Optimal priced CPU for Vive?

LChurchMouth on 17/09/2016 - 18:56

Hi all,

I recently sold off my 4yr old desktop PC (water cooled i5 2500k) in preference of gaming on my laptop (all I tend to play is overwatch and SC2).

Now I have been captivated by VR and am keen to get the PC Desktop hardware to re-enable me to buy a Vive. But since Vive is expensive by itself, I am trying to make optimal purchases on the desktop to keep price down. I know GPU will be expensive and can't be skimped on, however I am a bit overwhelmed by all the Mobo/CPU options:

  • I am looking for OK to good performance, not best.
  • Apparently an overclocked 2500k would give pretty acceptable performance
  • Considering I just sold my 2500k and overclockable Mobo off for dirt cheap I feel a bit silly.
  • In the 5 years or so to the latest Intel (6th gen- skylake) CPU's, there have been a few generations of CPU's.
  • Are there any particular CPUs that offer the best price/performance ratio that I could use for VR? Overclocking is acceptable (I'd have to factor in some good cooling) but it would be even better if it worked well @ stock.
  • If they can be had second hand, even better.

Was going to go with mATX form factor.

Have any advice for what I should be looking out for?

Cheers

Gaming

Comments

  • ChillBro on 17/09/2016 - 19:07

    I just sold my 2500k and overclockable Mobo off for dirt cheap

    That's unfortunate, I heard the 2500k has a fair bit of overclocking headroom.

    If you're looking at CPU benchmarks, check this out: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

    Ignoring the Xeons on the top, the best value (although not necessarily required) would probably be something like the 6700k.

    Good VR performance is more demanding on GPU though. Have you had any thoughts into that?

    • ChurchMouth on 17/09/2016 - 19:15

      I don't think any bargains will be had for the 6700k.. I was hoping for something cheaper.

      GPU - I am already prepared to fork out for the GTX1070 but I am saving it to be my last purchase as prices are dropping.

      • ChillBro on 17/09/2016 - 19:48

        Perhaps listing a budget would allow people to help you more?

        • ChurchMouth on 18/09/2016 - 16:14

          I'd like if I could get the mobo+CPU+cooler for $500 or less I think. Seems like I could do 6600K for ~300$ (2nd hand or Kogan bargain), bottom of range (non-clockable) mATX mobo for 85$ (MSY new, better if I could get an o/c'able one though not liking my chances for 1151socket mATX being available second hand yet), semi decent air cooler for 60$?

          Targeting 500 $ for a 1070 or similar over the next couple of months seems reasonable too.

          So I have spent 1k

          add dirt cheap case 45$,
          second hand PSU 70$,
          existing SSDs, WIFI card, mouse/kb,

          Should be a pretty good VR/gaming rig for <1.2k

          Did I miss anything?

  • scrimshaw on 17/09/2016 - 19:10

    The Core i5 2500k is a very kick ass procesor that you can still buy for around $120 bucks.

    If you buy a new processor (i5 6600) for e.g its 305 dollars. A big chunk of that money is better spent on a good GPU.

    Definitely, definitely, consider buying a second hand Intel proc for less and use saved money on GPU.

    • ChurchMouth on 17/09/2016 - 19:13

      Is there something between 2500k and 6600k worth getting though?

      • scrimshaw on 17/09/2016 - 19:14
        +1

        Yeah I there are a lot of used server Xeons available.

        Ivy Bridge processors are good too and because it is LGA1155 it is still compatible with older motherboards in the 2012~2013 era.

        You will get ripped off on eBay — best to try OCAU forums first.

  • Kangal on 17/09/2016 - 20:14

    The way I see Intel Desktop processors:

    (old/slow stuff not worth getting)
    ->
    Core i5-2500K "Super Sandy"
    Core i5-3570K
    Core i7-2600K
    Core i7-2700K
    Core i5-4670K
    Core i5-4690K
    Core i7-3770K
    Core i7-4770K
    Core i7-4790K….all these with DDR3 are now outdated but great BARGAIN
    ->
    Core i5-6600K….the start of the new socket and lithography
    Core i7-6700K

    I should add that VR requires a lot of graphical power.
    However, once you step up to immersive VR such as:
    - in-room tracking
    - hand tracking
    - torso and leg tracking
    - Camera pass-through (eg Steam/Valve Vive)

    …then you will need something more powerful than a 2500K.
    Possibly a 4770K or better.
    But the requirements might get raised as titles do get more sophisticated.

