never worked properly and luckily for me I had it documents on the initial damage report and had approached the real estate agents 3 times asking them to fix it.. but it was a hassle!

      • Hi, sorry to hear about your ordeal. We were landlords for a few years but ended up selling the properties convinced that there are very few good tenants out there. My daughter being a renter said there are very few bad tenants but I beg to differ (I even considered my daughter a bad tenant but that's another story).I even wanted to put some of our tenants on the black list but you had to pay a subscription to the black list to do that, and yes there is a landlords'tenant blacklist'.All you can hope for is that their karma runs over their dogmas.

        • I would be prepared to pay for access to that list…my concern is that these people have since tried to get other properties since all this (tiny seaside town,with only a few estate agents, means that everyone knows everyone else in that industry,and since our agent was one of the longest established ones,others spoke to him apparently).I don't want these people to do this to some other poor couple,and leave a mass of damage and debt in their wake (although.as hubby said,"what's to stop them going in with someone else,having their name on the lease and going under the radar that way " ? ). I would think that it would be a pretty silly person who would sign a lease for someone,and then may not even live in the property…only to find out that the way they left our place was the way they left the next (and the lease,being in this other person's name,then becomes THEIR issue.
          I have to be honest and say that i think bad tenants are more common than bad landlords…like EBAY / the legal system as a whole / any financial dealing you can think of, the balance of power is swayed heavily in the wrong direction (the little guy gets screwed).

  • +14

    I had a very similar situation, bad insurance, bad property manager and bad tenants.

    If you haven't already done so, read your entire insurance PDS and make sure you have been paid for everything it covers. My insurance company initially offered me $3,000 out of an $11,000 claim, and outright denied that I was covered for things clearly stated in their PDS. I had to go to the financial ombudsman and eventually got my claim settled in full plus interest and an extra $1,000 for the hassle.

    Change your property manager. A good property manager actually checks references and nips things like this in the bud before they go beyond what your insurance covers.

    • +9

      Yep! Insurance companies will definately try to screw the customer so a thorough reading of the policy document and a hard line with them is essential. They profit from naivety and weakness and will have ZERO hesitation in screwing you over. Its their business strategy. Also don't hesitate to take it to the appropriate ombudsmen. Do it ASAP if they are playing their games with you.

    • +2

      Thanks sweety.The old agent is gone (LOOONG gone),and we have a new agent (with this story ringing in their ears,and the request that they be more vigilant).
      I am so sorry this happened to you as well…no one deserves that,and i know that the insurance company lot are about as caring as bank managers if you were to default.The fact that they don't even stick to their own,convoluted contracts prove that.

      • +1

        Doesn't matter if they are gone, unless he's dead. He signed his name on the documents, the insurance will hunt him down if he's liable. Two organisations you never mess with - ATO and insurance co.'s.

    • +4

      name and shame this so called 'insurance' company that didn't want to pay what was in the PDS.

      • +1

        Happily, it was OnePaths Landlord Insurance, underwritten by QBE. So it was QBE I had deal with through the ombudsman.

        • nice and thanks…will add them to the list ;)

          QBE can be a mixed bag at times. Sometimes they are excellent, other times, not so good.

  • +3

    Sounds like your property manager did zero inspections at all and just sat on their bums and collected their management fees. Had a similar situation, although with not quite as bad damage as yours. We harassed the PM and eventually got them to paint and replace things at their cost (about $3000 worth).

    • That is why i am fuming with them.They STILL collected fees,even after these people left (for "attempting to recoups rent" )and claimed to do inspections,but failed to see the backyard and the balcony railing (at the front)fallen in a heap into the garden below.

    • +4

      Don't they all? Property Management in Australia is one of the biggest scams I have ever seen.

    • +3

      +1 for you

      All investments have their risks, and you've just experienced one of those risks first hand.

      • +7

        There's a difference between "risks" and people actively causing property damage/not doing their job.

        • +5

          Yes, but that is a risk of renting out investment properties.

    • CAPITAL GAINS ???? Sweet juicedpixels,due to the fact we still owe a mortgage on it,have had tenants from hell and were getting nothing like the rent we would have received had this been a Sydney property,"capital gains" are more "capital losses".

