Unusual Problem between Tenant and Landlord - Have You Ever Heard of This before??

LGOCAT9 on 04/07/2016 - 11:10

Has anybody encountered this type is issue before? I am a landlord (in SA) and have my property (average suburban 3 br house in the burbs) managed through a property manager. For historical reasons only, I receive the electricity bill in my name, I pay it for the tenant and then pass the bill to my agent so that they can bill the tenant for reimbursement (the tenant gets a copy of the original bill). I know this is not the smartest thing to do and will be putting it in the tenant's name in the future!!

Anyway, the tenant is about $2000 in arrears with his power bill (!) and is now claiming that he does not have to pay these arrears or any other power bill that I have given him in the past because I am not registered by the Australian Energy Regulator to sell or distribute electricity! He quotes "The legislation came into effect in June 2013 National Energy Retail Law (South Australia) Act 2011 (SA). Under the National Energy Customer Framework (NECF), the legislation is reciprocal in each State except Western Australia and Northern Territory (Electricity Law)." He says that I am in breach of the Act and is threatening to 'sue' me via the residential tenancies tribunal (called SACAT in SA). I think he is just looking for an excuse to not pay his power bill. His lease expires in August!

I would have thought that whilst this is not the ideal setup for a landlord that there must be thousands of landlords across Australia who do this, right?

Nobody, including my agent has ever heard of this before?

I would value any thoughts and help you may have on this?

Financial

Comments

  • cktftw on 04/07/2016 - 18:36

    Can I ask which suburb in SA is this?

    • GOCAT9 on 05/07/2016 - 09:41

      NE suburbs of Adelaide.

      • ravonda on 05/07/2016 - 18:05

        May I ask which REA did you go with? Pls PM me.

  • jason101 on 04/07/2016 - 19:26
    +9

    Are you gaming the system in SA to take advantage of a historical 45c Solar Feed In Tariff (in your name) then recharging the tenant for the power consumed while keeping the solar feed in yourself?

    • cuteduck on 04/07/2016 - 20:15
      +6

      I agree.. something is very fishy..not a complete story

      • MrFrugalSpend on 06/07/2016 - 12:40

        It doesn't matter if the OP is doing this to retain the tariff.

        Whilst I don't know the specifics of residential leases in SA, as far as I am aware it is legal to keep the power in your name and on-charge the tenant.

        This is very common in Commercial Tenancies - I work in the property industry and at work we pay electricity bills and on-charge the tenants as 'outgoings' all the time.

        Like the AER says, there is just rules about competition and charging in accordance with the standard tariffs.

    • serpserpserp on 04/07/2016 - 21:14
      +1

      I'd like to know this too. Is this a common practice?

      • GOCAT9 on 05/07/2016 - 09:47
        +4

        The meter that the tenant is billed from is not connected to any PV system. In any event, a friend of mine has a rental property with a PV solar on it. She gets the power bill in her name and bills the tenant for kWh that the tenant uses at the rate that the provider uses for imported power. In other words the tenant gets charged for all kWh irrespective of their origin (grid or PV). The basic premise here is, why should a landlord spend many thousands of dollars on a rental PV system so that the tenant can get free power - get real. It is, in my view unreasonable for the tenant to expect free power.

        This policy is explained in a watertight way in the lease agreement.

        • jwh on 05/07/2016 - 15:59
          +1

          So in the case of your friend, they would most definitely be a seller and distributor of electricity, as they are both producing it and on selling it for a profit. Would it be classified as income and taxed accordingly?

        • mshanann on 05/07/2016 - 17:34
          +2

          So is there a separate meter at the property to which PV is connected?

          I can only think of a handful of reasons why a landlord would have an electricity account of a rental property in their own name.

          Short term renters
          Share house style renters
          Solar tariff

          .. or some combination of above.

    • jenkemjunkie on 05/07/2016 - 19:28

      the plot thickens… Anyway OP sounds like he has one of them pseudo lawyers that are horribly inept at interpreting law type tenant

  • mrluke on 04/07/2016 - 19:33
    -2

    I don't think you have a leg to stand on. Your name, your responsibility.

    • MrFrugalSpend on 06/07/2016 - 12:42
      +1

      This is not correct, he has a contractual relationship with the tenant

  • chumlee on 04/07/2016 - 20:08

    Really depends how you have worded this part of your rental agreement. Needs to be very specific

    • GOCAT9 on 05/07/2016 - 09:48
      +2

      It is watertight in the rental agreement that the tenant is responsible to pay for all power consumption at the property (words to that effect) and all other utility bills.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 05/07/2016 - 18:23
        +1

        It's not watertight.

