I'm trying to buy these shelves off ebay and while they give you a postage cost on the page you have to request a total before you can process at checkout HOWEVER you must agree to buy the items BEFORE they will give you a total. Surely that must be illegal in Australia.
MODULAR CHROME WIRE SHELVING SHELF STORAGE 600x450x1.8
Store: klika-trade
Any opinions?
The postage is $70. No thanks.
$34.20
Off the listing (Probably due to my address.)
Postage:
AU $70.30 Standard Postage | See details
Is 'they' ebay or the seller? Have you contacted the seller for the cost? Otherwise the seller has a postage calculator in their page, just enter your postcode
To be clear I can't process the purchase at checkout without requesting a new total that will include postage. I have to press a Submit request blue button that warns me if I press the button I am committing to purchase. The total on the 'listing' page does not come up at checkout.
You can contact the seller to determine the postage cost so you are aware before you commit to your purchase or use their postage calculator so you know how much it will be so you can find out what the total will be. Although you commit to purchase you don't have to make a payment yet.
Yes I could just take the risk that the postage calculator is accurate however I don't feel that is a legitimate process. I live in an area that borders North and Central Queensland. They exclude North Queensland in their delivery. Taking a chance that all their process for calculating postage agree BEFORE being given a total just seems like a recipe for disaster.
@bigpallooka: Then message the seller for what the cost of postage will be for the item to your location
@bigpallooka: The cost would be the same as to what they quoted you unless they are outright lying because they would be using the exact same method to calculate the postage. I'd just commit to purchasing it and if they then send you an invoice with a higher amount than what they quoted just refuse to pay, their loss of a sale.
I've had similar situations where I ask for postage quote on bundling items and once I commit to the purchase they have always sent an invoice through ebay with the correct updated cost. If they ever refused to update the costs or sent a higher amount I'd just refuse to pay.
Leave a message for the seller at checkout:
"My purchase is conditional on the total postage cost not exceeding X as was agreed by you on Y."
I could just take the risk that the postage calculator is accurate
Well, if they have a postage calculator, that means you can get the postage.
You can't just not use it because you assume it may be wrong for whatever reason and then complain that you can't find out the postage.
If the postage calculator gives you a number, you can insist on that number. If THEIR calculator is not correct, THEY should pay for the difference, not you.
@MrTweek: If the postage calculator is the correct method of applying postage then why isn't it automatically added prior to a commitment to purchase? If as most people seem to be saying it's the correct source for the postage cost then why do they even need a separate process to request a total? I get that everyone thinks it's no big deal and having read all the comments I now agree however I'm not wrong in saying at best it's a poorly implemented purchasing process and at worst it could be perceived as unethical. The fact that ebay would probably protect me from a screw up is incidental.
I can't count the number of times I have had interactions with retailers, government departments and other entities where if I presumed the information they gave me at different stages of a transaction was all correct and not summarised properly BEFORE I signed off I would have had to reapply, complain, ask for a refund or just generally have the interaction go to shit. I find it frustrating that the general suggestion is to ignore a problem, ignore the process in place then if I don't like the result, ignore the transaction commitment and don't pay or ask for an adjustment. It's inefficient and plain stupid to have to buy something that way. No other online purchase I have made required me to add amounts from different web pages, keep that total in my head, agree to the price and supply of goods, THEN receive a written confirmation of total. That is just ridiculous IMHO but apparently not most other people here.
My original post was asking what other opinions on this process was and the assumption seems to be I asked because I don't know how to get around it. I do. I did. I don't think I should have to.
@phew: It seems posting obvious answers to unasked questions is popular but confirming I have already done that is very unpopular. I'll just point out to the numerous neggers who didn't like my reply to your post that my original post was a request for opinions on the legality of the Commit to Buy & Request a Total being a single action not how I could get around it. Not sure how my answer qualifies for such disdain when you answered a question that wasn't asked. Just weird.
Not that I don't appreciate the fact that you tried to help out.