      • +2

        The question I want to know is if it is your investment and your baby, why weren't you more proactive in protecting it/ putting the PM to task after the first issues? You kept paying him as it dilapidated.

        I get everyone has lives but in 2011? Xmas hailstorm in Melbourne my dad's landlord was patching holes in his roof on Xmas day to protect his investment.

        • Don't the agents get paid a percentage out of the rent being collected? Or did the OP pay separately even though no rent was forthcoming?

          As a side, I hope these tenants rot in hell. Best of luck getting this sorted!

    • +3

      @juicedpixels

      I fail to see how capital gains has any bearing on this. Care to elaborate? Any rise in value of anything is something of an "unrealised gain" until sold. At which point, it might become capital gain.

      Are you suggesting "capital gains" are an appropriate reason to trash someone's property?

    • +2

      How much OP gain in capital, isnt your concern. OP here to discuss about tenant/agent problems. If yoy haven't got any useful insight, its best to keep your opinion to self.
      By your logic, ppl can trash restaurants,banks, shops, cos frankly they do make lots of profit.
      Clearly something wrong with your life.

      • Thank You so much for saying that.The statement made there makes it sound that anyone who makes any form of profit on anything is liable for any open slather that comes their way,simply because they tried to work hard and get ahead.Tall Poppy syndrome is shocking,and anyone,in whatever (legal) way they make cash to not have to sponge off others should be applauded and their efforts respected.Does that then mean that all here who work,and earn enough to live should have their livelihood trashed "just because you made money and i didn't " ?

  • +3

    So sorry to hear. I feel the pain just reading your account. But please keep a perspective, and not let the stress of this effect your health too much.

    • Thank you sweetheart.I appreciate your reply hugely.
      As i am typing this,i am just over 30 hours post embryo TF,and find myself thinking "hey,this bubba of ours…she / he is my priority,my only focus" ,but i still feel a lot like a Mumma Bear…want to protect what is my child's.That though,is worthless if we have another bubba leave us…so all i am trying to stress about is "what happens if i run out of mints during my pregnancy " ? (morning sickness must haves for me).HAHAHA.

      • -2

        Off topic but re morning sickness and mints: (don't) try separation/divorce. I'm on my 4th month, docs say it'll pass. And I'm a guy. At least I have the kids, that's what makes it worth it.

  • +1

    Advice: Email/call the agent, say you are concerned there may have been a 'misappropriation of funds' (ie, they haven't been using your money in accordance with your contract i suppose). They should react to this, as even an allegation of this can lead to extensive auditing/investigations from governing bodies.. so you may gain some leverage in terms of them assisting with issues. Otherwise, ACA?? :)

    this advice is based on what an ex-agency owner in qld told me.. so do your own due diligence.. and best to refrain from definite public accusations.. due to defamation laws.

    might be some more ammo/ideas here somewhere:
    https://www.qld.gov.au/law/laws-regulated-industries-and-acc…

    regarding insurance:
    always check the pds! i went to use one company.. arson was covered, but intentional damage by a tenant was only covered to 10k.. the insurance company confirmed that if tenant lit house on fire.. 10k would be the total payout.. yeah I went with someone else of course.

    regarding your issues:
    i've had all the same sorta thing with my IP.
    You need to find better real estate agents.. also.. i find asking less rent can massively increase the applications.. allowing you to pick and choose.. a great tenant can be worth $$$/week compared to an awful one.. as you've discovered.

    • A HUGE THANK YOU Stitchy.Hearing that this has happened to you (and others here) makes me feel (PLEASE,NOT IN AN EVIL WAY AT ALL),"better" (that is, that this doesn't just happen to myself and those you see on Today Tonight like programs ),and that you have all come out at the other end (wiser and more experienced in what not to do).
      I will read that link for sure,and get what advice i can from it.Anything i learn from here,i will pass on to any and all who may need it later on (i don't want to be reading this scenario from anyone if i can do what you are all doing for me).We are not rich,we just want to do the best we can,with what finances we have,to ensure a future that doesn't involve living on someones lounge after we retire.