        The lease doesn't say pay you specifically, GOCAT9, for the consumption.

        Seek proper legal advice.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2016 - 20:24
    +1

    Cool story. Keep us updated.
    Ask the authorities first, if you can stop paying their bills, giving that they did not pay up to $2000 previously and they sent you written notice that they will not pay in the future too, you are entitled to stop paying their bill (disconnecting their electricity indirectly -maybe a phone call to the provider anonymously also to get it done in less than a month, rather than waiting for more than 3 months depth accumulation) I believe what you do is within your right, giving that it is your property and they never asked to switch the electricity provider. Then Send them a letter, ask them to find and register their own provider ASAP, increase the rent for the problems caused, your time, and bill them for legal costs too. Then kick them out.
    Let them enjoy a little bit of the same culture they do not have.
    Imagine if every smart A%$# wanted to misuse our system!

    • chumlee on 04/07/2016 - 20:32

      The bill is in the OP's name. If he stops paying it he will soon get a default on his/her credit file.

      Also I doubt you could just cut power off to your tenant without notifying them

      • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2016 - 20:57
        -2

        Are you the tenant? I didn't say cut it off without notifying them, I said stop paying their bill after seeking advice and asking them to find their own provider. Also, the only credit file would be touched belongs to the tenant. As I said OP can call and negotiate with the provider and pay the debt as soon as the service is disconnected.

        • chumlee on 04/07/2016 - 21:16
          +2

          The account is in OP's name so how does it affect tenants credit file??

      • Ryxxi on 05/07/2016 - 09:08

        well technically it isn't the tenants power, its the OP's so I am pretty sure he can disconnect himself, and ofcourse inform the tenant prior to doing this. I dunno how much time if required but when I get notices from power providers, its with a 1 week notice to cut my power and refer me to collection agencies.

        • chumlee on 05/07/2016 - 18:43
          +1

          OP has written into his rental agreement with tenant that he/she will provide and pay for electricity and tenant is to reimburse. OP has contractual obligations as well as legal obligations under tenancy law to follow. Can't just cut the power off.

        • xr06t on 05/07/2016 - 19:16
          +1

          @chumlee:
          I dont think OP has advised this is the case. As in any rental agreement it just states the tenant is liable for utilities other than water, nothing about specifically paying OP for power.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2016 - 16:49

        I am no expert, but can you just increase the rent like that?

        • Ryxxi on 05/07/2016 - 19:56

          Not if he is on a lease contract.

  • mponderosa on 04/07/2016 - 21:06
    +1

    "I would have thought that whilst this is not the ideal setup for a landlord that there must be thousands of landlords across Australia who do this, right?"

    No, in fact this may be one in thousands - I saw landlord pay the electricity bill for their tenant.

    • MrFrugalSpend on 06/07/2016 - 12:43

      It is very common in commercial properties

    • FOX on 04/07/2016 - 23:30
      +1

      Why are you here at all?

  • imcold on 04/07/2016 - 21:36
    +5

    Looks like the problem might be with your property manager. They should have notified you earlier of non-payments. $2 grand is at least 1 year behind in payments.

    • GOCAT9 on 05/07/2016 - 09:50
      +2

      Agreed….I will be taking this matter up with them when this is sorted and I see how much if any I am out of pocket.

    • spaij on 05/07/2016 - 14:53

      At least it's not a year behind on rent…

    • jellykingdom on 07/07/2016 - 10:48

      Property managers are the worst. Completely worthless individuals. They are all fine when it comes to collecting YOUR money, but when it comes to collecting the TENANT'S money, suddenly they have "no power"

      Feel your pain!

  • fozzie on 04/07/2016 - 23:27
    +1

    For a start your setting is unusual. What tenants are doing is not right, but you have put yourself in this situation . Possibly you are claiming the tax back on the bills? Otherwise there is no explanation as why you have this set up like this.

  • poppit88 on 04/07/2016 - 23:38
    +1

    Why on earth would you have the electricity / gas or phone in your name as a landlord. These things are your tenants responsibility.

    You need to find your lease and read the terms and conditions carefully. I'm sure you'll find it states in the fine print that the tenant is responsible for the water usage, and is responsible for the payment of the utilities. The tenant is not responsible for the council rates, water rates or strata levies.

    Personally, I'd be disconnecting the utilities because of non-payment.