@bigpallooka: I understand your concerns, I could be wrong here but I think it's just that the freight company they used is not integrated into ebay so ebay is unable to set the different costs for various locations. In terms of being illegal I wouldn't think so as you do not have to pay yet before receiving the total and I can't really think of a better way for ebay to manage these situations. If a company were to force you to pay for the item and then send you the additional postage cost then I would think that was dodgy as they could very well hold you to ransom with your initial money.
Except you never 'commit to purchase', that's just ebay thinking it has actual power. Unless you're using a selling account (where you might lose your feedback) just 'commit' and then burn them if the total isn't what you want, they have no ability to do anything about it.
That seems to be the consensus although it's not my preferred way to do business.
It's unclear if this is ebay or the seller.
Are you new to eBay?
No. I have 600+ transactions and 100% rating. I'm pretty sure all the negging is from people who haven't bothered to check out how different this process is from the normal ebay process and just think I'm being a whining bitch. In those 600+ transactions (most of which are purchases) I have never been asked to press a commit to buy button BEFORE I had a total including postage confirmed. I have had to ask for postage costs before committing to buy but that is not the situation here. Yes I can ask for a quote via the 'Ask the seller' option and that will protect me from any errors between the postage calculator and the total after I commit to buy. I really can't understand why people would think this is OK. Maybe I have dealt with more unscrupulous operators and companies who get everything wrong in real life than most which makes me over cautious.
Of course it is illegal.
You can't enter a contract unless you know what it is and understand it.
It may be "illegal"… but its not really enforceable.
It is like going to get your car new tyres at a Tyre Yard, you sign the paperwork and drop off your car.
However the paper work has the tyre fees but doesn't have any price for the labour fee.
You come back and they've got the new tyres out ready for you, then they let you know of the labour fees.
What now?
Most likely they will ask for you to fold and pay the tyre fees and the labour fees.
If you don't fold, they will rip off the paper work, and won't accept your payment.
End of dispute.
Even eBay has a "Return/Cancel" transaction built in… I've never really used it, but you can read up about it in the Help section.
In this case the OP just doesn't pay for the stuff.
What's the seller going to do sue them? If they did they'll quickly find out they are in the wrong.
You sound like dodgy person.
How do I sound like a dodgy person? And why in the world would you neg me?
Yes, he should commit to buy.
And after he finds out the total price, and if it unacceptable, then he should cancel the transaction through eBay.
The seller's not getting ripped off, the buyer isn't getting ripped off.
So you think this is inconvenient for sellers??
But I ask you, how is this not inconvenient for the buyer??
So he should just do as I explained, and if people begin Cancelling Orders en masse …well that would be the cue for eBay to get up and fix the issue. eBay won't fix a problem if they think they don't need to.
You cant charged for works not quoted, so just hope they fitted them! :)
You can't enter a contract unless you know what it is and understand it.
WRONG.
Er, this is like the first thing you learn in contract law at uni.
Diji1 - you could not be more wrong
ever heard of…
Offer
Acceptance
Consideration?
how can the OP accept something before they know what it is?
Of course it is illegal.
it's not illegal because there is no contract.
like oscargamer post.
ever heard of…
Offer
Acceptance
Consideration?
how can the OP accept something before they know what it is?
this listing for an item + freight. the buyer cannot accept nor pay before the seller issues an invoice.
The issue is that eBay itself here is illegal.
Under eBay's terms, when the OP "commits to buy" it means he actually enters a legal binding contract.
If a contract fails to include basal conditions like price, then it means it is un-enforceable/null-void.
So even if eBay and the Seller decided to unite and sue the Buyer, or force him to pay for the transaction…
…well then they will lose that dispute.
The buyer need not worry.
i just went to the listing and down the bottom is a box to enter postcode to get shipping cost
if thats what it says thats what you expect to pay any difference just cancel the transaction
i was a ebay seller always have people not paying nothing happens to them its the seler that gets screwed
over with having to get fees credited back etc.
In the case of you don't know beforehand and dislike the postage cost after and you request cancellation the soonest after, the seller should be in position to accept cancellation. Should seller open unpaid item dispute you can contact eBay customer service to remove it.
