Parking Fine by Local Council - Fined during The Time of Purchasing Tickets

Lvkze on 29/10/2016 - 20:18
Last edited 31/10/2016 - 18:04

Hi OzBargain - Long time lurker, first time poster.

To cut a long story reasonably short, I was at my local shops for some grocery shopping. The ticket machines accepts coins or Credit Card (CC).

Tried to buy first ticket at 9:51am with my CC at the ticket machine but came back with an error and wouldn't accept it (the card worked everywhere else, and i checked my account after this kerfuffle and it wasnt insufficient funds) - so I clicked cancel on the machine but a ticket still came out. The ticket said "$0.00" fees paid and expires at 10:21am. I put this ticket on the dashboard.

Being suss about ticket inspectors and the validity of this ticket - I chose to buy another one, but this time with coins. Didn't have any coins in my wallet, so started looking in my car etc… was about enter a shop to get change, but my mate was coming out and walking by and gave me some coins. Ended up buying a second ticket at 9:56am (EDIT).

Got back to my car - and saw the parking officer pressing his little pad infront of my car. He said we wouldn't rip it up because he was halfway generating it. The infringement was also issued at 9:56am** (EDIT).

EDIT: Took the infringement from the parking officer and Ended up displaying the correct ticket on my dashboard and went on with my shopping.

I disagree with the fine - so I will appeal this.

My question is:

  1. Is there any "grace" time in which someone is allowed to park their vehicle and buy a ticket?
  2. If an appeal with the Council fails - is it worth taking to the Magistrates Court?

Thanks in advance! :)

P.S I am in Victoria.

EDIT; 31 October 2016 - Hi everyone; thank you so much for your feedback. I think I have a good grasp of options from here. I will be sending appeal documentation off to the Local Council on Wednesday, after Melbourne Cup public holiday.

To the moderators - please close this forum :)

Financial

closed Comments

  • Forenti on 29/10/2016 - 21:08
    +13

    Why did it take an hour to buy your second ticket though?

    • dlf73 on 29/10/2016 - 21:25
      +1

      Yu can never know what councils will do but I think if the fine was the exact same time your ticket has then, with luck, common sense will prevail….hopefully.
      Also, go Ford's!

      • Gershom on 30/10/2016 - 08:27
        +3

        Go Fords? They've already gone mate, last Falcon already rolled off the line. Who could have guessed that a 40 year old design cast iron engine wouldn't be popular?

    • vkze on 29/10/2016 - 22:59
      +7

      Hey forenti - i think i was half distracted when i wrote this post.

      First ticket bought : 9:51am
      Second ticket bought 9:56am
      Fine issued: 9:56am (as I was coming back)

      • Forenti on 29/10/2016 - 23:32
        +4

        That makes sense. Well in that case I definitely think you have grounds to get it appealed, especially considering you had that ticket $0.00 ticket that showed expiry at 10:21am. All the best with it

  • scrambledeggs on 29/10/2016 - 21:45

    There's probably some leeway, but not 35 minutes, lol. Dreamin.

    • dlf73 on 29/10/2016 - 21:51

      But the second ticket is the same time as the infringement. The council dont one what happened prior to 10:56!

      • scrambledeggs on 29/10/2016 - 22:04
        +1

        Good point.

        As others have said, don't tell them anything but the fact you went to buy a ticket and came back and he was fining you. You should be fine.

        • altomic on 29/10/2016 - 22:06
          +7

          You should be fine.

          and not fined

        • Kangal on 29/10/2016 - 23:52
          +1

          @altomic:
          So fine no fine ?

        • bargainslut on 30/10/2016 - 00:35

          I feel hungry when I look at your name:)

        • May4th on 31/10/2016 - 20:46

          @bargainslut: see if we said the same about yours it would be inappropriate

        • bargainslut on 31/10/2016 - 22:34

          @xbai: That must have a taken a while, congratulations.

    • vkze on 29/10/2016 - 23:00
      +2

      Sorry scrambledeggs - half distracted when I was writing this (half thru writing appeal and was posting this haha)

      First ticket bought : 9:51am
      Second ticket bought 9:56am
      Fine issued: 9:56am (as I was coming back)

  • oscargamer on 29/10/2016 - 21:46
    +5

    if your ticket says 10.56 and his infringement says 10.56, you cannot lose

    write to them with a copy of both

    don't bore them with all your stories, simply state you had a valid ticket at the time the infringement was issued and ask them to withdraw their infringement

    if they don't, take it to court and you will win

  • shanakatak on 29/10/2016 - 22:39

    1.Grace period is not that long
    2. After a ticket expires you are sometimes required to remove your car from that spot.
    2a. Since you had a previous ticket showing you were parked after the expiration you are on grounds to be fined.