    And, I had something very similar happen a few years back when I was a property manager with a tenant who thought he was super smart because 'we hadn't informed him to have the gas connected for his hot water.' So he tried to sue us and the landlord.

    I told him to stick it and go to the tribunal. They flatly ruled in our favour and pointed out to the tenant he was responsible to pay pay for his gas and electricity as they were deemed utilities.

    I'd be traipsing of to the residential tenancy tribunal. They aren't often on a landlord's side, but neither do they appreciate flippant tenants who waste their time.

    Now I know why I hot footed it it out of the industry!!

    • fortunecookie on 05/07/2016 - 11:52
      +1

      Upvote for suggesting OP to find the lease and read the terms and conditions carefully. The tenancy agreement usually covers most aspects of a landlord/tenant relationship and it is an instrument you should refer to when you come across dodgy landlord/ tenants.

      Another + 1 for taking the bad guys to the Tribunal!!

      • poppit88 on 05/07/2016 - 13:18
        +1

        It used to make me cry - literally.

        It was either dodgy tenants like this guy is describing or landlords who thought it was ok to let their tenants live in hovels worthy of a refugee camp.

        It always struck me as ironic that it was the landlords who kept their properties spick and span who ended up tenants such as the OP is describing. My lovely tenants seemed to be in properties with landlords who often bordered on being deranged.

        And my advice to the OP is to find a Property Manager who has a pair of balls. Remind them they aren't acting for the tenant, they act for the you - you pay their fees.

        • KenOath on 05/07/2016 - 16:34
          -5

          Actually, the Tenant pays the fees! No LL would ever rent a property without charging the Tenant for all fees. Remember the whole idea of renting your pride and joy out is to make an actual profit. The loss side of renting a property is a furphy that is used to hoodwink the taxman……

        • poppit88 on 05/07/2016 - 21:43
          +1

          Sorry to burst your bubble but the tenant doesn't pay the 7% management fee nor the postage nor the cost of sundries to the real estate agent. The landlord pays them which is why he gets the statement every month with his rent minus the management fee etc., etc.,

          The tenant pays the rent. That's it.

        • KenOath on 06/07/2016 - 11:28

          @poppit88:

          Like I said… "A fool and their money are soon parted!"

          I have never rented out a property without covering ALL of my costs. My preference is to make a profit.

          The best part is the taxman helps me to maximise it too LOL!

    • jellykingdom on 07/07/2016 - 10:50

      Hey wait!!!!! That's a good point - why haven't you simply disconnected the power????

      Then if they damage anything out of spite, let's see how easily they can weasel their way out of payment. i dare say that would be a lot harder for them to do

  • nimnomnimy on 05/07/2016 - 00:05

    ask them to change the account into their name and / or cancel it from your name.

    Even IF they are right about your legal position around distribution, it's not a civil matter for him to decide, he wouldn't even be able to sue you because it's for the distributor / government to action.

    He would have no leg to stand on if he isn't paying the power bills, I would withhold the bond and kick them out at the end of tenancy agreement.

    Otherwise, I do agree you shouldn't have the power in your name, if they do take it to tribunal, they may be able to pay a reduced value based on saying they can get a better deal or something - why take the risk?

  • David19 on 05/07/2016 - 06:51
    +1

    I am a tenant. As far as I know, all the electric and gas bills need to be separated and under tenant's name. Otherwise, the tenant has the right to refuse the payment. Water bill can be together.
    My problem is different, I were paying the electricity for the landlord. At the end, Fair Trading has asked the landlord to pay all those money back.

    • Ryxxi on 05/07/2016 - 09:03

      Really ? lucky you lol and what a dumb landlord.

  • Geewhizz on 05/07/2016 - 07:22
    +1

    The flaw in his argument is that you are not selling him electricity. You are simply passing the cost onto him as per his lease.

    Take it to the tribunal immediately, before his lease expires.

    I'm not sure why your agent has allowed the situation to get to this state. If part of your agreement is that they will collect it from the tenant then they should have been doing so.

  • sharkyoz on 05/07/2016 - 08:19
    -1

    call in some bikies

  • Ryxxi on 05/07/2016 - 09:01

    Well probably a bad choice for having the power on your name for points, but I am pretty sure, no landlord pays power bills for the tenant. Did he ever ask you to transfer the power account onto his name? I def wouldn't want my power account under my landlord's name. Aslo its a requirement by the tenant to have all these requests in writing, I hope the agent have the copies of conversations through e mail etc.