I have read this a couple of times and still fail to see what the issue is, normally you would go ahead with the purchase based on the price the postage calculator provides, that is the shipping cost they have provided and the basis on which you are agreeing to purchase. If they want to increase the price the original commitment to purchase is then voided, you can either agree to the new price and continue with the purchase or cancel the purchase.
For whatever reason, you don't trust the calculator so you just message them prior to committing to purchase to confirm the shipping cost, I fail to see the issue.
They have told you what the shipping cost will be, just because you fail to trust it doesn't make it illegal.
I think the issue is how you look at it. I purchase hundreds of items every year online and you normally have freight/postage added before an invoice is generated. I can think of many purchases where the freight quote is generated on the listing page but they are always transferred to the checkout or the option to regenerate freight cost exists prior to checkout. I have had to ask for freight quotes on numerous online purchases however no one has ever demanded that I contract to buy BEFORE giving me that quote. The fact that the postage calculator is separate to the billing process just feels wrong. As you point out I could just order than bring up any discrepancies before paying. Looking at it from your perspective they will provide an invoice once they have all the details but I don't see why they require a commitment to buy first. Unless they just don't want to screw around generating invoices for tire kickers?
I have had to ask for freight quotes on numerous online purchases however no one has ever demanded that I contract to buy BEFORE giving me that quote.
You asked for a quote through the calculator and got one it's the same thing, You want to go ahead with it, they will add the shipping cost to the item price just like everyone else, It's just that it's a manual process, not an automatic one. I think the reason it is manual is sellers often discount postage for multiple items.
I keep hearing the same thing from you and others and I accept that you don't see it the way I do. However the context of what you have quoted back to me and choose to ignore is that the postage quote is not part of the checkout process. We could argue the point back an forth ad nauseum. From your perspective the postage has been quoted so what's my problem? From my perspective they are asking me to commit to purchase and payment before affording me the right to see an invoice total. From your perspective I can just add the amount quoted on the listing page for my postcode to the product price and commit to buy. From my perspective there is no reason for them to demand a commitment…they could just provide me a total at checkout. The only reason I can imagine they require a commitment is that they have no mechanism in their own billing and ordering process that allows them to easily add freight before completing a sale.
I think your point regarding multiple items is the crux of why the process is organised this way and makes sense even if I think it is a flawed process. It's logical to assume the way they process orders and billing may be set up in such a way as it makes perfect sense to them…and you…just not me.
@bigpallooka:
I understand your perspective but just dont really think that it is a valid one.
From my perspective they are asking me to commit to purchase and payment before affording me the right to see an invoice total.
Do they provide an invoice? I tend to think invoices are genreally issued for services, so you can see what it is you are paying for before you pay. Where as with goods you normally recieve a receipt after as you already know what it is you are paying for.
From my perspective there is no reason for them to demand a commitment
My guess is that this is because you are effictevly removing the item/listing for sale from others so the only way to do that is if you are actally buying it, if you just want a total price for the item without commiting to buy you can just contact the seller and ask for one, but if you want to effectively remove it from the market you need to commit to purchasing it.
@bigpallooka: The way seller listed the item is different than what most sellers does. Most sellers provide postage cost in advance. Even these days sellers can also choose to use calculated type postage cost so that they just enter in weight and dimension and eBay will display the postage cost automatically based on buyer's post code.
The seller you buy from is in disadvantage that many buyers do not understand what the postage cost is and may just change their mind , even they have provided postage calculator.
You can inform the seller this forum thread about their postage policy so that they may change for the better.
@tryagain: I think your perspective is valid however to give you context and correction of your mistaken assumption regarding invoicing, the checkout request for commitment to purchase before supplying a total states that committing to buy will generate an invoice. This is an explanation on the "Request a Total' page.
Here's how it works
This is why I think it is all about their specific billing process, how poorly it interacts with ebays billing process and probably validates your perspective of keeping track of stock so that they aren't selling what they don't have. I still maintain it is a flawed process however your (and others) opinion that it is low risk to commit is probably accurate as the mechanisms exist to back out if there are discrepancies.
Ebay postage calculator is linked to australia post.