    • Diji1 on 17/09/2016 - 20:17
      • in-room tracking
      • hand tracking
      • torso and leg tracking
      • Camera pass-through

      None of that is particuarly taxing on CPUs. The last generation of Xboxes managed it.

      • Kangal on 17/09/2016 - 20:22

        You crazy?

        Newer and newer games are starting to push the CPU envelope.
        Not to mention adding VR on top of that stresses the CPU out a bit more.
        And once you add additional VR features, it can start to bog down mid-range cpus.

        And that's just the state of current VR.
        It's likely that future titles will be more demanding.

        A 2500K is enough for your standard Oculus Rift.
        But if you want a more future-proofed VR setup, you should definitely upgrade to Steam's Vive and a more modern cpu like the Core i7-4770K.
        A 6700K would be nice, but its overkill at this current time (especially with sucky Aus pricing).

    • ChurchMouth on 18/09/2016 - 00:33
      +1

      Thanks I really appreciate you mapping out the cpu's like that!

      • Kangal on 18/09/2016 - 09:28

        No worries, I figured you would want it so.

        Just remember that Core i7's have hyper threading which can make a big difference in performance sometimes, and other times its negligible.
        And that the newer chips are actually faster (5% ??) going from one generation to the other, clock-for-clock.

        So an Intel Core i5-2500K running at 4GHz is actually slower than a 4GHz 3570K, 4670K, and 4690K.
        So when you compare it to the 6600K, its close to a 22% (x1.22) increase in performance.

        With that said and done, the best bang-for-buck processor is the 2500K which you can find popping up for <$100.
        The next best thing is the 3770K which I sometimes see ~$100 mark.
        If you look for anything better like the 4790K, you won't see much performance increase, but the price jumps to ~$300.
        And going further to the 6600K, again not much performance increase over 3770K, but price jumps to ~$400.
        And then going to the 6700K, we see meaningful performance increases over the 3770K, price jumps to ~$500.

        Just remember to hit up OzBargain for some deals.
        There were sales of $415 for the 6700k and $360 for the GTX1060… great deals

        • ChurchMouth on 18/09/2016 - 09:38

          Does this consider other performance gains of DDR4 ?

          If I get the 6600K and don't overclock it, am I better off with an overclocked 2500k/3770k??

          Considering if I went back to the 2500k/3570K etc.. I'd be investing back in old tech (mobo / ram) and also slower ram :/ Then again I should be able to pick up those old mobo and DDR3 cheap too.

        • Kangal on 18/09/2016 - 10:20

          @ChurchMouth:
          A 2500k, even overclocked… can't really compete with a 6600k.
          The 3770k is about even in performance, but its on the REALLY OLD 1155 socket.
          I wouldn't recommend getting one besides a purely cheap build as you have no support whatsoever.

          The newer 4770k and 4790k are on the 1150 socket.
          That is also an old socket, but you get some support for it today… nothing going forward either.
          These are easier to recommend over the 3770k, but they are harder to find for cheap (~$100).
          If you do find it for cheap, buy it straight away.

          The current socket is the 1151.
          That supports the 6600k and 6700k (Skylake), but it also supports the new chips that are about to come out Kaby Lake.
          It will also support the one generation after that Cannon Lake, but not the generation after Cannon Lake.

          So what do I recommend for the future?
          Well, history is a good indicator of what is to come : )
          Back in the day, a GREAT buy was DDR3 RAM, 60GB SSD bootdrive, 2500k and the GTX 680 (cutting-edge).
          Yes, five year old hardware!!!
          Its STILL competitive today, to the likes of slow DDR4 RAM, 128GB SSD bootdrives,6400 and GTX 960 (mid-range gaming rig).
          And that old setup can be upgraded to the likes overclocked DDR3 RAM, 256GB main drives, 3770k, and GTX 980.
          So if that was your setup, congratulations on a great configuration that out-lasted MANY generations.

          Wouldn't it be great to repeat such a steal… we'll we can!
          Getting DDR4-2600 RAM now is like getting DDR3-1600 RAM back in the day
          (fast, expensive, but prices are dropping very steadily!!!)