    • GOCAT9 on 05/07/2016 - 10:08
      +1

      Hi, as noted above, to my knowledge the tenant has never requested the bill be placed in their name either formally (in writing) or informally (say casual conversation). At the very least, my agent has never passed any request onto me, but I really suspect that the tenant has never asked.

  • Hirolol on 05/07/2016 - 09:22

    wow this is just ASKING for trouble.
    Seriously why would you do that? i cant even understand why people would even CONTEMPLATE doing something like this.
    Don't get me wrong though, i know there are some genuine, moral people out there but there are a lot of scumbag 'scammers' that will get as much as they can for free.

    maybe i have just been burned by tenants too many times… but i wouldnt trust many of them anymore.

  • Pootie Tang on 05/07/2016 - 09:37

    Yeah so I guess you have figured out you should have never had it in your name. Did you have solar PV feed in and that it why its in your name?

    You have 100% the right to disconnect the power and in SA the retailer requires 3 business days (refer SA distribution code) to cut it off (cant be done on a Friday and they require free and clear access to the meter). The tenant can then put the power in his/her name however. You will need to go through tenancies tribunal or keep their bond or what ever to recoup your costs. Don't put any utilities in your name in the future, its like the secondary credit card holder has no liability for the spend.

  • Geryatric on 05/07/2016 - 10:19
    -8

    Unfortunate situation but the tenant is legally correct. You will not be able to recoup any of these cost.

    • SnoozeAndLose on 05/07/2016 - 10:25

      Can you please provide more prove for your statement?

      • GOCAT9 on 05/07/2016 - 10:32
        +4

        Geryatric: The tenant is NOT correct, if you call the Australian Energy Regulator (see my post above), they will tell you that I am DEEMED EXEMPT (their words) from requiring any type of licencing, approval etc. This advice is from the 'horses mouth'!! I am on solid ground.

      • xuqi on 05/07/2016 - 13:43
        +1

        Yes, this sounds like the tenant. :)

  • andyken on 05/07/2016 - 11:08
    +3

    Its look like dodgy tenant vs dodgy landlord, we'll see who win :), please kept us updated

  • GOCAT9 on 05/07/2016 - 11:30
    +7

    I am happy to keep everybody updated. I suspect that it will take some weeks if not months before this gets all resolved so you may need to check back in some weeks time.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2016 - 14:19

      Thanks, We will. Obviously, we are listening to one side of the story but the outcome will be a good lesson.
      Also don't fall for it, you are 100% right there and careful when they move out, seems you are going to be in a lot of trouble as the bond would not cover a portion of the damage you will see! Send your agent with a few weeks notice for a regular inspection and charge them in advance, plus finalise this and get your money before that happens.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2016 - 17:09

      Good luck.

  • UFO on 05/07/2016 - 11:59
    +2

    Yep… dodgy on both sides.

    Tenancy Tribunal will sort it out.
    Just lucky its at the end of the tenancy and you can get rid of them.

    Lodge application to Tribunal today.
    Bond will be withheld due to Tribunal hearing date.

    If the bond doesnt cover costs, cost order will be awarded accordingly.

    But regardless of wording in Lease, if no agreement is made in mediation on hearing date (you'll be presented a room, a mediator, and time to try and work things out), you're going to be out of pocket regardless. If the tenant simply refuses to mediate (does happen), then the Magistrate will decide. Regardless of wording in Lease, this whole situation stinks… and Magistrate will DEFINITELY take it into consideration.

    My guess, half the bill will be borne by you.

    I'm not to sit here and type out my credentials in this industry (I have nothing to prove to anyone), but I can assure you that I have alot of experience in this area and the Tribunal is your best bet to get any money back… but unless the Tenant capitulates completely in mediation, you WILL be up for costs due to your own stupidity. For whatever reason you've left it in your name (and there IS a reason I'm sure, the 'dumb landlord' routine isn't flying with me), you will have learned your lesson and you will move on.

    Oh, and fire your agent. Immediately after the lease is terminated. Shocking.

  • charmainesamuel on 05/07/2016 - 12:55
    +1

    I've read through the whole thread, but apologies if anyone has already raised this.

    GOCAT9, I do not think this has to take some weeks or months to get resolved. Take out all the distracting stuff like FFPs, solar credits, tribunals, utility providers, and look at the contractual arrangement.

    You (A) and the Agent (B) have a contractual arrangement, and it is via this contractual arrangement that you then come to have the arrangement with the tenant (C). There is nothing in law preventing either A and C from contacting each other directly and A can take over any of the tasks that their agent does but they cannot duplicate them (eg. inspections).