The issue will be hes likley sending via courier which needs postage to be added manually.
just contact the seller for a quote first.
Otherwise you can cancel the transaction saying there was a problem.
Hi, the eBay product listing you want to buy has postage calculator in the bottom, thus the amount that shows up will be the maximum you need to pay for postage cost. Should the postage cost seller quote higher than should and you don't want it, you are not required to proceed with payment.
ITT: OP makes mountain out of molehill
Exactly. Tells op to message seller, he makes excuses about flawed process lol. If the checkout price does not match the quote, you do not have to pay and eBay will take your side. Don't understand what the fuss is about "taking chances".
I agree I have been too concerned with the wording and process and the reality is there is no real risk in the purchase when you consider the safety ebay provides it's buyers. However I'm not sure why anyone would think the process wasn't terribly flawed. There aren't many circumstances where a retailer would refuse to give you a total for your purchases before you agree to make the purchase. It is really that simple. How many of the people who frequent a site all about paying the least possible would agree to ANY purchase without knowing the total? If it were anything other than an ebay transaction I think the responses would be totally different.
You could make the case that it's component pricing which is illegal.
Most ebay sellers are overseas and they don't care about ACCC anyway
Standard process if the postage is not listed in the postage section of the listing is to contact the seller and ask them how much to your postcode. You will then get the exact postage. Make sure you use eBay to contact the seller so the correspondence is recorded.
When you do "request total" the seller will send you a new Invoice with that same postage. If the postage doesn't match just contact the seller again to re-issue another invoice that matches the total they quoted.
I've done the above on eBay hundreds of times, never had an issue. Many times the postage is incorrect at checkout (especially when buying many items from the same seller to get combined postage) but doing "request total" and writing a message to the seller (there is a box to do that along with 'request total') will have them reissue the invoice and if you checkout again after that the postage will be correct.
And of course this is legal. Just like going into a shop and asking how much is shipping on this item, be given an invoice and pay it (if the invoice is incorrect, ask for it to be corrected, then pay).
And one more thing - if this happens to be an Auction and you have already won the auction (you do not state if this is "Buy it Now" or an "Auction") you have legally committed to buy already. You should check postage before bidding. If this is Buy it Now, then my previous comments apply.
This is an Add to Cart purchase not an auction. They don't ask you to contact them for postage cost, the demand you commit to buying before responding with a total.
"You haven't committed to buy these items yet
You'll commit to buy these items when you submit your request for a new total below."
"By clicking Commit to buy & submit request, you agree to purchase these items. "
I can see the perspective many have that this is a non-issue because I can back out if the price is wrong. I accept that. The only point I have left is that the process is very flawed and for people who obsess (as I obviously do) over wording, legalities and suspicion that everyone is out to get me (yes I am a bit cynical if not paranoid) it is bad marketing too.
Just send a message, not request total function, this is not the correct use of request total
Unfortunately it's the only option. It may have something to do with adding to my cart not Buy Now. When I go to my cart I can't complete the transaction without clicking on the Commit to Buy & Request total button.
I don't know if you are trying to be difficult on purpose not.
Here is the item:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MODULAR-CHROME-WIRE-SHELVING-SHEL…
First of all in the Item description it has "Quick Postage Check" tool right near the top. In my case I got $24.
Otherwise it also says…
"Freight - Read the item description or contact the seller for details | [See details]"
Click [See details]
"Services available: Freight- Check the item description or [contact the seller] for details"
Check the item description - nothing there
So click [contact the seller] instead
"Select a topic
Details about item (4)
Postage (10)
Combined postage (1)
Pay for item (3)
Returns (3)
Other (0)
We'll look for an answer for you"
Click [Postage]
"How much is shipping for this item?
klika-trade : All of our listings either have the shipping cost under the 'Postage and Payments' tab or within a calculator built into the listing description.
If you are still unsure you can call us during office hours on 03) 9790 0055"
It then also gives you a "Didn't find your answer? [Contact the seller]" button at the bottom of that to contact them in writing.
