E10 fuel is unavailable so the gas station has reduced the price of U95 to $1.109/L. I don't know when E10 will come back online so get it while its hot. U95 is around +$1.25 in the surrounding area.
Location:
Vardys Road, Marayong NSW 2148
Vortex U95 Fuel for Price of E10 ($1.109/L) at Woolworths Caltex Petrol Marayong NSW
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And your time, always need to factor in time.
You live 75km from Blacktown?
95 means nothing unless your car requires.
You know what, my car isnt tuned for 95 but I'd take 95 over e10 for the same price any day of the week.
At the very least it means more economy, more range.
I heard that if your engine's compression ratio isn't that high and you use a high octane fuel, it's bad for your engine. Having said that, i think petrol companies already classify E10 as 94, so not much difference..
Whoever told you that using higher octane fuel is bad for your engine is talking crap. The only bad thing is you spend more money than necessary.
And less damage to your car… even if your car is E10 'compatible'.
There's more calorific energy in 95 than e10.
I personally dont care too much, I drive a V8 so economy is always poor and it has plenty of power on e10 anyway. 95 and 98 give a bit more but its not hugely noticeable.
E10 doesnt damage your car, whoever sold you on that rubbish needs a swift kick.
We as a country consume a metric butt tonne of E10 per day, and there isnt cars broken down constantly from it.
Really?
Octane levels just impact compressibility of the fuels, and thus mechanical efficiency.
(refer https://engineering.mit.edu/ask/what%E2%80%99s-difference-be…)No damage can occur if its compatible… what are you talking about?
Damage can occur to older cars whose rubber components may be degraded by E10 fuels, but anything built in the last 10 years should be good to go.
Really!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
Gasoline (petrol) 46.4
Gasohol E10 (10% ethanol 90% gasoline by volume) 43.54
Wikipedia could be wrong but I doubt it in this case.
@PCAviator: LOLWUT? Because of e10 fuel?? Let me guess, a mate of a mate had a rusted muffler on his car, and the muffler guy said…
I am interested in this though. I would like to see some source material and your explanation of why e10 causes exhaust systems to rust out…
@klownz: However, he forgot to take into the account the extra 2~3% fuel a modern, non carburetor equipped car will inject.
an o2 sensor will see the 3% lean state and adjust short term fuel trims; so while you consume a little more, the energy density is no longer directly comparable because fueling is now 1:1.03. Even a Narrow band, old sensor will throw some more fuel in.
The added bonus is that if you run an E10 (Assuming 94RON) in a car designed for 91RON, you get a nice 'buffer' for bad batches of fuel, and even if the o2 is long dead, the extra RON will likely be enough to resist detonation :)
@MasterScythe: Great explanation up until the last part. Pre-ignition/detonation/knocking is controlled by the knock sensors that adjust engine timing, not the O2 sensors. O2 sensors are a pollution control device and make slight fuel adjustments based on load and pollution output, ie: fuel trimming. Most people wouldn't know their O2 sensors were dead unless it throws a fault code. But yes, the extra RON could assist in detonation issues, but in older cars, you have to look at what was causing it to begin with.
Other than that, it's spot on. E10 has only a slight density deficit. And most people don't understand that 91 or 98 RON ratings has little to nothing to do with fuel density. Octane rating is the fuels resistance to detonation/knocking, not for MOAR POWERRRR!!!
Cars marked with 95RON only have this because they usually have higher compression engines and low RON fuel may cause fuel detonation.
You're correct; but I didn't mean to say otherwise.
What I meant was, if the o2 sensor was dead, meaning it didn't notice a SLIGHT lean condition, usually a higher RON fuel (in a car designed for lower RON) will still manage to resist pre-ignition.
Put it this way,
If a car is designed for 91 fuel (based on compression and base timing) with a 75% engine load has an AFR of 12.5:1;
You'll likely still be "fine" as far as 13.2:1, if you had a 98RON fuel pumping through it.
That said, 3% less fuel is only 12.86…. so its not even as much as my example.Where at 13.2:1 @ 75% duty, at the original 91RON, you will see detonation.
therefore; assuming a completely dead o2 sensor, a 3% leaner engine, using a 94RON E10, when the car was desgned for 91RON, will almost certainly be fine.
Sorry for misleading before, I was trying to make a blanket statement rather than explain AFR ratios, lol;
make sense now?@MasterScythe: All good! You have done excellent work on this thread already. I like reading comments from people who know what they are talking about…
I'm m just sitting down now with some popcorn and waiting for the bogans to come out of the woodwork with their tinfoil hat theories on why E10 is the worst fuel ever.
My top pick so far goes to drum roll…. Rusted out exhaust systems… :D
Because I'm sure unburnt E10 is somehow reaching the exhaust….
And that you're not constantly spewing water out of your exhaust anyway due to compression….
Note the sarcasm :P@MasterScythe: I have a new fave from further down by @086: Ethanol also absorbs water, so in time, your tank fills with a substance it can't burn!
They did research into this. 95 has about 3% more energy than E10, if your on-board computer is smart enough to figure out the difference between 95/E10 and the price difference is less than 3% then it's beneficial.
Otherwise you're wasting your money as the timing will be off and you'll lose that 3% efficiency or you're paying more than 3% for only a 3% gain in your distance.