    (Taken from http://www.tenantsact.org.au/FAQRetrieve.aspx?ID=36469&Q=)

    A real estate agent is legally required to act in the best interests of the landlord, unless it would be against the law to do so. Although agents are paid their commission from the rent you pay, it is the landlord who hires or fires them, so it is also in an agent’s interests to please the landlord.

    If your rights under the tenancy agreement are breached, the Tribunal can only make compensation orders against the landlord, not the agent, even if the agent was the one at fault. However, agents have to comply with a Code of Conduct in the Agents Regulation, and the Office of Fair Trading can investigate complaints about agent conduct (read Tenancy Factsheet: Making a Complaint Against a Real Estate Agent).

    There are issues of Code of Conduct and Compliance for both the Real Estate Agent and the Electricity retailer.

    Look into your arrangement with the agent. Just because they are an agent acting on your behalf, doesn't necessarily mean that it extends to making financial arrangements with the utility retailer.

    Secondly, check with Fair Trading/Consumer Protection relevant body in SA and the AER about payment plans.

    It is your name on the bill, and yes the agent was to collect money on your behalf, but I do not believe that that extends to them making a payment plan on your behalf without your knowledge. Further, the electricity retailer should not be making payment plan arrangements with anyone other than you. There should have been a conversation where you tell them who may be the secondary name to act on your behalf on the account.

    Then you can fire the agent.

    • GOCAT9 on 06/07/2016 - 10:13
      +2

      Some good advice in here! I will be looking into my relationship with my agent when this is finalised and I know what my losses, if any, are. Thank you for that.

  • JimmyF on 05/07/2016 - 14:39

    "I would have thought that whilst this is not the ideal setup for a landlord that there must be thousands of landlords across Australia who do this, right?"

    Ummm no… Let them get their own power account etc, just like gas, phone, internet etc etc

  • lilkid28 on 05/07/2016 - 15:22
    +1

    Just take him to the tribunal to recover these costs. Cut the power immediately.

  • ge on 05/07/2016 - 16:57
    -1

    bikies.

  • Wantsmoreinfo on 05/07/2016 - 18:14
    +7

    I am a property manager and sales agent in Adelaide (happen to be in the NE Suburbs as well). I suggest you get a new property manager as soon as this is all fixed up.

    Even though you were basically asking for trouble with the set up you have; the property manager should have advised you better. Yes it was stupid but you don't know any better, you're not in this line of work; however WE ARE.

    The difference between a property manager and a great property manager is a great property manager does not just look after a property and do everything you ask without question, but he/she is your adviser. He's not suppose to fix shit up for you when you are in trouble, but advise you so that it will never happen to you.

    How did it get $2000 dollars in arrears anyway? How is that possible unless the property manager neglected it for so long. A person doesn't just use $2000 in electricity in such a short amount of time.

    Please for the love of god make sure you don't stay with him/her.

  • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2016 - 18:16

    It's great to know that you've got advice directly from the power retailer, and it is to your favour.

    You need not argue with your tenant. If he wants to sue, it'll be a quick session in court. You have written proof that there is an intention for you to pass all power supply cost to the tenant. A judge is well educated and will understand that your tenant is trying to play technicalities. Your tenant may even be technically correct, but it's likely he will need to appeal if he wants to pursue the case based purely on technicality (which he may win, but it'll probably cost him more because these cases usually do not end with the court reassigning legal cost).

    You need not argue with your lease agent. Inform him he has a reasonable amount of time to recover the amount in arrears as he has not informed you regarding the arrears in reasonable time. If the agent refuses, bear the losses and fire the agent. Make a complaint against the agent and move on.

    $2,000 to evict a semi-freeloader, fire an incompetent agent, and learning to play the landlord game a little better is actually not a bad price.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 05/07/2016 - 18:17
    +3

    If it is 'watertight' does the rental agreement state they must pay YOU and state your name in the lease?

    I think not.

    The standard tenacy terms mean they must arrange themselves. Not that you, as landlord, can arrange and charge them.

    Your electricity bills are a contract between you and your energy retailer alone.

    I can't think of any 'historic' cough reason you would leave the account in your name unless its due to a solar rebate, tax, home owners grant or some sort of government concession and you are trying to game the system. I'd be very confident its one of these reasons but I realise you'd never admit here as you realise this would pit everyone against you.

    You will not be able to use the bond to cover these electricity bills.

    Seek legal advice or write the money off.