          Just as the above flash, getting a SSD now is also similar to back in the day.
          Faster, Expensive, but prices again dropping very steadily.
          Something like a 512GB 850 PRO main drive is not too expensive.

          And getting a 6600K now is like getting a 2500k back-in-the-day.
          I thoroughly recommend it, especially if you can get it for ~$250.
          The 2500k was upgradable to the 3770k for a nice boost… you can do the same with the 6600K.
          You can sell the 6600k for ~$100-Future-Bucks and upgrade to a 7790K (??).
          The Core i7-Cannon Lake would give a nice boost (35% ??) in performance for ~$400-Future-Bucks.

          And getting a GTX 1080 now is like getting a GTX 680 back-in-the-day.
          This new gen is a massive leap in performance when compared to previous gens.
          The 1080 will probably be equivalent to the GTX 1260, after a four-year service, sweet : )

          Here's an article that explains my rationale:
          http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-is-it-…

          So yeah, that's my recommendation:

          2011) Window 7, 60GB bootdrive, Core i5-2500K, 8GB DDR3-1600, GTX 680
          Upgradeable to 512GB maindrive, Core i7-3770K, 16GB DDR3-2100, GTX 980.

          2016) Windows 10, 512GB maindrive, Core i5-6600K, 16GB DDR4-2600, GTX 1080
          Upgradable to a 2TB maindrive, Core i7-7790K, 32GB DDR4-3600, GTX 1280.

          Please come visit this post in 4-5 years in 2021.
          And yes, I am a nerd.

        • ChurchMouth on 18/09/2016 - 12:42

          @Kangal:

          Great information, thanks a lot.

          I leaning down the skylake 6600k route for longevity, and not having to O/C immediately will make things a bit more simpler (feeling a bit time-poor at the moment). Just need to find a good Kogan deal again and also keep an eye out for an overclockable mATX.

          Thanks a lot!

        • Kangal on 18/09/2016 - 15:23
          +1

          @ChurchMouth:

          No problems.
          I'm looking into building one myself.

          As for mATX's, it's best to forgo disk drives (BluRay/DVD/CD) out of the build.
          And you will have to pay attention to things like dimensions of the mobo, fan, gpu.
          Also it's best to go with an SFX-L type of PSU, and probably "stand" the PC up vertically.
          Internal heat is your enemy so you might also have to opt for fan-blower style GPUs.

          As for the cases themselves, here's some suggestions for you:
          - Silverstone rvz02 (9.8L)
          - Dan case A4-SFX (7.3L)
          - Dr Zaber Sentry (6.9L)

        • ChurchMouth on 18/09/2016 - 15:59

          @Kangal:

          Cheers , I was actually thinking of making up some savings on the case, and getting this for <50$ delivered.

          http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aerocool-PGS-Q-Series-QS-240-Mini…

          I would hopefully be able to assess any cooling issues modify the fan layout if need be.

        • ChurchMouth on 18/09/2016 - 16:01

          @Kangal:

          Yes, basicly only will have a few SSDs and a wifi card to go in.

        • ChurchMouth on 18/09/2016 - 16:03
          +1

          @Kangal:

          When I was thinking of the build originally I was hoping for it to be light and have a handle to allow single handed carrying. Haven't found anything meeting these requirements sub-$100 though.

        • Kangal on 18/09/2016 - 16:17

          @ChurchMouth:

          You do know that tower case is about FIVE times larger than the Zaber Sentry, right?
          It's not really that "micro" coming in at ~33L.
          It won't sit in your home entertainment console.

          You won't have any internal heat issues, cable management issues, or component dimension issues.
          You can have a disk drive fitted in no problem.

          But if you decide to build inside this case, and later want to update.
          And simply move your build into another case like the ones I mentioned…
          …well you won't really be able to do so, and more than likely would have to buy new components.
          (It's easier to move to a larger case, than to a smaller case).