  • +2

    We had the exact same thing happening in Sydney about 3 years ago. AAMI turned out to be OK after an initial hesitation, lost about 9 month rent, paid a fair few repairs ourselves and had to store and eventually remove the tenants possession, but overall there was not much we could do about it. We took the Real Estate to Fair Trading which was an absolute waste of time. Not much help, I know, but such is life.

    • Oh sweety,i am sorry about your situation…..that is horrible.You are right…Fair Trading was my first point of call (as much help as initial agent).I am reading all these responses,and it seems that if you have a property,you will get this at some point or another.I am glad i asked you all about this,as i now know that this is (not acceptable or fair),but a part of what happens at times.You know how when something horrible happens,and you feel as if you are alone ? I don't feel that anymore.xo

  • +3

    Sounds like one of my properties. I remember reading the local paper one day and asking my husband what our tenants name was- the headline was drug house a fortress. It explained why my husband was often pulled over by the police after he collected the rent. There were lots of tears and months of late nights repairing (it went downhill quickly after the bust - at least the police paid for a new door after busting it down) until it was ready to sell but it did sell ( and we made a nice profit) and 10 years later it doesn't seem that bad. Hang in there - it feels terrible, I couldn't believe how bad people could live- but it will get better.

    • maximum…no words,just..THANK YOU (that last sentence choked me up).I hope that you and hubby now live in peace and are able to laugh (a little) now.xo

  • +9

    Sorry to hear of this and I know exactly how you feel.
    We had several rental properties and what you experienced happened to us about 50% of the time.
    The last one we had to clean up we began inside with shovels and wheelbarrows, it was that bad. The carpets were urine soaked and all the walls had been painted by the lovely children with the purple paint their parent had given them.
    There was human shit thrown up on the ceiling and walls. These people were screened by our agent and had 6 monthly inspections… well, supposed to have.
    People wonder why there is a shortage of rental properties and have to go through so much to get one. They need to thank the ferals out there for the situation they have created.
    We have sold all ours except for one that has a good tenant and we will look after them and let them stay there for as long as they like. When they go it will be sold off also.
    At the end of the day we have found better net returns through other investments and that comes without the heartache of providing accomodation for ungrateful pigs.
    We used several different property managers / agents and found they were never to be trusted or relied on. They only wanted their fee and were just as deceitful as the bad tenants.
    As for your losses… the reality of it is that you can't get blood out of a stone and these feral tenants know that.
    The law is very much in favour of the tenant and the LL has almost none as you now know. You can take them to the tribunal and try your luck but it usually turns out to be just a waste of time. If they are drug addicts they only have to cry poor me and my addiction and they get a pass on the whole deal. Other "special" circumstances can get them a get out of jail free pass as well and they know how to play the system.
    Your ex tenant would have moved on now and most likely in the process of wrecking someone else's property. They never seem to have a problem finding another place? One of our ex tenants had three identities and somehow created another one each time they had to find another place.
    The people that profess investing in property to be a good idea either have not yet been stung by one of these dirt bags or are lying. Sit back and let the money roll in they say… yeah, sure. What BS!
    Anyway.. like we had to do you will too.. clean up and repair the place and wear the cost. Sell it and get right out of the business of being a landlord providing accomodation to bogan ferals and being a revenue source for dodgy agents / property managers.
    BTW.. 4 weeks rent as a bond is an absolute joke as you would have also found out. These days it needs to be tens of thousands if you want to cover what they can potentially do to you without much trouble.
    Sorry that I could not have given you better advice.

    • I never understood why the property agent where we rented was so grateful when he inspected our (very clean) apartment on our departure. I didn't know people can be such pigs. Why on earth would you do such a thing, trashing a place on purpose? Smearing feces on the walls… that's just inhumane.