  • Wormetti on 05/07/2016 - 19:01
    +2

    Much better to have all possible bills in the tenants name. Some tenants might even have concession entitlements that they wouldn't be able to get if the bills were in the landlord's name.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2016 - 19:28

      Yes, the conscession issue is a tricky one. I'm hoping that doesn't apply in this situation.

  • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2016 - 19:32

    Does the property manager send you a statement each month of how much they have remitted to your account each month once expenses have been taken out?

    Have you been checking your bank statements each month regarding the rent and the re-imbursement of the electricity cost?

    I guess it's too late this time but if you do something like this arrangement in the future, look carefully at the above two things so that you can see if the right funds aren't paid into the correct place.

    Perhaps the property manager thought you would be checking the statements and would have realised from them that the electriciy funds weren't being paid. Maybe this is why they didn't alert you earlier.

    I hope you are able to resolve this soon.

    • GOCAT9 on 06/07/2016 - 10:21

      Good point. Looking at the amount deposited into my bank account does not give the full picture as it is a lump sum. The monthly account does itemise this and yes it should show it, however often the payments are out of sequence with the monthly bills, or spread across months etc. Implicitly I may have known, but I think it would be reasonable for the agent to inform me explicitly.

  • schwinn on 05/07/2016 - 23:47
    +1

    Could you please PM me the REA, so I can avoid him? Or, if you feel like it, name and shame

  • CLoSeR on 06/07/2016 - 08:06

    What you are doing doesn't sound any different to billing a tenant for water usage; bill usually sent to owner/landlord who pays the bill then invoices tenant for usage.

    This tenant is trying you out, hand him his notice.

    • GOCAT9 on 06/07/2016 - 10:17

      Time for me to go into bat!!

      Oh, ,I forgot to add. I have also taken your collective advice and instigated immediate action with SACAT (tribunal in SA). What I did learn from my agent which was 'dropped in passing' and I don't think he has ever advised me on this directly before is that apparently if I instigate action BEFORE the lease expires then it is a matter for the tribunal (SACAT). However, if I do it AFTER the lease expires then it is a CIVIL matter. That could be important, not sure why yet but I am sure I will find out!!

      I will also be seeking to have their name added to the TICA register as bad tenants.

      • Yola on 06/07/2016 - 10:58

        You should not have to take advice from this community, you are paying a professional. Your agent should have told you to take this action and to disconnect electricity as soon as the tenants got into arrears instead of a payment plan. And you should not find things out in passing, again evidence that the agent is incompetent.

        • mrham on 06/07/2016 - 17:15

          You can't just disconnect someone's power lol.

  • GOCAT9 on 06/07/2016 - 10:12
    +1

    Thank you all for those recent comments. here is an update to my situation and a response to some of your comments:

    zeggie: It does not really matter if the lease does not say the tenant needs to pay me directly or the agent for their electricity consumption. It should not matter. Either method is fine by me. The important point here is that the lease states that the tenant is responsible for paying for all electricity consumed at the lease address.

    Some posts are very cynical of what I have done: I can say again, there is no solar PV system connected to the tenants meter, I am not using the electricity account in my name for any (write-off, deduction etc. etc.) related ATO purposes. There was no intent in doing this other than picking up a few extra FF points, I can't be clearer than that. I deciding to do this I obviously misplaced my trust in tenants to do the 'right thing'. I have learnt a new lesson here.

    Action to date:
    Yesterday, I took your advice and CLOSED my electricity account. What this means is as follows. I no longer have any legal liability for power consumed at the rental property between now and when the lease expires at he beginning on August. The power remains connected to the property. The current retailer writes to the tenant telling them that they must contact them (or any provider) to set up a new electricity account. If they do not do this in some reasonable time (my provider advised up to three billing periods!!) they will start getting disconnection letters so the power will eventually be cut off. Whether they conact another retailer or not, I don't care, because I have no further responsibility for the account. Since they tenants don't want to pay because they think they have a case, they may be going 'hell for leather' in their last month in the house thinking that they will 'get away with it'. This will NOT be the case. Eventually, they will be backbilled for all the power from the date I closed my account.

    On how many people do this, I doubt if I am the only one. As CLoSeR says, the water bill is often in the name of the landlord anyway. By law this needs to be the case in SA.

    • Yola on 06/07/2016 - 11:03

      I have no problem with you wanting points, I too love them, but then you needed to keep a close eye on the reimbursements. And I do not think you are the only one who does this. What about properties where rooms are rented separately or have 2 or more self contained residence but only one metre, the landlord may pay the bill and then apportion is some manner.