Why don't you just use the shipping calculator like a normal person and then decide if you want to buy it or not with that price in mind. That is enough information for you to decide to purchase or not. If you buy, with that shipping price in mind, then the seller will manually put that shipping price into eBay which will then invoice you once they have done so.
If you're still not sure, use the contact tools or phone them.
"Request total from seller" is a tool to manually request a new total from a seller AFTER SALE but before payment.
For example, the seller has offered you a special discount or you are asking for cheaper shipping because you bought multiple items which needs to be worked out manually, or like in this case where the built-in eBay shipping calculator can't accommodate their shipping price calculations and they need to do it manually.
@The Land of Smeg: I don't know why you think I am trying to be difficult by relpying with facts. I'm perfectly aware how to get to where I want on ebay. My original post was asking for opinions on the legality. My question stands. I have an item in my cart. I want to buy it but the total in my cart doesn't include postage. The very clear process from that point is that I can't get a total to pay - as the process asks - without committing to buy. That is the checkout process provided. I didn't make it up. I just added an item I wanted to my cart. The fact that I can find the postage price elsewhere is irrelevant to a checkout process that demands a commitment before a total. If asking for total isn't meant for that purpose why is it the only way I can get from my cart to a total and then make a purchase? It's super simple. I never asked anyone how to solve a problem I didn't even have, just what their opinion is of the legality of the process. I accept it's not actually an issue for completing the transaction for all the reasons that have been stated. Even though my first reaction may have been excessive it doesn't change the facts that many of the replies have either interpreted or presumed I am clueless. That may be on me for attempting to explain why I felt it's a flawed process instead of just ignoring any post that was off topic. To those who actually replied to my original question… Thanks.
@bigpallooka: yes it is totally legal and yes you are totally clueless, making it needlessly seem more difficult than what it is and you are irrationally sticking to your guns when at the end of the day it's your fault for not reading properly. It's a little bit harder than you're used to but it's not Rocket Science.
As you've already admitted, eBay clearly make it clear that the "request total" is for when you're already committed to buy it. It's not for what you think it's for.
An analogy would be if you went into a physical store and found a large bulky item with a special notice that it needs to be shipped from the store, gave you various prices for the region, and said to ask a staff member if you need help
You then ignore this notice and then take the barcode to the checkout to pay for it without saying anything. You're at the checkout and sign the purchase order for it, the checkout person has straight away arranged to move the item to the back to make sure no one else buys it and to prepare it for shipping as quick as possible.
You get up to payment and the checkout person works out the shipping and gives you the total price to pay.
Then (without even giving them a chance to work it out with you) you make a scene about how you think it's illegal.
Legal process? Yes. Are you a pain in the ass who throws all common sense out the window? yes
Message the seller saying you would happily buy if their system allowed correct postage prior to checkout, but as it doesn't you will be purchasing elsewhere.
No point dealing with them, there are plenty more sellers out there.
their system allowed correct postage prior to checkout, but as it doesn't you will be purchasing elsewhere.
This is eBay. The seller cannot issue an invoice until the buyer goes to checkout and requests a total. The seller has no control over this part of the process.
Agreed and from that perspective it's a legitimate process. It just feels wrong that asking a question "How much is postage?" can't be answered in the checkout process before I commit to buy. I have accepted though that I am probably grossly over-thinking the whole thing as there are plenty of mechanisms provided by ebay to dispute the transaction if the totals don't match.
Just like in real life, you would ask the seller for a quote on the shipping before an invoice is issued to you. On eBay, the seller cannot issue you an invoice without you committing to buy (but you can still ask them for a quote beforehand), so by default, they would probably choose the maximum cost for shipping and then you request them to correct it after.
Besides, your "commitment to buy" is really nothing. I'm sure many sellers (including myself) have had the frustrating experience of many buyers "committing to buy" but the buyers do not follow through. However, there are no consequences for the buyers.
Maybe that's why I find it an issue. I have never backed out of a transaction because I don't commit until I am sure of what I am getting myself into. In this case the checkout process doesn't allow me a simple way to do that. I have to circumnavigate the checkout process to get to a total that I can agree on. If the checkout process contained the option "Get a Total including postage quote" instead of a "Commit to Buy & Request Total" it would feel more legitimate.