    • No xywolap,you gave me lots of advice.Hubby has been the voice of reason (as always) and has mentioned the whole "blood out of a stone" thing (which yes,i know),and more to the point,i know that whilst this sort may live like ferals,feral stupid….THEY ARE NOT (they know stuff i don't even know exists…and how to work it).
      I did have an idea that it would be a lot harder than just "watch the cash roll in" (hell,if that were the case,would we not all be on this bandwagon ?,would we not all be sitting pretty,never having to have discussions like a recent thread about "working less,living more" ? BS is an understatement.
      Sweetheart,i am sorry that you too have had to spend weekends cleaning up pooh off walls / floors,repairing the mess whilst dying a little inside (yep,we have been there,repaired what we could legally…no electrics / plumbing / doorlocks etc),ripping up flooring and re-doing doors),and you are so right…4 weeks bond ????? THAT COVERED 5 INTERNAL DOORS (yep,that's it).If we had had $10,000,it still would have come short (because building a new bathroom from the foundations up is "sooooo cheap" )
      Hubby wants to sell….i am still in two minds,but that option is looking better all the time.

    • +5

      My landlord decided to sell his sole investment property when I told him it was time I had to move out - he didn't sell earlier because he actually didn't want to put me out as I was finishing up uni. )I definitely wasn't a typical uni student) and he didn't want to take the risk with an undesirable tenant.

      Said there's no way he'd find a tenant like me. Treated his house like it was my own and I own two dogs, but they're also professionally trained. He ended up giving me the furniture for my new place and my bond with no expectation to have it bond cleaned because he said it was immaculate. I still paid for it to be professionally cleaned afterwards and kept a key to organise inspections and to check on it whilst it was on the market and I was in my new place. He lived interstate and was very grateful. I think he only came by to inspect the property once a year, and it was usually just a quick stop to sit on the couch and pat my dogs whilst he came up for holiday lol and just to ask me if anything needs fixing. If anything broke, he would have it sorted straight away. He's my reference for if I have to rent interstate for a short stint and has helped me get places that state 'no dogs'.

      Also I'd never bother with owning investment properties. REITs suit me just fine.

      • +4

        You sound like the perfect tenant and he, the perfect landlord. And it is a two-way street, no doubt.
        Good to hear stories like this :-)

        • +2

          He was very trusting. He even did everything by the book. An oven broke so I just said how bout I go find a few, you pick what you're happy with and I'll pay for it and you reimburse me. I'd even put the tax invoice in his name and he'd pay straight away so yes a good level of trust.

          He'd tell me months in advance when he was coming down for his two weeks holiday but he was welcome to drop by at a moments notice. I'd tell him he's welcome anytime, he'd even take his shoes off when he came in haha.

          I know it's a two way street, but I find that when you rent beautiful houses you get good landlords. I always offer 3-6 months up front rent if I know it's going to be a hard place to secure.

          I don't understand how some people live in squalor or just have a disregard for people's property. I probably have to move again soon, it's not definite. I let my current landlord know months in advance. They don't want me gone but have happily put me on a month to month and they can keep The extra month or so of rent I've already paid if I leave earlier as just a token of gratitude.

      • +1

        The landlord at my previous property which I shared with 2 blokes in their 20's was the same.

        The real estate agent(s) was not, though. We went through 3, the first two were so rude, invasive, unprofessional, useless and uncourteous. The last one was just so-so. We were documenting problems with the house with photos and dates, and passing them onto the real estate agent with no reply, but the moment we were 1 day overdue in rent - he was on our case hounding us 3 times during that one day. Also, they'd come to do inspections, say it was clean to us, then tell the landlord it was getting trashed.

        That invoked the landlord showing up for a visit himself unannounced (which is illegal, but we're bloody glad he did). He told us he'd be firing his agent because as far as he could see, we were 'perfect' tenants (and gave us the story of his past nightmare tenants who were using the curtains to clean up oil spills, and the like) and he didn't know what the agent was going on about. We then told him and shown him all the problems with the house, and he stated that the agent never told him anything about what we reported. Once we told the landlord, he had all the problems (there were lots and would have been many thousands worth) sorted out within 3 weeks.

        He ended up renting to us directly without an agent putting their finger in the pie, and when the three of us started to resent living together and decided to move out and go our separate ways, he was devastated and he said "there aren't many tenants as nice and clean as you guys, especially blokes in their early-mid 20's", and told us he was going to sell the house once we had all our belongings out as he's not willing to take another risk on bad tenants.

        Based on my experience and the others I constantly read about, it's a wonder to me why most landlords decide to place their trust in a real estate agent to look after their investment. They should just do it themselves - saving money, hassle, and heartache.