    • JimmyF on 06/07/2016 - 13:19
      +2

      In the future, let the tenant arrange their own power when they move in. Its how its 'done' in 99% of the cases for many reasons.

      You have no gain in having the power in your name really other than a few 'points' and at the end of the day, it looks like you're going to be lumped with a $2000 power bill to pay, that the bond won't fully cover.

      So any point bonus you got over the years has just gone out the window! Regardless if the law says you can do this, you do run the risk of getting lumped with a bill. Is that risk worth it for a few points?

      For example a tenant may happily pay the bill until they run up a massive winter bill and then turn around and say oh no thats not correct, I'm not paying it. Its a billing 'error' etc.

      Just let the tenant arrange power connection when they move in, like they do for the phone etc.

      In VIC with the smart meters, once you disconnect the power/close the account like you have, they can remotely turn of the power… hahahaha that would have been funny.

    • solar on 06/07/2016 - 21:08
      +1

      Not being snarky, but I'm legitimately curious as to how they will be "backbilled" for all of the power consumed from the date that you have closed the account. They have no contractual agreement with any power company. How does the power company even have the personal details of who lives there? Can a power company actually send an invoice to somebody who has not entered into a supply contract with them?

    • Pootie Tang on 07/07/2016 - 08:27

      You close the account the power is getting disconnected - no way the retailer just allows free power on the chance the tenant signs up.

      • GOCAT9 on 07/07/2016 - 11:09

        No, that is not true! I suggest you call a retailer and ask. The way it works is as I described. The power does NOT get cut off after an account is closed! Whoever they sign up with, they will eventually get back billed from the provider that I closed the account with. If they don't sign up with anybody, the old provider will eventually go after them. All the tenants contact details will be supplied by the agent etc.

        • Pootie Tang on 07/07/2016 - 11:42

          So then based on what you are saying - he never signs up and he gets free power for however long?

    • jellykingdom on 07/07/2016 - 10:52

      Don't stress the cynical part - just because Ozbargainers like a bargain, doesn't mean they are any different to the normal bunch of lunatics and assholes on every forum or Facebook post ever. MOST are good, but you still get the usual suspects

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/07/2016 - 13:34
      +2

      "zeggie: It does not really matter if the lease does not say the tenant needs to pay me directly or the agent for their electricity consumption. It should not matter. Either method is fine by me. The important point here is that the lease states that the tenant is responsible for paying for all electricity consumed at the lease address."

      It does matter in a legal sense.
      What method is fine by you is not legally binding.
      The important point is not that the tenant is responsible.

      The only relationship here is between you, the consumer, and your energy retailer.
      The tenant has no involvement with this specific contract.

      If you attempt to claim from the bond, or start legal proceedings, you may suffer. Seek legal advice please.

      Some light reading for you.
      National Electricity (South Australia) Act 1996
      Energy Retail Code 2012

      This is not legal advice

  • [Deactivated] on 06/07/2016 - 12:02

    An unusual problem with your tenant would be they are both your lover and a blood relative !
    But in your case, that's why the tribunal exists, seek their help.

  • Fizzydrink on 06/07/2016 - 16:42

    if you apparently supply the power, then maybe stop supplying the power ;-)

  • mrluke on 07/07/2016 - 00:35
    +1

    My landlord is dicking me on a bill in my name (water bill) but I reported a leaking shower and it took 3 months for a plumber to come so the water bill was ginormous so I said its her responsibility. She agreed but she keeps saying she will pay it but now that's 2 months late and I am getting cut off letters and debt collector letters because this troll says she will pay it but won't damn well pay it……

    • jwh on 07/07/2016 - 06:14

      Glad I am not the only one. Had a similar problem with leaking taps, except it took 9 months to send a plumber out for what would have been a 10 minute job. Was noted on the incoming condition report and I requested it be fixed via email probably 5 times over those 9 months.

      They debited us for the first bill, but the water is in the landlords name so we refused to pay any further water bills for the period it wasn't fixed, and we are leaving at the end of the tenancy.

      This is on top of not fixing a faulty gas stove top, not providing all keys to windows and doors, not fixing blocked drainage causing flooding of the garage, 5 months to fix a broken outside stairs light, owner occupier neighbour said the landlord took months to agree to fix a broken fence before we moved in, and a couple of other things.

      For every difficult tenant there is probably a dodgy landlord and property manager to counter it. We did contact a tenants advice line who advised us we could argue for a rent reduction, but we decided to just start looking elsewhere.