Excellent video. Thanks for this. Going to save it for every time one of these conversations comes up. It's everything I have been trying to tell friends and customers for years.
@pegaxs: No problemo! It's a common misconception, as my old man was trying to tell me he puts it in his car when he goes on a longer drive down a highway which contradicts the manual which says 91 RON fuel is what the car is tailored for.
Higher octane fuels are suitable for expensive cars e.g. Mercedes, BMW which have higher compression ratios in their cylinders, increasing the efficiency of the Otto cycle (thermodynamic cycle) which petrol engines run on. It will be stated in your owner manual if you require this higher octane level, (e.g. 95), otherwise for standard compression ratios of 7-8 (most cars) the 91 octane or E10 will both suffice.
ELI5: 95 is only worth getting if your cars engine can use it, otherwise it is just a waste of money and you should hand in your ozbargain licence.
- and most turbocharged/forced induction engines.
Makes sense
find a united fuel store they have e10
I'd love if Australia followed a few of the EU nations rules and made E5 'compulsory'.
This comment is going to get a lot of controversy;
but the TLDR of it all, is that 5% ethanol basically just ensures a full burn of the regular old dino fuel, and even incompatible cars (EXCLUDING cork gaskets…) will have no problem.There is a lot of tolerance built into engines, and if a 1.6% fueling change (about 32% oxygen in 5% Ethanol) damages your car, there was a lot more wrong with it to begin with. E5 just means less polution and a slow down in the consumption of non-renewable fuel.
Pretty much all of the horror stories we hear came out of the USA, where some states did a compulsory E20 with VERY short 'change over' windows, and little education
I love E10 98RON in my built engines, it results in about 3% more fuel being "needed" (this is a good thing).
Which means 3% more cylinder cooling. (think of it as E85, with all the benefits EXCEPT octane; cooling, cleaning; combustion)
We usually see less knock instances and quite a decrease in EGT's.
Along with the usual benefits of a cleaner burn (longer lasting o2 sensors, cleaner bores, and nicer\cleaner sprays on the injectors for longer :) )But to each their own; I know not everyone is comfortable with newer technology.
Biggest issue most forget, is to make full use of any ethanol based fuel, it requires a retune, which is expensive and considered a modification, so illegal for provisional drivers and increases insuranve premiums.
Ethanol also absorbs water, so in time, your tank fills with a substance it can't burn!All fuel tanks have moisture/water in them, from temperature/weather changes and condensation from humidity. Its not a big problem as that small amount of moisture is burned off or collected in your fuel filter, and most fuel tanks dont pick up from the absolute bottom of the tank, usually a few mm above the bottom to mitigate this.
Many underground tanks on servos have alot of water in them, but it isnt a problem until that level goes above the suction point.
@086: Wrong! You would not notice a difference from a E10 tank of fuel to a regular tank of fuel. Most fuel injected cars would be able to make enough of a variation based on E10. If you are talking about E85, then yes.
A retune on a vehicle is NOT considered a modification. Most fuel injected cars will easily recalibrate themselves within seconds of using any E10. Even an ECU tune flash update for E85 would not be considered a modification. The only expensive part would be if you wanted to dyno tune it to get every last ounce of power out of your tune. There would be base tunes for E85 available for just about every standard vehicle out there.
As for E10 fuel absorbing water, yes, it can happen, but generally what happens is the water mixes with the ethanol and the ethanol mixes with the petrol and it all gets sucked up and burnt. You know what you mix into a tank if you have water in it?? Metho. You know what metho is? NO WAY!, its Ethanol!!! :D mind… blown! You have more of a chance of water separation in a straight petrol fuel tank (that you would treat with Ethanol anyway) than you would with a tank of E10.
And if Ethanol absorbs water, and Ethanol is being burned as fuel because it mixes with petrol, what causes this water to build up in the tank??
So take your E10/Ethanol non-sense elsewhere…
Metho is only Ethanol in Australia and NZ, btw. Its Methanol in other countries :)
We just had a problem with certain people drinking it. And methanol is way more toxic, so, out it goes.Ive heard that black boot polish can take the edge off drinking ethanol… which is just basically water anyway since all it does is absorbs water and leaves behind a watery residue called "water"…
- an engine tune does not require a mod plate. This is not a provisional driver problem. Even if it did, there's no way to prove it without a licenced copy of the tuning software, so "meh".
- Having a tuned car does not cost more in insurance. Phone and ask. Ive been with SHANNONS, AAMI and RACQ, and all of them didnt care I was in a 'modified car', or not. Same premium either way.
- Your engine can't burn water but it can consume it, so you'll never 'fill your tank'.In some uses, it's actually good for it. A byproduct of compression is water. There are MANY uses for water in an engine, look at water injection.
- If Ethanol ABSORBS water (Hydroscopic), and we burn ethanol, how does the water magically stay in the tank? Does it Absorb it, then instantly spit it out again? No.
Sorry dude, you've been conned by bogans.
EDIT: Oh, and 10% ethanol wont need a tune ANYWAY. Not that we get it, but for a limited number of cars even Americas E20 would have been OK.
Damn Marayoung near Blacktown, by the time I drive all the way there and back home, it would have cost me more than $10 in petrol :(