        • You're right about a lot of real estate agents being shady, a lot of them come across as rackets…I can understand the rent being late thing, even if it is only a day but sounds like a whole lot of gas lighting going on with that weird behaviour of conflicting opinions and reports.

          I don't screw around when it comes to money and maybe they want to be on top of it because the whole unpaid rent thing seems to be one of the most common problems… Totally understand that it was a mistake on your end though.

          I have found that the agent of my current place is excellent but they'd want to be considering the quality of properties that they manage. I think people just don't have the time or inclination that goes into vetting tenants, and it sucks that they get burned when they outsource the management with no real fault of their own.

      • +1

        Want to rent a place on the Central Coast ? I would drop the rent to get a tenant like you.You are definitely the minority when it comes to tenants (PS:Your puppies can call our place their's too).

        • Thanks for the offer but I can't see myself going down that way. I lived in Long Jetty on the central coast until I was about 10 haha. When I do apply for houses, I literally send in a bio of my dogs with a cute picture and their training certificates and I think it actually helps me get the place even with the no dogs stipulation.

          It's absolutely disgusting how your place was treated. The whole wasting water thing is terrible beyond the massive bill, water is a public need. If it was my joint I'd have had the tenants dealt with regardless of the legalities and ramifications. I have good insight in how the DPP views crimes that aren't 'prosecution worthy' so that's why I don't care ;) Those types of tenants also don't pay for lawyers to enforce their rights anyway. the game's chess it isn't checkers.

          You just need to be real clinical with how you deal with the issue now. Your tale is why I would never bother with property investing, but you'll look back on it and realise it all worked out.

  • +15

    It sounds like you really neglected the rental property.

    1. If you didn't receive rent payment from the agents, you should have chased this up immediately and not let it drag so long (months???). Usually you could atleast call up when you haven't received rent payment on time every week/fortnight/month or however they pay you. But instead, you let it drag and you put yourselves in this position.

    2. If you had some time, you can organize to view the property yourself even once a year. You can set expectations with the agent to inspect every 3 months and send you reports, but you didn't do anything. The agents then just felt this property we didn't need to care because the landlord is "nice" and managed to trash it.

    3. With the water bills they would be under your name? How do you even let this rack up to $1800 before actioning.

    4. If your tenants break the lease agreement, which it sounds like they certainly did. You can evict in 14 days.

    I think all you can do now is try and recover through insurance, but insurance's are dodgy and obviously they are trying to avoid the pay out since there seems to be a large sum involved in this one. Last time this happened to a landlord I knew, they paid excess and managed to recover all the excess rent and take the bond, but they still lost money with repairs etc.

    Your biggest problem is because the "damages" exceeds the bond, you've put yourself in a tough position. Landlords should never be "easy" with the real estate or else this is a perfect example of what happens.

    • @bao28
      Re unpaid rent.. If you receive a monthly statement from your agent then it can be that far behind before you start… the agent them begins the process with the tribunal which can take months to be heard.
      Smart ferals know they can promise to pay back the amount owed at a given amount per fortnight and the tribunal will allow it. They then pay a couple of rents and pay back installments and then casually stop paying again and the owner has to go through the entire process again. It is not as simple as you seem to think and they can rack up many months of unpaid rent.

      Property inspections… If you prefer to do this then why would you be paying a property manager? That is exactly what you pay them for.

      You can evict in 14 days… Really? Please tell us how you do this.

      BTW.. How did they neglect the property?

      • A chainsaw can evict in 14 minutes, get you a free holiday in 14 hours, get you a new boyfriend in 14 days and suicide in 14 years :) it's a cycle thing.

      • +2

        https://www.tenants.org.au/factsheet-05-rent-arrears

        As you mentioned, tenants certainly can agree to pay through tribunal and not pay. But you can kick them out and if they don't move out apply for a sheriff's order to have the locks changed and 'force' them to vacate

        Ideally in this situation, u know they r shit heads and want them out ASAP since they aren't ever going to pay the arrears anyway.

        I'm surprised the PM still gave 90 day notice to vacate the tenants when they r so far behind.

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