Just like the post above of ronnknee, it's more of a commitment issue to buy at this point. You'd actually be surprised how many buyers commmit to buy and not follow through with payment. eBay sellers have this problem day to day with unpaid items. The best way is to contact the seller directly and ask a question for an estimate with the postage cost. Postage costs differ greatly for bulkier items and to certain postcodes outside Australia Posts delivery areas. Sellers run a business and would be happy to sell any item to you as long as the postage are covered.
I don't have any problem with asking for postage costs separately and being quoted a price then committing to buy. In fact one of my early reply posts mentions the fact that I did ask separately to the 'request a total' process (it was consequently negged into oblivion for some reason). I do have a problem with there even being a button that says I can't have that quote without committing to buy. It seems the reason most people believe this is a storm in a tea cup is that "Commit To Buy" is a meaningless term when it comes to ebay. As I have never myself treated it that way my problem with the process makes me seem like either a whiny ass or a naive child to those who don't consider it to ACTUALLY be a commitment. I should have considered the "ebay" factor before I posted.
Yes unfortunately that is the system that eBay has set up. It is quite complex They really discourage direct contact between buyers and sellers so they can collect their fees.
You can't even leave an email on the messages - it will automatically detect it.
If you can find out the direct contact number of the shop you want to buy it from that would be the best move for you.
I would actually think that the seller would also have their best interests with a favourable outcome for you and for them (they would want to get the sale of course!), as long as the shipping is covered.
I sorted it all out. The presumption that I am an idiot who can't figure things out may have been made by numerous posters because it seems like a simple think to get around just by contacting the seller. I did all that and received a reply and purchased the item all before many of the suggestions however I STILL had to click on the single "Commit To Buy & Request Total" button to complete my purchase.
The original post was a request for opinions on the legality of this which some people answered. I didn't reply to any of these because I wanted other peoples opinion and I found them informative. All of my other replies were in essence attempts to return the discussion to the legality or appropriateness of the requirement. My understanding now is that it's a process forced upon the seller by a combination of how ebay operates and their own processes. I still think it is wrong but feel it's more a glitch than any intent to be unethical.
It's not like it's a killer price or anything like that, pretty sure I saw a number of very similar shelving units last time I was at Bunnings.
I don't think it's legal but it's not worth getting revved up over, just take your business elsewhere.
I don't have transport and I require that precise size for a specific purpose. I have purchased similar from Bunnings in the past but they were more expensive. This seems to be the best price available with the postage price supplied.
op's problem (if we can call it that) isn't unique. it's actually a listing option called freight that ebay wants to remove, but haven't. however, they do discourage sellers from using it by a; sorting freight listings to the bottom of searches, b; promoting free shipping, c; give sellers badges for using their preferred s&h options; d; dsr penalties. there could be more.
It's not a problem as such just a request for opinions. That is interesting comment though. Do you have any more details?
What I normally do if I'm having problem with the seller, I told them directly even I'm not going to expect any changes. This way they're aware of problems. I'm not sure if you actually tell the seller or not but if you don't, I don't see the point of putting it here.
Why are there pages on this? It's really not hard. Contact the seller. if you don't believe the seller for any reason or they refuse to give you a total walk away. No one is forcing you to buy.
Thanks for the advice. Like most of the advice here though it doesn't really relate to my original question. As I have stated multiple times I asked what peoples opinion of the legality of the process was. Apparently most readers interpreted that to mean I am too stupid to figure out how to sort it out but that wasn't the purpose of the original post. I was unnecessarily overreacting (by what most posts say) to a process I feel is flawed and unethical. I don't feel that way anymore. Just that it's wrong.
Whether or not it's legal is trivia. It's a bad deal. Walk away.
It's legal if you agree to it.
But just use the postage calculator FFS and if they try to charge more don't pay, just report them to eBay. Have you really got nothing better to stress over?
the page has the postage calculator?
Why is this a thread?
If you still can't accept that, then just message the seller like 99% of the population?
You sound like a nightmare to deal with lol.
What about this one