  • vkze on 29/10/2016 - 22:52

    Sorry all - purchased 2nd ticket at 9:56am (5 minutes after) pls do not lynch me :)

  • Baebs on 29/10/2016 - 22:59
    +1

    "Tried to buy first ticket at 9:51am"
    "Ended up buying a second ticket at 9:26am (EDIT)."

    Wtf.

    • vkze on 29/10/2016 - 23:01
      +1

      haha, i know - i re-read it after i edited it. I mucked up the times because i was distracted whilst writing my appeal and posting this.

      • Baebs on 29/10/2016 - 23:04

        So confused lol.. Earlier comments are saying 1 hour, 35 minutes then I read -25 minutes.

        Think you should delete this post and make a new one.

        • brotherfranciz on 30/10/2016 - 11:41
          +1

          I'll have what she's having.

  • bargainslut on 30/10/2016 - 00:38
    -1

    As he was only half way through writing it I would have taken it from him and ripped it up. It not technically a fine if it's not complete. Yes, I done this once:)

    This will probably be overturned.

  • KaTst3R on 30/10/2016 - 02:01

    Some carparks only have 1 central ticket machine and there were a couple of times a queue had formed so I was actively looking out for the inspector while standing in line. Pretty much a similar situation whereby the car is parked and the ticket is only issued 5 - 10 mins after. Interested to know what is your outcome.

  • Randxyz123 on 30/10/2016 - 06:36
    +2

    Had this happen to me. I parked my car, walked to the ticket machine. Within 2 minutes of me arriving back the inspector was there writing out the ticket. NOTE: Half the time credit cards don't work on those machines. I don't know why.

    What is really stupid is that

    1) I'm pretty sure he saw me parking

    2) You get 2 hours of free parking, you just need to display a ticket.

    I basically told him to f off. I'm not a confrontational person but I was so pissed off.

    If he had touched my bonnet of my car it would have been still hot. I was gone for about 3 minutes.

    Scan in both tickets. Also if there is anything that comes up on your credit card bill that says it was declined screenshot that as well.

    It doesn't make sense that you didn't have to pay for the ticket but also that you were fined. His logic was probably that it was a invalid ticket.

  • Eca1 on 30/10/2016 - 08:42

    Appeal to the council. If they knock you back, even if they say they wont consider write to them again. Consider sending letters from you mate to verify your story or parts of your story.

  • Peter c on 30/10/2016 - 09:12
    +4

    Some reader's Comprehension is not too good with this post. This is a fault with the system on two accounts.

    1. It's the council responsibility to ensure the ticket machine is operating correctly. Their records from this particular machine would indicate that no credit card transactions took place throughout the day. This should be a red flag to them.

    2. If natural justice prevailed the council would have to prove your guilt. The only way to achieve this is in court. You could have your mate do a stat dec verifying that you obtained change from him. The stat dec would not be conclusive but it all helps. The system breaks down when you leave your car unattended while you go and buy a ticket and a overzealous parking cop fines you whilst you are purchasing your ticket. I and I'm sure many others have stood behind people who have trouble using the machines, taking an inordinate amount of time. This allows more of an opportunity for a fine to be issued. I would of also asked the parking officer to write on the back of the ticket your reason for not having a ticket on the car at the time of issuing the ticket and have him sign it. If he refused video him and ask him again at least you have evidence that you requested him to do this.

    Good luck with it councils rely on people not bothering to challenge parking fines.

    • vkze on 30/10/2016 - 11:38

      Thanks for the great advice Peter C.

  • ozbjunkie on 30/10/2016 - 15:06
    +1

    Am I the only one to observe that by your account you had a ticket valid to 10.21 and were fined just before 10? If displayed the guy should never have started writing the infringement.