          But let me know what components/setup you've settled into.
          You can also make a "build" off pcpartpicker:
          https://au.pcpartpicker.com

        • ChurchMouth on 18/09/2016 - 16:26

          @Kangal:

          I appreciated the ones you posted (would be generally awesome to get the level of compactness), however I see the following drawbacks:
          - The form factor is a lower priority for me so i can't justify much cost for botique case
          - mini-ITX seems to make things harder with bargains and component selections
          - The long and super slim doesn't appeal to me for some reason , maybe in that it reminds me of a HiFi unit ? (dunno it is just personal, and also a cube seems better for carrying and not slipping out of hands)

        • Kangal on 18/09/2016 - 16:51

          @ChurchMouth:
          Oh ok, when you were talking about moving it… I thought you meant carrying it outside your house.
          Or in a backpack.
          Both of which are easier with long and thin (VHS-style, lol) form factors.

          But my suggestion would be the Cooler Master Elite 130 (19.8L)
          Or the FractalDesign Core 500 (19.5L)
          Or if you need one with handles (a redundant feature in my books) then there's the Corsair 250D (28.1L).

          There's some other options for you to consider here:
          https://turbofuture.com/computers/top-htpc-case

        • ChurchMouth on 18/09/2016 - 17:05

          @Kangal:

          It would be nice to be able to grab it by one hand every time I want to take it up stairs for some reason (handle would be good here). However if it is a trip out of the house I don't mind an extra trip to the car due to it's not fitting in a backpack.

          cheers

        • ChurchMouth on 20/09/2016 - 21:04

          @Kangal:

          Got anything to beat this tier 2 PSU for 100 (less 15%)?
          http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-XFX-TS-Series-Pro-550W-Power-…
          Thanks for putting me onto XFX

        • ChurchMouth on 20/09/2016 - 21:26

          @ChurchMouth:
          CRAP, it isn't modular.. I wan't modular

        • scrimshaw on 21/09/2016 - 14:01

          @ChurchMouth:

          The Antec High Current Gamer series has a modular product line, and while they are slightly expensive at $105~$117, they are not as pricey as some of the Tier 1 Corsair ax series ($255) (which are seriously not worth it unless you are considering an ultra high end build).

          It belongs in the Tier 2 category.

  • Diji1 on 17/09/2016 - 20:15

    Are there any particular CPUs that offer the best price/performance

    The attributes a VR system requires in a CPU is exactly the same as modern 3D games: highest single core speed possible. Multiple cores do not usually aid gaming performance and you should pick speed over number of cores.

    Above a certain performance level the CPU is not the bottleneck for a large majority of games, the GPU is as scrimshaw points out. Therefore from a purely gaming performance perspective it makes sense to buy less CPU power in favour of more GPU.

  • telby on 19/09/2016 - 09:32

    I not long bought a new PC for VR but don't have a graphics card yet. I can't decide whether to get the GTX 1070 or 1080, any advice?
    I went with Core i5-6600K CPU, Since i'll be only using the PC for mainly games.

    • ChurchMouth on 19/09/2016 - 10:08

      1070 might be better value, is the feeling I have got from research so far..

  • telby on 19/09/2016 - 11:52

    Thanks. I was leaning towards the 1070, a lot cheaper that's for sure. Also I only have a 1080p 144hz monitor, which the 1070 is supposed to be perfect for non VR games in that resolution. But saying that, I can't find any info on comparing the 1070 and 1080 in VR games, though it might make a difference when increasing super sampling. I'm thinking to get my Vive next month, so I have to make a choice soon.

    • akaakmdm on 19/09/2016 - 22:07

      I have a 1070 and pretty much everything runs at 90 fps at 1.25-1.5 SuperSampling (on an Oculus Rift). Flight/Driving sims are the exception and I sometimes need to disable super sampling unless I want to lower settings.

      However, I don't have a 144hz monitor and I suspect I get below 144fps for more graphically intense games (outside of VR).

    • scrimshaw on 19/09/2016 - 23:58

      GTX 1060 user here with 144hz monitor, I think for many current games so long as you're not gaming on Ultra high settings, 144hz is achievable

      if my card can handle it: 1070 is definitely OK for 1080p @ 144hz,

    • telby on 20/09/2016 - 16:16

      Thanks everyone, for the advice.

  • ChurchMouth on 21/09/2016 - 23:41

    Well thanks everyone, just dropped 1.1k on the ebay15 sale : Windforce GTX1070, 6700K (After all that discussion about optimized price!), Z170M mobo.

    Just need PSU, Ram and CPU cooler now :)

    Thanks all for convincing me to invest in skylake

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