      • mrluke on 07/07/2016 - 07:27

        The shower is leaking just as badly as before already. He just put in a new O ring. It was so painful to get them out the first time and I am still dealing with it that I now just shut off the water outside unless I'm about to use it.

    • [Deactivated] on 07/07/2016 - 21:57

      A leaking shower would fall under urgent repairs:

      If you can’t reach the landlord or agent or they don’t respond immediately, you can make your own arrangements to have the repairs done—up to the cost of $1800 (including GST). To get the money back, send a Notice to Landlord, describing the repairs that were done and how much they cost, and attach a copy of the repair receipt or invoice. The landlord must repay you within 14 days of receiving the notice

      Claiming compensation

      Tenants help line: (03) 9416 2577 You might be put on hold for a while though . They've had their funding drastically reduced and don't have half the staff they used to have.

      Edit: Maybe just read up on your rights and then send a friendly email to your REA, letting them know that you will get (i) a plumber to fix the leaks and send them the invoice and (ii) apply for compensation for your water bill, if those problems are not taken care of within a certain deadline ( 3 days? a week?). Some landlords only respond to threats deadlines.

  • GOCAT9 on 18/07/2016 - 15:20
    +1

    CONCLUSION:
    I appeared before the tribunal last Friday after the tenant took action against me. He based his case of the fact that I was 'selling and distributing' electricity illegally and that he was not given the choice of providers.

    RESULT - SUCCESS!!!!: In summary, the tenant was alerted to the terms and conditions of the lease agreement which he signed and agreed to and also could not provide any proof that he ever requested the landlord to change electricity providers. He also found out that I have an AUTOMATIC DEEMED EXEMPTION to on-sell and distribute electricity to him. His case was dismissed and he was ordered to pay all outstanding electricity bills. His tenancy was also terminated by the landlord as of early August2016. Bye bye tenant!!

    • ykwon10 on 18/07/2016 - 15:23

      Congrats! Good outcome!

      Just make sure agent to perform final inspection thoroughly…people can be very vengeful at times..

    • [Deactivated] on 19/07/2016 - 08:41

      Well done, good luck with the final details.
      Thank you also for posting up the result. So many posters ask for help and advice then don't have the good manners to tell us the outcome.

    • [Deactivated] on 19/07/2016 - 10:01

      Thanks for letting us know what happened.

      I hope the tenant actually pays the money owing to you. If they were holding the funds back on principle then hopefully the hearing resolved those issues and they will pay. If they were holding back on hardship issues hoping to find a way to get out of paying then you might still be in with a struggle.

    • Sick of This on 22/07/2016 - 10:41

      Thanks for coming back and letting us know the outcome :-)

  • Pumpkin_rrr on 22/07/2016 - 07:59

    What a story!
    My first reaction is why have you come to this forum? What advice did your Agent give you? Or are they 'waiting for your instruction?'

    Going forward I'd say be very diligent with Exit Report. Follow the Exit/cleaning procedure thoroughly. If possible, have a pre-exit discussion.

    Just wondering how you will write their Tenant Reference if asked?
    With TICA I suppose you cant list them if they pay after this?
    Also curious to know if they pay the power from the day you disconnect to the day they leave. ….

    • GOCAT9 on 26/07/2016 - 10:33
      +2

      Thanks to all for those kind words of support.

      At the tribunal hearing, the tenant did indicate that he will pay! A payment plan of $100 per week was agreed. Yes, we will have to see how that works out, but I do have a good feeling that he will do the right thing. He has now moved into a new property. He runs his own accountancy business and we know where his office and other contact details are located etc.

      Regarding TICA, apparently agents cannot just add people to TICA anymore at their discretion. You have to (at least in SA) apply to the tribunal to get approval first!

      I am now talking to my agent and plan to get stricter guidelines included in our agreement concerning advising me within so many days if the tenant does not pay bills, seeking my approval to put them on a payment plan, mandatory reporting of late payments etc. I will see how they react to that. I think that there should be minimal service standards built in to the agreement etc.

      Thanking you all again. I am very happy with the outcome and yes, the property will be thoroughly inspected for all issues. I have already had an excellent number of new tenants interested.

      best regards GOCAT9.

      • Pumpkin_rrr on 26/07/2016 - 15:41
        +2

        Noted that you "talking to my agent and plan to get stricter guidelines included in our agreement ".

        Well, IMHO, if you need to manage your Manager, you might as well do it yourself. Those are standard industry practice and any good PM should communicate with you without being specifically told to.

        • GOCAT9 on 27/07/2016 - 10:11

          Pumpkin: Fair Point - noted!!

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join