    • vkze on 30/10/2016 - 16:52

      I was told by the infringement officer that the even though 10:21am ticket was displayed, it was not valid because "the fees weren't paid on the 10:21am ticket"

      • [Deactivated] on 31/10/2016 - 19:16
        +1

        Sounds like BS to me. A valid ticket is a valid ticket regardless of the price. Which council is this? Which bylaw have you been charged with? What is the exact wording of that bylaw. Entirely possible that you won't need to rely on the "I was getting a ticket" defence if you were in fact displaying a valid ticket

        • [Deactivated] on 01/11/2016 - 10:37

          Also the free ticket could be a feature of the machine for when the credit card transaction fails so that the customer can still park (for which the council enabled this feature) and it also doubles as evidence of a malfunction.

        • vkze on 01/11/2016 - 19:24

          @The Land of Smeg:

          Thats actually a really good point. I didn't think of that.

          Also I'd prefer not reveal the exact Local Council. However, we are in Victoria under the:

          • Road Safety Act 1986

          • Road Safety Rules 2009

          Apparently, I have broken Road Regulation 207(2). When I checked up AustLii, the regulation within this link says "the driver must pay the fee (if any)" etc…

          http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_reg/rsrr200920…

        • [Deactivated] on 01/11/2016 - 19:41

          @vkze: Just double-check that the fine you have given is done under RR2009 and not a council bylaw which could be similar but different.

          I would take photos of any instructions you can find on the machine/parking sign/ticket itself.

          I'm not a judge (or a lawyer, or council officer), but based on the link you posted I don't see how you could be guilty if you followed all the instructions correctly (and I assume that you must have followed most of the instructions if the machine did output a ticket, it depends if you then displayed it correctly).

          In fact it explicitly says "if any" in regards to paying the fee, meaning that a fee is not necessarily required, and the fact that the machine output a ticket with a future expiry period would mean to me that the fee is not required for that ticket to be valid otherwise the machine would not have output a ticket with a future expiry period at all.

  • ozbjunkie on 30/10/2016 - 17:28
    +2

    But the ticket says valid! And gives an end time. And lots of places are free for the first half hour, so it's reasonable to trust that 0 fees validates 30 mins parking.

    I think there's no way you have to pay, just make sure to contest at every level ie write a letter, court, etc.

  • HeWhoKnows on 30/10/2016 - 18:07
    +2

    This is so funny "To cut a long story reasonably short". Lucky we didnt get the long story. Would have run out of internet!

  • oscargamer on 30/10/2016 - 18:31

    can you post a photo showing both your ticket and the infringement (blank out rego etc…) and i'll tell you if you are good or not so good

  • DarkOz on 31/10/2016 - 12:54

    Did you display the first ticket 9:51am - 10:21am? If you didn't then the parking ranger is not wrong at fining you but you still can dispute it. You have 2 tickets they shows that you shouldn't be fined.

    What you can do is take both tickets to the local council and explain the situation to the reception. I am sure the reception can direct you to the right department to have the fine waived.

  • goingDHfast on 31/10/2016 - 13:49
    -1

    Relevant video (NSFW)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cinvIr-O1k8

    • D6C1 on 31/10/2016 - 14:05

      wth did i just watch?

  • Gronk on 31/10/2016 - 14:04

    Prepare a written appeal to your local council and include photocopies of BOTH tickets as supporting evidence, I think your chances are good, good luck…

  • dj69 on 31/10/2016 - 14:18

    Your first ticket, even though no money was exchanged, was valid. Did you not display this ticket?

    • vkze on 31/10/2016 - 18:02

      Hi dj69 - yes after the first (invalid) ticket spat out , I was already nervous about how long I spent at the machine, and so I went back to placed it in my car dashboard, before commencing my search for coins.

      My logic was "better show something, than nothing at all"

  • Christy Bambi on 31/10/2016 - 17:18
    +2

    Its funny how people believe the system of parking fines is there so people pay for parking. It has nothing to do with that. Its about the money making revenue through the infringement notices. Of course many times the parking inspectors will be lurking in the shadows waiting for you to park and when they see you with no parking ticket they will come and write you a ticket no matter what you say. They have to make their quota for the week.

  • CandyMan on 31/10/2016 - 17:55

    Tl;dr
    According to the nsw rules you can submit an appeal and should be accepted. There's a provision for a fine being issued while getting coins

    Probably vic has something simillar

    Keep the tickets as proof though
    Good luck

  • enzioFirenze on 31/10/2016 - 18:23
    +1

    challenge the ticket, you have solid ground. Like someone else said, councils rely on people to no challenge tickets, there was this one time I got a ticket for a parking infringement after like 2 months and after checking my schedule, I haven't even taken my car out that day, needless to say, they said sorry ad rescinded! What if I paid like a fool?

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